|
|
|
04-10-2023, 03:16 PM
|
#521
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut
Just plz,plz, include midi in these wiring schemes.
|
AFAIU, the Container fully supports Midi, as it simply is a complete FX chain inserted at a dedicated point.
-Michael
|
|
|
04-12-2023, 11:00 AM
|
#522
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 753
|
In regards to the "no spaghetti" pleas, I think that the same information can visually be displayed in multiple ways. A simple button click or menu item click could switch between the current container view, nodal/wired view, modular or rack view, faceplate view, or any other view. The main part is the general mechanics be functional, and the display can at some point be optional.
|
|
|
04-12-2023, 11:24 AM
|
#523
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman
In regards to the "no spaghetti" pleas, I think that the same information can visually be displayed in multiple ways. A simple button click or menu item click could switch between the current container view, nodal/wired view, modular or rack view, faceplate view, or any other view. The main part is the general mechanics be functional, and the display can at some point be optional.
|
That is true but the thing is, the UI takes work to do and it appears to not be the favorite type of work for the devs. I think it is unlikely they will create several UIs for the same feature, just because different people like to see it in different ways.
What I think is more likely is that they will create the container and add features in such a way that scripters can easily access and modify the routings and provide whichever GUI they want for it (there will be wire based scripts, rack based scripts etc…)
|
|
|
04-12-2023, 11:49 AM
|
#524
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
|
What's not to like from spaghetti?
|
|
|
04-12-2023, 12:03 PM
|
#525
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis
What's not to like from spaghetti?
|
They are fast carbs, which make you fat.
|
|
|
04-12-2023, 11:44 PM
|
#526
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
When considering consistency, a tree-based structure resembling tracks within tracks (folder levels for tracks + ability to create sends/receives etc).
Also utilizing schematic diagrams, similar to those used for tracks (with some upgrades), would be an optimal choice for ensuring consistency.
This decision appears to be the most consistent approach in my opinion.
|
|
|
04-13-2023, 09:44 AM
|
#528
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 753
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
That is true but the thing is, the UI takes work to do and it appears to not be the favorite type of work for the devs. I think it is unlikely they will create several UIs for the same feature, just because different people like to see it in different ways.
What I think is more likely is that they will create the container and add features in such a way that scripters can easily access and modify the routings and provide whichever GUI they want for it (there will be wire based scripts, rack based scripts etc…)
|
This is exactly what I'd hope for, I'm seeing Sexan is doing, and it makes me almost shed a tear.
Last edited by Ozman; 06-23-2023 at 08:33 AM.
|
|
|
04-13-2023, 01:20 PM
|
#529
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman
This is exactly what I'd hope for, I'm seeing Sexan is doing, and it makes my almost shed a tear.
|
Lol I feel the same about Sexan's script.
It is my hope that the Cockos team will provide the necessary foundation codes for Sexan to enable him to develop an exceptional impressive wiring schematic system for the fx routings.
|
|
|
04-14-2023, 07:25 PM
|
#530
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 855
|
I wonder if Reapers own FX container stuff will enable Sexan to continue his version?
**Attempts to summon Sexan**
|
|
|
04-14-2023, 11:53 PM
|
#531
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
It is my hope that the Cockos team will provide the necessary foundation codes for Sexan to enable him to develop an exceptional impressive wiring schematic system for the fx routings.
|
I don't think there is anything missing (but only Sexan can decently comment on that). The Reaper API should provide all hooks to see and modify the routing (Track and FX, Audio and Midi (including FX parameter modulation), supposedly including the Reaper Control Path hooks with "Learn"ed links to parameters, and Midi Devices).
But the task to do a decently usable tool is utterly complex.
-Michael
|
|
|
04-15-2023, 03:09 AM
|
#532
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Japan
Posts: 765
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
I don't think there is anything missing (but only Sexan can decently comment on that). The Reaper API should provide all hooks to see and modify the routing (Track and FX, Audio and Midi (including FX parameter modulation), supposedly including the Reaper Control Path hooks with "Learn"ed links to parameters, and Midi Devices).
But the task to do a decently usable tool is utterly complex.
-Michael
|
Sexan already commented on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan
Regarding track routing it would need a modification and if new api is sensible enough could be added.
