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Old 07-23-2007, 01:42 PM   #81
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I've had this with kick drums on a 4 bar loop - I could hear the downbeat twice just at the junction of the two items even though there wasn't one just before the end of the first.

In my case I resolved it by zooming in at the junction and removing the little fades (which are not crossfades, just the standard fades you get on an item). Does removing those work for you?

If so then there is something screwy about how they are being interpreted on MIDI items.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:19 PM   #82
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Heh, right

Tried shortening the last note in the MIDI part and the glitch is gone .

This should be just a temporary workaround, though. Looping should be seamless without doing any tricks like that. EnergyXT suffers from same looping glitch, too, btw, and the same trick applies.

I think it's called "bad audio-midi sync" and we can thank MicroSoft and Windows for that, too. Justin could tell us more about the painful subject of Windows timing and precision synching the MIDI and audio, I'm sure . Must be tricky stuff.

Windows is just no good when it comes to streaming and precise timing, it's a well known fact.

Cheers!

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Old 07-23-2007, 02:32 PM   #83
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please don't mix up things. the thread is about this http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...10&postcount=1 issue. and this has nothing to do with bad timing of windows. it's a internal problem of reaper (related to streaming/buffering to the soundcard/driver).

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Old 07-23-2007, 02:48 PM   #84
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It is Reaper's problem, of course, but I was just pointing out that Windows in general are the culprit of the problem with MIDI, and as we can't have one without the other... that's a computer technician talking from me, as I'm very familiar with OS's inner workings. Can't help myself not thinking in the broader sense.

Anyway, we have a workaround now , yay!

If you shorten the last MIDI note just a tad, glitch's gone. Cool.

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Old 07-23-2007, 02:55 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuX View Post
Anyway, we have a workaround now , yay!

If you shorten the last MIDI note just a tad, glitch's gone. Cool.
It's not! That workaround doesn't "work". Just insert a short note in the midi-item, but increase the release-time in the VSTi (to get a long pad-type sound).

I say it again: http://www.cockos.com/forum/showpost...10&postcount=1

There's no workaround.



Ok -> never having repeat enabled in the transport would be a workaround. Other than that i can't find one.


It's about holding a sound properly (without glitches) over the loop-end on repeated playback of a loop-selection.


FIXED (2.99 alpha preview 1)

Last edited by Dstruct; 11-16-2008 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:29 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
It's not! That workaround doesn't "work". Just insert a short note in the midi-item, but increase the release-time in the VSTi (to get a long pad-type sound).

Ouch! Correct. If the sound have a long release "The Glitch" creeps back. So it works only for short sounds.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:11 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by DuX View Post
Ouch! Correct. If the sound have a long release "The Glitch" creeps back. So it works only for short sounds.
Appart from the glitch theres also extra time (audio buffer size i guess)introduced at the loop point. So hey i see where ya might find workarounds to avoid the click, but it remains a bug that needs to get fixed...

-M-
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:14 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martijn Deluxe
theres also extra time (audio buffer size i guess) introduced at the loop point.
that's the reason of the glitch i think
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:13 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martijn Deluxe View Post
Appart from the glitch theres also extra time (audio buffer size i guess)introduced at the loop point. So hey i see where ya might find workarounds to avoid the click, but it remains a bug that needs to get fixed...

-M-
Exactemouis and I think you should've said "needs to get fixed *badly*", as in "it's been here for so long that people maybe forgot about it." Like an old dead neighbour or something...

Cheers!
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:42 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martijn Deluxe View Post
Appart from the glitch theres also extra time (audio buffer size i guess)introduced at the loop point. So hey i see where ya might find workarounds to avoid the click, but it remains a bug that needs to get fixed...

-M-
Umm there shouldnt be any additional time at the loop point. In fact, last we tested, it was sub-sample accurate, meaning you could set a loop that was 153715.5 samples long, and it would alternate between looping 153715 and 15716 samples each time through, as to not drift over time.

The glitch is from the fact that it does in fact render internally extra audio, but it doesnt play it all.

