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Old 05-27-2020, 04:48 AM   #81
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Bug macOS: right clicking to show the context menu clears the area selection.
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Old 05-27-2020, 04:56 AM   #82
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Also it would be better IMO if the envelopes on item lane could be selected-moved, even without having the action move envelopes with items on.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:04 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Also it would be better IMO if the envelopes on item lane could be selected-moved, even without having the action move envelopes with items on.
+1. i still have that bone to pick with those two actions/modes, and wish AI instead obeyed selection status

EDIT: option: "automatically select all AI concurrent with item" maybe
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:07 AM   #84
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Ok , then could moving be improved from track to track to return/revert when mouse is over envelopes rather than parent track?

EDIT: The reason why that behavior is added in my script because some users do quite of automation, mostly on VST so they would do that (move or copy) (EDM people, sound design etc)

While we are at it not sure how to label this (probably its expected since there are no VST/Same envelopes on other tracks but anyway):
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:11 AM   #85
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Yes, I completely agree. We could want to copy Cutoff and Resonance automation from one synth to another. But they could be named differently on the destination envelopes, like: "Filter Cutoff", "Filter Resonance".
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:11 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Regarding whether area selection should always remove content behind empty space: there is an area selection left-click behavior "split media items at all area selections," and the next built will also have "copy media items at all area selections," which you can map to something like shift+click. So if you don't want the remove-content behavior, create the area, shift+click, then drag.
this ended up being a slick way to handle that FR. thank you!
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:13 AM   #87
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Please take a little attention devs!

We have a large number of scripts that are based on "selected items " and "time selection".
And I definitely think everyone will want to use the area selection for their custom operations tasks on items. For example, rendering and a bunch of other actions that the reaper contains.It would be a crime to use it only for copying deletion and a couple more functions)
I have some suggestions to solve it.

The most painless. When AS is active, turn off the visible items selection and TS. But items must be selected for API. Also "virtual" and invisible TS is set. Start of AS is start of TS etc.
And all scrips "know" what is selected with AS.
And definitely need action for item click( media item and media item bottom half)
"Item area selection"
"Toggle item area selection"
"Add a range of items to area selection"
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:28 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by cool View Post
This is a revolution! Thank you!

Do you plan to make ghostly areas / items / notes that will emphasize the initial position (outline) of the area / item / notes when dragging? This will VERY help in visualization and usability.
+1. Visual indicators are seriously lacking in general -- ie, active tracks do not tint background like in other DAWs. Makes it almost impossible at 4K to know with certainty if you are dropping stuff to the correct lanes.

Restricting Horizontal/Vertical movement of the selection option would help with this too.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:36 AM   #89
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Can any other Mac users please confirm/deny this so I stop posting if it's just me? It started doing this specifically in 6.11 so it's relevant to these pres.



Tried every combination of options involving inertia on/off/suppressed.

This has always been a bit of a thing, but It markedly got worse in 6.11 >. Is no one else experiencing this? It's edging on unusable.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:38 AM   #90
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Can any other Mac users please confirm/deny this so I stop posting if it's just me? .
Are you using the correct color profile in macOS?
If not, you will have GUI performance issues.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:42 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Can any other Mac users please confirm/deny this so I stop posting if it's just me?
This behavior has existed as far back as I have tested, including 4.x versions, so while it's clearly not ideal, it's also not a regression and therefore lower priority.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:43 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by nappies View Post
Please take a little attention devs!

We have a large number of scripts that are based on "selected items " and "time selection".
And I definitely think everyone will want to use the area selection for their custom operations tasks on items. For example, rendering and a bunch of other actions that the reaper contains.It would be a crime to use it only for copying deletion and a couple more functions)
I have some suggestions to solve it.

The most painless. When AS is active, turn off the visible items selection and TS. But items must be selected for API. Also "virtual" and invisible TS is set. Start of AS is start of TS etc.
And all scrips "know" what is selected with AS.
And definitely need action for item click( media item and media item bottom half)
"Item area selection"
"Toggle item area selection"
"Add a range of items to area selection"
Yes, I mentioned something similar earlier.

