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Old 05-26-2024, 03:40 AM   #25961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
OK - This is what I'm using in the Track zon.
The basic premise (in the main arrange/track zone) is:

CTRL - to do with track modifying/editing
ALT - to do with item editing - nothing included in this file as yet
SHFT - is the usually "negative/less than/ alternative to / or the second addition to the CTRL or ALT modifier"
OPT - the added modifier to a combination of the others. Rarely used on its own. The second or third addition to the CTRl or ALT modifier.

....The explanation is more complex than the use!

Code:
Zone Track

                        /OnZoneActivation	   SetXTouchDisplayColors "Cyan Red Red Blue Green Magenta Yellow White"
                        
                                  VUMeter|      TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
                             DisplayUpper|      TrackNameDisplay
                                    Fader|      TrackVolume 
                       Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay            
                                   Rotary|      TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot   // PAN
                             DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay
                             
                               RotaryPush|      ToggleChannel                  
                            Toggle+Rotary|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot  // WIDTH
                      Toggle+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay
                      
                              Flip+Rotary|       TrackVolume
                               Flip+Fader|       TrackPan       
                                                
                                RecordArm|      TrackRecordArm
                                     Solo|      TrackSolo
                               Shift+Solo|      ClearAllSolo
                               Shift+Solo|      TrackSolo
                          
                                     Mute|      TrackMute
                               Shift+Mute|      Reaper 40339   // Track: Unmute all tracks
                               Shift+Mute|      TrackMute
                               
                                   Select|      TrackUniqueSelect
                             Shift+Select|      TrackRangeSelect
                           Control+Select|      TrackSelect                 
                              Hold+Select|      Reaper _3de632b74003493686e0e1e5fe14c508 // Custom: zoom vert and centre track
                              Hold+Select|      Reaper 40031                             // zoom time selection 
                                
                   
              //WITH MODIFIERS:
                               
                             // View PAN and STEP LCR on rotary push
              
                         Shift+RotaryPush|      TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot   [ 0.0 0.5 1.0 ] // PAN
                       Shift+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
                       
              
                             // View WIDTH and STEP 100REVMONO on rotary push
                             
                      Option+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay  
               Toggle+Option+DisplayLower|      TrackPanAutoRightDisplay 
                            Option+Rotary|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot 
                        Option+RotaryPush|      TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot [ 0.0 0.5 1.0 ]
                        
                        
                             // "CTRL" Modifier - APPLIES TO TRACK MODIFYING..
                             
                      
                             // View AUTOMODE and STEP through using recordarm
                        
                           Control+Rotary|      NoAction
                       Control+RotaryPush|      NoAction
                        Control+RecordArm|      CycleTrackAutoMode
                     Control+DisplayLower|      TrackAutoModeDisplay
                     
                            // View flip phase ON/OFF using recordarm (ON = INVERT)
                            
                     Control+Shift+Rotary|      NoAction
                 Control+Shift+RotaryPush|      NoAction
                  Control+Shift+RecordArm|      TrackInvertPolarity
               Control+Shift+DisplayLower|      TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
                              
              
                                  // For recording -- latch CTRL modifier
                                  
                 Control+Option+RecordArm|      CycleTrackInputMonitor
              Control+Option+DisplayUpper|      TrackNameDisplay
              Control+Option+DisplayLower| 	   TrackInputMonitorDisplay
              
    
           Control+Option+Shift+RecordArm|      CycleTrackRecordInputMonitor
         Control+Option+ShiftDisplayUpper|      TrackRecordNameDisplay
        Control+Option+Shift+DisplayLower| 	    TrackRecordInputDisplay
              
