Old 01-14-2021, 06:14 PM   #1
talustalus
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Default Reaper skips some recorded midi notes

Until I open the editor and click on the notes that are skipped.


This is a serious bug. Has anyone else seen this?
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:46 PM   #2
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I get skipping of notes every now and then; however not all that often compared to the amount of midi notes that I play as I compose and listen to what I have done. When it does occur, its pretty inconsistant - wonít occur the next play through. Sometimes I trim/alter notes.

Do you have sequences where the same specific note is skipped every time? Does the problem still occur if you use another vsti?
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:03 AM   #3
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Yes the problem occurs for any VSTi.

You're right, it's mainly inconsistent. But I also get the same notes skipped.

In any case no notes should skip.

Reaper needs to fix this. In 2021 a DAW should have no trouble playing back the recorded midi notes with 100% accuracy.
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Old 01-15-2021, 07:35 AM   #4
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There are a lot of reasons this can happen & not just in Reaper.
For a start, what VSTi (s) are you using to replay your MIDI tracks?
Are you leaving the ASIO buffer at the same rate on playback as when recording & if so, what is your ASIO buffer size?
There are so many variables involved in MIDI recording & playback, many of which have nothing to do with Reaper specifically, so you/we need to track down why it is happening.

One really basic example is that if you are using a VSTi with a limit on the number of notes it can play back simultaneously, this is pretty common, it will do exactly what you are saying.
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:54 PM   #5
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This happens to me, too. It's often the second note (and maybe another one or two) that is missing. It's not to do with polyphony as the note is missing in the piano roll.
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:14 AM   #6
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Iín pretty sure everyone above is talking about a different situation than what you describe; I know that I am -> the midi note is in the midi editor/piano roll but it doesnít play.

How are you getting midi into Reaper? External midi controller? Importing a midi file?
What is your equipment chain from source to Reaper?

Iíve seen instances where notes are being dropped or altered when importing a midi file; donít ever recall notes not being recorded into Reaper but I do pretty simplistic things.

As Ivan said, and I say it applies to your specific problem -> there could be many reasons why its happening and it might/might not be Reaper.
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:59 AM   #7
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Default inconsistant midi recording on Steven Slate Drums as well

I recently started playing my Yamaha eDrums again and was going to record a few tests and I noticed the same issue. Randomly the bass drum or toms (during a drum fill) will either drop out, or sometimes it looks as though it created one note rather than two for the tom. I'm also seeing random L O N G notes for drum hits, like almost a measure. I spent about 6 hours yesterday troubleshooting. Originally I was on reaper 5.9x (I think?), so I tried the latest version, thinking it was a bug. No change. I then installed a portable version of Reaper to test it, no change. I finally installed Cakewalk as a test, and it records perfectly. Not one missed note.

When playing the drums live, none of the notes are missed in Reaper, just when recording the midi.

Here is my system:

Core i5-3570
12GB RAM
DTX700 drum module midi through USB
DTX500 drum module midi through M-Audio Delta 2496 (I believe that's the model)

What I've tried:

Tried latest version of Reaper

Tried portable version of Reaper

Made sure I had the MIDI recording set to "overdub"

Changed sample rate on the m-audio card to lower settings (not that I thought that would work since it has no bearing on the MIDI input of the DTX700)

Created blank project with only 1 track, no VSTs, and just recorded the midi notes (just played the drums), same problem.

Changed the Audio device timing from "Time Critical" to "Normal" (again, grasping at straws here)

Verified in the midi editor that "Automatically Correct Overlapping Notes" wasn't enabled

Upgraded to the latest version of SSD

Tested "Advanced MIDI event timestamp options" for the midi device. I tested both High and Low (normal is default)

And of course, Cakewalk, which didn't drop any notes.
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Old 01-27-2021, 04:09 PM   #8
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Try inserting this vst on the reaper track: js midi note sanitizer - after other vstis on track
Do you get the same results with your edrums? Missed notes?

If so:
I would suggest recording the midi in cakewalk and export to a midi file. Verify that the midi file imported into reaper skips the same notes as you noted above - even if randomly.

I only suggested the midi file as opposed to playing the edrums over in Reaper just to establish that same exact midi was played in both.

Attach midi file, cakewalk screenshot, reaper screenshot, and reaper rpp file to this bug report.

The more examples for the developers, the better.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:55 AM   #9
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I tried the midi note sanitizer, same issue. I had previously tried recording MIDI without any VST's and also got the same issue


I recorded the midi in cakewalk then imported the MIDI file into Reaper, it played perfectly.

