Since I was getting totally off numbers when using "Ping detect" and manual offsets instead of "Automatic device latency adjustment" I investigated a little. My first thought was correct: as soon as Monitoring FX is bypassed (more on that below) I can achieve phase-correct compensation!
This is one of the projects in which it didn't work (but it likely doesn't matter en détail):
- buffer size 1024
- ReaInsert on channels 11-12 (send and return)
- Monitoring FX with inserts on 3-4 (Sienna 2 instances, PDC @2226) and on 15-16 (ARC3, PDC @37)
FX return was far too late, it added around 2800 samples on top of the "Automatic" setting.
So is it user error (I don't think so) or is it a bug (I hear it humming loudly)?
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
What reaper version are you using and what plugins do you have on the monitoring fx?
If you can supply print screens it will be better for someone to help.
If you can supply print screens it will be better for someone to help.
I actually did, but forgot to upload (got distracted by a dachshund on a turntable)! Thanks for chiming in - screens will be up in 15 minutes.
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
The outboard unit is in bypass, so no delay created on that side.
In the upper right corner have a look at the (un)bypass state of the MonitorFX.
The second ping - with MonitorFX bypassed @ 2323 samples - is the correct one.
Here's the PDC of the MonitorFX chain.
Of course no monitor plugin is interfering with the i/o in question (ADAT 2/3)!
(and don't worry, 5 of 11 FX plugins are in offline mode)
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
Are you sure in Reaper preferences under the Audio - Recording you have the "use audio driver reported latency" enabled ?
i ran a quick test with some outboard and i dont have that reported latency changing. I always use the driver reported latency and in reainsert the automatic device latency adjustment enabled. So, i think there might be something else on your side that is causing the roundtrip to change values.
Are you sure in Reaper preferences under the Audio - Recording you have the "use audio driver reported latency" enabled ?
i ran a quick test with some outboard and i dont have that reported latency changing. I always use the driver reported latency and in reainsert the automatic device latency adjustment enabled. So, i think there might be something else on your side that is causing the roundtrip to change values.
What Reaper version?
Thanks for checking! Yes, it is enabled, v is 6.25 (but it has been faulty before already).
What's in your Monitor FX chain?
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
mostly analyzers, not much that can consume any PDC but i have made the test with some plugins that consume some PDC and the reported latency stays the same.
Do one thing, download reaper, make a portable install (on a different location on your hard drive) and make those tests again.
Maybe there is a buggy script or something running on startup.
PS: install latest Reaper version too. Its on 6.28 at the moment.
Yes, good call! Will try and report back ‒ thanks again!!!
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
These are my startup scripts, not sure if any of them would confuse the delay compensation?
Code:
reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RSe245e22cd9b3948862e8f7b0d04e333b779becb5"), 0) --Run Folder-based item range selection
reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RS71c2e37efbbbcbf101ac5d39d387dc9f9bca0e03"), 0) --Run Folder-based item selection
reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RSe8b8e5597f39805d9413a15bdece7750d5e2365b"), 0) --Run Folder-based Non-contiguous Item Selection .lua
--[[reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RSbe259504561f6a52557d2d1c64e52ef13527bf17"), 0) --Reaticulate_Main.lua--]]
--[[reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RSa56f528da71df1121d11278b5befbaed37bc2785"), 0) --Run LinkZoomAndGrid--]]
reaper.Main_OnCommand(reaper.NamedCommandLookup("_RS67fdf22be642a98b636a7c6eadf233e63b831d46"), 0) --Run Retrospective Record (MIDI)
-- Begin Reaticulate startup stanza (don't edit this line)
local sep = package.config:sub(1, 1)
local script = debug.getinfo(1, 'S').source:sub(2)
local basedir = script:gsub('(.*)' .. sep .. '.*$', '%1')
dofile(basedir .. sep .. 'Reaticulate' .. sep .. 'actions' .. sep .. 'Reaticulate_Start.lua')
-- End Reaticulate startup stanza (don't edit this line)
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
So indeed, ping is correct in Reaper portable[/code]
I have a similar problem with Reainsert and running Reaper portable was not the solution on my projects - Did you get it working on existing projects or a new project (or both)?
__________________
"if DAWs are religions, REAPER is atheism" - The big J
__________________
Windows 10x64 | Asus Z170-a i7, 32GB ram | RME-Digiface USB
Did you get it working on existing projects or a new project (or both)?
No, I need to bypass Monitoring FX first before I ping the outboard. Really annoying, I hope we find the error!
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
Interesting that monitor effects perhaps have something to do with this.
__________________
"if DAWs are religions, REAPER is atheism" - The big J
__________________
Windows 10x64 | Asus Z170-a i7, 32GB ram | RME-Digiface USB
i also have these problems with the ping in reainsert, however nothing changed when trying it in a portable install.
