Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > MIDI Hardware, Control Surfaces, and OSC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2024, 03:40 AM   #25961
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
OK - This is what I'm using in the Track zon.
The basic premise (in the main arrange/track zone) is:

CTRL - to do with track modifying/editing
ALT - to do with item editing - nothing included in this file as yet
SHFT - is the usually "negative/less than/ alternative to / or the second addition to the CTRL or ALT modifier"
OPT - the added modifier to a combination of the others. Rarely used on its own. The second or third addition to the CTRl or ALT modifier.

....The explanation is more complex than the use!

Code:
Zone Track

                        /OnZoneActivation	   SetXTouchDisplayColors "Cyan Red Red Blue Green Magenta Yellow White"
                        
                                  VUMeter|      TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
                             DisplayUpper|      TrackNameDisplay
                                    Fader|      TrackVolume 
                       Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay            
                                   Rotary|      TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot   // PAN
                             DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay
                             
                               RotaryPush|      ToggleChannel                  
                            Toggle+Rotary|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot  // WIDTH
                      Toggle+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay
                      
                              Flip+Rotary|       TrackVolume
                               Flip+Fader|       TrackPan       
                                                
                                RecordArm|      TrackRecordArm
                                     Solo|      TrackSolo
                               Shift+Solo|      ClearAllSolo
                               Shift+Solo|      TrackSolo
                          
                                     Mute|      TrackMute
                               Shift+Mute|      Reaper 40339   // Track: Unmute all tracks
                               Shift+Mute|      TrackMute
                               
                                   Select|      TrackUniqueSelect
                             Shift+Select|      TrackRangeSelect
                           Control+Select|      TrackSelect                 
                              Hold+Select|      Reaper _3de632b74003493686e0e1e5fe14c508 // Custom: zoom vert and centre track
                              Hold+Select|      Reaper 40031                             // zoom time selection 
                                
                   
              //WITH MODIFIERS:
                               
                             // View PAN and STEP LCR on rotary push
              
                         Shift+RotaryPush|      TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot   [ 0.0 0.5 1.0 ] // PAN
                       Shift+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
                       
              
                             // View WIDTH and STEP 100REVMONO on rotary push
                             
                      Option+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay  
               Toggle+Option+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay 
                            Option+Rotary|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot 
                        Option+RotaryPush|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot [ 0.0 0.5 1.0 ]
                        
                        
                             // "CTRL" Modifier - APPLIES TO TRACK MODIFYING..
                             
                      
                             // View AUTOMODE and STEP through using recordarm
                        
                           Control+Rotary|      NoAction
                       Control+RotaryPush|      NoAction
                        Control+RecordArm|      CycleTrackAutoMode
                     Control+DisplayLower|      TrackAutoModeDisplay
                     
                            // View flip phase ON/OFF using recordarm (ON = INVERT)
                            
                     Control+Shift+Rotary|      NoAction
                 Control+Shift+RotaryPush|      NoAction
                  Control+Shift+RecordArm|      TrackInvertPolarity
               Control+Shift+DisplayLower|      TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
                              
              
                                  // For recording -- latch CTRL modifier
                                  
                 Control+Option+RecordArm|      CycleTrackInputMonitor
              Control+Option+DisplayUpper|      TrackNameDisplay
              Control+Option+DisplayLower| 	   TrackInputMonitorDisplay
              
    
           Control+Option+Shift+RecordArm|      CycleTrackRecordInputMonitor
         Control+Option+ShiftDisplayUpper|      TrackRecordNameDisplay
        Control+Option+Shift+DisplayLower| 	    TrackRecordInputDisplay
              
              // (Save ALT modifier for editing items)
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 03:50 AM   #25962
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
Agreed I use it that way too - as mimicking the hot keys.. doesn't get tangled up as it's only "Select" button that does that, or am I misunderstanding? I don't latch to select multiple tracks as it's momentary making the selection - do you latch to do that?
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 03:56 AM   #25963
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
Agreed I use it that way too - as mimicking the hot keys.. doesn't get tangled up as it's only "Select" button that does that, or am I misunderstanding? I don't latch to select multiple tracks as it's momentary making the selection - do you latch to do that?
What I Don't get working on this is the metering other that the small green signal light and the record channel doesn't change with recarm button - is that where we're at with those features? In case I can add something...
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 03:59 AM   #25964
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
It' could be prudent to have "SHFT" come in the upper display when engaged.. I add "ClearAllModifiers" to "Track" button so it's not confusing as to if one or more modifiers are engaged
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 04:19 AM   #25965
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
It' could be prudent to have "SHFT" come in the upper display when engaged.. I add "ClearAllModifiers" to "Track" button so it's not confusing as to if one or more modifiers are engaged
Or : Shift+Select| NoAction
Control+Shift+Select| NoAction
Option+Shift+Select| NoAction
Control+Option+Shift+Select| NoAction

As standard, then the user can knowingly modify those...

