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12-01-2010, 11:31 AM
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#1
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,821
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>> v4: Track stereo width, improved panning modes
As per Alpha61b:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Specifically, there will be four pan modes: - 3.x classic balance (deprecated -- only for project compatibility, really)
- Stereo balance / mono pan -- this is similar to classic balance, except it is equal power on a mono signal, and on stereo it uses equal power gain on each channel, but does not intermix channels at all. If the width control is used it is applied prior to pan.
- Stereo pan -- this should be similar to astrobuf's mixpan. If the width control is used it is applied prior to pan.
- Dual pan -- this converts the width UI into a "pan-right" control, and the normal pan control becomes "pan-left". Each side is panned from a mono signal to the stereo field, using a similar algorithm to the previous two modes, except two independent instances. The important thing here is that when switching to/from this mode, you will likely get vast vast vast differences in how things sound.
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Last edited by Mercado_Negro; 04-08-2011 at 08:26 PM.
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12-01-2010, 12:24 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Google Maps
Posts: 211
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So is stereo panning for the left and right channels equal or can each side be individually panned? For example, the left channel at 45% left and the right channel at 75% right. I see the single pan control and single width control but no individual L/R pan controls with stereo pan selected. I know this can be done by exploding the stereo file into two separate files and panning as needed (with separate pan envelopes or on separate tracks) but dual panners on one track is what I think of when talking about dual panning. Curious???
Also, selecting/deselecting "show pan controls at top" doesn't move the pan controls from the top to the bottom for me. Anyone else???
Last edited by Airspeed; 12-01-2010 at 01:05 PM.
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12-01-2010, 12:51 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: a basement nearby
Posts: 541
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I can't seem to change the balance to a stereo width control (stereo track), i get no change at all, whatever i'm trying to set... XPx86
...And it would be comforting to close the dialog with an enter instead of the big X
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12-01-2010, 12:52 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fairhaven, MA
Posts: 205
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Same questions here. Love the idea. Can't figure out if I understood it wrong though. Is it nestled in a menu somewhere?
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12-01-2010, 01:05 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Posts: 489
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Changing pan in the TCP makes the corresponding changes in the mixer. The opposite is not true. Moving the pan handles in the mixer does not move the corresponding pan handles in the TCP.
Actually, it appears (from the text values) that pan is changing, but graphically, the pan handle is not moving in the TCP.
Same applies for double-clicking to centre it.
Happening for anyone else?
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12-01-2010, 01:11 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: a basement nearby
Posts: 541
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Hmm ok, there IS a width control - in the i/o window - but it seem to be there independent of how the pan/bal-prefs are set?
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12-01-2010, 01:19 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saarlänner
Posts: 1,141
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Pan controls are always shown at top.
Doesn't matter if 'Show pan controls at top' is ticked or not.
Expected: Pan controls shown at bottom if 'Show pan controls at top' is unticked.
(v4.0alpha1, W32, Vista home premium)
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12-01-2010, 02:13 PM
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#8
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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The pan faders always being at the top of the MCP is specific to the v4 theme, and will be corrected (by adding some WALTER logic) at some point (it does still work in other themes).
Regarding the pan modes, if you enable the width controls, and set a track to "stereo pan" mode, then you effectively have dual mono pan, where:
The left is panned by Pan - Width.
The right is panned by Pan + Width.
If you wish to do arbitrary stereo pans, you'd set the pan to the midpoint of the two, and the width to (half) the distance between them.
In alpha2 there will be slightly more descriptive names for the pan modes.
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12-01-2010, 02:29 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Google Maps
Posts: 211
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Justin, thanks for the reply... it makes a little more sense now but why not just two separate controls for left and right stereo pan? Visually it would be easier to see something like L=35% R=95% (on separate pan sliders or knobs) for example. Even an option to either have it like you mentioned or separated (pan and width) controls would be nice. Thanks!
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12-01-2010, 03:16 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: portland, or
Posts: 208
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^^^ ditto
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nikki
Top FR's: Real panner ala Cubendo ; Mono track capability! ; Track Output = Software, not just Hardware |W7x64 |i7 920|Gigabyte UD5|12G ram|MSI GTX275|TX750PSU|MR816X|
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12-01-2010, 03:39 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,002
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ditto!!! too!!!
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I want to live PEACEFULLY PLEASE WORLD "LEADERS" GET THIS DONE/LET IT BE FOR GOOD AND MAKE HISTORYYYYYYY! Thanks.
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12-01-2010, 03:46 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Brazil, Porto Alegre
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airspeed
Visually it would be easier to see something like L=35% R=95% (on separate pan sliders or knobs) for example. Even an option to either have it like you mentioned or separated (pan and width) controls would be nice. Thanks!
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Here's what i've been hoping for V4 since the old days of FR requests regarding different Stereo Pan modes:
[IMG]http://img713.**************/img713/8529/pandream.png[/IMG]
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12-01-2010, 03:54 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Google Maps
Posts: 211
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Lots of dittos!!!
Renan, awesome mockup! Fingers crossed! : )
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12-01-2010, 04:01 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: traîne mes guêtres en Québec...
Posts: 5,390
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Certainly more intuitive; just grab the knob and turn as opposed to: come to the forum, search for Justin post, read it, let it sink in for a minute or two, then go back to the project and...where was I?
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12-01-2010, 04:50 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renan L.B
[IMG]http://img695.**************/img695/8358/capture2yi.png[/IMG] <-- resized it
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Yes, a lot easier to use/understand.
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12-01-2010, 06:19 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: portland, or
Posts: 208
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^^^(see pic in post above)
Does not immediately communicate the left/right width and placement within the available field.
Split horizontal faders with a linking capability to enable placement of desired width within field... I believe there is a nice mockup of many feature "wants" that had this... Brice maybe? Evil Dragon?
