Motorized faders that work

[Vendetta V]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Scroll through track selection or scroll view up/down in the TCP? Ever taken a look at the Contour Shuttle? I have one and use it with modifiers to do all sorts of scrolls, from scrubbing to envelope points to view scrolling to markers, stretch markers, etc.

Thinking of getting a Faderport to release the transport functions off my shuttle aux buttons.


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is there a way to scroll thru tracks and have the mcp/tcp follow the selection?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Scroll through track selection or scroll view up/down in the TCP? Ever taken a look at the Contour Shuttle? I have one and use it with modifiers to do all sorts of scrolls, from scrubbing to envelope points to view scrolling to markers, stretch markers, etc.

>

I have one but never thought to use it for Reaper. Hmmm

[Vendetta V]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I have one but never thought to use it for Reaper. Hmmm

that looks like a nice controller thingy. not using it with reaper would be a crime. :P wish i had one like that

[Kenny Gioia]

I got it for Pro Tools for scrolling but Reaper supports so many other ways to do it using the track pad that reaching for another controller is unnecessary.

[planetnine]

I'm a sucker for scrubbing...


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[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by planetnine

I'm a sucker for scrubbing...


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Do you mean the scrub wheel or actually rolling back and forth on the audio to hear it?

I like the scrubwheel as well but it take more time to grab it when my track pad is already being used.

[Vendetta V]

Scrubbing is good sometimes. I sometimes can't grab anything but an encoder/fader so it's comfy to have a scrubber on an encoder.

is there a way to scroll thru tracks and have the mcp/tcp follow the selection?

[john doe]

Hi, I just finished my Midibox-based diy controller. It´s supposed to be a Mackie Control Clone and has 9 very nice Penny&Giles Motorfader. You can take a look on it here:

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku..._-_august_2013

greets

[planetnine]

Originally Posted by Vendetta V

is there a way to scroll thru tracks and have the mcp/tcp follow the selection?

It's easy enough to scroll the TCP vertically and the MCP horizontally, but not to keep a specific track in view in both concurrently.

I have custom actions to select the next/previous track and scroll that selected track into view in the TCP if the selection rolls off screen, but although the selection is mirrored in both TCP and MCP as expected, it doesn't keep the selected track in view in the MCP if the selected track happens to be off-screen.

I couldn't find any comparable action to the "Track: Vertical scroll selected tracks into view". I think we're into ReaScript territory here V, or maybe ask Tim or Jeffos very nicely to add an SWS "Horizontal scroll selected tracks into view" action.

Be nice if it's just me that's missed it, but I really couldn't find a way to do it. The selection works, the scrolling only in the TCP.



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[planetnine]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Do you mean the scrub wheel or actually rolling back and forth on the audio to hear it?

I like the scrubwheel as well but it take more time to grab it when my track pad is already being used.

Er both, I think.

Jog wheel on the Contour shuttle, scrubbing the audio back and forth listening for edit points. Like the old scrub and rock, chinagraph at the ready

It's not actually too bad for a digital version.

I use the shuttle ring for faster travel, or modifiers for jumping markers, etc.



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[Vendetta V]

Hey Nathan, thanks for that, I'll try to tinker with it. if it doesnt do what I need (for MCP may be) I might try to tinker withreascript and if it does work, I'll share my solution

[Archimedes]

I'm another big fan of PreSonus fader port. I've used it successfully with Reaper, Ableton, Pro Tools and Reason.

There was a problem a year or so ago with a firmware upgrade to the device. I don't recall all the details but the fader motor itself stopped responding to commands. I found a fix on the internet, applied it - no issues since.

I let's me do what I want to do when I want to do it, without dealing with a big footprint.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Archimedes

I'm another big fan of PreSonus fader port. I've used it successfully with Reaper, Ableton, Pro Tools and Reason.

There was a problem a year or so ago with a firmware upgrade to the device. I don't recall all the details but the fader motor itself stopped responding to commands. I found a fix on the internet, applied it - no issues since.

I let's me do what I want to do when I want to do it, without dealing with a big footprint.

There's two versions of firmware. Presonus (only has the latest on their site) but if you're using an older computer or OS you need the older firmware than the one the unit ships with.

