Mackie Control Klinke v0.8

[john doe]

Thanks for this chart. I already have one like this, but yours is much more well-arranged

Unforunatly the info I´m looking for, is not on it. I´m looking for the messages the mcu has to receive in order to set the leds or the ledrings. In the case of the buttons with an led it´s relatively easy, they receive their on/off status with the same note the button sends.
With the other leds (like the ledrings) it works a little different:
E.g. VPot 1 sends CC 16 in relative mode, but the according ledring receive its value with CC 30 in absolute mode. That is not reflected in the charts (or others I came by).

I found the original MCU midi implementation last night, so I´m a one step further in the meantime. But I have some trouble understanding some parts. E.g. I found out, the 12th led right below the encoder is part of the ledring setting, but I can´t figure out which value would set it on/off.

Thanks and greets

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by john doe

I found out, the 12th led right below the encoder is part of the ledring setting, but I can´t figure out which value would set it on/off.

You have to set a bit to get it to light up.

IIRC you need to OR the value of interest with 01000000 (0x40) to light up the center LED.

if you can find this document -- Logic_Control_EN.pdf -- it's all laid out very well.

[john doe]

Hi Geoff, thanks for the info. Unfortunatly, I could not locate that file on the net yet. What I have, is the 2nd Version (2002) of that document. Are there many differencies in the older version?

I think I figured out what I was trying to achieve. I wanted to put a message on the tracks lcds to indicate, when a track is a folder track (on the original MCU this would have been covered by the 12th encoder led). The MCU receives CC values (B0 3x 01 to B0 3x 0B -> x = tracknumber) on a "normal" track and (B0 3x 41 to B0 3x 4B) on a folder track for the VPot in Pan mode.
Once I knew what I had to look for, I watched the output vie midi monitor.

This I can use. I can assign a visual feedback (symbol,scale,...) for the different values of the received values.

I still have a lot of research ahead of me. There´s still the thing with the signal led (or the metering feature all in all). I thought, the signal led would be set with a midi note, but there´s some kind of sysex message behind, i have to decode.

Also, I´m looking for a way to display the Timecode message on the lcds.

Unfortunatly I couldn´t see any sysex data on the monitor (besides the original host message), are those even transmitted to the mcu? I know the meters must be, since they´re mentioned in the klinke manual and there is even an option to disable them.

Thanks and greets

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

The one newest trouble I've run into is.. Undo.
When not even touching MCU just using Ctrl-z going back a few undo's Reaper will crash because of the Klinke extension. If I remove it it doesn't crash. Sometimes it's fine.. Few times it would crash everytime. Then other times it doesn't do it everytime.. Makes even harder to deal with when its random like that.

Are you sure that you didn't miss the last update? The version number shown should be 0.8.2.3.

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by john doe

I think I figured out what I was trying to achieve. I wanted to put a message on the tracks lcds to indicate, when a track is a folder track (on the original MCU this would have been covered by the 12th encoder led). The MCU receives CC values (B0 3x 01 to B0 3x 0B -> x = tracknumber) on a "normal" track and (B0 3x 41 to B0 3x 4B) on a folder track for the VPot in Pan mode.

The third byte of the MIDI events to set the track lcd is really tricky, because it contain three different information divided over it 7 bits.
The four lowest bits are used to represent numbers from 0 to 11, but the interpretation depends on the mode of the VPOT that is encoded in bit 5 and 6. Bit 7 is dedicated to the led below the button. Take a look in my source code for the VPots for details (okay, some comments are in german, i'm sorry about that):

https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...49b/VPOT_LED.h

https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...b/VPOT_LED.cpp

Regarding the level meter i can not remember the details, but as far as i remember, the level lcd of the MCU unit can not be controlled independently to the level meter on the display. And for the display track meter the code can be found here:

https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...TrackMeter.cpp

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Guod3

I've noticed that with the "no meter's" option that the gain level of the faders is diplayed nicely below the channel label on the LCD. With metering enabled, the gain levels are not displayed. I'd like to implement VU levels by LED bar or RGB LEDs or even custom LCD character bar graph, but I'd also very much like the gain levels to be displayed as well.
Is it possible to have both?

Sorry for the late reply. This should be possible and i have added this into the issue tracker. But don't expect an update in the near future.

[john doe]

Hi Klinke, thank you very much for the infos.

I´d like to provide a little update on my work. I got the folder indicator on my lcds to work and added a symbol for solo/mute/rec/selected. I also added a bar as a substitute for the missing vpot ledrings.
The folder indicator is that little icon right under the vpot bar. It disappears, if the track is not a folder.



