Why Justin should marry White Tie :-)

[Kathrin]

Just kidding...:-) Hi, guys (especially Justin), during the last years I have been recording many different bands, and so I became familiar with PTHD, which I could use in a studio of a friend of mine. Now I am looking for possibilities to become self-employed, and some weeks ago a colleague of mine told me about Reaper. Since then I have been working with it, and I am really overwhelmed especially by its routing possibilities, and I’d really like to purchase the commercial license of this wonderful piece of software. But I realized that there might be one problem: the people/bands I’ve been working with seemed to have the impression that if a software doesn’t look absolutely professional my work can’t be absolutely professional as well (I hope you understand what I mean with that, English is not my mothertongue...). So I looked around for possibilities to improve the interface, and in the forum I found the thoughts about White Tie’s interface (http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8350), which looks imo absolutely fantastic and professional!!! But I also found out (I hope I’m right) that this is not possible up to now. What I’d really like to know is whether it will be possible to use somthing like that in the near future, or if this is absolutely unthinkable? I think it would be really fantastic if this absolutely awesome software could be used together with such a nice looking interface, because then it could really become state of the art. I know that this question might give the impression of being a bit superficial, but: girls need some eye candy...:-).

[nicholas]

Kathrin,

Hello and welcome!

I undserstand your concerns but don't think that this is an issue that will be solved by skinning alone. Unfortunately, we're dealing with an uneducated market out vthere (well what else would you expect, we are dealing with musicians )

When I was working full time, I was always being asked by strangers if I had a Pro Tools studio, or Cubase. No matter how good Reaper looks, until and unless Reaper acquires a magic name, it will ever be thus.

In the end, your prospects to succeed will depend more than anything else on your abilities and, as it grows, word of mouth reputation of a satisfied cujstomer base.

Just my 2 cents.

But I do agree that White Tie's visuals are marvelous ...

[alex zonder]

Kathrin, what do these people/bands of yours look like? Just to be sure that they're any good.

[Rednroll]

I don't know if Reaper is Skinable or not as of now. I know you can change the icons and the colors of the Skin. Maybe it's time for some one to make a ProTools HD representive GUI, with the Protools faders, and icons along with the ProTool's colors. These things are all very well possible in Reaper. Additionally, you can change the Splash screen when you start Reaper. So, you can probably get really close to something that "Looks" like ProTools right down to using the ProTools splash screen. Then just work on the basis of a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy. In other words, if people don't ask, then just let them assume it's ProTools...LOL!!

Also Kathrin, we need to have you put a Pin in the Reaper user map. I think you just might be Reaper's first female user!!!

Where's Pipeline to post that link now???

[EgM]

haha, just load up a batch of spectrum analysers with needles everywhere and stuff going up and down and they'll be drooling in your daw screen

[Kathrin]

Hi, Nicholas,
thanks for your encouraging words, and I absolutely agree with you! Nonetheless, I think that this is, especially in the far run, an important feature. I'm sure that I'm not the only one waiting for this (seems like you do , too,), and I'm really curious to know how far things are at the moment... Are you using Reaper professionally? And Alex: those people are just clients, but you know how things are...

[alex zonder]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

with the Protools faders, and icons

like this one for instance?

[Kathrin]

Yupp, looks really gook, thanks, but better would be better... It was not my point to let Reaper look like PT, but it would be fantastic if Reaper looked like Reaper, I mean something really special and professional, and if Reaper looked like White Tie's suggestion... What do you think?

[LOSER]

Kathrin welcome to the forums and maybe one day it'll be fully skinable (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/two-w...eaper-gui.html) .

Edit: BTW, Winamp got also got skinable at some point in it's develpoment...

[Bevosss]

Hi Kathrin, welcome and it's great to finally have a female user.

I recall Justin saying recently on Gearslutz Reaper WILL be skinnable eventually...but it's very much a last priority to finishing the musical aspects of the coding.

However the themes are very customizable as it stands now, you can change the colour scheme drastically to suit yourself, and there's plenty of icons to choose from in the themes forum. If you're keen, you can make your own icons as well.

Hope that helps

[alex zonder]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

Yupp, looks really gook, thanks, but better would be better... It was not my point to let Reaper look like PT, but it would be fantastic if Reaper looked like Reaper, I mean something really special and professional, and if Reaper looked like White Tie's suggestion... What do you think?

I think people who WORK with REAPER would hate to see White Tie's beautifully designed skin instead of the clear and uncluttered view the current GUI gives them.