I also made sure the sample rate of my M-Audio 2496 was the same for both applications

I'm not sure what you meant by screenshots of Reaper and Cakewalk, I assume you meant the midi files? I'll attach screenshots of the MIDI (I took a screen shot of the cakewalk MIDI in Reaper but named the screenshot files appropriately )

I'm unable to attach my RPP file. It only has one VST (SSD5) and no audio, but the size is 733kb, the max upload size is 484kb


Quote:
Originally Posted by b2001 View Post
Try inserting this vst on the reaper track: js midi note sanitizer - after other vstis on track
Do you get the same results with your edrums? Missed notes?

If so:
I would suggest recording the midi in cakewalk and export to a midi file. Verify that the midi file imported into reaper skips the same notes as you noted above - even if randomly.

I only suggested the midi file as opposed to playing the edrums over in Reaper just to establish that same exact midi was played in both.

Attach midi file, cakewalk screenshot, reaper screenshot, and reaper rpp file to this bug report.

The more examples for the developers, the better.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cakewalkrecording.jpg (53.8 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg reaperrecording.jpg (54.3 KB, 65 views)
Attached Files
File Type: mid cakewalk.mid (439 Bytes, 68 views)
File Type: mid reaper.mid (488 Bytes, 63 views)
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Old 01-28-2021, 03:49 PM   #10
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This stuff can drive one nuts.

I dragged both midi files to two tracks in Reaper. Couldnít get sound out of them with various vstis I use all the time. I notice the notes all are set up on midi channel 10; globally changed notes to channel 1 and got a couple of vstis to work. Got one vsti that receives on any midi channel that still doesnít work. Apparently, thereís still something I donít understand about this stuff.

After all that, I canít duplicate your stuck note issue. The midi files are obviously different but I hear no stuck notes with either.

How did you get the midi into Reaper? I assumed if I dragged the cakewalk midi file into Reaper, it would end up looking like the Reaper midi file but it doesnít.

Weirdness abounds...
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Old 01-28-2021, 04:18 PM   #11
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Yes, it is driving me nuts! I remember a long long time ago I was using a different drum VST and don't remember having this issue.

Oddly, the notes don't sound stuck, they just appear to be stuck in the midi file (since drums are just a one hit and done thing).

I just dragged the midi file from windows file explorer onto the track.

I didn't pay attention, but I can add zip files, so I'm uploading my project file. I'm also uploading rendered out versions of the sound for each midi file. You'll notice the drum fill and the bass drum's are messed up in the reaper midi file (they should both sound almost exactly alike). Both of the rendered files were rendered with Reaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b2001 View Post
This stuff can drive one nuts.

I dragged both midi files to two tracks in Reaper. Couldnít get sound out of them with various vstis I use all the time. I notice the notes all are set up on midi channel 10; globally changed notes to channel 1 and got a couple of vstis to work. Got one vsti that receives on any midi channel that still doesnít work. Apparently, thereís still something I donít understand about this stuff.

After all that, I canít duplicate your stuck note issue. The midi files are obviously different but I hear no stuck notes with either.

How did you get the midi into Reaper? I assumed if I dragged the cakewalk midi file into Reaper, it would end up looking like the Reaper midi file but it doesnít.

Weirdness abounds...
Attached Files
File Type: zip reaperproject.zip (64.9 KB, 58 views)
File Type: zip cakewalkmidi.zip (159.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: zip reapermidi.zip (187.9 KB, 63 views)
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Old 01-30-2021, 01:20 PM   #12
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So noticed this thread:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=248790

I was getting the message box mentioned when dragging your midi files into Reaper; implying its a midi file type 0. I’m thinking that might be causing the issues (maybe?) I had and possibly the issues you’re having.

Can you verify if you can/are creating a type 1 file?
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Old 01-30-2021, 03:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2001 View Post
So noticed this thread:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=248790

I was getting the message box mentioned when dragging your midi files into Reaper; implying its a midi file type 0. Iím thinking that might be causing the issues (maybe?) I had and possibly the issues youíre having.

Can you verify if you can/are creating a type 1 file?
I exported from Cakewalk as a Type 1 midi file. Reaper does not ask for a type 0 or 1 when exporting.

When I drag and drop the Cakewalk MIDI onto my timeline, the only thing it says is something about it having an embedded tempo. Other than that, it imports fine.