Ideally any portion of any item that's under the A.S should be seen as a selected item by Reaper, this means that if we use actions that affect selected items like 'mute item' or 'clear take fx' or 'change take' while the area selection is active, it should apply said action to all items under the selection as if they were actually selected, auto splitting them at the boundary points of the A.S if they cross it.

This paradigm of 'anything under the box IS selected, and will react as such' is the ultimate goal of area selection in my mind. Others might disagree though, and I can see why it might be a tall order with the flexibility of the way Reaper's tracks work.

90% of the things I used to do with time selection+marquee select will all be done with area selection now, so if the above isn't coming, then I guess that means a whole new long list of shortcuts to memorise
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:45 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This behavior has existed as far back as I have tested, including 4.x versions, so while it's clearly not ideal, it's also not a regression and therefore lower priority.
Thanks for chiming in Schwa, good to know. It has at least tripled in how bad it behaves in this past version however, but good to know you guys are on it.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:56 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Ok , then could moving be improved from track to track to return/revert when mouse is over envelopes rather than parent track?\
The complexity is that moving multiple envelope areas to a new track can cause the number of visible envelope lanes to change. For example if you are moving a volume and pan envelope area, and the destination track only has the volume envelope visible, the pan envelope then become visible, which changes the vertical height of the track, and can cause the mouse to suddenly be over a different track's envelope lanes, leading to this behavior:



Currently this is handled by not moving the envelope areas unless the mouse is over a different track, not just a different track's envelope lanes. We can look at other ways to deal with this.

(To be clear, the behavior in this screencap cannot happen, because the behavior Sexan describes is not permitted.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Yes, I completely agree. We could want to copy Cutoff and Resonance automation from one synth to another. But they could be named differently on the destination envelopes, like: "Filter Cutoff", "Filter Resonance".
The above description only applies when moving areas on multiple envelopes. You can move areas from any single envelope to any other envelope.

Last edited by schwa; 05-27-2020 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:13 AM   #95
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The complexity is that moving multiple envelope areas to a new track can cause the number of visible envelope lanes to change. For example if you are moving a volume and pan envelope area, and the destination track only has the volume envelope visible, the pan envelope then become visible, which changes the vertical height of the track, and can cause the mouse to suddenly be over a different track's envelope lanes, leading to this behavior:



Currently this is handled by not moving the envelope areas unless the mouse is over a different track, not just a different track's envelope lanes. We can look at other ways to deal with this.
It's one of my first post in the Reaper forum, so please pardon me if i say crap!
what if, in your example, the destination track volume envelope becomes half the height so the pan envelope can become visible without changing the "global envelopes height"?

(also, pardon my english)
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:14 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by nappies View Post
Please take a little attention devs!

We have a large number of scripts that are based on "selected items " and "time selection".
And I definitely think everyone will want to use the area selection for their custom operations tasks on items.
Yes we need area selection for scrips!God idea!
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:18 AM   #97
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Quote:
EDIT: The reason why that behavior is added in my script because some users do quite of automation, mostly on VST so they would do that (move or copy) (EDM people, sound design etc)
I'm OK with that. I make lots of electro music and sound design, and I would like to move two envelopes where I went, at once.

Sometimes we have this:

Blue Filter:
filter cutoff ___/
filter res ----
saturation wet ____

Pro Filter:
filter cutoff
filter res
saturation wet


So, I would like to move the envelopes of Blue Filter on the automation tracks of Pro Filter at once. An option would be nice.
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:22 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by blackbollocks View Post
It's one of my first post in the Reaper forum, so please pardon me if i say crap!
To be clear, the behavior in this screencap cannot happen. I posted it as a visual explanation for why envelope areas only move to a new track if the mouse is over the new track's media lane, rather than envelope lanes.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:04 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
*Ideally any portion of any item that's under the A.S should be seen as a selected item by Reaper...This paradigm of 'anything under the box IS selected, and will react as such' is the ultimate goal of area selection in my mind...90% of the things I used to do with time selection+marquee select will all be done with area selection now
+1 on all of this, i can see this happening with the following custom action (using hypothetical actions that don't exist yet)

"split media items at all area selections"
"select all items/ai in all area selections"

----

brief note: on the subject of default AS color, AS boxes on colored tracks is (surprise!) difficult to see. AS over the white track item is invisible, except for the edges. expected color would be (more dominant?/less transparent?) over track colors. i just started delving into the awesome AS theme tweaker options and this will solve my issue, but consideration should probably be given to making the default a little easier to see on custom colored tracks.