We have some solutions for the softsynth glitching that we will try out in the 2.x series. However these will require some internal changes that we'll want to spend a lot of time testing.

-Justin
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:51 PM   #91
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nice, great to hear this!

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Old 07-24-2007, 10:10 PM   #92
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I didn't know about the sub sample accuracy. Wow. It makes me feel safe working with Reaper, thanks for the info, now we have some new stuff to brag about .

but I don't like the fact we'll have to live with "The Glitch" for a long time... aargh

it didn't seem that complicated. Internal changes? Shoot...

Well, that's life: can't live with it, can't live without it.

Cheers!

Last edited by DuX; 07-24-2007 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:32 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by DuX View Post
but I don't like the fact we'll have to live with "The Glitch" for a long time... aargh
mmh, 120 days minimum ...



maybe justin even brings it earlier (like it happened with other announced stuff too)
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:04 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Umm there shouldnt be any additional time at the loop point. In fact, last we tested, it was sub-sample accurate, meaning you could set a loop that was 153715.5 samples long, and it would alternate between looping 153715 and 15716 samples each time through, as to not drift over time.

The glitch is from the fact that it does in fact render internally extra audio, but it doesnt play it all.

We have some solutions for the softsynth glitching that we will try out in the 2.x series. However these will require some internal changes that we'll want to spend a lot of time testing.

-Justin
Ya i was wrong there. What happened is that it was a seq with BPM synced delay. So the delayed pattern got shifted. thats why i thought there was extra latency at the glitch...

Keep up the good work ;-)

-Martijn-
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:25 AM   #95
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Here is the picture.Watch this picture.If you cut last note(in piano roll) at the end of the loop,you dont hear any clicks anymore.

BUT,THE FIRST NOTE OF THIS LOOP WILL PLAY WITH A SMALL DELAY.(!)
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:24 AM   #96
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Oddly, I haven't experienced any midi glitching with the new betas. Only if my buffer size is low and the project is getting cpu intensive, the timing of midi events will be totally out of whack, something I don't seem to get in other hosts...
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:02 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igr0 View Post
Here is the picture.Watch this picture.If you cut last note(in piano roll) at the end of the loop,you dont hear any clicks anymore.

BUT,THE FIRST NOTE OF THIS LOOP WILL PLAY WITH A SMALL DELAY.(!)

Yeah... It's a bit messed up and a quite aggravating.

I've been having a problem with this as well. I make my own loops of random ideas and save them for future use. Say a typical loop is 120bpm / 4 beats. If I enter the pattern like in your picture but run the last note to the end, then save it, when I import it into a project, it goes in with the notes in the right places, but the loop is now 5 beats long. In any other program it imports as 4 beats like it's supposed to. If I make the same pattern in another program the same thing happens (works everywhere but reaper). It's seeing the note off on 5.1.0 and assuming the length should really be 5 beats. I don't know if this is a new problem or not since a few days ago (surprisingly) was the first time I had a pattern that ran up to the very end of the last beat. Really annoying to have to split the item at the 5th beat before dragging it out to the desired length. The midi editor won't save the file with the end bar set at 5.1.0 either - it keeps moving to 5.2.0 which mocks me as soon as I reopen it.

ugh......

I feel like I'm stuck in Oz sometimes and I just have to keep telling myself... it's still in beta...... it's still in beta...... it's still in beta......

hm
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Old 11-07-2007, 05:53 AM   #98
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Bump, btw...
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Old 11-07-2007, 04:16 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i978 View Post
I've noticed the "pop" comes on the first note of the loop. It's
I've been getting a glitch at the start of a loop when I do something that makes it overload - then if I deselect it, the glitch remains.... Nothing removes it.

EXCEPT - if I remove the ReaPitch on the one track it is on, it goes away...
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:50 AM   #100
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EXCEPT - if I remove the ReaPitch on the one track it is on, it goes away...
Seems like I can re-create this if I've changed the default algorithm at least once? When the live audio glitches, the glitch stays there when the loop is unselected...
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:34 AM   #101
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Default When this HELL will be fixed?