(no monitoring fx, also when having my monitor fx bypassed in my regular reaper install nothing changed to the better)
WIN 10 Reaper 6.29 - testing done with a TRS cable from output directly to input.
the only thing that works right now for me is using RTL Utility (https://oblique-audio.com/rtl-utility.php),
measure the latency, and then setting the manual latency offset in preferences to that value.
which is so annoying(!)
One thing i don't understand is why the PDC reported value is so high for reainsert? see pic (from portable install)
Last edited by din_mentor; 05-25-2021 at 04:59 AM.
One thing i don't understand is why the PDC reported value is so high for reainsert? see pic (from portable install)
That's indeed something I never realized.
Great that you've found a (fiddly) workaround, as did I. But still, there's still something weird going on under the hood with ReaInsert, hope this gets addressed some time.
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
When i have a plugin in the monitoring FX with PDC i get the exact same delay compensation in reainsert with or without it! There has to been something really wrong with your setup guys.
What plugins are you using in the monitoring FX, please provide printscreen if possible.
When i have a plugin in the monitoring FX with PDC i get the exact same delay compensation in reainsert with or without it! There has to been something really wrong with your setup guys.
What plugins are you using in the monitoring FX, please provide printscreen if possible.
Now that's weird: as I've deleted the 2 Siennas, which were the worst PDC offender, as well as the formerly offline plugins (save SonoBus), it works.
Here's what I've got right now, and while it is not (yet) exactly phase-correct, it works for reverbs, which is my main use of ReaInsert anyway.
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
Now that's weird: as I've deleted the 2 Siennas, which were the worst PDC offender, as well as the formerly offline plugins (save SonoBus), it works.
Here's what I've got right now, and while it is not (yet) exactly phase-correct, it works for reverbs, which is my main use of ReaInsert anyway.
maybe offtopic but mixing VST x86 and VST3 can cause issues.
There seems to be a lot going on on the monitoring FX. I believe that´s the cause for wrong PDC calculation on the reaInsert comes from those plugins.
You should be able to set and forget the value for your reainsert PDC for the reverb unit, save it as a preset so it loads always like that. Don't forget to turn off the monitoring FX before calculating the roundtrip.
maybe offtopic but mixing VST x86 and VST3 can cause issues.
That's the new chain which does not give me the kind of issues I had when using only x64 plugins!
Quote:
There seems to be a lot going on on the monitoring FX.
You think so? ARC (32 samples) is for the main speakers (output 15-16), "DIM" is a renamed ReaFir for Fletcher-Munson compensated 12dB attenuation, Monitoring (0 samples) for the mono Auratone (output 14) and HRTF (0 samples) for the headphones (output 3-4). The SonoBus (3-4 as well) is offline most of the time, it's just for a quick check on the smartphone speaker. I have no other option to be honest.
Quote:
save it as a preset so it loads always like that. Don't forget to turn off the monitoring FX before calculating the roundtrip
That's a great idea!
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
i also have these problems with the ping in reainsert, however nothing changed when trying it in a portable install.
(no monitoring fx, also when having my monitor fx bypassed in my regular reaper install nothing changed to the better)
WIN 10 Reaper 6.29 - testing done with a TRS cable from output directly to input.
Yeah I also got to test bypassing monitoring fx - that did nothing. Still Reainsert is unable to do a ping. Frustrating to say the least.
Thanks for the tip on RTL-checker! will try it out
I'm really curious as to why Reainsert/Reaper is misbehaving (user error, faulty plugin etc)
__________________
"if DAWs are religions, REAPER is atheism" - The big J
__________________
Windows 10x64 | Asus Z170-a i7, 32GB ram | RME-Digiface USB
I need to bump this issue/bug up to the top again.
Active "latent" Monitoring FX break the ReaInsert ping on a track.
Simple as that.
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
tl;dw
At which point in the video is the influence of the monitor FX chain mentioned? Thanks!
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
I noticed that it only seems to be users with AMD processors that are reporting the issue.
That would be crazy if there was a correlation!!!
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
In reaper 7.01 still does it. In fact there seems to be an issue with the calculated plugin latency when turning monitoring fx chain off (or any fx chain) and making the plugins actually offline (which fixes it temporarily).
In reaper 7.01 still does it. In fact there seems to be an issue with the calculated plugin latency when turning monitoring fx chain off (or any fx chain) and making the plugins actually offline (which fixes it temporarily).
Ping in reainsert still useless.
In my case it is solved. BUT I have no idea if the culprit was Reaper or a badly coded plugin within the Monitor FX chain, as I replaced pretty much everything (ARC3 > Dirac etc.).
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
In my case it is solved. BUT I have no idea if the culprit was Reaper or a badly coded plugin within the Monitor FX chain, as I replaced pretty much everything (ARC3 > Dirac etc.).
The issues with PDC occur in regular tracks, also. So it is not solved in R7, it also happened before.
When turning off the whole FX chain, reaper does not take away the PDC sometimes. Towards the end of the capture you can tell how reaper has discrepancies between performance meter and track about actual PDC going on. I think this is related with reainsert issues when it is not able to ping. I am using 7.02