It took me a while but it is fixable.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

There's two versions of firmware. Presonus (only has the latest on their site) but if you're using an older computer or OS you need the older firmware than the one the unit ships with.

It took me a while but it is fixable.

The particular one that has the problem is 1.3.5. This one caused the Fader issue with some DAWs AKA Reaper. 1.3.8 fixes that but it isn't the one shown on the main page (1.3.5 is); so be aware of this because it has broken several Reaper/Faderport users (for PC anyway)...

http://www.presonus.com/products/FaderPort/downloads

Here is the one that fixes that issue:

http://support.presonus.com/entries/...Fader-Solution

So the latest is 1.3.8 and I don't know why it isn't the "latest" on the main download page but 1.3.8 or pre 1.3.5 are the ones that work, stay away from 1.3.5.

[MarcoTangelder]

Behringer BCF2000 all the way. Not expensive, good quality. Use mine for couple of years now, instant setup in Reaper.

[Vendetta V]

oh so Faderport's known issue of breaking the fader is actually a firmware issue not a hardware one?

that makes things much better woah! Next up is faderport boys and girls

(I guess... after i get an iPad mini)

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Vendetta V

oh so Faderport's known issue of breaking the fader is actually a firmware issue not a hardware one?

that makes things much better woah! Next up is faderport boys and girls

(I guess... after i get an iPad mini)

Yep as far as I know, I actually hit it when working on FaderPortXT, I upgraded firmware from 1.33 to 1.35 and busted! Then I found the link above and went to 1.38, fixed again!

[Vendetta V]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Yep as far as I know, I actually hit it when working on FaderPortXT, I upgraded firmware from 1.33 to 1.35 and busted! Then I found the link above and went to 1.38, fixed again!

fiewf. how's the overal feel of hte unit? The clicks.. .are they annoying?

Is it versatily as such?

oh and the pan knob, has it broken yet?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Vendetta V

fiewf. how's the overal feel of hte unit? The clicks.. .are they annoying?

Is it versatily as such?

oh and the pan knob, has it broken yet?

It's been fine, AFAIK most users like the feel of the fader. It also has a micro switch that engages when using touch mode etc. I don't use the PAN that often but I do have most of the buttons programmed for easy access to stuff. Some of my favorites are simple stuff such as show/hide mixer, force focus to the Master output etc. It's up to you though because of the buttons that are programmable, you can make them run whatever action the heck you want!


Clicks aren't annoying best I can remember, very subdued.

[ashasha]

I'm going to chime back in here if no one minds; I'm a bit intimidated by the experience level in this thread, but I did put a lot of time into this exact thing recently. It was actually this same research that turned me onto Reaper in the first place.

Basically it really came down to two things in terms of the hardware.

1. MIDI control without the use of hardware specific drivers.
2. A proven protocol with wide support.

Now the BCF2000 actually falls into that category and I had one. I also had (actually still have) a Contour Shuttle Pro. The amount of stuff you can do with that combination is impressive, but if you are going out there to buy new you are looking around $300-350 for the two items. I like the idea of the Shuttle Pro a lot more than the actual real world performance. The BCF2000 is actually an incredible device because you can program it to be almost anything you can imagine (if you have the time and know-how) and it works. Downside for me was that it didn't have touch automation capabilities and I had trouble remembering the layers of shift commands to get anywhere.

The old Mackie MCU's have MIDI outputs. Some people look down at that, but the one thing that I will never have to worry about is it no longer being supported. The old MCU protocol is established and proven and as long as I can find a MIDI to USB interface that works with whatever OS I am using it will work. How many posts do you read about someone complaining about discontinued support or driver issues with their USB based controller surface? A lot. A whole lot.

The other thing that is nice about it is that you have a LOT of other applications out there that use that protocol.

So for about $400 I was able to get a controller that had touch automation, a fantastic scrub/jog/shuttle wheel, great layout and was actually pretty quiet (extremely quiet compared to my good old BCF2000). Even better is that I have labels that work. I even made an overlay out of lexan for the Reaper specific commands that I wanted.

I know that it's an older device, but it works and it's extremely well made. This is the first setup I've had at home where it actually works right without any effort.

