Old 03-19-2019, 07:29 AM   #1
twistedneck
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Default Amen break

Help needed.

I have zero drum skill, and at my age (49) I probably wont ever aquire any. I sat down for hours trying to make my own Amen type drum breaks and it just sounds horrible.. even the best ones sound nothing like my pals who actually own a kit and they make it so easy.

Sat there and watched, slowed way down note for note the drums in Harlem's South of France song and it sounds OK I guess but nothing good or even great.

A Advice?
B please send me a midi clip that I can use to see what the midi notes look like (Sitala Ok, or I can use Battery 4, or whatever you recommend)

C is there something out there that will teach me the break? I don't want to download it i want to midi it. I've seen the tables and they are OK, but I have yet to see real reaper midi Amen's.

D. If you had a sounds.com account, is there a kit or set of samples you recommend for Alice Cooper drums? Seems that's what my pals want to play and we don't have a drummer and I suck as an imposter producer at making drums.

Thanks you all.

Edit: Found this seems ALMOST like what I need if they were the actual reaper midi lines.

Edit 2: HOLY SHIT THEY ARE THE MIDI NOTES!!!!

http://www.simonv.com/tutorials/drum_patterns.php

Last edited by twistedneck; 03-19-2019 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #2
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There are tons of free MIDI drum files/loops out there. If you can find something you like in them, just download one of the free Drum VST instruments & load the MIDI into a track in Reaper with the free drums of your choice in the FX window.

Steven Slate Drums 5 is available with one excellent free kit, Sennheiser`s free Drummic`a which runs in the free Native Instruments Rompler, MTPowerDrums 2 is also free and actually comes with a fair few MIDI phrases. I seem to recall there was a fairly limited freebie from Toontrack`s EZDrummer available, too.

All of these are as good as most of the pay-to-use options out there, too.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
C is there something out there that will teach me the break? I don't want to download it i want to midi it.

^lolz-sure-listen to it,over n over until you become it
you know the original artists tracking yeah?
well a lot of drum patterns are easily duplicated--but what is actually very very difficult to replicate sometimes is the 'recording tones'-- even if you duplicate the exact drum kit,hit for hit-- there still lays the 'problem' of duplicating the recording environment+each players own groove-and that plays a big part in older 70's style recordings..or any..

suggest pop the break into reaper,make that a folder track,and pop a midi item below,so you can view and transcribe that way-easy peezy..sorta
trick to duplications sometimes is speed-- go slow and walk stuff,before you pick up the paces and go at running speeds..musically.>?
+as in life,repetitions are a must,if not natural to anything..1 must put in the efforts-to reap some kind of rewards>?
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:50 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
There are tons of free MIDI drum files/loops out there. If you can find something you like in them, just download one of the free Drum VST instruments & load the MIDI into a track in Reaper with the free drums of your choice in the FX window.

Steven Slate Drums 5 is available with one excellent free kit, Sennheiser`s free Drummic`a which runs in the free Native Instruments Rompler, MTPowerDrums 2 is also free and actually comes with a fair few MIDI phrases. I seem to recall there was a fairly limited freebie from Toontrack`s EZDrummer available, too.

All of these are as good as most of the pay-to-use options out there, too.
Ok, I now have it sounding fantastic (albeit a touch robotic but still..) I bought the Komplete 12 thing so there is this battery kit called Garage kit and its got a lot of toms that are slightly different pitches and it seems to be a lot more real sounding since the hits on the same drum are not exact either.

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^lolz-sure-listen to it,over n over until you become it
you know the original artists tracking yeah?
well a lot of drum patterns are easily duplicated--but what is actually very very difficult to replicate sometimes is the 'recording tones'-- even if you duplicate the exact drum kit,hit for hit-- there still lays the 'problem' of duplicating the recording environment+each players own groove-and that plays a big part in older 70's style recordings..or any..

suggest pop the break into reaper,make that a folder track,and pop a midi item below,so you can view and transcribe that way-easy peezy..sorta
trick to duplications sometimes is speed-- go slow and walk stuff,before you pick up the paces and go at running speeds..musically.>?
I have become one with it.. and it has now made me insane. obsessed with this one tiny part of reaper and I will not stop! Sounds very good now however, there is light at the end of the tunnel I was using Sitala free and its good but Battery seems a lot more powerful.
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:13 AM   #5
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Ok, I now have it sounding fantastic (albeit a touch robotic but still..)

heh-care to share an example? have eyes+ears for this,as it's a firm fav and people have tried this process,multiple ways..heh
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:25 AM   #6
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heh-care to share an example? have eyes+ears for this,as it's a firm fav and people have tried this process,multiple ways..heh
I'll put it up after work today.. keep in mind this is my first one ever.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #7
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Blimey!
Komplete 12 !!!!

