v4.33pre2 - January 24 2013

[airon]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Contents->Clear editor when changing active media item

Or just use Shift-click on the item in the track list.

Looks like you'll be helping Nicholas with writing the manual for this one.

[keys]

I DO like the new multi-midi editing features...BUT it really shows up the lack of sequential auto-naming for recorded midi items.

There seems to be no way to get a sequential item or take name for midi objects when recording - like in audio recording... Trackname[-xx] ?

A lot of my my items and takes end up with the same name e.g. "16-Moog-recorded MIDI" because they were recorded on the same track and it is too unwieldy to rename each one. This also means you have to use both the track and item selectors to see which you are editing.

What we need is at least the same behaviour as we have for audio items dont we? or have I missed something?

[EvilDragon]

Indeed, incremental autonaming would help much more than current "untitled" scheme and, worse, just bar.beat for the name (that ONLY shows in the track list).

Track 1 - Item 1, Item 2, Item 3...
Track 2 - Item 1, Item 2, Item 3...


Can't be that hard to make it happen.

[Subz]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Right. So if you select just the track, ALL the items on that track should be immediately selected/editable. That's basically what's needed here to make something akin to "track-based" workflow.

YES!

if they all look & act editable then track based work-flow is there! AFAIC

Subz

[XITE-1/4LIVE]

Originally Posted by schwa

The main advantages are to be able to control editability from the arrange view, persistence (media items are either selected or not, it doesn't depend on whether the item appears in a midi editor or multiple editors), minimizing state, and simplicity.

This is exactly what piques my interest. The less reliant I am on a seperate MIDI Editor the better.
And thanks for the undocked M.Editor fix.
I actually was trying to use my Docker at the top of the main window, underneath the Transport, and I could work on sections of a track, 8 bars at a time there w/o opening the typical MIDI Editor in A seperate window and closing it all of the time.

MIDI Lovin' is much appreciated.

[krahosk]

Originally Posted by mikeroephonics

I'd rather have the Track List collapsed to display only Tracks.
I wish to hide Items on all Tracks because...

For me,
1 TCP =
1 MIDI Media Item =
1 musical instrument (playing technique/articulation)

This allows me to draw new MIDI Events anywhere, on any Track,
because I already have the blank Media Item drawn into my
orchestral template.

Exactly. I always like to compare and see how it makes sense and holds true in other situations. Like: when I go through playing a guitar piece, I don't want to activate individual frets to be able to play there.

1 track
many items
let's stick together and feel alright

[Subz]

automatically extending midi clips is still quite buggy,

[IMG]http://img692.**************/img692/8012/bug2.gif[/IMG]

Subz

[Evan]

Do you think we could have indications on what items are pooled? I am talking about all three panels (piano roll, track selector, item selector).

I think users need be very aware of when editing something that may have consequences beyond their current focus.

[EvilDragon]

Good point there, Evan.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Right. So if you select just the track, ALL the items on that track should be immediately selected/editable. That's basically what's needed here to make something akin to "track-based" workflow.

+1, but I would still like to see track based appear as an option some time....

I shouldn't really post here, as i have decided to stay 2 versions behind the pre-release du jour at all times in the interest of actually getting some work done rather than playing about!

P.S. Thanks again for all the effort, devs.

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Contents->Clear editor when changing active media item


Or just use Shift-click on the item in the track list.

Doesn't work here
If i shift click it just always has the last selected faint underneath
If i tick the contents option you mention then shift clicking doesn't have one faint (I still have to shift clikc to select both and then go to the little eye to make the second visible)
It is either or here, needs a shortcut to have both ways available


Maybe the ME editing behaviour settings have to be set up in a particular way, if it works where you are, what are you ME editing behaviour prefs ?

EDIT*
You know what, nevermind, just tried every setting there is and there is no way to work how i want to work, oh well, seems like a bit of bad way to work to me, but i am not an expert like you guys

If the contents option is ticked this should be the solution

Click selects item (As now)
Ctrl + Click selects multiple items (As now)
Shift + Click selects items between first and second click (As now)
Ctrl + Alt + Click select multiple items but also make selected items visible in editor (New option and would be perfect)

I suspect this may be covered if the ME track selector gets into the mouse modifiers and we can just add macros, that would be perfect for me personally, and all i would ever need for multi MIDI editing (Like i say i am no expert like you guys)

[jnif]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

Doesn't work here
If i shift click it just always has the last selected faint underneath
If i tick the contents option you mention then shift clicking doesn't have one faint (I still have to shift clikc to select both and then go to the little eye to make the second visible)
It is either or here, needs a shortcut to have both ways available


Maybe the ME editing behaviour settings have to be set up in a particular way, if it works where you are, what are you ME editing behaviour prefs ?