There is an issue I´d like you to ask about. When the lcds are initiated, the host message displays just fine like in the picture above. But when the second line changes (e.g. volume change), the first character gets cut off.



This doesn´t happen if I use my mcu clone with Ableton. I don´t really think, this is a bug in your plugin, but I´m wondering what you could have done differently compared to the Ableton implementation. Maybe you have some insight or an idea to share about that. That could narrow my search for this error.

Thanks and greets

EDIT: Sorry for the rotated Images, they look just fine here on my laptop.

[Klinke]

maybe ableton always send the text of the whole display, even in the case that only a part was changed?

[john doe]

Does this mean your plugin only sends an update for the characters, which are changing? Interesting, I didn´t find the possibility for that in the MCU Implementation.
But thanks, this could be helpfull.

Greets

[Klinke]

Yes, the 7th byte of the sysex string is the offset for the following display text.

[john doe]

Hi Klinke,

thanks again for the info. You´re right, I monitored the sysex output of ableton and is always sends the whole second line when something is changing. I´m new to this whole sysex thing, so I didn´t notice that before.
That also means, that the first printed character on the second line (the one that gets shifted up) has to be the 8th byte, if I´m not mistaken.

Anyway, you´ve been very helpful, thanks again.

greets

[john doe]

Hi,

I have a question to Klinke and maybe to other MCU owners:

I´m using the Folder-Mode a lot. Today I also wanted to try to set "Adjust Mixer" in the options to "hide non MCU". The idea was to have only 4 folder tracks in Reaper´s mixer and on my mcu clone and when I open the folder with the mcu only the content of that folder track is displayed on the mcu and also inside Reaper´s mixer.

Without the Folder-Mode the "Adjust Mixer -> hide non MCU" option works fine, but with Folder-Mode active, it doesn´t seem to work.
I mean, I have only these 4 folder tracks on my mcu displays and on Reaper´s mixer. But I can´t open them via the mcu any more.

Does this also happen to other owners of an original MCU? If not, maybe there is something wrong with my clone.

But if this happens to others, is that the wanted behaviour?
Or did I do something wrong? Did I miss an option somewhere or did I activate another function by mistake that prevents what I´m trying to do?

Thanks and greets

[Klinke]

I can't reproduce this problem, works fine for me. Can you try to create an empty Reaper project with a track folder structure that cause this problem on your clone and send it to me (klinkenstecker@gmx.de)?

[john doe]

Hi Klinke,

Thanks a lot for stepping in. Just sent you an email.

greets

[Faderjockey]

Klinke I still get crashes on undo's. I love your extension.. Wadds doesn't do it. But when using yours if I'm working and find I have to go backwards on something and hit Ctrl+Z it will crash. But if i undo from menu doesn't crash.

But I hate not having your extension on.

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Klinke I still get crashes on undo's. I love your extension.. Wadds doesn't do it. But when using yours if I'm working and find I have to go backwards on something and hit Ctrl+Z it will crash. But if i undo from menu doesn't crash.

But I hate not having your extension on.

I tried it a lot but didn't get and single crash.

Can you send me your config files. In John Doe's case those helped a lot. They are in the folder Documents/Reaper/MCU/Config

[Faderjockey]

Klinke I sent you a PM. Wanted to know how to get you the files.
I just checked again... I was wrong it crashes with both ctr+z and using the undo in the main menu in Reaper.

[john doe]

Hi Klinke,

like I wrote in the mail, many thanks to you for your help.

The problem was caused by the combination of the options "Show -> Mixer" and "Adjust Mixer -> hide non MCU". The solution was simply to avoid this combination.

thanks and greets

[NessPJ]

Is there anyone here, that could perhaps explain to me how to get my Tascam control surface working with Reaper?
I just got one for a bargain deal, but am having some trouble to set it up.
(Tried it both as a Control Surface and MIDI device in reaper, but no luck so far...).

[john doe]

Hi NessPJ, what Tascam controller you got?

[NessPJ]

Hmmm...silly i didn't mention that right away..
Its a tascam fw-1884.

[john doe]

Ok, this one can speak Mackie Control .

http://tascam.com/content/downloads/...ote_e_1_00.pdf

Here you can find a manual on how to set it up as a Mackie Controller. Then you have access to Klinke´s ingenious MCU Plugin.

Just download it here:

https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...mcu_klinke.zip

Unzip the folder into Reaper´s Plugins direction (...\Reaper\Plugins).
Inside Reaper open the Preferences and go to the control surfaces tab. Inside that press "add" and choose "Mackie Control (Klinke)". Then set your midi in/out (your tascam) and press ok.
Also take a look into Klinke´s MCU manual for further infos on how to use it.

