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Old 05-03-2007, 02:08 PM   #1
miklogik
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Default ReaNinjam Tempo/Midi Sync a possibility? Non-Session mode

Would it be possible, as a future feature, to sync/slave Reaper client tempo to the Ninjam server tempo, using the ReaNinjam plugin? Or does the method of delayed jamming that Ninjam uses make that an unlikely possibility?

Last edited by miklogik; 05-03-2008 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Added non-session mode to post to clarify as per stringyd's comment.
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:05 PM   #2
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No takers eh?

I would have thought that it would be a popular request.

I've done several jams with ReaNinjam and I love it! Would be nice to be in sync with the other players for drum machine and loops.
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:19 PM   #3
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if setup up right ninjam and reaper do sync
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIGHTCHILD View Post
if setup up right ninjam and reaper do sync
Would you mind elaborating?
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:36 AM   #5
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I just tried now and couldn't get them to sync... what am I doing wrong?
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:56 PM   #6
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One would think that when inventing such a VST plugin that syncing the tempos is essential to getting any tempo-based VST/Rewire instruments to also sync. Reaper controls the tempo sync of my instruments, but how do I get reaNINjam to control the Reaper tempo?

Who the !@#$ knows?

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if setup up right ninjam and reaper do sync

Jerk - tell us HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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Old 06-06-2007, 06:14 AM   #7
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I think the original question here was asking if you can sync the tempo of the metronome in Ninjam NORMAL mode with the metronome/and/or/syncedloops in REAPER. The above reply appears to describe SESSION mode which I think this thread is not origially about.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:21 PM   #8
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Right now, you can set the Reaper BPM to match the server's BPM and press spacebar on beat 1 to start the transport. Not very friendly and it might take a few tries, but it works. Turn on both metronomes while starting to make sure you've got it pretty close.
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Old 06-07-2007, 05:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvollrath View Post
Right now, you can set the Reaper BPM to match the server's BPM and press spacebar on beat 1 to start the transport. Not very friendly and it might take a few tries, but it works. Turn on both metronomes while starting to make sure you've got it pretty close.
This is precisely what people don't want to do......

Basically, what people want, is upon connection to the server, the Ninjam metronome change the reaper (and every other software's) tempo to match. When they press play, it will start at, say, the beginning of a Ninjam interval, or with the next beat of the metronome.

The only concern of this, of course, is that if people are off-timing with the metronome (consistently speaking, playing between ticks of the metronome) then this doesn't work.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:05 PM   #10
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I totally agree with FingerSoup. That would really rock!
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:14 AM   #11
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Need to get a louder drummer to stop people being off timing

I don't think a VST can control the host tempo, only ask the host what the current tempo is.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:00 PM   #12
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Its tricky as u have 1 tempo for all so it snot like u can stop and start the ninjam tempo to sync it.

But I have a suggestion for any good programmers out there, they could possible have it start on every 1st beat.
So if started the clock and start would happen when it loops the bpi.

Its most likely been thought of this way but maybe if I say it then a smart programmer will get an urge to implement it.

Now embrace the happiness, go forth into the Servers of NINJAM...
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FingerSoup View Post
Basically, what people want, is upon connection to the server, the Ninjam metronome change the reaper (and every other software's) tempo to match. When they press play, it will start at, say, the beginning of a Ninjam interval, or with the next beat of the metronome.
I'd like to mention that I am incredibly impressed with Reaper and very happy to have the Reaninjam option...

Yes this is what I had in mind. Basically, at the moment, with Reaninjam, if you play anything click/tempo/loop based, the tempo is determined by your DAW, not the Reaninjam server tempo. I realize that using the Session Mode (which was not available when I started this thread) allows for proper timing, which is also great, but of course not a "realtime" jamming mode, so I'm still interested in syncing in the standard mode.