Maybe the problem is that you have been clicking item names. You should click (or shift-click) the arrow icons in the "active" column. Then it should work just the way you want.

jnif

[KevinW]

This is looking good.

I'll add my +1 to previously stated:
1. ability to dock and/or move the track selector to the left side of the piano roll
2. dock the filter events dialog

Plus, is there any reason that the track list has to display the parent tracks of a track that has a midi item in it? My workflow for multi-out vsti's is to have two tracks for each channel - the parent track is where the audio gets routed, and the child is where the midi item lives. Currently, the track list shows the empty parent track as well as the non-empty child track. I have no use for the parent track in the track list.
The track selector lane shows only the tracks with midi items, without the parent tracks. This is my hope for the track list as well.

Last, it seems this little bug http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3690
has been fixed in the latest pre. Thanks!

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by Evan

Do you think we could have indications on what items are pooled? I am talking about all three panels (piano roll, track selector, item selector).

I think users need be very aware of when editing something that may have consequences beyond their current focus.

That would be handy. That's gotten me quite a few times

[Win Conway]

When i try to render in this version, i cant name the file, always stays untitled ?
F**k me is the render slow in this version too
Same file in previous pre was rendering at 5x , this pre rendering at 1x
Had to roll back to previous, render is useless on this version for me personally

i7, 16gig RAM, Win8 x64 pro
Reaper x64

EDIT*
The render issue is only with avi files uncompressed (Previous pre is fine with same file)

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by jnif

Maybe the problem is that you have been clicking item names. You should click (or shift-click) the arrow icons in the "active" column. Then it should work just the way you want.

jnif

Unfortunately no, ctrl or shift clicking the arrows just changes visibilty, not selection

[mikeroephonics]

How about a button on the MIDI Editor Track List for adjusting visibility options?

Same idea as the Mixer Control Panel button shown below, but for the MIDI Editor Track List.


With these options (this is all I can think of at the moment):
I've put an "X" inside options I think should be checked by default.)

[x] List Folder Tracks
[x] List normal top level Tracks (Enable this one to allow "Track Mode")
[x] List Items

[] Only list Items if they are visible in the MIDI Editor
[] Only list Items if they contain MIDI Events

[] Only show MIDI Events for selected Tracks (hide others)
[] Only show MIDI Events for selected Items (hide others)

[] Scroll Track List view when Tracks activated in TCP/MCP

[] Group Folder Tracks to the top
[] Group Tracks to the top
[] Group Items to the top

[] Show multiple columns when size permits
[] Show maximum columns even when Folders/Tracks/Items would fit in less rows

[] Selecting a Folder Track in the Track List selects it in the Track Control Panel/Mixer Control Panel
(Note: If the Folder TCP/MCP is set to "Auto Record-Arm When Selected", selecting the Folder Track in the Track List will also Auto Record-Arm the Folder TCP/MCP.)

[x] Selecting a Track in the Track List selects it in the Track Control Panel/Mixer Control Panel
(Note: If the TCP/MCP is set to "Auto Record-Arm When Selected", selecting the Track in the Track List will also Auto Record-Arm the TCP/MCP.)

[] Selecting an Item in the Track List selects it in the Arrange View

[] Show Track number
[x] Show [color picker]
[x] Show [eye]
[x] Show [rec-arm]
[x] Show [mute]
[x] Show [solo]
[x] Show [pencil] (not [yet] implemented)
[x] Show [padlock] (not [yet] implemented)

[] Dock Track List to left side of MIDI Editor
[x] Dock Track List to right side of MIDI Editor

[] Close

What did I forget?

