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Old 08-12-2017, 06:28 AM   #1
Bansaw
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Default Can I set up Reaper with a midi keyboard to replicate what Maschine or Push does?

Push and Maschine are quite expensive, but is there a way to get near their functionality with a simple mini midi keyboard and some clver setting up in Reaper?
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:35 PM   #2
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Yes, for the most part, but you will end up paying in time to set up all your samples. I've been using my Maschine Mikro for years and I'd never go back to my clunky free sampler days. I've paid for my time back 100 times over.

What exactly is it you want to be able to do? I haven't tried Push, but I've actually recreated a lot of the Maschine workflow in Reaper using MIDI-Ox (and Maschine in MIDI mode, haha, but most any controller would work). The only things I really need it for now are all the awesome sounds it comes with, how quickly and easily they can be loaded and manipulated, and the Note Repeat function, which is near impossible to recreate with free plugins.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:42 PM   #3
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Do you want Reaper to be an engine for live playing with a keyboard ?

I do this all the time. Works perfectly but creating a complex setup might take some effort.

A key functionality for this can be SWS LiveConfigs (I wrote an extended user guide for same). You might search the forum for "LiveConfigs" and you will find lots of posts handling that issue.

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:44 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
... and the Note Repeat function, which is near impossible to recreate with free plugins.
What exactly does "Note Repeat" do ? If this is a midi functionality ? I suppose that a JSFX script should be able to mimic it.

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Old 08-13-2017, 12:02 AM   #5
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What exactly does "Note Repeat" do ? If this is a midi functionality I suppose that a JSFX script should be able to mimic it.
It's a feature common to drum machines but found rarely elsewhere. You set the beat interval and the notes you hold on your drum pads repeat at that interval, while held, and their volume responds to how hard you press.

I've looked high and low. Yea you can use an arpeggiator to keep repeating a held note at a certain interval, but show me one that can vary the velocity in response to poly aftertouch. Doesn't exist in the free realm afaik, and I'm not sure it does in the commercial realm either.

There are some methods of varying velocity with aftertouch, but multiple notes at once, each with unique variations of velocity? Not so much. I don't doubt that someone could code it if they wanted to, but it seems to me that no one yet has.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:05 AM   #6
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That should be possible with a Kontakt script
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:07 AM   #7
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That should be possible with a Kontakt script
Kontakt is just as expensive.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:11 AM   #8
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Well, except when it's on sale, then it's cheaper than a Maschine Mikro


When using poly AT to change the note repeat rate, how does it influence it? Does it only go in one direction from the current rate? Say you started at 1/8, then when you increase poly AT, it goes up to, like, 1/128, but not down, like to 1/1?
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:22 AM   #9
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When using poly AT to change the note repeat rate, how does it influence it?
No, no, I meant to change the velocity of multiple pads at once with poly AT. It's a nice technique because it combines expressive, human volume variation with perfectly quantized beats, so it's robotic, but not unfeeling.

What you mention is very interesting though. I hadn't thought of that possibility. It's something I don't think Maschine can even do, but could probably be done with script. You can vary the interval with a knob though, so that can be expressive as well.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:50 AM   #10
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Ah, right. Velocity! So does IT move only in one direction when you apply it to the pads, from their initial velocity value? I mean it kinda makes sense since AT is not a bipolar modulation source...
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:20 AM   #11
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So does IT move only in one direction when you apply it to the pads, from their initial velocity value?
I guess maybe I don't quite understand the question, but it instantly changes velocity for the subsequent repeats and varies in real time with how hard you press. There are two messages on the pad; initial velocity is the note from striking the pad and then the aftertouch while you hold it and that varies along the full velocity range.

But the thing that is so hard to find in plugins is having the simultaneous, independent aftertouch velocity per pad. So you could have one sound hit hard and fade out while another fades in or bring in a steady hi hat while another pad build up to crescendo and then fade out again.