-----

regarding "split media items at all area selections" -- remember those "tiny mouse movement" fixes you implemented for ME, MEx, TCP, and Arrange etc over the past year? here's another one for you: tiny mouse movements after using this mouse modifier cause duplications of the AI that have been split. below, i show the issue behavior and the expected behavior after an undo.

any action that involves a mouse button is probably going to move the mouse cursor a tiny bit, and is a red flag for this reoccurring user/hardware error blameshare.

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Old 05-27-2020, 07:26 AM   #100
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Are you using the correct color profile in macOS?
If not, you will have GUI performance issues.
Which color profile are you suppose to use again? Is generic RGB Profile ok?
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:00 AM   #101
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Which color profile are you suppose to use again? Is generic RGB Profile ok?
I think that is one of the slow ones, but my memory is a bit fuzzy so don't take my word for it. I tested every profile a while ago, about half of them is slow and other half is good. I use "sRGB".
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:06 AM   #102
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That is by design. The thinking is that if you have a single area of an envelope, it makes sense that you might want to paste it to another type of envelope, but if you have multiple areas selected, like say volume and pan, it's highly likely you want to paste them to a pair of volume and pan envelopes, rather than to two other envelope types that happen to be adjacent to each other.
In fact, I can't see a reason to copy or move one automation movement to another unrelated lane. Maybe copying a movement you did on one OSC to another OSC in a VSTi because that's "related" somehow but in a real life scenario I can't think of a time where I copied or moved a movement I did on a volume envelope to a pan envelope.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:16 AM   #103
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Just to elaborate a bit more on what I said above: some times it's necessary to draw a line before things get to complex and not intuitive. Freedom is cool and permitting users to do many things that "aren't supposed to happen" is somehow the REAPER's ethos but you have to be careful about it because it can become a real pain later when implementing other things.

Just a thought...
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:28 AM   #104
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Which color profile are you suppose to use again? Is generic RGB Profile ok?
Found this from 2017:

https://user.cockos.com/~deadbeef/in...?search=proved

Not sure if there's more up to date info.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:29 AM   #105
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Devs: Thinking of using Area Selection in the current pre for actual work. I know it's "at your own risk" but do you see any potential for corrupting projects using these pres? Does the presence of AS in any way create trouble scenarios on the project files themselves or does it just topically do it's thing?
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:35 AM   #106
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Devs: Thinking of using Area Selection in the current pre for actual work. I know it's "at your own risk" but do you see any potential for corrupting projects using these pres? Does the presence of AS in any way create trouble scenarios on the project files themselves or does it just topically do it's thing?

It's unlikely to mess up project files, but always use prereleases at your own risk!
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:41 AM   #107
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In fact, I can't see a reason to copy or move one automation movement to another unrelated lane. Maybe copying a movement you did on one OSC to another OSC in a VSTi because that's "related" somehow but in a real life scenario I can't think of a time where I copied or moved a movement I did on a volume envelope to a pan envelope.

I have given the exemple of two different filters which have the same parameters.

In electro music/sound design, we can copie the volume envelope to a pan envelope. Already done...
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:48 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
In fact, I can't see a reason to copy or move one automation movement to another unrelated lane. Maybe copying a movement you did on one OSC to another OSC in a VSTi because that's "related" somehow but in a real life scenario I can't think of a time where I copied or moved a movement I did on a volume envelope to a pan envelope.
It was just an example, but its a track envelope, so it does not matter is it pan vol width or VST filter cut resonance etc... filtering on which track you can move is more work than enabling it on all.

What in this case?


Would copy work across envelopes (atm it does not work, not sure is it by design or not implemented, standard copy paste not drag)?

Last edited by Sexan; 05-27-2020 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:52 AM   #109
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Also it would be better IMO if the envelopes on item lane could be selected-moved, even without having the action move envelopes with items on.
How would you know what you selected?
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:02 AM   #110
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How would you know what you selected?
What's inside the box

The main purpose of AS is to grab everything selected inside, it should bypass the action move envelope with item.

