Old 04-10-2023, 03:16 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
Just plz,plz, include midi in these wiring schemes.
AFAIU, the Container fully supports Midi, as it simply is a complete FX chain inserted at a dedicated point.

-Michael
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Old 04-12-2023, 11:00 AM   #522
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In regards to the "no spaghetti" pleas, I think that the same information can visually be displayed in multiple ways. A simple button click or menu item click could switch between the current container view, nodal/wired view, modular or rack view, faceplate view, or any other view. The main part is the general mechanics be functional, and the display can at some point be optional.
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Old 04-12-2023, 11:24 AM   #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman View Post
In regards to the "no spaghetti" pleas, I think that the same information can visually be displayed in multiple ways. A simple button click or menu item click could switch between the current container view, nodal/wired view, modular or rack view, faceplate view, or any other view. The main part is the general mechanics be functional, and the display can at some point be optional.
That is true but the thing is, the UI takes work to do and it appears to not be the favorite type of work for the devs. I think it is unlikely they will create several UIs for the same feature, just because different people like to see it in different ways.

What I think is more likely is that they will create the container and add features in such a way that scripters can easily access and modify the routings and provide whichever GUI they want for it (there will be wire based scripts, rack based scripts etc…)
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Old 04-12-2023, 11:49 AM   #524
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What's not to like from spaghetti?

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Old 04-12-2023, 12:03 PM   #525
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What's not to like from spaghetti?
They are fast carbs, which make you fat.
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Old 04-12-2023, 11:44 PM   #526
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When considering consistency, a tree-based structure resembling tracks within tracks (folder levels for tracks + ability to create sends/receives etc).

Also utilizing schematic diagrams, similar to those used for tracks (with some upgrades), would be an optimal choice for ensuring consistency.

This decision appears to be the most consistent approach in my opinion.
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Old 04-13-2023, 05:45 AM   #527
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Not exactly related but look at the new spaghettis that Sexan cooked for us

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=278176
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Old 04-13-2023, 09:44 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
That is true but the thing is, the UI takes work to do and it appears to not be the favorite type of work for the devs. I think it is unlikely they will create several UIs for the same feature, just because different people like to see it in different ways.

What I think is more likely is that they will create the container and add features in such a way that scripters can easily access and modify the routings and provide whichever GUI they want for it (there will be wire based scripts, rack based scripts etc…)
This is exactly what I'd hope for, I'm seeing Sexan is doing, and it makes me almost shed a tear.

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Old 04-13-2023, 01:20 PM   #529
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Quote:
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This is exactly what I'd hope for, I'm seeing Sexan is doing, and it makes my almost shed a tear.
Lol I feel the same about Sexan's script.

It is my hope that the Cockos team will provide the necessary foundation codes for Sexan to enable him to develop an exceptional impressive wiring schematic system for the fx routings.
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Old 04-14-2023, 07:25 PM   #530
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I wonder if Reapers own FX container stuff will enable Sexan to continue his version?

**Attempts to summon Sexan**

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Old 04-14-2023, 11:53 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
It is my hope that the Cockos team will provide the necessary foundation codes for Sexan to enable him to develop an exceptional impressive wiring schematic system for the fx routings.
I don't think there is anything missing (but only Sexan can decently comment on that). The Reaper API should provide all hooks to see and modify the routing (Track and FX, Audio and Midi (including FX parameter modulation), supposedly including the Reaper Control Path hooks with "Learn"ed links to parameters, and Midi Devices).

But the task to do a decently usable tool is utterly complex.
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Old 04-15-2023, 03:09 AM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I don't think there is anything missing (but only Sexan can decently comment on that). The Reaper API should provide all hooks to see and modify the routing (Track and FX, Audio and Midi (including FX parameter modulation), supposedly including the Reaper Control Path hooks with "Learn"ed links to parameters, and Midi Devices).