Though I must say, I've not made that error yet.. the Shift+DisplayUpper| "SHIFT" might be a good visual resolve...
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 06:38 AM   #25966
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
the Shift+DisplayUpper| "SHIFT" might be a good visual resolve...
This is where we'll see differences depending on the Surface.

On the X-Touch, every button, except the one to the left of the counter, lights up, so we don't really need anything further.

OTOH, it would be nice to keep to a standard, where possible.

Please, everyone join in this discussion, this seemingly subtle stuff is super important, we want to get it as close to right as possible.

While there is no one best way to layout controls, there are a lot of clearly bad ways, which we shall attempt to avoid
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 07:19 AM   #25967
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
This is where we'll see differences depending on the Surface.

On the X-Touch, every button, except the one to the left of the counter, lights up, so we don't really need anything further.

OTOH, it would be nice to keep to a standard, where possible.

Please, everyone join in this discussion, this seemingly subtle stuff is super important, we want to get it as close to right as possible.

While there is no one best way to layout controls, there are a lot of clearly bad ways, which we shall attempt to avoid
Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU - so carefully planned use of those brought me to this thinking/layout. Are you still thinking this setup will conflict? It's the tip of the iceberg really - this ideology goes into the jogwheel, as demoed in a few of my vids -
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 07:31 AM   #25968
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU - so carefully planned use of those brought me to this thinking/layout. Are you still thinking this setup will conflict? It's the tip of the iceberg really - this ideology goes into the jogwheel, as demoed in a few of my vids -
I know you've put a tremendous amount of well thought out effort in to this, so let's call this the MCU set for now.

If you are happy with your definitions and everyone else agrees, let's make this the set that ships.

Now, the question is, is it OK to deviate for another controller stock setup, I think so, since each surface will offer different capabilities.

Anyone else have thoughts, please, please join in !
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 08:22 AM   #25969
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,061
Default

For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 08:39 AM   #25970
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
Great thoughts, thanks for joining the discussion !

Also a great idea for a Hold Time Action, probably name it the same as SetLatchTime -- SetHoldTime.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 08:51 AM   #25971
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,061
Default

SetHoldTime sounds good. But should it be an action or a CSI.ini setting? If an action, can it be changed on demand? I didn't originally consider that but it sounds good.

EDIT: Would SetHoldTime and SetLatchTime be separate actions? I'm not sure they need to be but I wouldn't be opposed either.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki

Last edited by Funkybot; 05-26-2024 at 09:00 AM.
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 09:22 AM   #25972
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
SetHoldTime sounds good. But should it be an action or a CSI.ini setting? If an action, can it be changed on demand? I didn't originally consider that but it sounds good.

EDIT: Would SetHoldTime and SetLatchTime be separate actions? I'm not sure they need to be but I wouldn't be opposed either.
Already done

It's a separate Action - SetHoldTime.

I'm leaning toward using Actions for most "special" values with an eye on keeping CSI.ini as simple as possible.

The OnInitialization widget is very handy
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2024, 12:22 PM   #25973
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
Ironically - I use the idea with modifiers for the very reason: I can't remember well..
I'd be really keen to hear what are the alternative to Modifiers to expand on the displays relating to the actions.. I know in a plugin scenario there' s pages.. I continue to use modifiers as pages there - left hand works the values while right chooses if that's gain/freq/Q with modifiers -
I get that you want install to be simple to explain, but CSI is there to overtake simple and do complex... simply. When a user wants to develop, there's a bed of workflow available to build from. As someone using modifiers with no lights... I'm not sure how it's confusing to use them on devices that do have lights..Either way - they're my thoughts on it - I don't think I being able to LCR or wide/rev/mon is a specific workflow just a fast way with a working display to cut to the chase - maybe its' an impatient workflow
Regarding documentation, there are always videos explaining these things too..
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2024, 02:29 AM   #25974
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU
I just swapped the four modifiers with buttons that do have LEDs. Same on the C4.
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2024, 12:34 PM   #25975
UNdark
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I just swapped the four modifiers with buttons that do have LEDs. Same on the C4.
I remember and copied that - still, I found it easier use the actual modifiers directly related to the keyboard shortcuts once ClearAllModifiers and being able to clear specific modifiers evolved. That left those buttons I had been using, free for their original purpose.
A little bit like yourself and your sticky labels.. I became quite obsessed with the ability to edit envelopes.. something that ha always been a grind, whichever DAW.
Again, following a simple system with modifiers, duplicated where possible on the keyboard for hot keys.. In fact this all started with hotkeys and used this method to remember more patterns.
I know it makes sense not to install huge complex zon files. I do think that as users progress with expanding the features, an underlying concept of how that can be done, would be beneficial.
__________________
Mac Mini 2.3 quad 16gb ram os x - High Sierra + Catalina.... sort of.... nearly....
UNdark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2024, 12:51 PM   #25976
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
I remember and copied that - still, I found it easier use the actual modifiers directly related to the keyboard shortcuts once ClearAllModifiers and being able to clear specific modifiers evolved. That left those buttons I had been using, free for their original purpose.
A little bit like yourself and your sticky labels.. I became quite obsessed with the ability to edit envelopes.. something that ha always been a grind, whichever DAW.
Again, following a simple system with modifiers, duplicated where possible on the keyboard for hot keys.. In fact this all started with hotkeys and used this method to remember more patterns.
I know it makes sense not to install huge complex zon files. I do think that as users progress with expanding the features, an underlying concept of how that can be done, would be beneficial.
Now thinking there is room for more than one set.