If the envelope is overlapping an item then it would need another method,I gave an idea on post 77 https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=77

This is also how Ableton deals with overlapping envelopes
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:08 AM   #111
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Default What You see is NOT - Area is including fader when copied.gif

The area selected has no fade, but the item(s) has a fade at start or at end.
Why Left Drag Copy should inclue the fader ? Is it normal ?

Windows 10
Reaper v6.11 + dev0526a/x64
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:11 AM   #112
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This is a revolution! Thank you!

Do you plan to make ghostly areas / items / notes that will emphasize the initial position (outline) of the area / item / notes when dragging? This will VERY help in visualization and usability.
+1 on the ghost outline. It’s very cool and extremely helpful/clear indication to my way of working.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:24 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
It was just an example, but its a track envelope, so it does not matter is it pan vol width or VST filter cut resonance etc... filtering on which track you can move is more work than enabling it on all.

What in this case?


Would copy work across envelopes (atm it does not work, not sure is it by design or not implemented, standard copy paste not drag)?
It wouldn't make sense to copy the attack envelope from ReaComp to ReaXComp because they don't share the same range. That's the "real scenario" I'm talking about. For real work that won't do the job.

I understand your premise of having the feature enabled just in case you need it (copy/paste from/to unrelated parameters) but devs have to consider some cases where this would do more harm than good for the end-user. I think Schwa mentioned one of those cases a few posts ago.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:26 AM   #114
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This is still happening folks:



Tension of original curve changes after duplication.
Yes, I think is more an AI issue rather than the new area selection. I now know the important part is fixing this new feature but I say it because I think is related. Reaper has some problems with AI shape points, specially when are copied/pasted and implied/glued (printed). Example:

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Old 05-27-2020, 09:30 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I think Schwa mentioned one of those cases a few posts ago.
Thats unrelated to this its for something else and I'm fine with that.


A51 copy (and move is same)

Last edited by Sexan; 05-27-2020 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:36 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
It wouldn't make sense to copy the attack envelope from ReaComp to ReaXComp because they don't share the same range. That's the "real scenario" I'm talking about. For real work that won't do the job.

I understand your premise of having the feature enabled just in case you need it (copy/paste from/to unrelated parameters) but devs have to consider some cases where this would do more harm than good for the end-user. I think Schwa mentioned one of those cases a few posts ago.
Why it wouldn't make sense? When i was using Cubase i was copy/pasting a lot from a parameter to another unmatched parameter. It gives more freedom.

Let's say i have an lfo shape in volume envelope, then i want to paste this to another track to the pan envelope and then the same to a filter envelope.

Or you want to paste a rising/falling envelope with the exact same bend curve.
Makes sense to me
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:36 AM   #117
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Yes, I think is more an AI issue rather than the new area selection. I now know the important part is fixing this new feature but I say it because I think is related. Reaper has some problems with AI shape points, specially when are copied/pasted and implied/glued (printed). Example:

Agreed it shows up in AIs as well, but in my example there's no Automation Items. Literally just using Area Selection Duplication.

Makes me think internally the AI logic is being recycled for AS
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:38 AM   #118
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Devs, is the ghosts approach being considered instead of doing all the area behaviour live? The approach of moving areas live in general makes a lot of behaviour very hard to get right and reduces user visual feedback a lot.
Another big problem it brings is the project getting modified when moving areas. It takes away the part of the peace of mind that area selection brings, it feels more like a fancy marquee selection instead of area selection.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:41 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Can any other Mac users please confirm/deny this so I stop posting if it's just me? It started doing this specifically in 6.11 so it's relevant to these pres.



Tried every combination of options involving inertia on/off/suppressed.

This has always been a bit of a thing, but It markedly got worse in 6.11 >. Is no one else experiencing this? It's edging on unusable.
If I get the gif right, you experience that swiping triggers zooming as well?
This has been reported by Macusers of our Ultraschall extension since we changed to Reaper 6.04 in our last release(before that we used Reaper 5.7 as basis, where this wasn't reported to us) so it's definitely a thing and I can confirm that this behavior at least came more into the forefront recently.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:43 AM   #120
Meo-Ada Mespotine
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I still need some time to get my head around the benefits of new area-selection-feature but the more gifs I see, the more I think, it's awesome...
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