But the task to do a decently usable tool is utterly complex.
-Michael
Sexan already commented on this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Regarding track routing it would need a modification and if new api is sensible enough could be added.
The biggest problem I had with previous FX Container is the audio passthrough which is always present if you uncheck the pins. There is an option to disable passthrough but as default its on and that was making big problems how to present the connection (and of course other limitations) since its disconnectes but audio is still passing.

Anyway maybe in some future but not on any priority list
mpl's view on the matter is also here.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=270810
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Old 04-15-2023, 03:27 AM   #533
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Hmm.

MPL considers:
"ability to natively receive/send audio and MIDI flow from/to some gmem idx memory entry"

Due to the basic concept of the DAW (per track CPU-threads) it is strictly impossible to do "realtime" (i.e. Audio sample time-stamp based) routing via gmem. Hence such considerations are pointless.
Maybe some other parts of his concepts might be worth considering.

-Michael

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Old 04-15-2023, 03:32 AM   #534
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we really need Justin/Schwa's help here.
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Old 04-16-2023, 01:51 AM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_r View Post
I wonder if Reapers own FX container stuff will enable Sexan to continue his version?

**Attempts to summon Sexan**

Hahaha nice photo.

Super Sexan is great.
but we still don't have a good routing system for fx.
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Old 04-27-2023, 01:40 AM   #536
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I wish Sexan will actually talk to Justin and Schwa and tell them what it needs to make it possible for him to create routings for fx.
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Old 04-27-2023, 09:07 AM   #537
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Moving the goalposts, huh?

First, you wanted FXContainers, you got FXContainers.
Now you want FXRouting, which is a different feature altogether.

I personally think, that the current implementation is all you are going to get. Take it or leave it.
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Old 04-27-2023, 02:39 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by Meo-Ada Mespotine View Post
Moving the goalposts, huh?

First, you wanted FXContainers, you got FXContainers.
Now you want FXRouting, which is a different feature altogether.

I personally think, that the current implementation is all you are going to get. Take it or leave it.
Just to clarify, routings are indeed a crucial aspect of this topic.
The feature that we're discussing, which is a more customizable FX routing system, was actually a part of the original request for FXContainer functionality. In fact, it was the biggest part of the thread and many users, myself included, requested this feature specifically to make parallel routing more convenient and accessible.

While the current FXContainer feature is useful in its own right, it falls short of what we had hoped for in terms of routing capabilities. Adding the ability to see the map and to manipulate of the parallel routings would greatly improve workflow efficiency.

I appreciate the efforts of the developers so far and hope they will continue to improve this feature to better meet our needs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman View Post
This is a simple request for a Plugin Container.
It could contain any FX chain as a single FX instance.
As well as provide oversampling for the entire chain/instance.
This would be quite useful for the following:

- Mixing FX chains, FX chains for individual Tracks
- Easier organizing of FX chains, especially when multiple FX are used for actually
one "effect".
- Easily employable oversampling for ANY FX instance or chain (VST and JSFX alike).
- Moving group of FX up and down the FX chain can be made easier, being that any group of FX can be gathered into a single "FX Container" instance.


The GUI of this FX Container can be done in various ways.
I'm thinking, maybe a simple wired view (like Blender's Nodes, Bidule, ImageLine's MiniHost, DDMF's MetaPlugin, MPL's FX Wiring script, and Reaper's own Track Wiring View).


Please consider. I truly believe that adding such an FX container would be a improvement for MANY workflows.

- oz
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Old 04-27-2023, 11:27 PM   #539
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Rather obviously, special purpose (i.e. dedicated to those users who appreciate these) connection-GUI makeups will be a task for helpful script designers.

AFAIU, Reaper provides all functionality allowing for this.

-Michael
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Old 04-28-2023, 12:03 AM   #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Rather obviously, special purpose (i.e. dedicated to those users who appreciate these) connection-GUI makeups will be a task for helpful script designers.

AFAIU, Reaper provides all functionality allowing for this.