              // (Save ALT modifier for editing items)
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
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Old 05-26-2024, 03:50 AM   #25962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
Agreed I use it that way too - as mimicking the hot keys.. doesn't get tangled up as it's only "Select" button that does that, or am I misunderstanding? I don't latch to select multiple tracks as it's momentary making the selection - do you latch to do that?
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Old 05-26-2024, 03:56 AM   #25963
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Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
Agreed I use it that way too - as mimicking the hot keys.. doesn't get tangled up as it's only "Select" button that does that, or am I misunderstanding? I don't latch to select multiple tracks as it's momentary making the selection - do you latch to do that?
What I Don't get working on this is the metering other that the small green signal light and the record channel doesn't change with recarm button - is that where we're at with those features? In case I can add something...
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Old 05-26-2024, 03:59 AM   #25964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
It' could be prudent to have "SHFT" come in the upper display when engaged.. I add "ClearAllModifiers" to "Track" button so it's not confusing as to if one or more modifiers are engaged
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Old 05-26-2024, 04:19 AM   #25965
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Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
It' could be prudent to have "SHFT" come in the upper display when engaged.. I add "ClearAllModifiers" to "Track" button so it's not confusing as to if one or more modifiers are engaged
Or : Shift+Select| NoAction
Control+Shift+Select| NoAction
Option+Shift+Select| NoAction
Control+Option+Shift+Select| NoAction

As standard, then the user can knowingly modify those...

Though I must say, I've not made that error yet.. the Shift+DisplayUpper| "SHIFT" might be a good visual resolve...
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Old 05-26-2024, 06:38 AM   #25966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
the Shift+DisplayUpper| "SHIFT" might be a good visual resolve...
This is where we'll see differences depending on the Surface.

On the X-Touch, every button, except the one to the left of the counter, lights up, so we don't really need anything further.

OTOH, it would be nice to keep to a standard, where possible.

Please, everyone join in this discussion, this seemingly subtle stuff is super important, we want to get it as close to right as possible.

While there is no one best way to layout controls, there are a lot of clearly bad ways, which we shall attempt to avoid
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Old 05-26-2024, 07:19 AM   #25967
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
This is where we'll see differences depending on the Surface.

On the X-Touch, every button, except the one to the left of the counter, lights up, so we don't really need anything further.

OTOH, it would be nice to keep to a standard, where possible.

Please, everyone join in this discussion, this seemingly subtle stuff is super important, we want to get it as close to right as possible.

While there is no one best way to layout controls, there are a lot of clearly bad ways, which we shall attempt to avoid
Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU - so carefully planned use of those brought me to this thinking/layout. Are you still thinking this setup will conflict? It's the tip of the iceberg really - this ideology goes into the jogwheel, as demoed in a few of my vids -
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Old 05-26-2024, 07:31 AM   #25968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU - so carefully planned use of those brought me to this thinking/layout. Are you still thinking this setup will conflict? It's the tip of the iceberg really - this ideology goes into the jogwheel, as demoed in a few of my vids -
I know you've put a tremendous amount of well thought out effort in to this, so let's call this the MCU set for now.

If you are happy with your definitions and everyone else agrees, let's make this the set that ships.

Now, the question is, is it OK to deviate for another controller stock setup, I think so, since each surface will offer different capabilities.

Anyone else have thoughts, please, please join in !
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Old 05-26-2024, 08:22 AM   #25969
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For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
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Old 05-26-2024, 08:39 AM   #25970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
Great thoughts, thanks for joining the discussion !

Also a great idea for a Hold Time Action, probably name it the same as SetLatchTime -- SetHoldTime.
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Old 05-26-2024, 08:51 AM   #25971
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SetHoldTime sounds good. But should it be an action or a CSI.ini setting? If an action, can it be changed on demand? I didn't originally consider that but it sounds good.

EDIT: Would SetHoldTime and SetLatchTime be separate actions? I'm not sure they need to be but I wouldn't be opposed either.
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Old 05-26-2024, 09:22 AM   #25972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
SetHoldTime sounds good. But should it be an action or a CSI.ini setting? If an action, can it be changed on demand? I didn't originally consider that but it sounds good.

EDIT: Would SetHoldTime and SetLatchTime be separate actions? I'm not sure they need to be but I wouldn't be opposed either.
Already done

It's a separate Action - SetHoldTime.

I'm leaning toward using Actions for most "special" values with an eye on keeping CSI.ini as simple as possible.

The OnInitialization widget is very handy
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Old 05-26-2024, 12:22 PM   #25973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
For my money, I'd avoid combination modifiers wherever possible in stock zone files. If we want to create surface documentation, like an X-Touch manual, strings of combo modifiers will make it a nightmare to document.