Big Bucks, but you DO get a bunch of cool stuff.

I used to own Battery 3 but frankly there are much better drums within Komplete, so have a good look around before you commit to the (slightly robotic) stuff you found. You may already have something that`ll do the job better for you.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:11 AM   #8
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heh-that's a long day you got there m8--maybe it is all 1 day afterall..when does 1 day,cease to exist,and another appear?
^it's a mix and blend trick is'nt it..
not sure about battery or it's capabilities,but after picking up strike2 for a single squid..can't complain--it's got some really thought_out functioning+features imo..the 'complexity' editing is awesome,as it's switching midi patterns on the fly=niiiice.
between strike2+dr.octorex,nn19,nnxt,kong+emux3 and some dooper timeline/arrange area editors..1 will find a heap of 'power',function+sonic toolings..
tbh with reaper alone,this type of editing and sonic scope,can be a very daunting prospect..not easy,or many many clicks away..
some tools just make music/noise making a joy+fun..not too complex,not too silly...just 'right' =goldilocks syndrome
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:28 PM   #9
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I made these back in 2007 for Addictive drums v1. Includes midi files and AD1 presets.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/35926/J%20...%20Presets.rar
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:54 PM   #10
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Shame it aint for AD2. Does it still work in AD2? Nevermind. D/L`d it to try anyway. Thanks!

edit aha! Just un-rar`ed it & yep it`ll work.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:32 PM   #11
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Default Clip of my hommade Amen Break

I put this on sound cloud.. its bad... I do fully get that but it was asked for

https://soundcloud.com/jeff-check/se...rums-in-reaper

Ya'll were right, with Native I have a zillion drum kits available I had no idea.

PS. do not let the playlist keep going after the drum stuff.. its not meant for human ears!
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:43 PM   #12
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heh-hey that's not baad..
chkchk thisout ok..flick to like 4min42 for amen brother>



programming is'nt really much different,only in the methods used imo..
for eg:a sampled library can still be rerecorded back through a certain mic setup,for an almost certain convoluted tone..
drumkit thru cabs,sims and other special fx can really sound great..imo. =)
it's even nicer when they come as hq standard,onboard fx and tone modifiers..heh
the winstons_ definitely had a unique recording 'tone',and each record cut would also be a tiny variation of the mastered plate!
goodstuffz!
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
heh-hey that's not baad..
chkchk thisout ok..flick to like 4min42 for amen brother>



programming is'nt really much different,only in the methods used imo..
for eg:a sampled library can still be rerecorded back through a certain mic setup,for an almost certain convoluted tone..
drumkit thru cabs,sims and other special fx can really sound great..imo. =)
it's even nicer when they come as hq standard,onboard fx and tone modifiers..heh
the winstons_ definitely had a unique recording 'tone',and each record cut would also be a tiny variation of the mastered plate!
goodstuffz!
Damn Bri1 I had no clue the Amen was only two kick drums at slightly different tune and one snare and a cymbal. I was adding a bunch of Toms. I sounded OK damn I guess some of those kicks sounded like Toms to me.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:23 AM   #14
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I had no clue the Amen was only two kick drums at slightly different tune and one snare and a cymbal.

heh-yep...some players make some trackings sound and look deceptively easy-some is just complicated,both in level of skill+the way the recorded tones are produced..
a well known + well loved piece may have been a single mic,in a single room,with a single player going through a very basic amps with basic 4/8 track recording setups....while another times,a whole massive console+grouped players record via mega processing+fx chains+equipments,giving wide variations in the final printed masters...
patterns are plenty..lot of people have skills to play the patterns..after that,the recording kit decides on the outcomes..eh?
fwiw-always admired the funky drummer..especially the long version's ending.... <that shyte is tight!

will listen if you make another attempt,as i feel this time,you will nail it!!
being armed with extra feedbacks!
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:13 AM   #15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lixWpax-6qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3FqkDrhuLc
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
heh-yep...some players make some trackings sound and look deceptively easy-some is just complicated,both in level of skill+the way the recorded tones are produced..
a well known + well loved piece may have been a single mic,in a single room,with a single player going through a very basic amps with basic 4/8 track recording setups....while another times,a whole massive console+grouped players record via mega processing+fx chains+equipments,giving wide variations in the final printed masters...
patterns are plenty..lot of people have skills to play the patterns..after that,the recording kit decides on the outcomes..eh?
fwiw-always admired the funky drummer..especially the long version's ending.... <that shyte is tight!

will listen if you make another attempt,as i feel this time,you will nail it!!
being armed with extra feedbacks!
Ok now that I know more I spent about 4hrs not having shit for luck making different top tones and different snare hits, etc.. that are all slighty different but there is also the velocity factor and then how you can tune each drum in battery (or whatever) and totally change too much of it and get lost. its going to be a few days for me to figure this out.