[karbomusic]

Chime away! I hear the BCF2000 is fine but I actually needed something small and just one fader. However, as I said I don't remember BCF2000 not being a good choice albeit I don't keep up that much.

Maybe you can be the local expert on it since there are several of us who have specific pieces of hardware we try to be the unofficial support people for.

[Vendetta V]

thanks for your input ashash. I think I might not be able to get a big unit for now due to limited space (even BCF2000 is big for my current desk)


I'm thinking of either getting the faderpro or more likely getting an iPad mini and using it with the faders, plus it's wireless so I could have it away from my computer yet record and stop delete, and all the rest via OSC



a question though. I haven't noticed a way like that but if I have two different units, could I say have Channel 1 CC 1 from unit 1 to do one action and Channel 1 CC1 from unit 2 do another?

I have two units currently and was wondering if I can split it up for even bigger versatility?

[planetnine]

I think the trick is to use modifier keys with the Contour Shuttle, ashasha -that way you can do far more with the jog wheel than rock the cursor about and scrub audio.

I zoom, scroll, traverse markers, shift track selection, skip item edges and scrub, and that's without starting on it's programmable buttons.

I'm looking forward to teaming it up with a Faderport.


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[Vendetta V]

can we have modifiers assigned to a midi keyboard? Like hold shift on your actual keyboard (say laptop) then twist an encoder and have a different action..?

[airon]

Originally Posted by Vendetta V

can we have modifiers assigned to a midi keyboard? Like hold shift on your actual keyboard (say laptop) then twist an encoder and have a different action..?

I just tried that and no. Interesting point actually.

That's precisely what the Avid Icon and S6 control surfaces do btw. They have modifier keys below the main fader bank for that exact purpose. In some cases they replicate Protools functionality the way the computer keyboard does, but in many others they just expand the functionality of the other buttons.

This might be a good one to put in a feature request.

Midi buttons are probably not going to work as modifiers however. You can't detect the "Button Up" event, as you can with SHIFT, ALT, WIN/CMD and CTRL. OSC stuff might work. EuCon control surfaces have buttons that can function as modifiers, much like the Icon and S6 do.

It's your idea Vendetta. Want to put that up in the issue tracker ?

[Vendetta V]

Originally Posted by airon

I just tried that and no. Interesting point actually.

That's precisely what the Avid Icon and S6 control surfaces do btw. They have modifier keys below the main fader bank for that exact purpose. In some cases they replicate Protools functionality the way the computer keyboard does, but in many others they just expand the functionality of the other buttons.

This might be a good one to put in a feature request.

Midi buttons are probably not going to work as modifiers however. You can't detect the "Button Up" event, as you can with SHIFT, ALT, WIN/CMD and CTRL. OSC stuff might work. EuCon control surfaces have buttons that can function as modifiers, much like the Icon and S6 do.

It's your idea Vendetta. Want to put that up in the issue tracker ?

yeah will do that in a few seconds and even create a discussion thread! Cheers, let me get my coffee though to avoid anything going majorly wrong :P

I'd imagine the 'shift' button would be really handy. Like you have an encoder to jog/scrub, shift+encoder does jog/scrub fine control.
Or it's a move by grid but with shift it kind of bypasses the grid. etc

i'll post the FR link in a few minutes

EDIT: here's the FR! http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4936

please vote guys

[Asher]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

You were supposed to say.. "I know this killer Mac developer guy, he's got mad Mac skills, I bet he could do it."

I'm not a Mac developer per se, but I'm a developer who uses a Mac. I'm planning to get a Faderport in the relatively near future, and when I do I'd be happy to take a stab at patching/compiling your extension for OS X.

[joesacco]

Any coders out there able to code a 64 bit Mac driver for the tascam 1884... Is that at all possible?

[Asher]

Originally Posted by joesacco

Any coders out there able to code a 64 bit Mac driver for the tascam 1884... Is that at all possible?

Depends on what you need. On the Reaper side, it's probably feasible to write an extension if the 1884 outputs something standard like MIDI. But an actual driver would be tough. Even if it's just a recompile (and it's probably more than that), Tascam doesn't release their source code, as far as I know. Writing an up-to-date driver would probably require reverse-engineering the device itself.