I just tried importing it onto my other computer with Reaper, it imported fine. I didn't even get a warning about the tempo (I assume I had the cakewalk tempo set to the same as the song I was working on)
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:40 PM   #14
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Isn't this down to overlapping notes?
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
Isn't this down to overlapping notes?
Not overlapping. It just skips standalone notes as well. Until I open the midi editor and I don't know exactly what, maybe I select the notes or run the pattern with the editor open a few times, then the notes start to get recognized.
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:00 PM   #16
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I downloaded "reaper.mid" attachment and can confirm it does have overlapping notes. Indeed, the very first note in the file overlaps. Am I looking at the wrong file?
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Old 02-02-2021, 07:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I downloaded "reaper.mid" attachment and can confirm it does have overlapping notes. Indeed, the very first note in the file overlaps. Am I looking at the wrong file?
Sorry I wasn't aware you're referring to a reference file.

I was just discussing the problem on my side - it happens for non-overlapping notes as well.
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Old 02-02-2021, 07:39 PM   #18
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That's probably a different issue. You should start your own thread
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Old 02-02-2021, 07:45 PM   #19
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Or post a rpp file and a midi file (if you’re importing it) that demonstrates the problem...

Edit: you started the thread, no need to start another
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Old 02-03-2021, 12:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2001 View Post
Edit: you started the thread, no need to start another
My mistake. I apologise. but yes, post an example.
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Old 02-23-2021, 08:25 AM   #21
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Default Well, I found a work around

Ok, apparently, recording MIDI only works correctly when you select "Record input (audio or MIDI)"

Anything selected under the submenu "Record MIDI overdub/replace" does NOT work correctly. It will randomly drop notes, even if it's not actually overwriting/replacing anything. (for example, you start with an empty track).
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimCom View Post
Ok, apparently, recording MIDI only works correctly when you select "Record input (audio or MIDI)"

Anything selected under the submenu "Record MIDI overdub/replace" does NOT work correctly. It will randomly drop notes, even if it's not actually overwriting/replacing anything. (for example, you start with an empty track).
This might actually be it. Without testing this, I definitely know that I use midi record modes other than 'record input (audio or MIDI)'

I will test this later but I believe you here.

Can dev please look into this?

Many thanks.
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talustalus View Post
This might actually be it. Without testing this, I definitely know that I use midi record modes other than 'record input (audio or MIDI)'

I will test this later but I believe you here.

Can dev please look into this?

Many thanks.
did this solve the issue? I am having the same problem.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
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did this solve the issue? I am having the same problem.
No it did not solve the problem.

This needs to be still fixed.
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Old 09-29-2021, 01:01 PM   #25
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I have the same issue. Driving me bonkers. Especially happens when playing a piano chord with little trills or leading ghost notes.
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Old 09-29-2021, 11:37 PM   #26
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Developers, if you could look into this, please!

It is fundamental (= playback of midi notes as recorded?) to a reliable recording software DAW.
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Old 10-12-2021, 09:47 AM   #27
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Hi,
I've got the exact same issue, using a pad (BopPad).

Record in Reaper = many notes skipped
Record in DigitalPerformer = no problem

For some years i've made my (pad) recordings in DP and exported the midi tracks in Reaper.
It works but it's not exactly the most efficient way of working!

The obvious issue is that with a pad you can send some Notes On not immediately followed by Notes Off.
It's absolutely not linked to the VI used (it keeps skipping even without VI on the track/session).

It works fine in DP (and others DAW apparently) but it doesn't work in Reaper!

I hope that the problem will be solved eventually (it's an old bugÖ) BUT today I've found a better workaround!

I use MidiPipe (MacOs only) http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html
The settings are:

In MidiPipe

Midi In = BopPad
Monophonic
Midi Out = MidiPipe Out1

In Reaper

MidiPipe Out1 as midi input

And now it works as it should be! I can record my pads directly in Reaper!

Hope it helps.
And hope that the devs will fix that.
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:48 PM   #28
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If you compare the original, unchanged output with the MidiPipe output, what changed? Did MidiPipe add a bunch of note-offs?
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Old 10-12-2021, 10:55 PM   #29
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a note coming from a pad is cut (not off) by a new note coming from the same pad.
BopPad is a 4 zones pads, so can be considered as one midi controller with 4 pads.
I can play the 4 zones simultaneously, so the MidiPipe "monophonic" doesn't mean 1 note at the same time for the entire pad controller.
But now it equals to the same paradigm as a keyboard controller where you can only retrigger a note if the key is released before. Except that you don't have to actually release your finger from the pad and that changes everything.