The biggest problem I had with previous FX Container is the audio passthrough which is always present if you uncheck the pins. There is an option to disable passthrough but as default its on and that was making big problems how to present the connection (and of course other limitations) since its disconnectes but audio is still passing.
Anyway maybe in some future but not on any priority list
|
mpl's view on the matter is also here.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=270810
|
|
|
04-15-2023, 03:27 AM
|
#533
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Hmm.
MPL considers:
"ability to natively receive/send audio and MIDI flow from/to some gmem idx memory entry"
Due to the basic concept of the DAW (per track CPU-threads) it is strictly impossible to do "realtime" (i.e. Audio sample time-stamp based) routing via gmem. Hence such considerations are pointless.
Maybe some other parts of his concepts might be worth considering.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 04-15-2023 at 05:27 AM.
|
|
|
04-15-2023, 03:32 AM
|
#534
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
we really need Justin/Schwa's help here.
|
|
|
04-16-2023, 01:51 AM
|
#535
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_r
I wonder if Reapers own FX container stuff will enable Sexan to continue his version?
**Attempts to summon Sexan**
|
Hahaha nice photo.
Super Sexan is great.
but we still don't have a good routing system for fx.
|
|
|
04-27-2023, 01:40 AM
|
#536
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
I wish Sexan will actually talk to Justin and Schwa and tell them what it needs to make it possible for him to create routings for fx.
|
|
|
04-27-2023, 09:07 AM
|
#537
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Leipzig
Posts: 6,621
|
Moving the goalposts, huh?
First, you wanted FXContainers, you got FXContainers.
Now you want FXRouting, which is a different feature altogether.
I personally think, that the current implementation is all you are going to get. Take it or leave it.
|
|
|
04-27-2023, 02:39 PM
|
#538
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meo-Ada Mespotine
Moving the goalposts, huh?
First, you wanted FXContainers, you got FXContainers.
Now you want FXRouting, which is a different feature altogether.
I personally think, that the current implementation is all you are going to get. Take it or leave it.
|
Just to clarify, routings are indeed a crucial aspect of this topic.
The feature that we're discussing, which is a more customizable FX routing system, was actually a part of the original request for FXContainer functionality. In fact, it was the biggest part of the thread and many users, myself included, requested this feature specifically to make parallel routing more convenient and accessible.
While the current FXContainer feature is useful in its own right, it falls short of what we had hoped for in terms of routing capabilities. Adding the ability to see the map and to manipulate of the parallel routings would greatly improve workflow efficiency.
I appreciate the efforts of the developers so far and hope they will continue to improve this feature to better meet our needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman
This is a simple request for a Plugin Container.
It could contain any FX chain as a single FX instance.
As well as provide oversampling for the entire chain/instance.
This would be quite useful for the following:
- Mixing FX chains, FX chains for individual Tracks
- Easier organizing of FX chains, especially when multiple FX are used for actually
one "effect".
- Easily employable oversampling for ANY FX instance or chain (VST and JSFX alike).
- Moving group of FX up and down the FX chain can be made easier, being that any group of FX can be gathered into a single "FX Container" instance.
The GUI of this FX Container can be done in various ways.
I'm thinking, maybe a simple wired view (like Blender's Nodes, Bidule, ImageLine's MiniHost, DDMF's MetaPlugin, MPL's FX Wiring script, and Reaper's own Track Wiring View).
Please consider. I truly believe that adding such an FX container would be a improvement for MANY workflows.
- oz
|
|
|
|
04-27-2023, 11:27 PM
|
#539
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Rather obviously, special purpose (i.e. dedicated to those users who appreciate these) connection-GUI makeups will be a task for helpful script designers.
AFAIU, Reaper provides all functionality allowing for this.
-Michael
|
|
|
04-28-2023, 12:03 AM
|
#540
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Rather obviously, special purpose (i.e. dedicated to those users who appreciate these) connection-GUI makeups will be a task for helpful script designers.
AFAIU, Reaper provides all functionality allowing for this.