I noticed Undark has some custom scripts and a very specific workflow (things like LCR panning on push), and I think all that will be difficult to remember. Great for a custom setup, but I wouldn't necessarily think that concept will translate intuitively to most end-users and therefore stock surface files.

My general guidelines would be:

1. Keep the zone files clean and easy to read
2. Try to group modified widgets with the widgets like Undark does
3. Try to avoid combination modifiers where possible
4. Modified display actions next to the modified widget+action so it's easy to keep track of when DisplayLower is updating to something else and why

So for the X-Touch, I'd recommend a stock Track.zon like this one...
Code:
Zone "Track"

    VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR
    DisplayUpper|            TrackNameDisplay { Track }
    Touch+DisplayLower|      TrackVolumeDisplay

    Fader|                   TrackVolume 
    Flip+Fader|              TrackPan 

    Rotary|                  TrackPanAutoLeft RingStyle=Dot
    DisplayLower|            TrackPanAutoLeftDisplay 
    Toggle+Rotary|           TrackPanAutoRight RingStyle=Dot
    Toggle+DisplayLower|     TrackPanAutoRightDisplay

    RotaryPush|              ToggleChannel
    Shift+RotaryPush|        TrackPan [ 0.5 ]         // Reset track pan to center
    Option+RotaryPush|       TrackPanWidth [ 1.0 ]    // Reset track width to maximum

    RecordArm|               TrackRecordArm
    Option+RecordArm|        CycleTrackInputMonitor  
    Option+DisplayLower|     TrackInputMonitorDisplay   
    Control+RecordArm|       TrackInvertPolarity         
    Control+DisplayLower     TrackInvertPolarityDisplay
    Alt+RecordArm            CycleTrackAutoMode
    Alt+DisplayLower|        TrackAutoModeDisplay

    Solo|                    TrackSolo
    Shift+Solo|              ClearAllSolo

    Mute|                    TrackMute
    Shift+Mute|              Reaper 40339             // Track: Unmute all tracks
    
    Select|                  TrackUniqueSelect
    Shift+Select|            TrackRangeSelect
    Control+Select|          TrackSelect
    Hold+Select|             TrackVolume [ 0.760 ]    // Reset track volume to unity

ZoneEnd
...I feel like that's clean and easy to read, and covers all the key functionality. It also demonstrates how to use a Reaper action, like Shit+Mute to unmute all tracks.

As part of the redesign: it would be nice if we could define the "Hold time" somewhere. Like for example, someone may want "fast holds" (like 500ms), someone may want "slower holds" if they're a little more deliberate (like 2,000ms). For instance, I use Hold+Select above to reset track volume and if you're a slow presser or a thinker, you may not want that firing off too quickly.
Ironically - I use the idea with modifiers for the very reason: I can't remember well..
I'd be really keen to hear what are the alternative to Modifiers to expand on the displays relating to the actions.. I know in a plugin scenario there' s pages.. I continue to use modifiers as pages there - left hand works the values while right chooses if that's gain/freq/Q with modifiers -
I get that you want install to be simple to explain, but CSI is there to overtake simple and do complex... simply. When a user wants to develop, there's a bed of workflow available to build from. As someone using modifiers with no lights... I'm not sure how it's confusing to use them on devices that do have lights..Either way - they're my thoughts on it - I don't think I being able to LCR or wide/rev/mon is a specific workflow just a fast way with a working display to cut to the chase - maybe its' an impatient workflow
Regarding documentation, there are always videos explaining these things too..
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Old 05-27-2024, 02:29 AM   #25974
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Quote:
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Yes - no lights on any modifiers on MCU
I just swapped the four modifiers with buttons that do have LEDs. Same on the C4.
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Old 05-27-2024, 12:34 PM   #25975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I just swapped the four modifiers with buttons that do have LEDs. Same on the C4.
I remember and copied that - still, I found it easier use the actual modifiers directly related to the keyboard shortcuts once ClearAllModifiers and being able to clear specific modifiers evolved. That left those buttons I had been using, free for their original purpose.
A little bit like yourself and your sticky labels.. I became quite obsessed with the ability to edit envelopes.. something that ha always been a grind, whichever DAW.
Again, following a simple system with modifiers, duplicated where possible on the keyboard for hot keys.. In fact this all started with hotkeys and used this method to remember more patterns.
I know it makes sense not to install huge complex zon files. I do think that as users progress with expanding the features, an underlying concept of how that can be done, would be beneficial.
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Old 05-27-2024, 12:51 PM   #25976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNdark View Post
I remember and copied that - still, I found it easier use the actual modifiers directly related to the keyboard shortcuts once ClearAllModifiers and being able to clear specific modifiers evolved. That left those buttons I had been using, free for their original purpose.
A little bit like yourself and your sticky labels.. I became quite obsessed with the ability to edit envelopes.. something that ha always been a grind, whichever DAW.
Again, following a simple system with modifiers, duplicated where possible on the keyboard for hot keys.. In fact this all started with hotkeys and used this method to remember more patterns.
I know it makes sense not to install huge complex zon files. I do think that as users progress with expanding the features, an underlying concept of how that can be done, would be beneficial.
Now thinking there is room for more than one set.