Perhaps
Code:
MCU Stock
MCU Advanced
Something like that...
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 03:56 AM   #25977
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Design question.

As you likely know, there are 3 main sections in an autogenerated Zone.

Code:
Prologue
Auto generated section
Epiloogue
What happens when you edit an existing Zone ?

I think the right answer is to replace the Prologue and Epilogue with the current ones.

After all, the current ones are used whenever you auto generate a Zone.

The alternative is to keep the old ones, but that seems less attractive.

Any changes to Prologue/Epilogue are likely due to a change in thinking about workflow, and therefore should be reflected in the edit.

What do you think ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:22 AM   #25978
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,061
Default

I think it makes perfect sense to update the pro/epilogue to use the current one. Shy of Regex, it may even be a nice way to bring old fx zones up to date.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:58 AM   #25979
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I think it makes perfect sense to update the pro/epilogue to use the current one. Shy of Regex, it may even be a nice way to bring old fx zones up to date.
Cool, speaking of legacy, going to bring back Feedback=No (deprecated) -- Cragster hit that one the other day.

There will be a change in the auto generated files, the existing ones will work just fine.

The cell markers are not needed in the new code, but everything will work fine with those Zones that have them.

"NullDisplay" is replaced with a more sensible definition from an internal coding perspective.

Don't worry, Zones with "NullDisplay" will still work fine.

Code:
RotaryPush7 NoAction
DisplayUpper7 NullDisplay
DisplayLower7 NullDisplay
becomes

Code:
RotaryPush7 NoAction
DisplayUpper7 NoAction NoFeedback
DisplayLower7 NoAction NoFeedback
The one that I think will trip folks up, is the requirement to add NoFeedback statements to existing definitions where there is more than one Action assigned to a Widget and there is a feedback processor.

Multiple Actions that, say, trigger scripts, will be fine, since there is no feedback sent to the control surface.

Can anyone think of anything else that needs to be retained for compatibility ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:22 AM   #25980
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Playing around with display setup in Learn.

Workflow is not good.

If you want to swap upper and lower displays, you need to select from 2 different drop downs.

Do we even need to do that ?

I don't recall anyone ever asking to flip the order of param name and param value.

It would simplify the user interface and allow for much less complex code if we state that Autogenerate/Learn puts param name on row 1 and param value on row 2.

If there are more than 2 rows of display, we could say that the second Widget, as in Rotary, RotaryPush, uses the second set of rows (3&4) for display.

Don't forget this is only for Autogenerate / Learn, we can still do anything we want with hand crafted Zones.

So, for a setup that has Rotary, RotaryPush, and Fader, and 2 rows, they would all get Upper and Lower, and there would be a simple checkbox.

When checked, CSI would display parameters for that Widget (e.g. Rotary) that would simply set feedback accordingly -- much easier to wrap your head around, especially for Autogenerate/Learn.

Code:
Rotary3 FXParam 2 RingStyle=Dot
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "Thresh" 
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 2 

RotaryPush3 NoAction
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback

Fader3 NoAction
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
What do you think ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 11:27 AM   #25981
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,061
Default

That sounds good. Should be nice for the SCE-24 where I might have Rotary (Displays 1/2) and RotaryPush (Displays 3/4) assigned.

Just out of curiosity, are you keeping a running list of changes for when it comes to go-live? Just thinking about what would need to change in the wiki and covering all the various little migration bits and bobs.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:17 PM   #25982
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
That sounds good. Should be nice for the SCE-24 where I might have Rotary (Displays 1/2) and RotaryPush (Displays 3/4) assigned.
Definitely was thinking about the SCE24/C4 when contemplating this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just out of curiosity, are you keeping a running list of changes for when it comes to go-live? Just thinking about what would need to change in the wiki and covering all the various little migration bits and bobs.
Sort of

I'm trying out so many new ideas, it may be better to start from scratch on the Learn Window.

As far as the rest, trying to maintain backward compatibility as much as possible.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 03:48 PM   #25983
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,402
Default

DEMO ONLY DO NOT USE FOR PRODUCTION

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Possible fix for the crash Cragster had, thanks Roy for all of your help !

Learn Window is coming along.

You can now enable/disable the param name and param value displays.

Just select a parameter, check/uncheck the Show box(es), and hit Apply.

Don't forget to refocus the FX to see your changes.

Interested in what everyone thinks, so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention, Feedback=No is back so you don't need to change existing Zones to use NoFeedback.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; Today at 04:28 PM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.