BTW talking about ProTools, what's so "professional" about its looks? This is IMO a rather tasteless if not amateurish mess:



I can't imagine that a "professional" designer laid hands on that.

[Kathrin]

Hi Alex, that's what I mean, but if your client reads PT in the window bar, they feel home in a professional studio environment, but I'd surely prefer sth. which is more comfortable and looks even better. And White Tie's GUI is imo not cluttered at all but very clear. It's just that I'd relly like to try a user inerface like that (since I'm starting to realize that I'm probably the first female in this forum, this is probably a girls thing, and I know, female sound engineers aren't very common )

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

Also Kathrin, we need to have you put a Pin in the Reaper user map. I think you just might be Reaper's first female user!!!

nah, shes not

look up "Holly Reznor"

[Tallisman]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

Yupp, looks really gook, thanks, but better would be better... It was not my point to let Reaper look like PT, but it would be fantastic if Reaper looked like Reaper, I mean something really special and professional, and if Reaper looked like White Tie's suggestion... What do you think?

That was deliciously put. I agree totally... so it's not just a girlie thang!

Originally Posted by alex zonder

I think people who WORK with REAPER would hate to see White Tie's beautifully designed skin instead of the clear and uncluttered view the current GUI gives them.

some people, would indeed hat to see reaper looking like White Tie's beautiful, inspired and functional vision -- I am not one of those who'd hate it, I'd love it, and buy Reaper liscences as x-mas gifts this year!

Originally Posted by alex zonder

BTW talking about ProTools, what's so "professional" about its looks? This is IMO a rather tasteless if not amateurish mess:

I can't imagine that a "professional" designer laid hands on that.

I agree, PT looks like butt.

Kathrin! Welcome to the forum!

[Kathrin]

OK, good night, I'll hopefully hear from you tomorrow (it's late in central Europe), thx very much for you suggestion so far (I'm hoping for more, of course

[alex zonder]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

I'm probably the first female in this forum, this is probably a girls thing, and I know, female sound engineers aren't very common )

You say it, but I'm not too sure about that. None of the women I know would with regard to their profession cherish opinions or preferences that they themselves would claim to be specifically 'female'. And since we're virtual: who tells me you're a woman and I not a teenager? It makes no difference, in this thread.

But I got a fine idea. We need a PANIC! button in REAPER for audio engineers/producers who work in a studio environment were clients come walking in. As soon as one of the dumber clients enters, hitting the PANIC! button would turn the REAPER screen view into White Tie's flashy skin. It doesn't do a thing but show. It's beautiful. The greatest looks in DAW country. How PRO-FES-SIO-NAL!, the dumbass sighs. And as soon as he'll be gone, it's back to work in the real thing.

Not sure if White Tie will like the idea though. He didn't design the thing for dummies.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

Hi, Nicholas,
... Are you using Reaper professionally? ...

Only semi-professionally these days as I'm officially retired.

But for years I did make my bread and butter from running a studio equipped with Sonar, and all the same issues arose. Like I say it comes from consumer ignorance.

I mean, if you phoned for a cab, you wouldn't say to the cab company, "What make of cars do your drivers have, I'll only travel in a Ford?", but that would be just about as stupid. Personally I'd be far more interested in the driver's record and exprience than the manufacturer of the car.

In the end it comes down to so many things - the musicians' skills, the audio engineer skills, the equipment used, the microphone choice and placement, whether everybody gets along, and so on.

The choice of software for the best result should inevitably be that which the engineer is most comfortable with. I use Reaper now because for me it is far and away the DAW software of choice.

A better sound engineer than me could use any software she chooses and get a better result than I could. A less good sound engineer could not get as good a sound as I do no matter what equipment and software you threw at them.

That's 4 cents now.

[jeffsanders]

Alright Kathrin. Fess up.












Are you White Tie's sister?




(just kidding)

I love Reaper just the way it is. White Tie has my vote for his amazing ReaComp and ReaEQ skins though!!

[Kathrin]

Hi, It seems that I've made myself not absolutely clear (although I like the idea of a panic button...), but I'd also like another UI for myself for working with Reaper, so this is not just to pretend to my clients that I'm working with sth else. I am perfectly capable to use the current UI. Let's get back to my original question: will it be possible in near future to work with another UI implementation? (and, by the way, it's of course not important whether I'm a girlie or not, and that has also nothing to do with it whether we are in cyber space or not...)

[LOSER]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

Let's get back to my original question: will it be possible in near future to work with another UI implementation?