I just wondered, how long should we wait FOR FIXING this terrible clicks and sound delay in LOOP START and LOOP END in looping mode( selected range repeat ). I use a lot of delay effects, so after loop end/start delay effects plugins go out of sinc! It sounds just worse. And this clicks DELAYED TOO! I'm too tired of it...

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Old 12-11-2007, 03:37 AM   #102
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I don't know, maybe i'm wrong. Maybe Justin working constantly with it, and it takes time. I really don't know...But i always wait the new update for fixing that.

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Old 12-11-2007, 11:46 PM   #103
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MEGA BUMP.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:21 AM   #104
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bump.

this problem is particularly irritating for me. using fxpansion guru for drums, it makes the first hit in the bar go BANG as if the velocity was raised + 60. i'm not sure about other samplers, but I can only assume they would act the same.
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:46 AM   #105
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In another thread i wrote:

"...I use a lot of delay effects, so after loop end/start delay effects plugins go out of sinc! It sounds just worse. And this clicks DELAYED TOO! I'm too tired of it..."

So, any delay effects in repeat mode will just EAT your nervous.))) (((( :0
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:05 AM   #106
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Besides not having zero-crossings for loops, mouse wheel not working consistently in the main window and the MIDI editor, I must admit this MIDI loop glitch is by far the most annoying Reaper's anti-feature . IMHO.
I mean, when you're working on a song, you have to loop parts of it, sometimes not just for a while, but a long while when tweaking or mixing sounds etc. Extremely annoying. So annoying that I'm making the Reaper loop at least 4x longer than usual, just so it doesn't poke me in the brain so often. It makes me paranoid, like something's wrong with the synth, or sample... like something's gonna crash...

Gotta lose "the glitch" somehows, dude... .

Cheers!

Last edited by DuX; 12-16-2007 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:17 AM   #107
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Quote:
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So annoying that I'm making the Reaper loop at least 4x longer than usual, just so it doesn't poke me in the brain so often.
lol +1 on that
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:02 AM   #108
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lol +1 on that
And i'm forced to do the same. +1 or -1 ?
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:11 AM   #109
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...bump! :P
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:56 AM   #110
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yeah, nice to see that i'm not the only one with this problem. justin, any news on the timeframe for this?


FIXED (2.99 alpha preview 1)

Last edited by Dstruct; 11-16-2008 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:25 PM   #111
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CHRISTMAS BUMP

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Old 01-08-2008, 05:39 PM   #112
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9-days-past-new-year bump!
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:06 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James23 View Post
Ah this might be unavoidable for now.. since at the loop it has to render some excess that doesnt get played.. the glitch is probably the removal of that excess...

You right, it's unavoidable for now. Unavoidable for us I see the future, and seems to me version 2.36 will fix this problem ))))))))))))) Funny...
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:01 AM   #114
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Has anyone experienced a less pronounced MIDI loop-glitch lately? As of ,say, version 2.030?

I did. But it's still here, aargh.

Cheers!
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:10 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuX
Has anyone experienced a less pronounced MIDI loop-glitch lately? As of ,say, version 2.030?
no. still the same problem here.


FIXED (2.99 alpha preview 1)

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Old 01-17-2008, 03:14 AM   #116
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Try to use any delay effect(with short sound) with the large amount of feedback (40-80 %)....i tell you - nothing changed)
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:27 AM   #117
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hmm, i think it works now?
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:42 AM   #118
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no. still needs to be fixed.


FIXED (2.99 alpha preview 1)

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Old 02-14-2008, 06:12 AM   #119
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Any news btw?
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:28 PM   #120
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...might as well keep bumping this so J & C will hopefully be reminded that they were going to try out some solutions for this.

I've been hearing that click at the start of a loop and it is annoying! That and losing the first note in the first pass of the loop some of the time, depending on the VST.

Please guys!...pretty please even?!
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