Tascam's quick obsolescence cycle is one reason I'm done with their products. I'm happy with my new RME Babyface, and RME has proven to be good about continued support for their products.

[joesacco]

Hey I'm on the same page. I will be very weary buying another Tascam product for fear it will become obsolete quickly. The tascam does output midi but it connects to the computer via FireWire so I have no idea what is possible or not for making it compatible. Either way it's unfortunate because I really liked its features.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by joesacco

Hey I'm on the same page. I will be very weary buying another Tascam product for fear it will become obsolete quickly. The tascam does output midi but it connects to the computer via FireWire so I have no idea what is possible or not for making it compatible. Either way it's unfortunate because I really liked its features.

The first step is to see if it shows up in reaper as some type of midi device. If it does then one should be able to create a custom csurf class for it in the reaper_csurf extension via SDK. If that is possible, all midi events show up in that code. Compiling that to a Tascam_csurf.dll for example then becomes a new control surface in the Reapers list. I could be missing something but that is how faderport works using the same SDK.

[joesacco]

It can be used either as a midi device or a control surface. But I'm pretty sure there's some functionality lost when just use as a midi device.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by joesacco

It can be used either as a midi device or a control surface. But I'm pretty sure there's some functionality lost when just use as a midi device.

There is functionality missing and that's why the custom stuff has to be done as a control surface extension instead and keep the normal midi access (in reaper) disabled. Faderport is the exact same way. I was reviewing the code before I posted.

OTOH.... As a straight midi device (enabled as such) you can usually learn any CC that it sends provided it sends it. That doesn't require a custom implementation other than tying those CCs to actions. There are some differences that I'm forgetting though that still require a custom extension for full functionality but that IIRC depends on the actual device.

EDIT: When I use the term "control surface" I mean it shows up in the list under "Control Surfaces" in reapers preferences.

[joesacco]

I think the main function that would be missed when using it as a midi device is the volume and pan functions not following the tracks...
In midi you could program the first eight faders to say the first eight tracks but after that you would lose the innate functionality of the device where the selected track follows the faders on the device... Sort of hard to explain. Also not sure if the motorized faders would work as a midi device.
Regardless sorry if this way off track to the original post... But if full functionality could be used in 64 bit I would recommend the tascam but don't expect any updates from the company. I emailed them a few times about this..

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by joesacco

But if full functionality could be used in 64 bit I would recommend the tascam but don't expect any updates from the company. I emailed them a few times about this..

No worries, my point was it is entirely possible it could be written with full functionality by someone here without the help of Tascam. That's how much of the current and extended support exists now. Justin provided basic support for some of the devices and others are either complete implementations or extending what was already there.

Now if it is a rarely used device then probably only someone who owns one, needs to use one, and knows how to code would be the only one(s) interested.

[joesacco]

Yeah that's pretty amazing actually. To me anyway because I know next to nothing about coding... Heck or producing for that matter.

[Vendetta V]

did you guys see this FR I created earlier? it's for a modifier on midi buttons/encoders.

please check it out and vote

here's the FR! http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4936

[technogremlin]

Originally Posted by joesacco

I think the main function that would be missed when using it as a midi device is the volume and pan functions not following the tracks...
In midi you could program the first eight faders to say the first eight tracks but after that you would lose the innate functionality of the device where the selected track follows the faders on the device... Sort of hard to explain. Also not sure if the motorized faders would work as a midi device.

I know this discussion is mostly about 'another' Tascam device, but on my US2400 (setup through MIDI), none of what you mention is an issue; my motorized faders work without problems, everything follows/syncs bi-directional (like channel selects, either in the software or on the surface). Even paging works without any additional setup (so far pages 8 channels while I like it to do 24, have to figure that one out).

[Andy Hamm]

I just bought 2 brand new JL Cooper ES8-100 (RS-232) control surfaces on E-bay (and local) for less that $400.00 for the pair!

He has 2 left if anyone is interested. Sorry - He's already down to 1

I intend on using hairless and rtpMIDI to get them working with my system.

[Vendetta V]

that actually looks really solid and is kind of affordable.