Is that what you mean? You can increase and decrease the velocity independent of the initial velocity?
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:52 AM   #12
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There are two messages on the pad; initial velocity is the note from striking the pad and then the aftertouch while you hold it and that varies along the full velocity range.
See, that's the confusing part. How can it be the full velocity range? Aftertouch only goes in one direction (down and more down ). So, let's say you hit the pad with velocity 48. Aftertouch would scale it so that ultimately reaches velocity 127, but it would NEVER go BELOW the initial velocity. Yes?
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:06 AM   #13
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Well it's actually called Poly Pressure now that I'm looking in the controller editor. Is that perhaps something a bit different than Poly AT? I must be using the wrong terms. Because it's definitely using the whole range. It also has the option of Channel Pressure, which I'm not sure what that means at all. It seems to behave about the same.
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:55 AM   #14
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Poly pressure = poly AT. Channel pressure is regular mono AT (same AT value for all notes of a particular MIDI channel.


I'm really not sure how it would work over the whole range. As an example: you play initial velocity of 64, so if AT is bipolar, that means AS SOON as you press it, with the lowest values, it would jump DOWN to very low velocities, and it would only return to the original initial velocity when AT value is 64... That doesn't sound right to me.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
show me one that can vary the velocity in response to poly aftertouch.
Should be rather easily doable by a JSFX.

I did not know that drum pads send poly aftertouch (or a defined note-off event or aftertouch at all ...). There are very few keyboards that send poly AT.

How do you suggest the repeat rate is to be defined ?

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Old 08-13-2017, 07:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
It's a feature common to drum machines but found rarely elsewhere. You set the beat interval and the notes you hold on your drum pads repeat at that interval, while held, and their volume responds to how hard you press.

I've looked high and low. Yea you can use an arpeggiator to keep repeating a held note at a certain interval, but show me one that can vary the velocity in response to poly aftertouch. Doesn't exist in the free realm afaik, and I'm not sure it does in the commercial realm either.

There are some methods of varying velocity with aftertouch, but multiple notes at once, each with unique variations of velocity? Not so much. I don't doubt that someone could code it if they wanted to, but it seems to me that no one yet has.
look up "pushbike" js by ijinijijnn or however he named himself
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we would benefit from the ability to "select most recently recorded midi" ... would reference midi recorded in last rec/overdub cycle. use case: easily selectively quantize most recently recorded notes
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:15 PM   #17
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How do you suggest the repeat rate is to be defined ?
Well how it is on Maschine is nice enough. With one knob you vary the interval from 1/1 to 1/128 and with another you vary the unit (normal, trible, dotted), one more controls the swing, and another is "gate" from 1%-200% though I'm not entirely sure what that does as I've never used it. I guess it's adding note offs in between.

You can also set up to 3 different intervals to be accessed by 3 buttons on the fly, which is a good performance tool.

One thing that Maschine cannot do is hold notes independently at different intervals, so an awesome extra feature, if someone were going to code something like this, would be hold 16 toggles, one for each pad. Having an independent interval per pad and the ability to note repeat just one pad, while having the rest freely playable would be some next level shit.

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look up "pushbike" js by ijinijijnn or however he named himself
Not really sure what it's supposed to do. I can't get it to do anything.
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:21 PM   #18
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With one knob you vary the interval from 1/1 to 1/128 and with another you vary the unit (normal, trible, dotted), one more controls the swing, and another is "gate" from 1%-200% though I'm not entirely sure what that does as I've never used it.
OK, But at first you need to know the "song tempo" for this. Defining the repeat rate in mSek would be easy for a JSFX. But I don't know how it should know about the BPM.