I'm still a little hazy if it is "possible" (ie. if someone were to program it) to set the DAW tempo to the tempo of a plugin (reaninjam) or not with the VST / Reaper architecture...

Thanks for the feedback
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:39 AM   #14
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I always thought that only the tempo is important. See:

This is the timeline in the "loop":
Code:
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
Does it matter if it looks like this?:

Code:
3  4  5  6  7  8  1  2
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
The whole thing is constantly 2 bars delayed (or repeated), so after the first 2 bars everyone should be "in sync" as long as the "real" tempo is the same as NINJAM's tempo.

So basically you can start the beat/sequence/whatever anytime you want - just turn down the sound of the metronome :-)
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3mph View Post

The whole thing is constantly 2 bars delayed (or repeated), so after the first 2 bars everyone should be "in sync" as long as the "real" tempo is the same as NINJAM's tempo.

So basically you can start the beat/sequence/whatever anytime you want - just turn down the sound of the metronome :-)
While the tempo in Reaper might be set to 100bpm and the tempo in Ninjam is also set to 100bpm, without manually pressing play in reaper at the exact moment of a beat in ninjam, the sequences won't be in sync.

We'd like the tempo/click to slave to Ninjam, ie. all beats occur at the same moment both on server and client.

This would probably require it syncing to the start of the Ninjam "interval". When you press play in reaper, it would wait until the ninjam interval starts, then start playing - at the same tempo/bpm and with the beats matching. Lets say the "interval" was set to 4 bars at 100 bpm. If you place a four bar drum loop in reaper, set the 4 bar region to cycle, connect to ninjam, and hit play, the idea is that it would wait until the 4 bar "interval" begins, then it would start to play, and it would repeat every 4 bars, in sync with the server tempo and interval.

It would come in handy for other things too, such as BPM synced echo or LFO.

Another thread suggests the same thing, with some other good related additions:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9691
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Old 04-20-2008, 02:05 AM   #16
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Default What about an audio sync?

I'm really not quite up to speed on Ninjam yet, but wouldn't it be easier to write a Reaper (Cockos plug-in?), routine whereby when Reaper hears the metronome it syncs to the 1st beat (like a CV gate), so that at least Reaper could be set to the same BPM and be started at the beginning of a bar - then you could mess with BPI and your bar or metronome settings to achieve a more accurate "sync"? This could be gated to only hear the first beat of the bar, or course. I've had a quick scan of the web, but can't find a cv gate emulator available - but then why would anyone need one; 'til now.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:31 AM   #17
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Well I heard recently and it makes perfect sense, that if u use rewire and start reaper it auto sync with ninjam and then what you using through rewire should sync too.

I can't confirm reaper auto syncs with ninjams met but I'm going to try right now.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMc View Post
Well I heard recently and it makes perfect sense, that if u use rewire and start reaper it auto sync with ninjam and then what you using through rewire should sync too.

I can't confirm reaper auto syncs with ninjams met but I'm going to try right now.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here... is this for the standalone ninjam? Why would you need rewire for the built-in Reaninjam?
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:38 AM   #19
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There are some ports of NINJAM that have midi clock but I Know CubaseSX doesn't support it. But a way around would be to use a midi loopback and any software that would pickup the ninjam clock code, then allow you to output a compatible time code. Then this could be picked up in cubase sx or simular which do not support the midi time format. I think the NINJAM ports output old midi time code and cubase uses newer, it used to use old. Maybe REASON picks up old time code and when rewired to cubase will allow cubase to sync to ninjam. Anyway I'm blah'ing out some info in the hope someone knows or can work a solution from all the info here.

With the Reaninjam question u asked, if reaper sync'd with reaninjam then reaper can be rewired to cubase and when reaper plays cubase does and they stay clocked together. If not rewired people would still be able to sync from reaper to other aplications via midi time codes.
So this is what I meant when I said if Reaper sync'd with reaninjam then rewired application would sync to reaper.