[jnif]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

Unfortunately no, ctrl or shift clicking the arrows just changes visibilty, not selection

Don't worry about the selection in the track list. It is a known issue, already reported (i.e. you can have an active item that is not selected but still editable). It is only a visual issue, although quite confusing, in track list and in media item lane. Otherwise it should work just as you want. Just look at the piano roll, it should be OK. The active item is changed and all other item items are hidden. Just like you wanted.

jnif

[Tod]

Originally Posted by mikeroephonics

How about a button on the MIDI Editor Track List for adjusting visibility options?

Yes, some way of selecting the elements we want. Also and especially:

Show only selected tracks (hide others).

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by jnif

Don't worry about the selection in the track list. It is a known issue, already reported (i.e. you can have an active item that is not selected but still editable). It is only a visual issue, although quite confusing, in track list and in media item lane. Otherwise it should work just as you want. Just look at the piano roll, it should be OK. The active item is changed and all other item items are hidden. Just like you wanted.

jnif

I can't speak for gpunk_w, but it doesn't work how I would expect/desire it to work. Here, I can only ever have one active item. Yes, I can select events in other items using the mouse, and I can drag them to move, change velocity, etc. But I can't use actions on those selected items - the actions only affect the elements selected in the active item.
It's also the case, at least here, that not all the information about the notes are displayed in the inactive items - there are not velocity handles, no note names, no velocity values. Ideally for me, all of that information would be displayable for whichever items I choose.

If all this is already possible, I'd love to hear what I've missed.

I'm not complaining - this latest pre is a big improvement for my workflow.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by KevinW

It's also the case, at least here, that not all the information about the notes are displayed in the inactive items - there are not velocity handles, no note names, no velocity values. Ideally for me, all of that information would be displayable for whichever items I choose.

You're not alone with this,also mentioned it here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=132

edit:
And the point about actions being able to work on multiple items is also a good one I think.

[jnif]

Originally Posted by KevinW

I can't speak for gpunk_w, but it doesn't work how I would expect/desire it to work. Here, I can only ever have one active item. Yes, I can select events in other items using the mouse, and I can drag them to move, change velocity, etc. But I can't use actions on those selected items - the actions only affect the elements selected in the active item.
It's also the case, at least here, that not all the information about the notes are displayed in the inactive items - there are not velocity handles, no note names, no velocity values. Ideally for me, all of that information would be displayable for whichever items I choose.

If all this is already possible, I'd love to hear what I've missed.

I'm not complaining - this latest pre is a big improvement for my workflow.

Originally Posted by nofish

You're not alone with this,also mentioned it here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=132

edit:
And the point about actions being able to work on multiple items is also a good one I think.

You have to understand the difference between "the active item" and "editable items". There is only one single active item. And that is OK. It is intentionally designed to be like that. New notes are added only to the active item even when multiple items are editable at the same time.

And there are lots of missing actions and missing visual information and missing controls in the multiple editable items because this is just an early pre release. Those features will be added in the later releases. Like schwa said on previous page

Originally Posted by schwa

Basically there are about a million behaviors that need to be fixed up to work for multiple selected MIDI media items, we're just going to chip away one at a time.

jnif

[swiiscompos]

I don't know if it's a bug on OSX 64 or something wrong with my settings but I don't see the "arm" "solo" and "mute" buttons in the track list. They exist, I can click where they should be and it works, but they are invisible...


Maybe someone has already said that but when I write a new name in the track list and click somewhere else it doesn't save the change (which imho would be the expected behavior), it saves the new name only if I press enter...

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by jnif

Don't worry about the selection in the track list. It is a known issue, already reported (i.e. you can have an active item that is not selected but still editable). It is only a visual issue, although quite confusing, in track list and in media item lane. Otherwise it should work just as you want. Just look at the piano roll, it should be OK. The active item is changed and all other item items are hidden. Just like you wanted.

jnif

No they arent, they are still in view faintly and if selected in teh track selector are editable, not what i wanted

[Janne83]

Originally Posted by swiiscompos

I don't know if it's a bug on OSX 64 or something wrong with my settings but I don't see the "arm" "solo" and "mute" buttons in the track list. They exist, I can click where they should be and it works, but they are invisible...


Maybe someone has already said that but when I write a new name in the track list and click somewhere else it doesn't save the change (which imho would be the expected behavior), it saves the new name only if I press enter...