Perhaps
Code:
MCU Stock
MCU Advanced
Something like that...
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Old 05-29-2024, 03:56 AM   #25977
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Design question.

As you likely know, there are 3 main sections in an autogenerated Zone.

Code:
Prologue
Auto generated section
Epiloogue
What happens when you edit an existing Zone ?

I think the right answer is to replace the Prologue and Epilogue with the current ones.

After all, the current ones are used whenever you auto generate a Zone.

The alternative is to keep the old ones, but that seems less attractive.

Any changes to Prologue/Epilogue are likely due to a change in thinking about workflow, and therefore should be reflected in the edit.

What do you think ?
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Old 05-29-2024, 06:22 AM   #25978
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I think it makes perfect sense to update the pro/epilogue to use the current one. Shy of Regex, it may even be a nice way to bring old fx zones up to date.
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Old 05-29-2024, 06:58 AM   #25979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I think it makes perfect sense to update the pro/epilogue to use the current one. Shy of Regex, it may even be a nice way to bring old fx zones up to date.
Cool, speaking of legacy, going to bring back Feedback=No (deprecated) -- Cragster hit that one the other day.

There will be a change in the auto generated files, the existing ones will work just fine.

The cell markers are not needed in the new code, but everything will work fine with those Zones that have them.

"NullDisplay" is replaced with a more sensible definition from an internal coding perspective.

Don't worry, Zones with "NullDisplay" will still work fine.

Code:
RotaryPush7 NoAction
DisplayUpper7 NullDisplay
DisplayLower7 NullDisplay
becomes

Code:
RotaryPush7 NoAction
DisplayUpper7 NoAction NoFeedback
DisplayLower7 NoAction NoFeedback
The one that I think will trip folks up, is the requirement to add NoFeedback statements to existing definitions where there is more than one Action assigned to a Widget and there is a feedback processor.

Multiple Actions that, say, trigger scripts, will be fine, since there is no feedback sent to the control surface.

Can anyone think of anything else that needs to be retained for compatibility ?
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Old 05-29-2024, 10:22 AM   #25980
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Playing around with display setup in Learn.

Workflow is not good.

If you want to swap upper and lower displays, you need to select from 2 different drop downs.

Do we even need to do that ?

I don't recall anyone ever asking to flip the order of param name and param value.

It would simplify the user interface and allow for much less complex code if we state that Autogenerate/Learn puts param name on row 1 and param value on row 2.

If there are more than 2 rows of display, we could say that the second Widget, as in Rotary, RotaryPush, uses the second set of rows (3&4) for display.

Don't forget this is only for Autogenerate / Learn, we can still do anything we want with hand crafted Zones.

So, for a setup that has Rotary, RotaryPush, and Fader, and 2 rows, they would all get Upper and Lower, and there would be a simple checkbox.

When checked, CSI would display parameters for that Widget (e.g. Rotary) that would simply set feedback accordingly -- much easier to wrap your head around, especially for Autogenerate/Learn.