-Michael
Sexan and MPL clearly said that there are limitations in the foundation, so I'm not sure if it's possible.
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Old 04-28-2023, 12:59 AM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
Sexan and MPL clearly said that there are limitations in the foundation
Hence a decent request might be to have the appropriate API functionality provided.
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Old 04-28-2023, 04:47 AM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Hence a decent request might be to have the appropriate API functionality provided.
If it were that simple, I guess Sexan would have already requested it and obtained it, after spending so much time trying to create that script
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Old 04-28-2023, 02:29 PM   #543
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Unfortunately I don't know what is lacking. so I can't comment / research.
-Michael
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Old 04-30-2023, 12:36 AM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Unfortunately I don't know what is lacking. so I can't comment / research.
-Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Regarding track routing it would need a modification and if new api is sensible enough could be added.
The biggest problem I had with previous FX Container is the audio passthrough which is always present if you uncheck the pins. There is an option to disable passthrough but as default its on and that was making big problems how to present the connection (and of course other limitations) since its disconnectes but audio is still passing.
biggest problem is the passthrough but he also mention that there are other limitations
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Old 04-30-2023, 07:40 AM   #545
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Please don't spread misinformation.

What I've posted was the state BEFORE FX feature was even implemented and it was not the reflection on CURRENT STATE of Reaper. THEN there were no parallels, no containers, no feedback loops etc etc (the limitations).

Key word here is THEN and NOW.

Also I've said maybe in SOME future and its not on ANY priority list

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Old 04-30-2023, 11:21 AM   #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Please don't spread misinformation.

What I've posted was the state BEFORE FX feature was even implemented and it was not the reflection on CURRENT STATE of Reaper. THEN there were no parallels, no containers, no feedback loops etc etc (the limitations).

Key word here is THEN and NOW.

Also I've said maybe in SOME future and its not on ANY priority list
Please don't be upset with us for being so eager to have this feature.
In fact, I've even made donations a few times to support the development of this feature, to you and to other developers who have attempted it in the past.

I'm glad to hear that there's a chance for this feature to be created, and I hope that it will be given priority in the future. As someone who is passionate about this functionality, I would be more than willing to support it.
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Old 04-30-2023, 11:56 AM   #547
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Just wanted to make sure that what I've said is not taken out of the context.
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Old 04-30-2023, 11:01 PM   #548
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My apologies, I thought there were still some limitations. Are you saying that the new FX containers now enable us to create it?
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Old 05-29-2023, 10:39 AM   #549
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I want to think that the current container is a beginning of something great and I also want to think that it will get some priority as it is a real fun and inspiring to use containers.
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Old 06-26-2023, 08:49 AM   #550
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I've been busy integrating Containers into my workflow. Works great, just needs some development. For my money, the parameter controls need to be expanded and become dock-able, separately as a "tear off" palette. A better way of visualizing the parallel routing would also be great.
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:20 AM   #551
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Quote:
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My apologies, I thought there were still some limitations. Are you saying that the new FX containers now enable us to create it?
I don't think he is.
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:41 AM   #552
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Dont even know what this is.
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Old 06-26-2023, 12:50 PM   #553
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Revisiting this after a few months, couldn't make sense of it at first.

Trying to hobble together :

1. A "Parallel Container" Preset, whose contents is parallel-processing the "pre-container" signal
2. Track Control knob to easily "inject" the Container Wet signal into the dry, directly from the mixer. (downmixer plugin)

This is how I did it :

1. Add Container
2. Add Compressor to Container (for example)
3. Set the pins for the Compressor to output on 3/4 instead of 1/2:

4. Add a Channel Mapper-Downmixer
5. Make it look like this :

6. Map the Downmixer 3/4 sliders to Container Parameter
7. Show Container Parameter in Track Controls (note, even if Link 3+4 is engaged, manipulating it with Track Controls unlinks!)


It would blow me away if this was the most efficient way to do this, given that it's a single click in all other DAW containers. Is there a way to capture/automate/simplify this setup?

My main issue is : you have to manually set all the parallel plugin pins to out 3/4, individually, and you can't map both the Channel 3 and 4 sliders "together" to a Track Control. And more generally -- unless I've missed something, is this really what is necessary to create a parallel container?