If you want to use lcd strips like the original MCU you can download BCFView from Behringer or HuskerVu, if this one is still available, to emulate the lcd on your screen.

greets

[NessPJ]

Thanks a lot for your help!
I put the Tascam to Mackie Control emulation, installed Klinke's dll and setup the Control surface (in/out set to "FW 1884 Control").
Strangely enough only the faders seem to be working (when i move them inside Reaper!).
The transport controls or the Vpots do not work at all!
Am i missing something here?

[john doe]

Hmm, honestly, I don´t know. I don´t have access to that controller, so I can´t test it for myself.
Maybe the Mackie Emulation of the Tascam is not complete. Or there is something wrong with the midi connection.
Can you control the volume faders inside Reaper with the Tascam faders?

[NessPJ]

Nope, the faders in Reaper aren't moving when i move one on the Tascam.
They do move the other way around though (when i change the value of a fader with my mouse inside Reaper).

[john doe]

Ok, it seems like the midi data is arriving at your Tascam but not at Reaper.
In the manual there is a small troubleshooting guide, that might help (FW-1884 Owner´s Manual P. 35-36). Otherwise I would say there is something wrong with the midi connection.
Like I said, I don´t have access to a Tascam, so all I can do right now is guessing.

[NessPJ]

Fixed it!!!
Appearantly the MIDI routing was off for 'Computer mode' (none of the options were 'checked' for read, wrt, tch or latch).
I selected them and voilá instant-movement.

[john doe]

Great! I´m glad you got it to work now.

greets

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Faderjockey

Klinke I sent you a PM. Wanted to know how to get you the files.
I just checked again... I was wrong it crashes with both ctr+z and using the undo in the main menu in Reaper.

Sorry, but I can not reproduce the crashes, even when I use your config files.

@All: Does somebody else run into crashes while using the undo function?

[NessPJ]

@Klinke:
Are you perhaps familiar with the fact that the touch sensitive faders on the Tascam FW 1884 do not seem to work in Reaper when using your .dll (and the Tascam in Mackie control protocol mode).
While, they do actually work on my Mackie MCU Pro...

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by Klinke

Sorry, but I can not reproduce the crashes, even when I use your config files.

@All: Does somebody else run into crashes while using the undo function?

ok.. not sure what to do then.

[lubvic]

hi klinke,first, i really apreciate your work!

Then, i'd like to use your driver with my 2 bcf2000, but as i read, is not possible to use multiple units.
Now, with this assertion, do you mean that is not possible to use multiple units in conjunction, switching banks toghether on both or is not possible at all?
I'm asking this because i've read in a post that you could make a Klinke_A and klinke_B driver, and for me, it would be great!
My problem is that i send bank+ and bank- to my bcfs from two touchosc tablets via touchosc bridge, converting to note on/note off messages (67-68 if i am right) and both the unit responds to the same notes, so it would be possible to change receving notes on the secon unit? this way i can tell first tablet to send a note and second one to send a different note... touchosc bridge is only one midi port out for both bcf's... or mayby just need to send the first tablet the notes on midi channel one the second on midi channel two.

I not only don't care about switching banks on units linked, i NEED to separate the units, so that one don't see the other, i don't know how to do this in other ways... it's crucial for me to switch banks separately so that i can have bank 1-8 and 17-24 simultaneously, for example.

Thanks for any suggestion and sorry for the confusion!!!

Here in italy is really late on night!

Johnny

[flipotto]

Hey - Thanks so much for your work on this Klinke!

I finally decided to buy one of these instead of writing emulations for it.

I got a cheap mcu pro for $400 I could not pass up, I love it.

I am trying to use/understand folder modes on the plugin.
I created a project with a 3 parent tracks each with 2 children then I made one master parent for them all.

Flat mode works as expected all are out there on the lcd with faders.

Include parent - gives me just the parents on the faders and lcd. - yeah ok that is expected.

Only Children - left me wondering until

Snip from 7.1.1 of the manual
When you switch to Folder-Mode, only tracks are shown that have the Master track as their
root. For all tracks that have children, the LED below the VPOT is illuminated.

The signal led or led below the vpot is not illuminated for any of the parents in my project and they all have children.
Is this just me? Can you please add that back in if it's gone?

You can select
these tracks as a new root track by pressing the corresponding SELECT button for longer than one
second. To move back to the root track, press the GLOBAL VIEW button

The hold for longer than a second is easy to miss, I had to read it a few times to "get it"
Wow - very nicely done there is great flexibility with this.
Thankfully - I get some time to experiment with the mcu with your great plugin!