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Old 08-13-2017, 04:29 PM   #19
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https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=184087

>Not really sure what it's supposed to do. I can't get it to do anything.

read and test a little more, it's the closest thing to note repeat currently available as a midi processing plugin as far as i can find. would be interested to hear if something better exists. ijijn hasn't posted here since April but was last active today, so we can hope he'll revisit this at some point. there's a no gui version that loads a little faster, but otherwise, it takes a long time to load.

the code is impossible to read/edit for reasons i don't understand so any attempts to rewrite or edit this plugin will be from the ground up
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we would benefit from the ability to "select most recently recorded midi" ... would reference midi recorded in last rec/overdub cycle. use case: easily selectively quantize most recently recorded notes
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:39 PM   #20
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https://stash.reaper.fm/v/28130/midi...maschine_style
^Y/n?There are others..
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:03 PM   #21
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That's using channel pressure, so can't do velocities for multiple pads at once like Maschine.

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read and test a little more
I put it before a sampler and play MIDI through it. No matter the settings, it has zero effect on the incoming MIDI. In any case, can you verify from your experience that it has the ability to do multiple different velocities for simultaneously held notes? This is the clincher. No plugin I've encountered can do it, besides Maschine. Best they can ever do is all held notes share velocity changes based on channel pressure. Anyways, it's not an issue for me, because I just use Maschine for this.

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I don't know how it should know about the BPM.
JSFX don't know about project tempo? How can that be? Most VST's can do that.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:24 PM   #22
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That's using channel pressure, so can't do velocities for multiple pads at once like Maschine.
Lol- some are never quite happy--> use the power of the grey inside skull >>to fill the gaps
You command these things,let them not command you. =)
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:36 PM   #23
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Lol- some are never quite happy--> use the power of the grey inside skull >>to fill the gaps
You command these things,let them not command you. =)
What are you talking about? We're trying to determine if there's a plugin that can use poly AT for velocity (and thus replace Maschine note repeat function) and this is yet another one that can't.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:35 PM   #24
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JSFX don't know about project tempo? How can that be? Most VST's can do that.
I said, _I_ don't know, to state that it might be not as simple as I first thought. I did do some Midi filter JSFXes, but never tried to use such feature.

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Old 08-14-2017, 02:51 AM   #25
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If a JSFX plugin can be found that uses channel pressure (AT) imn a way similar to what you like to have and fits the bill in other aspects, it should be doable to enhance it to listen to poly AT.

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Old 08-14-2017, 12:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
If a JSFX plugin can be found that uses channel pressure (AT) imn a way similar to what you like to have and fits the bill in other aspects, it should be doable to enhance it to listen to poly AT.

-Michael
Well that one Bri1 mentions above was made to emulate Maschine behavior using channel pressure. But then there's what ED says about AT not being bipolar, and thus having velocity scaling limited by the first hit, so there might be something else behind the scenes that we're not aware of. In any case, OP still hasn't been back to clarify exactly what they want to do.

Either way, if you're keen on making a full-fledged Note Repeat JSFX, I'm willing to work with you on that, though I don't know code. But with the extra features I suggested, you'd likely end up with something quite beyond anything that currently exists.
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansaw View Post
Push and Maschine are quite expensive, but is there a way to get near their functionality with a simple mini midi keyboard and some clver setting up in Reaper?
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Yes, for the most part, but you will end up paying in time to set up all your samples. I've been using my Maschine Mikro for years and I'd never go back to my clunky free sampler days. I've paid for my time back 100 times over.
This 100%.

If your time is worth nothing then you can waste many hours attempting to mimic the functionality of Maschine with REAPER and you will still only get close. Then there's locating samples to use...

I bought a Maschine Mikro Mk2 used on eBay for like $200 which included the software license. You HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL when getting a used Maschine to ensure that the software is transferred with the unit. There are a lot of Maschine controllers being sold without software. If the seller has never heard of a License Transfer ID then you should just avoid them.
https://support.native-instruments.c...cense-Transfer

PUSH is waaaay more expensive, so I've never used it. I'm pretty sure that the PUSH controller comes with NO SOFTWARE AT ALL. Looking back, if I'd have had like $500 more dollars to spend I would have gotten PUSH instead. Oh wait... I didn't have $500 to spend at all, which is why I bought a second-hand Mikro.

I be honest. I love my Mikro. It was worth every penny.
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