Code:
Rotary3 FXParam 2 RingStyle=Dot
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "Thresh" 
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 2 

RotaryPush3 NoAction
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback

Fader3 NoAction
DisplayUpper3 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower3 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
What do you think ?
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Old 05-29-2024, 11:27 AM   #25981
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That sounds good. Should be nice for the SCE-24 where I might have Rotary (Displays 1/2) and RotaryPush (Displays 3/4) assigned.

Just out of curiosity, are you keeping a running list of changes for when it comes to go-live? Just thinking about what would need to change in the wiki and covering all the various little migration bits and bobs.
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Old 05-29-2024, 12:17 PM   #25982
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That sounds good. Should be nice for the SCE-24 where I might have Rotary (Displays 1/2) and RotaryPush (Displays 3/4) assigned.
Definitely was thinking about the SCE24/C4 when contemplating this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just out of curiosity, are you keeping a running list of changes for when it comes to go-live? Just thinking about what would need to change in the wiki and covering all the various little migration bits and bobs.
Sort of

I'm trying out so many new ideas, it may be better to start from scratch on the Learn Window.

As far as the rest, trying to maintain backward compatibility as much as possible.
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Old 05-29-2024, 03:48 PM   #25983
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DEMO ONLY DO NOT USE FOR PRODUCTION

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Possible fix for the crash Cragster had, thanks Roy for all of your help !

Learn Window is coming along.

You can now enable/disable the param name and param value displays.

Just select a parameter, check/uncheck the Show box(es), and hit Apply.

Don't forget to refocus the FX to see your changes.

Interested in what everyone thinks, so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention, Feedback=No is back so you don't need to change existing Zones to use NoFeedback.
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Old 05-30-2024, 06:36 AM   #25984
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
DEMO ONLY DO NOT USE FOR PRODUCTION

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Possible fix for the crash Cragster had, thanks Roy for all of your help !

Learn Window is coming along.

You can now enable/disable the param name and param value displays.

Just select a parameter, check/uncheck the Show box(es), and hit Apply.

Don't forget to refocus the FX to see your changes.

Interested in what everyone thinks, so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention, Feedback=No is back so you don't need to change existing Zones to use NoFeedback.
Thanks Geoff.
I'm away on vacation this week. I won't be able to give it a go till next week. Looking forward to the new version.
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Old 05-30-2024, 05:03 PM   #25985
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Sometimes I move a lot between TCP and MCP, and the "Ensure Selected Track Visible in both CSI and Reaper" option comes in very handy when "Follow MCP" is configured in CSI.

Only thing I was wondering is if there is a way to prevent CSI from banking when the newly selected track is already in our control surface(s) visible range.

Edit: CSI is not banking, it’s following MCP…
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Old 05-30-2024, 05:32 PM   #25986
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Only thing I was wondering is if there is a way to prevent CSI from banking when the newly selected track is already in our control surface(s) visible range.
I agree, selecting a track with the mouse should not bank the controller if said track is already available on the controller. It should be an option.
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Old 05-31-2024, 03:52 AM   #25987
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Sweet !

The only thing I would question is the use of Shift.

I use Shift all the time to select a number of Tracks.

If Shift is latched on, it would cause unanticipated behaviour on many of the buttons in the Zone definition you posted.

I tend to stay away from Shift as a general modifier for that reason.

Your thoughts ?
FWIW I use shift in a latched way all the time, too.
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Old 05-31-2024, 08:18 AM   #25988
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"SSL UF8 with CSI" user here. Since a week now. Before I was a "X-Touch with DrivenByMoss" user.
Had great help from @drummerboy and @spicytripe and the wiki also is really thorough. Im not where I want to be but the basics are working.

Now, it took me a while to understand that in the fx parameter display you can't just use an encoder and go from bank to bank but it works with pre-fixes. First 8 no prefix, next 8 shift+, then option+, then shift+option+, etcetera.
This works fine when you work with a classic Mackie style controller. But the UF8 doesn't really have an 'option' button. We are now stuck with 'pan' and 'shift' and that's it.