The new images are missing from your theme. This is the list that WT posted(they are present in the default theme since 4.33pre1):
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=28

J

[jnif]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

No they arent, they are still in view faintly and if selected in teh track selector are editable, not what i wanted

Is this what you wanted?


jnif

[swiiscompos]

Originally Posted by Janne83

The new images are missing from your theme. This is the list that WT posted(they are present in the default theme since 4.33pre1):
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=28

J

Thank you!

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by jnif

Is this what you wanted?
[image removed]

jnif

No it isnt
that is the expected beahviour
What i want is a way to multi select MIDI files aswell as this

At the moment you need to not only select the item, but then hit the eyeball to make it viewable/editable (So for 3 items, the first one is already selected, then you have to click twice to select the others, then click twice more on the eyeballs)
That is two more clicks than it should be (Imagine if it where an entire drumkit in individual items, something a lot of people do, including me) that could be an extra 20+ clicks

[hopi]

Originally Posted by jnif

Is this what you wanted?


jnif

jnif how are you getting that to the right of the grid... mine show up in below the cc lanes which is kind of clunky to me.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by mikeroephonics

How about a button on the MIDI Editor Track List for adjusting visibility options?

Same idea as the Mixer Control Panel button shown below, but for the MIDI Editor Track List.


With these options (this is all I can think of at the moment):
I've put an "X" inside options I think should be checked by default.)

[x] List Folder Tracks
[x] List normal top level Tracks (Enable this one to allow "Track Mode")
[x] List Items

[] Only list Items if they are visible in the MIDI Editor
[] Only list Items if they contain MIDI Events

[] Only show MIDI Events for selected Tracks (hide others)
[] Only show MIDI Events for selected Items (hide others)

[] Scroll Track List view when Tracks activated in TCP/MCP

[] Group Folder Tracks to the top
[] Group Tracks to the top
[] Group Items to the top

[] Show multiple columns when size permits
[] Show maximum columns even when Folders/Tracks/Items would fit in less rows

[] Selecting a Folder Track in the Track List selects it in the Track Control Panel/Mixer Control Panel
(Note: If the Folder TCP/MCP is set to "Auto Record-Arm When Selected", selecting the Folder Track in the Track List will also Auto Record-Arm the Folder TCP/MCP.)

[x] Selecting a Track in the Track List selects it in the Track Control Panel/Mixer Control Panel
(Note: If the TCP/MCP is set to "Auto Record-Arm When Selected", selecting the Track in the Track List will also Auto Record-Arm the TCP/MCP.)

[] Selecting an Item in the Track List selects it in the Arrange View

[] Show Track number
[x] Show [color picker]
[x] Show [eye]
[x] Show [rec-arm]
[x] Show [mute]
[x] Show [solo]
[x] Show [pencil] (not [yet] implemented)
[x] Show [padlock] (not [yet] implemented)

[] Dock Track List to left side of MIDI Editor
[x] Dock Track List to right side of MIDI Editor

[] Close

What did I forget?

Yes, this would be awesome. Devs, please make this happen

[harmonicaman]

Awesome midi features !

Is there or will be a way to hide all muted items by default in track selector/media items selector (without click every time the little eye) ?
I fully work in an item based workflow. I often record a lot of midi items in the same time selection (every tracks are crowded of this) muted , that I use later or not.
My midi editor background is painted of a big grey bar of muted notes (on an other note you should do something about notes coloring, without strokes, it's not easy to see).

And with all this piled muted items, the actual midi selector view for one track take half my screen in height. And with 40 tracks, it take half the afternoon to scroll down.

A way to pile/make visible in the media items selector only the tracks in the time selection would be great.

[jnif]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

No it isnt
that is the expected beahviour
What i want is a way to multi select MIDI files aswell as this

At the moment you need to not only select the item, but then hit the eyeball to make it viewable/editable (So for 3 items, the first one is already selected, then you have to click twice to select the others, then click twice more on the eyeballs)
That is two more clicks than it should be (Imagine if it where an entire drumkit in individual items, something a lot of people do, including me) that could be an extra 20+ clicks

Looks like you are talking about this issue

Originally Posted by jnif

You can have a selected item that is invisible (thus uneditable even though it is selected). Is this by design? Why?