I've made a short test with 2 tracks recorded simultaneously:
1st with BopPad as input
2nd with MidiPipe as input (BopPad through MidiPipe)

I can show you that later if needed?

But MidiPipe is free so you can try for yourself if you're on a mac.

Last edited by marcmarc; 10-12-2021 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 10-13-2021, 12:57 PM   #30
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I guess I'd be interested in seeing what's being sent from the device directly vs what is sent from MidiPipe without having to do all of the work to reproduce it myself. If you can record in DP, I can look at it there, too.

A couple of things: it sounds like MidiPipe in monophonic mode is adding note-offs to your stream. Kind of ironic that REAPER has trouble recording or playing back MIDI streams without note-offs, given that it generates them just fine under certain circumstances (see https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=10).

Also, MPE playback would necessitate being able to play the same note twice with different articulations/pitch/etc., per section 3.2 of the MPE spec. However, that would happen across multiple channels, so maybe this problem (if it's in fact the problem you're describing) isn't in and of itself a problem for MPE.

If you have more concrete information about the MIDI streams you're talking about, it'd be useful to have that (DP project, SMF, anything showing the raw MIDI data before it hits REAPER).
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Old Yesterday, 08:08 AM   #31
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a midi export with 2 short tracks recorded simultaneously in reaper
no quantize, no nothing.
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File Type: zip midi_export.mid.zip (791 Bytes, 2 views)
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcmarc View Post
a midi export with 2 short tracks recorded simultaneously in reaper
no quantize, no nothing.
Thanks, that's still not the streams you're generating from the hardware vs MidiPipe pre-REAPER (recorded in DP or using some generic software like Midi Monitor.app). BUT given what you've written, you can see pretty clearly that REAPER is combining note-ons received without a note-off into a single note event:


Last edited by sockmonkey72; Yesterday at 10:08 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM   #33
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Well I donít really bother to launch DP since the midipipe workaround works perfectly well and give me the same result as before with DP > export and so on.
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Old Yesterday, 12:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcmarc View Post
Well I donít really bother to launch DP since the midipipe workaround works perfectly well and give me the same result as before with DP > export and so on.
I don't really care about DP per se. I just want to see what the HW is really sending, before it is processed by REAPER. So far, you've demonstrated the result, but not the conditions which lead to it. Midi Monitor.app is probably the easiest way.
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Old Today, 02:17 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimCom View Post
I tried the midi note sanitizer, same issue.
Sanitizer doesn't work. You want ReaControlMidi as the first plugin in the chain. Which works, for whatever reason.
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Old Today, 07:26 AM   #36
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@beingmf
could you be more specific?
ReaControlMidi at the 1st position in input fx I suppose?
and with which settings?
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Old Today, 08:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcmarc View Post
@beingmf
could you be more specific?
ReaControlMidi at the 1st position in input fx I suppose?
and with which settings?
Try output fx. Despite the "type agnostic" tracks in REAPER, it appears that certain (external hw) MIDI features don't work properly without ReaControlMIDI in the fx chain.
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Old Today, 09:17 AM   #38
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For me ReaControlMidi does nothing, in input FX or in output FX.

But in the meantime I've found a better workaround (to what we can call a real bug!).
No more MidiPipe in the path.

"MIDI note length control" (from cfillion in ReaPack) inserted as input FX and it just works!
It works with all the settings set to default but I've put Max lenght to 0.2
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Old Today, 01:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcmarc View Post
For me ReaControlMidi does nothing, in input FX or in output FX.

But in the meantime I've found a better workaround (to what we can call a real bug!).
No more MidiPipe in the path.

"MIDI note length control" (from cfillion in ReaPack) inserted as input FX and it just works!
It works with all the settings set to default but I've put Max lenght to 0.2
I'm not convinced that it's a bug, and since you still haven't shown us the original data coming from the hardware, I sort of doubt that REAPER's devs are particularly convinced either.

I don't think the MIDI spec says one way or another what a receiver should do if the incoming MIDI stream is missing note-offs, or if they arrive after new note-ons. Consider this scenario:

C3 note-on (count of C3s = 1) START C3
C3 note-on (count of C3s = 2) |
C3 note-off (count of C3s = 1) |
C3 note-off (count of C3s = 0) END C3

Appears to be REAPER's strategy, and logically, there's nothing wrong with it, even if it's not what one expects given other implementations.
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