-Michael
|
Sexan and MPL clearly said that there are limitations in the foundation, so I'm not sure if it's possible.
|
|
|
04-28-2023, 12:59 AM
|
#541
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
Sexan and MPL clearly said that there are limitations in the foundation
|
Hence a decent request might be to have the appropriate API functionality provided.
|
|
|
04-28-2023, 04:47 AM
|
#542
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Hence a decent request might be to have the appropriate API functionality provided.
|
If it were that simple, I guess Sexan would have already requested it and obtained it, after spending so much time trying to create that script
|
|
|
04-28-2023, 02:29 PM
|
#543
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
|
Unfortunately I don't know what is lacking. so I can't comment / research.
-Michael
|
|
|
04-30-2023, 12:36 AM
|
#544
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Unfortunately I don't know what is lacking. so I can't comment / research.
-Michael
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan
Regarding track routing it would need a modification and if new api is sensible enough could be added.
The biggest problem I had with previous FX Container is the audio passthrough which is always present if you uncheck the pins. There is an option to disable passthrough but as default its on and that was making big problems how to present the connection (and of course other limitations) since its disconnectes but audio is still passing.
|
biggest problem is the passthrough but he also mention that there are other limitations
|
|
|
04-30-2023, 07:40 AM
|
#545
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 4,596
|
Please don't spread misinformation.
What I've posted was the state BEFORE FX feature was even implemented and it was not the reflection on CURRENT STATE of Reaper. THEN there were no parallels, no containers, no feedback loops etc etc (the limitations).
Key word here is THEN and NOW.
Also I've said maybe in SOME future and its not on ANY priority list
Last edited by Sexan; 04-30-2023 at 07:50 AM.
|
|
|
04-30-2023, 11:21 AM
|
#546
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan
Please don't spread misinformation.
What I've posted was the state BEFORE FX feature was even implemented and it was not the reflection on CURRENT STATE of Reaper. THEN there were no parallels, no containers, no feedback loops etc etc (the limitations).
Key word here is THEN and NOW.
Also I've said maybe in SOME future and its not on ANY priority list
|
Please don't be upset with us for being so eager to have this feature.
In fact, I've even made donations a few times to support the development of this feature, to you and to other developers who have attempted it in the past.
I'm glad to hear that there's a chance for this feature to be created, and I hope that it will be given priority in the future. As someone who is passionate about this functionality, I would be more than willing to support it.
|
|
|
04-30-2023, 11:56 AM
|
#547
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 4,596
|
Just wanted to make sure that what I've said is not taken out of the context.
|
|
|
04-30-2023, 11:01 PM
|
#548
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
My apologies, I thought there were still some limitations. Are you saying that the new FX containers now enable us to create it?
|
|
|
05-29-2023, 10:39 AM
|
#549
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
I want to think that the current container is a beginning of something great and I also want to think that it will get some priority as it is a real fun and inspiring to use containers.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 08:49 AM
|
#550
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 377
|
I've been busy integrating Containers into my workflow. Works great, just needs some development. For my money, the parameter controls need to be expanded and become dock-able, separately as a "tear off" palette. A better way of visualizing the parallel routing would also be great.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 11:20 AM
|
#551
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,032
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by UknownSource
My apologies, I thought there were still some limitations. Are you saying that the new FX containers now enable us to create it?
|
I don't think he is.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 11:41 AM
|
#552
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 454
|
Dont even know what this is.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 12:50 PM
|
#553
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
|
Revisiting this after a few months, couldn't make sense of it at first.
Trying to hobble together :
1. A "Parallel Container" Preset, whose contents is parallel-processing the "pre-container" signal
2. Track Control knob to easily "inject" the Container Wet signal into the dry, directly from the mixer. (downmixer plugin)
This is how I did it :
1. Add Container
2. Add Compressor to Container (for example)
3. Set the pins for the Compressor to output on 3/4 instead of 1/2:
4. Add a Channel Mapper-Downmixer
5. Make it look like this :
6. Map the Downmixer 3/4 sliders to Container Parameter
7. Show Container Parameter in Track Controls (note, even if Link 3+4 is engaged, manipulating it with Track Controls unlinks!)
It would blow me away if this was the most efficient way to do this, given that it's a single click in all other DAW containers. Is there a way to capture/automate/simplify this setup?
My main issue is : you have to manually set all the parallel plugin pins to out 3/4, individually, and you can't map both the Channel 3 and 4 sliders "together" to a Track Control. And more generally -- unless I've missed something, is this really what is necessary to create a parallel container?