That is a big problem, I agree.
The items marked to be editable should always be visible. There is no point in having invisible editable items.

Originally Posted by hopi

jnif how are you getting that to the right of the grid... mine show up in below the cc lanes which is kind of clunky to me.

You can enable "Track list"="Track selector" in Contents menu.
The thing you are using below cc lanes is called "Media item selector" or "Media item lane". Also that one can be enabled/disabled in Contents menu.
There are also MIDI toolbar buttons for those in the default toolbar. If you have a custom toolbar, you have to edit it to add those new buttons.

jnif

[Reno.thestraws]

and what about an option to hide/show mute and solo buttons ON PIANO ROLL NOTE ROWS?

[musicbynumbers]

If I edit a note(s) midi channel using the pop up window it sometimes COPIES the notes instead of just MOVING them. So I end up with the same notes but on two separate channels instead of the intended one.

I think what causes this is whether you have the visible channel drop down at bottom of the screen set to show all channels or just one.

It works normally in show all channels mode but copies the notes when showing just one channel there.

Any able to reproduce?

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

and what about an option to hide/show mute and solo buttons ON PIANO ROLL NOTE ROWS?

I would hate that, honestly.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

If I edit a note(s) midi channel using the pop up window it sometimes COPIES the notes instead of just MOVING them. So I end up with the same notes but on two separate channels instead of the intended one.

I think what causes this is whether you have the visible channel drop down at bottom of the screen set to show all channels or just one.

It works normally in show all channels mode but copies the notes when showing just one channel there.

Any able to reproduce?

Can't reproduce.

The only thing that happens is that the notes are NOT hidden when you change the channel via note properties (which they should be, since they're not on THAT channel anymore). As soon as you change the visible channel, they're not there anymore. So that's confusing a bit.

Example: set "Channel" to 1, enter some notes. Select them, note properties, set channel to 5 and press Apply or OK. The notes are still displayed. Now go to channel 2 and back to channel 1, the notes won't be there anymore. But if you go to channel 5, they're there.


This needs to be remedied.

[Reno.thestraws]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

I would hate that, honestly.

As an option... so if you hate, you don't use it

It could be very HANDY for complex drum editing and Checking expression (or what you want) on particular notes played by 2 or more instruments

I know that you can do it in traditionnal editing

but if you want to solo the C3 played by 3 differents instruments on particular time, you have to walk through each instrument EDITOR to mute all other notes (even with macro it's pain in the ass)

and, with macro, if you had mute notes before soloing, you loose it when unsoloing

[miche]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

and what about an option to hide/show mute and solo buttons ON PIANO ROLL NOTE ROWS?

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

I would hate that, honestly.

Haha, the dragon flames strike again!

I'd personally love such an option, and I've been begging about it for quite some time. But I'd rather have it a bit better organized than on this screenshot: all buttons to the far left, aligned, and with sweepable option. And potentially a show/hide button for those who could not stand it

There are quite some uses for such an option and I have already felt the need for it.

[XITE-1/4LIVE]

Sorry for being so green, but how could one get that double row of tollbat icons in the MIDI Editor....?
I have double rows in the Arrange View window but really would like using the MIDI Editor as one big MIDI Track where I can show only a single MIDI Channel at a time while editing, and using the "show only MIDI Ch. 1-16 is a feature I could really use. I need more icons showing to make the painful experience of MIDI Editor less painful..

Thanks

[Lawrence]

Good to see midi love back from hiatus.

Midi editing & production workflow was always the thing that kept me from giving Reaper any real chance at being my goto app and I always hoped that would change. It's changing, but not in a direction I personally like, mmv on that as usual, I'm sure for many others it will be great so I'm not implying my opinion is the right one.

Not wanting it to be like Cubase or PT or any other sequencer bit for bit but some of the design choices here I just can't get a feel for. For example, the tracklist being on the right just feels wrong to me because I tend to think "left to right" and work the same way. The navigator thing is something that I'd never personally use, for me it just takes up way too much real estate.

Anyway, I was one of the people banging the midi drums and the above is generally why my input on this new design would probably not be all useful since I'm not a fan of this particular direction (design wise, not lower level functionality wise).

But still, good stuff for the many users who will feel differently about all that and I know there will be many.