According to the REAPER developer (Justin) yes, but when isn't clear yet, he stated he needs to get functionality and other more importent stuff straight first. C.f.: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1233480-post2.html
Full thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/two-w...eaper-gui.html

[Bevosss]

Well, it will be, but define 'near' future

As I said in an earlier post, it's not a priority for Justin right now, but will be implemented at a later time (of Justin's choosing I guess)

[Kathrin]

Hi guys, thx for all your quick anwers; btw, by next future I mean sth like in the next 3-6 months (but better yesterday)... I'll definitely have to go to bed right now, so good night and sleep well, hope to hear from you tomorrow.

[alex zonder]

Hi guys, don't be fooled.

[scottdru]

Originally Posted by Kathrin

But I realized that there might be one problem: the people/bands I’ve been working with seemed to have the impression that if a software doesn’t look absolutely professional my work can’t be absolutely professional as well

Everytime I hear someone suggest something like this, I am truly boggled.

I am a professional musician (drums), living and working in New York City. Over the years, I have worked with thousands of musicians at every level of the hierarchy of the music business -- from the very bottom of the ladder to some of the very best in the business, including some of the great jazz masters and a number of people who are household names.

The last CD I played on (and also have some engineering credits) that was released indeed had some of the best musicians in the business, some of whom have played on many, many, many recordings (including some well known and classic recordings in various different genres), and the recording itself has been showing up in the "Top 10 Releases of 2006" lists of many world music magazines and websites.

That CD was recorded in many different sessions over a period of a couple of years. The recordings were done in a few different studios as well as some remote recordings, and it was done on quite a few different systems -- Cubase, Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Mackie HDR, and perhaps one or two others.

I can tell you for a fact that NONE of the musicians cared a jot about what software was being used, let alone what it looked like.

Let me tell you what they DID care about (not necessarily in order):

1. Does my instrument sound good in the room?

2. Am I comfortable playing in this room, so I will put in a good performance?

3. Do I have good visual contact with the other musicians?

4. Can I hear myself and the other musicians well in the headphones, and can my headphone mix be balanced properly so that I can feel comfortable and keep a good dynamic balance with the other musicians?

5. Is the engineer technically competent (to avoid interruptions due to technical problems) and responsive to the band's needs?

6. Is the engineer's work flow fast and/or transparent, so that his work does not get in the way of the creative flow of the musicians?

7. Does the recording/end result sound great?

These were ALWAYS the primary factors for the musicians in choosing what engineer and studio they wanted to work with -- NOT what software was being used, and certainly not what the software looked like, FFS! And I can say that this was the case for every single recording session I have ever been involved in.

Further, most of the guys I know here in NYC who are making their living (or large portions of their living) doing advertising jingles and also some stuff for TV and other video say that it is increasingly irrelevant what DAW program you are working with to create the music.

So . . . who the hell are these musicians who are making such a huge stink about what some recording software looks like?

And, if so many musicians are allegedly so concerned about what the recording software looks like, why the hell would anybody have ever bothered with Pro Tools?

And, for that matter, have you ever looked at the instruments of some of the greatest players?

Look at Jaco Pastorius' or Meshell N'DegeOcello's favourite bass, or Stevie Ray Vaughn's or Eddie Van Halen's favourite guitar. You don't see these people running out to get their favourite axe refinished when it starts to look rough. Or look at any great jazz master's saxophone, etc. When's the last time you saw one of these guys playing a freshly finished horn?

What the musician cares about first and foremost is the sound and playability of his instrument, and likewise I think any half decent musician would be more concerned that the recording engineer's "instrument" sounds great and facilitates the engineer's best work.

And perhaps if an engineer gets such questions from musicians about the DAW he or she chooses to work with, the engineer should explain his or her choice of DAW to them in exactly those terms.

[alex zonder]

Now we're talking, scottdru!



But to be honest, I have the impression our Kat isn't professionally working with musicians at all...

And the girlie talk tells it all: she's a he.

[scottdru]

Heh . . . yes, to tell you the truth I was beginning to get the same impression, Alex.

[Bevosss]

Originally Posted by alex zonder

And the girlie talk tells it all: she's a he.

Probably...

Shouldn't matter an iota in this day and age anyway

[alex zonder]

Originally Posted by Bevosss

Probably...

Shouldn't matter an iota in this day and age anyway

But fooling people for no good sake still does...

[Bevosss]

No argument there...kinda pathetic really

[Tallisman]

not only is she a he, but he is a mass murdering horse thief! I knew it. Can't you tell by the ton of her... his writing and his vernacular?

the lynching will take place at dawn. 2 hours after she wakes.