Thank you, here to learn. Just want a single track control to "inject in" the Parallel Container signal, like other DAWs, and hoping this is possible.
Last edited by ferropop; 06-26-2023 at 05:47 PM.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 01:07 PM
|
#554
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
|
^^ thinking through, the alternative is to :
-make the Container itself output on 3/4
-use a Downmixer underneath the Container, on the channel itself, to inject the parallel signal. At least this way the Container automatically sends all its FX to 3/4.
This is bad for multiple reasons though:
1. You must maintain a Downmixer plugin on the track itself, when it should ergonomically/functionally belong "to the container"
2. You have to manually manage the pins for the Container -- so you have to memorize that Ch 3+4 are no longer available, as they are being used for the Container. There is no indication that this special routing is happening, this super complex situation is completely hidden and relegated to "hopefully you remember!". I am (9/10 times) going to accidentally send a sidechain signal to 3/4 and have it erroneously mix with the container signal.
3. You still can't tie both L and R signal to a single Track Control.
3. This all feels kind of crazy to me
Last edited by ferropop; 06-26-2023 at 05:50 PM.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 01:21 PM
|
#555
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
|
^^^ also this serves to show just how finicky/complex/unreadable the manual management of pins are, and that even with a few simple additions it could be made much more manageable.
Mainly special-use sidechain channels that live Outside of the 3/4, 5/6+ world. "AD-HOC SIDECHANNELS".
Example : instead of using 3/4 or 5/6 for the Container + Downmixer routing, make a New Sidechannel called "Container 1" and use that for the Container/Downmixer combo. Now, you will never ever ever ever accidentally use "Container 1" as a receive unless you intend to, as it's clearly labeled and dedicated to that task.
Wanna do multiple sidechains/param-mods? Instead of having to memorize "15/16 is the Kick parameter-modulating the Frequency Cutoff for ReaEQ LPF" ----- you just make a Sidechannel called "Kick Mod Freq Cutoff" and that's what you send the Kick to, and that's what ReaEQ "listens to" for the Parameter Modulation.
It would also set the groundwork for many of the other FRs involving macros, automatic pin mgmt, etc. Imagine freely being able to "send Kick to modulate this LPF, with a mousedrag" -- this innocent creative thought is currently dead in the water as you investigate "hmmm ok what channels am I using? what channels are free? Ok send Kick to Channel 31/32 of synth, memorize 31/32 as the intended pair when assigning Parameter Modulation, forever"....... like come on haha. If ad-hoc channel pairs were generated, named and assigned automatically, we could have Drag-Drop Signal-To-Parameter modulation.
Last edited by ferropop; 06-26-2023 at 05:52 PM.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 07:47 PM
|
#556
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 202
|
I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?
Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 08:52 PM
|
#557
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 377
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillshaded
I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?
Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
|
Nothing was very well explained. This is the first I've heard of using 3/4 channels.
|
|
|
06-26-2023, 09:50 PM
|
#558
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillshaded
I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?
Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
|
Wet/Dry on the container isn't an "inject the container in parallel", it's a Wet/Dry between Container and No Container.
The only 2 ways I've found are the ones I listed above :
1. Make a container and set all parallel plugins pins output to 3/4, then with a Downmixer (in the container) you inject 3/4 back into 1/2.
or
2. Make a container, set ITS output to 3/4, and inject the container's 3/4 back into 1/2 of the Main Track using a Downmixer on the track (not in the container)
Op.1 is tidier because the downmixer is in the container, but you have to manually set all plugins to output 3/4. Op.2 has a Downmixer plugin nondescriptly taking up an insert on the track, but you don't have to set each plugin to output 3/4...but now 3/4 are unavailable for any other use.
These are both messy.
Last edited by ferropop; 06-27-2023 at 01:23 AM.
|
|
|
06-27-2023, 01:40 AM
|
#559
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 434
|
waiting for the brave scripter who want to make money
please create a wired routing fx container.
|
|
|
06-27-2023, 01:58 AM
|
#560
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 463
|
@ferropop I'm probably missing something, but why don't you put the whole container in parallel ? Using right click on container > "Process selected FX in parallel with previous FX"
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:20 PM.
|