This means that we have only 16 parameters at our disposal. At least as far as I understand. And one of the most used plugins is Pro-Q. Which has like 16 parameters per band. So, the question is: is there an approach where I could work with more parameters on the UF8?

EDIT: The wiki tells me this should work if I use sub-zones. Is there anyone with some sample files?
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Old 05-31-2024, 09:08 AM   #25989
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Originally Posted by earlabs View Post
"SSL UF8 with CSI" user here. Since a week now. Before I was a "X-Touch with DrivenByMoss" user.
Had great help from @drummerboy and @spicytripe and the wiki also is really thorough. Im not where I want to be but the basics are working.

Now, it took me a while to understand that in the fx parameter display you can't just use an encoder and go from bank to bank but it works with pre-fixes. First 8 no prefix, next 8 shift+, then option+, then shift+option+, etcetera.
This works fine when you work with a classic Mackie style controller. But the UF8 doesn't really have an 'option' button. We are now stuck with 'pan' and 'shift' and that's it.

This means that we have only 16 parameters at our disposal. At least as far as I understand. And one of the most used plugins is Pro-Q. Which has like 16 parameters per band. So, the question is: is there an approach where I could work with more parameters on the UF8?

EDIT: The wiki tells me this should work if I use sub-zones. Is there anyone with some sample files?

Have a look at my setup:


I have programmed the 3 Quick Keys at the top to Ctrl, Alt, Option respectively. I have also added a second shift key to the Automation Off button.

For the modifier keys I remapped Global, Cycle, and Click because they keys that are LED-lit by the MCU and so activate an LED on the UF8. That way it's always obvious, which modifiers are currently latching.



Edit: The only MCU commands that turn on the LED of a UF8 switch are
Global
Cycle
Click
Replace
Forward
Rewind
Play
Record

The reason I have used Click is that I have a UF1 as well which I use to toggle the metronome.

I have mapped Replace to ToggleFocusedFxMapping so I always have visual feedback of its status.
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Old 05-31-2024, 12:29 PM   #25990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixR View Post
Have a look at my setup:


I have programmed the 3 Quick Keys at the top to Ctrl, Alt, Option respectively. I have also added a second shift key to the Automation Off button.

For the modifier keys I remapped Global, Cycle, and Click because they keys that are LED-lit by the MCU and so activate an LED on the UF8. That way it's always obvious, which modifiers are currently latching.



Edit: The only MCU commands that turn on the LED of a UF8 switch are
Global
Cycle
Click
Replace
Forward
Rewind
Play
Record

The reason I have used Click is that I have a UF1 as well which I use to toggle the metronome.

I have mapped Replace to ToggleFocusedFxMapping so I always have visual feedback of its status.
Thanks MiXr!!
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Old 06-02-2024, 04:54 PM   #25991
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
DEMO ONLY DO NOT USE FOR PRODUCTION

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Possible fix for the crash Cragster had, thanks Roy for all of your help !

Learn Window is coming along.

You can now enable/disable the param name and param value displays.

Just select a parameter, check/uncheck the Show box(es), and hit Apply.

Don't forget to refocus the FX to see your changes.

Interested in what everyone thinks, so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention, Feedback=No is back so you don't need to change existing Zones to use NoFeedback.
Hi Geoff ,
Just gave it a go . Same thing happened as before. Soon as i focused an FX Reaper crashed
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Old 06-03-2024, 01:20 AM   #25992
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Originally Posted by Cragster View Post
Hi Geoff ,
Just gave it a go . Same thing happened as before. Soon as i focused an FX Reaper crashed
@Cragster, can you detail the exact steps that caused the crash?

If you can detail the steps, I will attempt to recreate the crash.

If I can recreate your crash, I will reach out to Geoff to see if we can resolve your issue.

My assumption is that you are running CSI under Windows 11.
Please correct me if that is not the case.

Cheers,
Roy
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:11 AM   #25993
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Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
@Cragster, can you detail the exact steps that caused the crash?

If you can detail the steps, I will attempt to recreate the crash.

If I can recreate your crash, I will reach out to Geoff to see if we can resolve your issue.

My assumption is that you are running CSI under Windows 11.
Please correct me if that is not the case.