Thank you much!
------------------
EDIT - My post is about the LED not working as described with MCU pro.
It is supposed to tell me which tracks have children. It does not.

It is also about the hidden gem of holding the select button. Sorry I was not clear.

Also - in Pan mode 7.1 from the manual says

REC: Arm Track on/off
– SHIFT: Monitor on/off. As long as SHIFT is pressed the SOLO button LEDs show the
Monitor status (On = monitoring is active)
– OPTION: Rec Mode Input/None. As long as OPTION is pressed the SOLO button LEDs
are show the Rec Mode status (On = Rec Mode is set to Input, Off = all other settings)

SOLO leds do not react as described. No indication when shift or option and record button that changes items in reaper reflected on SOLO led.

[nofish]

Until Klinke jumps in...

Not sure I fully understand your question about folders, is this basically about "folders in folders" ?

If so, I asked a similar question here, maybe it helps.

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=301

If not, sorry for misunderstanding.

[flipotto]

Really my post was about the LED - see edited post.

[Klinke]

I have found some time now, to check your LED problems, but can not reproduce those with my Mackie Control, everything works like expected here.

One Remarks: With LED below the VPOT, I actual mean the small red LED that is in the south of the VPOT LED ring.

And regardings the REC button LED: What is happening when you press and hold the SHIFT or OPTION button on the Mackie Control and then a REC button. Is the LED state of the REC button still the same afterwards? Has the Monitor/Rec Mode Status changed in Reaper?

Best,
Klinke

[RocketRancher]

Originally Posted by TYEDURA

That was my whole reasoning for getting a MAC in the first place. Is there anyone here running a Mac and Projectmix I/O setup with no issues? Since i cant use Klinkle's program I began using Reapers own MCU but the transport controls dont all work. Record wont work at all and play enables both the play and pause transports in the DAW.
I refuse to believe that there is nobody else on here thats using Reaper with a PMIO and a MAC. It cant only be me

Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell

Anyone interested in better MCU functionality on a MAC should see this thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...50#post1033850

"Valley" says he's successfully compiled Geoff Wadington's plugin for OSX. Might be willing to develop a user configurable, cross platform plug in.

Tyedura, Greetings and Yes!

I'm using a PMIO with Reaper on a Mac. I don't have any quarrel with the track and transport controls (re: record - are your tracks armed?) But the "corner" controls aren't mapped to my comfort.

Off-Topic, but to fully answer, my PMIO is in Cubase mode and Reaper's prefs are: Audio:Audio Device == Projectmix Multichannel, Audio:MIDI devices == empty, Control Surfaces == MCU with its MIDI in & out both enabled for control and the "touch" and "map" boxes ticked.

'Cowbell, Thanks for keeping an eye out and the redirect.

[Salem Beats]

Hey Klinke,

I'm just swinging by to let you know that your MCU implementation is the most powerful I've come across in any DAW by far.

It's jam-packed with features and it's very organized.

If you decide to continue with the development of this amazing plugin, I'm excited to see what you might come up with next!

-Ki
Salem Beats

[Salem Beats]

Originally Posted by flipotto

SOLO leds do not react as described. No indication when shift or option and record button that changes items in reaper reflected on SOLO led.

It's actually the "REC" LED, not the "SOLO" LED. Dunno whether that was your typo, or a typo in the manual, or a change somewhere along the way that didn't get updated.

Also, it works only on record-armed tracks. If a track is not record-armed prior to holding "Shift" or "Option", nothing will light up (or rather, nothing will *remain* lit, since it has to be record-armed in the first place for this functionality to work).

I had never really used this feature until I tried it out just now to reproduce your problem.
I almost thought I confirmed your issue until I messed around and saw that it works only on record-armed tracks.

On a tangent:

It's kinda too bad that it works this way.
My "Analog Inputs" on my RME serve double-duty -- as either a set of analog inputs or a set of loopback channels, depending on driver settings. When I'm using the set as a loopback, it'd be nice to disable record-monitoring BEFORE record-enabling the track, so that I don't get a painful burst of feedback. On the other hand, I've never used this functionality in Klinke's plugin to begin with, and have always controlled the monitoring/input source using the mouse.

Is this technically feasible to change in the next version, Klinke?

-Ki
Salem Beats

[Klinke]

Thanks alot for spotting the mistake in the manual and the bug in the extension. And also for the praise.

I have added your bug into the bugbase I will try to fix it in the next version. But currently I adjust the extension to newer versions of the libraries I use, and this take some time (especially because currently I do not have much time to work on it, I hope that the situation will improve next year).