Always found it amusing that an app without single channel width would default to, and be limited to, a panning system that is best used with such; with multi-channel this "panning" becomes "balance."
__________________
nikki
Top FR's: Real panner ala Cubendo ; Mono track capability! ; Track Output = Software, not just Hardware |W7x64 |i7 920|Gigabyte UD5|12G ram|MSI GTX275|TX750PSU|MR816X|
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12-01-2010, 06:43 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,153
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I have to admit I can't wrap my dyslexia around how the new pan is set up!
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12-01-2010, 06:43 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 259
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12-01-2010, 07:25 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
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This is an old FR, but I guess it's relevant here. Could we have the option of typing-in the pan value by right clicking on the pan slider, just as we do it for volume on the volume fader?
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12-01-2010, 07:37 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Yeah, I've missed the way cubase handles this....and no I'm NOT going back to cubase lol
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12-01-2010, 08:02 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez
Could we have the option of typing-in the pan value by right clicking on the pan slider, just as we do it for volume on the volume fader?
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Yeah, since the panning features are getting an overhaul, this would seem to be an obvious addition. Gets my vote, for sure.
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12-02-2010, 02:27 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 78
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just insert a ReaSurround!!!
and you have everything what you need!
with excellent visual, easy to understand - great for replace a stereo tool
Superb new features !!!
Thx Cockos!
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12-02-2010, 02:31 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: traîne mes guêtres en Québec...
Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janoosh
just insert a ReaSurround!!!
and you have everything what you need!
with excellent visual, easy to understand - great for replace a stereo tool
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That's like killing a fly with an AK-47... there's already chanmix for this sort of things, but as I understand, most who want stereo panning want it native, not as a plug.
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12-02-2010, 02:58 AM
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#26
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom, T. Wells
Posts: 2,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernstraw
Yes, a lot easier to use/understand.
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Logical it is I would say.
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12-02-2010, 03:12 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Middle of nowhere (where the cheese comes from)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonSpatola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strunkdts
me too...
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Red line indicates the panning (always in the middle of the two blue lines), blue the width, moving the blue width indicators will only move the panning if you widen so much that you hit left or right boundaries (Or use a modifier key to keep the other channel where it is). moving the red line will only affect the width if the blue lines hit left or right boundaries, in which case the width will diminish accordingly....
Thanks Jason & Strunkdts
Last edited by vocalid; 12-02-2010 at 09:15 AM.
Reason: Edit, put in the panning app in question
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12-02-2010, 04:44 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 224
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I personally like the Pan + Width control and the option to choose the kind of panner you want per track. A good improvement to this scheme would require a change in GUI when stereo pan selected - it should read L and R instead of Pan and Width - that would make this scheme perfect.
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12-02-2010, 04:48 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,221
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another +1 for a added duel pan mode
Subz
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12-02-2010, 07:17 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subz
another +1 for a added duel pan mode
Subz
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And me too, perhaps a built in MS decoder mode too!
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12-02-2010, 07:20 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,221
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but i must repeat!
'Added' option
the current way is super kewl also!
Subz
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12-02-2010, 07:29 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,140
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I think I like the JS dual panner better, it would have been good if they would have just incorporated that way instead. I think I will stick with the dual panner.
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12-02-2010, 07:33 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 11
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I think the width control is a very nice feature indeed. I find these two sliders more convenient than the proposed split over three separate controls (just my opinion), and I'd miss this option if it had to go away again.
Acts as a quick mono button, too.
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12-02-2010, 08:18 AM
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#34
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Too close to Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki-k
^^^(see pic in post above)
Does not immediately communicate the left/right width and placement within the available field.
Split horizontal faders with a linking capability to enable placement of desired width within field...
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Agreed!
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12-02-2010, 11:11 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,462
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I second the idea of setting the pan with a right click.
And why arent we fixing the Pan taper laws as per IID# 1860
Yves
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12-02-2010, 11:35 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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anyone got a real cut and dry, for dummies explanation of how this works?
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12-02-2010, 11:40 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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You mean "how" to set it up? Right click on the track (mixer or TCP) go to the "mixer" section of the layout menu and click on "default and width" and you have width controls.
Not sure if that was the "how" you wanted.
The other "how" is that it funnels the sound to a narrower output width/degree which you can then aim/pan left or right.
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12-02-2010, 12:19 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist
The other "how" is that it funnels the sound to a narrower output width/degree which you can then aim/pan left or right.
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this is the other "how" i need clarification on
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12-02-2010, 12:36 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
this is the other "how" i need clarification on
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Me too would gladly welcome a good clarification on how to get this working and in use with a stereo track example
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12-02-2010, 01:11 PM
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#40
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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I admit current implementation doesn't seem too intuitive at first but once you understand how it works you realize it's very powerful and handy. You can place left and right around using the Stereo Pan mode. For example, if you want to pan the left channel at 50% left and right channel at 75% right you just put the pan fader around 12% and width to 60% or so. The thing is in Stereo Pan, left is pan-width and right is pan+width (not easy to see, I know). Let's try to use an example in Stereo Pan (I suck at teaching, please bear with me):
If you pan at 100% L and width is at 100% you'll end up with the left channel hard panned to the left and the right channel in the center. You're panning the whole stereo image to the left here and that's why the right channel moves to the center (width is at 100%). Now, if you start to close the stereo image with the width fader you'll hear the left channel starts moving to the center (remember you're closing it). At width 0% the left channel will be completely centered like the right channel and at -100% the right channel moves to the left and the left channel goes to the center. So how to pan things to specific places? Well, we need to visualize it first and then proceed. If you want left at 50% left just move the pan fader to 50% right and keep width at 100% and so on.
Hope that helps a bit folks.
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