That was so tight work on the drums from the vid. watched it a bunch of times.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:51 PM   #17
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Black drums too - hell there are not two kick drums just one and it BARELY sounds different.

Was it me or did that black coated kit sound spectacular?
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:14 PM   #18
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its going to be a few days for me to figure this out.

That was so tight work on the drums from the vid. watched it a bunch of times.

videos can be pukka..heh-- + i think the real bonus is realizing how some recordings can sound very 'buzy'- when actually a lot are very simplistic..it's them subtle grooves,dynamics and resonances a kit can provide giving the characters...the purdie shuffle came from the character-like a lot of 'play styles' have..
with modern music there is kind of a mexican standoff going on.. on the 1 side we have the perfection seeking humans,who play their heart/soul out for others enjoyments--then we have the robotic armies..the machines..the machines that need no pay,do not knock off early,go out getting drunk/partying for days on end,and sometimes needs todo 20 takes to get_it_right!? what..
it's a no brainer for some,but the machines can hold their own..imo (with considerated human programming)
the quite astonishing speed of ai learning..is ...next gen stuff.??
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:15 AM   #19
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If you want to hear some serious grooves, the MIDI that goes along with the Soul EZX is a mind blower to anyone not versed in the wotk of James Brown`s 2 fave drummers.
But of course you would have to get AT LEASST EZDrummer lite and the EZX to be able to use it.

As far as simplicity is concerned, watch Bernard Purdie doing the Purdie shuffle on youtube. Looks deceptively simple till yo tery and reproduce it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1j1_aeK6WA
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:09 AM   #20
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If you want to hear some serious grooves, the MIDI that goes along with the Soul EZX is a mind blower to anyone not versed in the wotk of James Brown`s 2 fave drummers.
But of course you would have to get AT LEASST EZDrummer lite and the EZX to be able to use it.

As far as simplicity is concerned, watch Bernard Purdie doing the Purdie shuffle on youtube. Looks deceptively simple till yo tery and reproduce it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1j1_aeK6WA
i have no issue getting. Even EZDrummer after April 15th (tax day in the USA. ugh.

https://www.toontrack.com/midi-packs/

thoughts? to get me started w a bit more midi drum understanding?

i’ve been cranking Reaper to 1/132 midi grid resolution and also working w velocities. the book tells me beats 2 and 4 are demanding more emphasis. also my real drummer pals are saying my drums need to come in at the last possible second something about getting behind the beat?





thanks for the awesome support. Reaper is killer i’m not going anywhere can’t wait for some new skins but that’s about it
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:36 AM   #21
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thanks for the awesome support. Reaper is killer i’m not going anywhere can’t wait for some new skins but that’s about it
heh-lolz awesome,no problemz,all are welcomed,for free,including any dark ragamuffinz..

try a 3,going onto,4p rule= practice,patience,persistence=perfection?
if your using samplers or resynthesis,or plain synthesis-1 might find good pleasurez with amp+filter controls..with drums,filtering (or an actual filter envelope) can be an awesome effect applied to drum hit velocitiezzz...
filters can act as a kind of volume+expression in 1 motion..
besides,if your hanging out with some live kit drumming palz>? where are they falling short here!? is there none of them,that can actually perform this 1 beat-in just 1take?!
lolz...
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by twistedneck View Post

thoughts? to get me started w a bit more midi drum understanding?
I had the extreme good fortune decades ago to work in a band that got some drum tracks programmed/played in by Larry Landin. Never actually spent any time with him, but his MIDI tracks were pretty much how I learned about how drummers make grooves work.

Unfortunately your amen break is a long way from the meat and potatoes stuff I started learning to do MIDI on!

Get ready to either buy a bunch of MIDI files and searching for the ones you like or doing it the hard way, which ends up being the easy way. I now play drums (badly) into a Roland E-kit and then edit out my mistakes in Reaper afterwards, but at least I can get the groove I want going right away.

I`ll see if I can find any of the stuff I used to learn on and point you at it if you like.
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