So thats what I meant Mere Mortal. :P

PS: one thing to note is we don't all hear the Metronome at the same time, easy way to test it, sync something with another metronome to ninjam manually, disconnect, count 3 seconds reconnect and even though whilst ninjam is disconnects u lose the met, your other met will still be going keeping time then when u reconnect both mets will be out. This shows that it is mostly likely possible for proper sync to be achieved though rewire or midi time code.
Now all we need is some Massively Intelligent Being on the Planet Earth to program it, oh actually just like Justin. :P
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Last edited by AndyMc; 05-01-2008 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMc View Post
if reaper sync'd with reaninjam
That's the key, it doesn't at the moment. My originating question was asking if it is possible, within Reaper using Reaninjam. Rewiring it to Cubase or the standalone ninjam is a whole other issue.

Perhaps it's only audio that is streaming from the server, with no timecode to speak of, which would make it difficult/impossible to sync.

Probably only someone with actual knowledge of the coding of Reaninjam would be able to answer the question, without speculation.
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Old 05-03-2008, 12:45 AM   #21
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Let me say it again.

The problem with ReaNinjam syncing the host to an external time source is exactly that. The VST protocol used by ReaNinjam doesn't have that concept. (Of course, Justin could hack the linkage between Reaper and ReaNinjam, as it's a Reaper-only plugin.)

(Hence the suggestion from others of using a standalone NINJAM client and ReWiring to it, as ReWire does have the concept of syncing.)
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Old 05-03-2008, 11:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
Need to get a louder drummer to stop people being off timing

I don't think a VST can control the host tempo, only ask the host what the current tempo is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
Let me say it again.

The problem with ReaNinjam syncing the host to an external time source is exactly that. The VST protocol used by ReaNinjam doesn't have that concept. (Of course, Justin could hack the linkage between Reaper and ReaNinjam, as it's a Reaper-only plugin.)

(Hence the suggestion from others of using a standalone NINJAM client and ReWiring to it, as ReWire does have the concept of syncing.)
Thanks, you seem to be certain of this, which is what I was looking for - your original post seemed more speculative.

I appreciate the rewire/standalone information as well, although it may belong in it's own thread, for people searching for information, given that this thread title and question were Reaninjam exclusive.

Last edited by miklogik; 05-03-2008 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:42 PM   #23
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There is a port of NINJAM by DarkGM which has midi time clock.
If someone used this to sync then it should be possible but Cubase I know doesn't support the mtc it outputs.
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miklogik View Post
Thanks, you seem to be certain of this, which is what I was looking for - your original post seemed more speculative.
I'm still not certain that (a) there's no other way to do it with the current spec and (b) VST3 doesn't provide a way -- I've not seen the new spec. (I don't think anyone outside Steinberg has, yet?)
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:59 PM   #25
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I apologize about revolving a... few year old thread, but I'm not convinced this can't be done.

A VST can output MIDI, yes? And a form of MIDI message is MIDI clock? And DAW's are able to follow MIDI clock as timecode to sync to?

So then why couldn't a VST be programmed to send out MIDI clock? Then REAPER could be set to sync to the MIDI clock coming out of the track...

Is it because the MIDI clock would be coming from the FX and not from an external input device? Couldn't you then just do a send from the track over to another track, and have that track be where REAPER syncs to?

Also, is there any way to get my paws on the ReaNINJAM source to fiddle with? I'd love to try and code up something like this myself...

- Andy
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phNord View Post
A VST can output MIDI, yes?
Yes but not all hosts support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phNord View Post
And a form of MIDI message is MIDI clock?
Yes but not all hosts support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phNord View Post
And DAW's are able to follow MIDI clock as timecode to sync to?
Some are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phNord View Post
So then why couldn't a VST be programmed to send out MIDI clock? Then REAPER could be set to sync to the MIDI clock coming out of the track...
Reaper pretty much does this in NINJAM Session Mode, AFAIUI.
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