Thank you, here to learn. Just want a single track control to "inject in" the Parallel Container signal, like other DAWs, and hoping this is possible.
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Old 06-26-2023, 01:07 PM   #554
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^^ thinking through, the alternative is to :

-make the Container itself output on 3/4
-use a Downmixer underneath the Container, on the channel itself, to inject the parallel signal. At least this way the Container automatically sends all its FX to 3/4.

This is bad for multiple reasons though:

1. You must maintain a Downmixer plugin on the track itself, when it should ergonomically/functionally belong "to the container"
2. You have to manually manage the pins for the Container -- so you have to memorize that Ch 3+4 are no longer available, as they are being used for the Container. There is no indication that this special routing is happening, this super complex situation is completely hidden and relegated to "hopefully you remember!". I am (9/10 times) going to accidentally send a sidechain signal to 3/4 and have it erroneously mix with the container signal.
3. You still can't tie both L and R signal to a single Track Control.
3. This all feels kind of crazy to me
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Old 06-26-2023, 01:21 PM   #555
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^^^ also this serves to show just how finicky/complex/unreadable the manual management of pins are, and that even with a few simple additions it could be made much more manageable.

Mainly special-use sidechain channels that live Outside of the 3/4, 5/6+ world. "AD-HOC SIDECHANNELS".

Example : instead of using 3/4 or 5/6 for the Container + Downmixer routing, make a New Sidechannel called "Container 1" and use that for the Container/Downmixer combo. Now, you will never ever ever ever accidentally use "Container 1" as a receive unless you intend to, as it's clearly labeled and dedicated to that task.

Wanna do multiple sidechains/param-mods? Instead of having to memorize "15/16 is the Kick parameter-modulating the Frequency Cutoff for ReaEQ LPF" ----- you just make a Sidechannel called "Kick Mod Freq Cutoff" and that's what you send the Kick to, and that's what ReaEQ "listens to" for the Parameter Modulation.

It would also set the groundwork for many of the other FRs involving macros, automatic pin mgmt, etc. Imagine freely being able to "send Kick to modulate this LPF, with a mousedrag" -- this innocent creative thought is currently dead in the water as you investigate "hmmm ok what channels am I using? what channels are free? Ok send Kick to Channel 31/32 of synth, memorize 31/32 as the intended pair when assigning Parameter Modulation, forever"....... like come on haha. If ad-hoc channel pairs were generated, named and assigned automatically, we could have Drag-Drop Signal-To-Parameter modulation.
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Old 06-26-2023, 07:47 PM   #556
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I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?

Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
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Old 06-26-2023, 08:52 PM   #557
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Quote:
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I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?

Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
Nothing was very well explained. This is the first I've heard of using 3/4 channels.
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Old 06-26-2023, 09:50 PM   #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillshaded View Post
I’m confused, why not just use the wet/dry knob of the container?

Regardless, I did also run into the annoyance of having to manually change the outputs of each FX instance in the chain to 3/4, but in a deifferent scenario.
Wet/Dry on the container isn't an "inject the container in parallel", it's a Wet/Dry between Container and No Container.

The only 2 ways I've found are the ones I listed above :

1. Make a container and set all parallel plugins pins output to 3/4, then with a Downmixer (in the container) you inject 3/4 back into 1/2.
or
2. Make a container, set ITS output to 3/4, and inject the container's 3/4 back into 1/2 of the Main Track using a Downmixer on the track (not in the container)

Op.1 is tidier because the downmixer is in the container, but you have to manually set all plugins to output 3/4. Op.2 has a Downmixer plugin nondescriptly taking up an insert on the track, but you don't have to set each plugin to output 3/4...but now 3/4 are unavailable for any other use.

These are both messy.
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Old 06-27-2023, 01:40 AM   #559
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waiting for the brave scripter who want to make money
please create a wired routing fx container.
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Old 06-27-2023, 01:58 AM   #560
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@ferropop I'm probably missing something, but why don't you put the whole container in parallel ? Using right click on container > "Process selected FX in parallel with previous FX"
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