Cheers,
Roy
Hey thanks for your reply.

I didn't do much. All the normal track stuff seemed to work. I selected a track with no FX. I added an FX I already had a map for. (A generated map from the old learn ). Clicked on that FX in the slot that shows FX above the mixer to open it and Reaper instantly crashes.
Now I'm not sure if my files are updated correctly for the 7.0 version but I've been following along and I think I got everything.
I am on Windows 10

Thank you
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Old 06-03-2024, 09:19 AM   #25994
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Originally Posted by Cragster View Post
Hey thanks for your reply.

I didn't do much. All the normal track stuff seemed to work. I selected a track with no FX. I added an FX I already had a map for. (A generated map from the old learn ). Clicked on that FX in the slot that shows FX above the mixer to open it and Reaper instantly crashes.
Now I'm not sure if my files are updated correctly for the 7.0 version but I've been following along and I think I got everything.
I am on Windows 10

Thank you
Could you please post that previously generated map from the old learn.
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Old 06-03-2024, 03:03 PM   #25995
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Ux Learn mode question.

CSI auto generates constructs like this:

Code:
Rotary1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 NoAction
DisplayLower1 NoAction

RotaryPush1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback

Fader1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
As you know the NoAction Actions (in bold) are needed to ensure the controls don't unwittingly control parameters in another Zone, and that the displays blank properly, and don't display parameters from another Zone.

Using the example, all goes well if you "Learn" Rotary1.

The NoActions get replaced by the appropriate Actions:

Code:
Rotary1 FXParam 2
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "Param Name"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2

RotaryPush1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback

Fader1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
So far so good.

But, what if, instead of "Learning" Rotary1, you "Learn" RotaryPush1 ?

Code:
Rotary1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 NoAction
DisplayLower1 NoAction

RotaryPush1 FXParam 2
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "Param Name"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2

Fader1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
You now have 2 feedback paths to DisplayUpper1 and DisplayLower1, not good.

I think the best way to handle this is to replace the NoAction display params:

Code:
Rotary1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback

RotaryPush1 FXParam 2
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "Param Name"
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 2

Fader1 NoAction
DisplayUpper1 FixedTextDisplay "" NoFeedback
DisplayLower1 FXParamValueDisplay 0 NoFeedback
What do you think ?
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Old 06-03-2024, 03:18 PM   #25996
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What do you think ?
That seems like a neat solution

Is there a way that we can decide (during the Learn process) which of the two controls (Rotary/RotaryPush) "gets" the display?

Perhaps the last control learnt has the display assigned to it?
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Old 06-03-2024, 03:49 PM   #25997
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Could you please post that previously generated map from the old learn.
Here are 2 FX zone files .I found that Reaper crashes trying to open an FX with traditional manual mapping as well. Opening any FX i have already mapped crashes things.

I included an FX file that was auto generated (Learned) on the old working learn version and my ReaEQ zone file that i mapped manually .

Both cause crash when opening
Attached Files
File Type: zip VST__#TCrusher__Tracktion_.zip (3.4 KB, 11 views)
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Old 06-03-2024, 04:16 PM   #25998
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That seems like a neat solution

Is there a way that we can decide (during the Learn process) which of the two controls (Rotary/RotaryPush) "gets" the display?

Perhaps the last control learnt has the display assigned to it?
Yup, after the "first Learn", all bets are off, you are then in full manual control -- the "bleed through" problem has been solved, since at least one set of Widgets has been defined.
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Old 06-03-2024, 04:16 PM   #25999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cragster View Post
Here are 2 FX zone files .I found that Reaper crashes trying to open an FX with traditional manual mapping as well. Opening any FX i have already mapped crashes things.

I included an FX file that was auto generated (Learned) on the old working learn version and my ReaEQ zone file that i mapped manually .

Both cause crash when opening
Hmmm...

They look fine at first glance.
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Old 06-04-2024, 03:53 AM   #26000
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Yup, after the "first Learn", all bets are off, you are then in full manual control -- the "bleed through" problem has been solved, since at least one set of Widgets has been defined.
So the first control Learnt gets the display. That's fine
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