[nicholas]

scottdru says it all ... almost.

I'd just add that the other thing that matters is first impressions.

What's the gut-feeling people get when they walk into your studio? the layout, the gear, its presentation, its facilities, and indeed the first time they meet and talk to you.

If those things are all bad, then maybe a daggy looking GUI interface will make things worse. But a you beaut screen display isn't going to save you either.

And if they're all good, then the last thing that's going to worry anybody is how your software is skinned.

Oops! I'm up to 6 cents already ....

[Jae.Thomas]

its a well known fact that girls get much more attention on forums then guys, due to the shortage of said sex.

but who knows?

as far as presentation of your studio, have you ever viewed some of the studios in tape op?

not all of them look amazing -- just have good stuff in em

let your recordings be the guide to your quality!

[pipelineaudio]

Im looking in my official book to see just what "professional " looks like exactly

Being that reaper is uite possibly the first software desinged actually by actual audio engineers, I would say that whatever reaper looks like would define what looks professional.

[pipelineaudio]

yes Im quite often cynical like that

[James HE]

The only thing that I feel is lacking a professional look in REAPER is the waveform background/foreground issue. Really you can't often tell WTF is going on in crossfades sometimes, things just dissapear with some custom colors, and I will never just get used to the background and foreground swap when an item is selected. It makes having the waveforms custom colors useless to me. I need a better visual indication. If the background color is 1 and the foreground color is 2, it's hard to immediatly tell what is selected. 1+2=3 2+1=3

Some threads that need bumping.
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8295
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7355

oh.. another thing. The FX windows need to go on a diet. The vertical list is a kludge. The whole window could be the size of a window floated fx window if there was toolbar with arrows on the side that youe could navaigate to the next plugin. Yes I said toolbar. Look at a Vegas plugin window. Elegance.

[LOSER]

Originally Posted by James HE

The only thing that I feel is lacking a professional look in REAPER is the waveform background/foreground issue. Really you can't often tell WTF is going on in crossfades sometimes, things just dissapear with some custom colors, and I will never just get used to the background and foreground swap when an item is selected. It makes having the waveforms custom colors useless to me. I need a better visual indication. If the background color is 1 and the foreground color is 2, it's hard to immediatly tell what is selected. 1+2=3 2+1=3

You mean the "right click - custom track color thing", right? - If so I agree, but it's not the color swap (BkgC/FgC) that bugs me, but the fact that the background color isn't the forground color, when selected, but a brighter version of it.

So here is a possible solution for it (right I'm not just bitching but trying to provide solutions too), maybe there could be a set of 5 to n custom colors definable in the THEME, so the user would still have full control over wether and how to color the items, and there selection state etc... (Just an idea and sorry for hijacking the thread).

[jdier]

Am I the only person who does not think there is a problem with the interface? I wish there were some graphicals for some of the plugs, but in general all I really care about is functionality.

Give me some more Zooming and routing options, and I am good.

[Tallisman]

Originally Posted by jdier

Am I the only person who does not think there is a problem with the interface? I wish there were some graphicals for some of the plugs, but in general all I really care about is functionality.

Give me some more Zooming and routing options, and I am good.

have you even read this thread?
I really don't think that you are the only one.

[Jae.Thomas]

if one really does search through the forums about the interface, you will find many many people feeling just fine about it, loving it even, including me. Usually people get vocal to complain or criticize, not to praise.

Sad but true.

I would say there are plenty more people who are happy with reapers interface than those who need a change.

[True North]

The GUI comes up with almost EVERYONE new to this site (myself included)

I have no idea why someone doesen't make a GUI commentary sticky to read as follows;

"I know you may not like the GUI (Graphical User Interface)that Reaper currently offers. Truth is some users love it while others hate it. Yes we have seen White Ties desgin and we think it looks great.

The reality is that we are currently focusing on the functionality of Reaper. When we are satisfied with the general functionality of the program we plan to redesign and spruce up the GUI.

For the time being please know that we are aware of your concerns/critiques but the GUI will not be our focus right now, but will be sometime in the near future. When we are ready to work on the GUI we will make an announcement on this thread, letting everyone know about our intentions.

Until then please make use of the GUI as it is and feel free to leave your ideas for the GUI on the Feature Request forum. Thanks"

Everyone get so hot and bothered over the GUI on this program. It really bugged me at first because I wasn't sure if anyone had any intentions to make a change to the look of the program. Had I known what I had written above at the outset it would have saved me and I am sure many others a lot of wasted time. Just a thought, YMMV!!

Cheers!