Old 05-28-2010, 11:50 PM   #121
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Default Dannii...

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Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Great work Mike. These are logical and intuitive.

A couple of small things:

* Importing ReaMenus #003 on my laptop (Win7 32 bit) made my REAPER (3.53 pre6) freeze. Once I force quit REAPER and relaunched it, the new menus came up and all is well.

* My main toolbar was replaced with a new one. I'm not sure if this is intentional but some of the buttons I created with my new Neve / Calrec theme don't seem to match the new functions. Resetting this toolbar to default restored things.

A side benefit to this second point is that I discovered some new buttons I need to skin for my new theme.
This also happened to me....what I did (just to see if there was a way around it):

I imported ReaMenus 3 and then left the room while it was frozen.....it took about 5 minutes, but they installed just fine and the freeze "lifted" without having to quit/relaunch Reaper.

- yep, the toolbar was replaced....so I went to the same menu (the customize Menu dialog) and hit the "reset" button on the bottom. It offers several options, one of which is to reset the toolbar to the default settings.

This reset my toolbar to the buttons I am familiar with at this point.

Hope that helps,
Jay
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:52 PM   #122
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Default Same here...

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Originally Posted by DBMusic View Post
I have this same problem saving the .ReaperMenuSet file. I save it to the Reaper/MenuSets folder and nothing gets saved. Even tried saving it to the desktop. Tried about a dozen times now. Nothing. But saving a file as a .ReaperMenu works fine. Not sure what the issue is.

Regards,

DB
What I did find out, however, is that if I go to the customize Menu dialog and just hit the "reset" button on the bottom, you are offered the option of resetting your menus and/or toolbar to the original defaults...worked like a champ.

I wound up re-installing the new ReaMenu 3...but I wanted to see if I could get back to the default settings as I, too, could not get anything to "appear" in the MenuSets folder after "exporting" the default menus/toolbar.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:06 AM   #123
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Attached is ReaMenus #003.zip (18.4 KB) for those with issues.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ReaMenus #003.zip (18.4 KB, 337 views)
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:15 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by vicenzajay View Post
This also happened to me....what I did (just to see if there was a way around it):

I imported ReaMenus 3 and then left the room while it was frozen.....it took about 5 minutes, but they installed just fine and the freeze "lifted" without having to quit/relaunch Reaper.

- yep, the toolbar was replaced....so I went to the same menu (the customize Menu dialog) and hit the "reset" button on the bottom. It offers several options, one of which is to reset the toolbar to the default settings.

This reset my toolbar to the buttons I am familiar with at this point.

Hope that helps,
Jay
Cheers Jay. I'll give your suggestion to just let it go a try and see what happens.

I did the same thing to reset my toolbar too.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:21 AM   #125
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Just a quick update... letting the import run did the trick. My toolbar stayed as I like it too.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:02 AM   #126
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Yeah, importing and saving longer menus takes a LOT (2 GHz dualcore with 2 gigs of RAM, WinXP SP2 here).

Which is weird since all it has to do is rewrite around 60 kB file! This could be a bug and Cockos should be made aware of it.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:10 AM   #127
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Default Great work

I would vote for not including the main toolbar as many users like to set this up to there own work flow for super quick editing or at least include the toolbar as a separate file so people can load it if they desire.


The FNG exstentions which are found in the developers forum are a much loved and missed addition and would be nice to have them included along with pardes lfo exstentions which can be found in the sws set

Thanks again

+1 for Default

EDIT...........

Confirmed loading remenus from a menu does not import custom toolbars but this could be easily be forgotten or remove continuity if relying on the toolbar for certain options.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:29 AM   #128
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Just tried this out, nice work! It does look extremely well organised. Heres my experience in case it helps you tune it.

I use mostly keyboard shortcuts or rightclick menus myself, the top menus are in a better state now from what I checked. Im personally more interested in how the rightclick menu has changed, overall its better, but some things are slower now for me in the track menu:

1. Save track templates was a one click process before, now its under Insert - Track from template - Save etc

I would prefer a Template menu directly on rightclick, with track and project template related actions in there. I use that a LOT though, might not be for everyone, just my experience.

2. The track actions are gone now? Cut/Copy /Remove/Duplicate should be under a Track menu imo.

To be honest I only ever used Duplicate Selected Tracks, and I have replaced that with the PT duplicate macro Ctrl-D, so no biggee for me...some new user will need it though.

3. You cant look at the rightclick menu anymore and see whether a track is visible in the tcp/mcp, now you need to open up the tracklist. Also I hid one in the tcp to test it and couldnt find a way to make only that track visible again from the mcp, so I just called up the sws tracklist window from my screenset and brought it back.

4. You cant check a tracks FIPM status from a quick rightclick, now you need to navigate to Free items.

5. Automatic record arming for track...where is that now? I dont use it at all so no prob to me.

6 . Automation modes is gone...again I dont use that.

7. SWS Snapshots and Extensions are gone...I have a screenset for the snapshots, but the extensions menu was cool sometimes, eg in case I forgot the shortcut for something.

Overall pretty cool though, and I like that I can always drop to the bottom of the menu for any default menu actions missing! Just giving you an experience from someone pretty comfortable with Reapers existing system...I will try this out for a while and see how it fits after some familiarity.

Anything that really bugs me Ill just assign a shortcut or use the default menu, so feel free to ignore my opinion.
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:03 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
2. The track actions are gone now? Cut/Copy /Remove/Duplicate should be under a Track menu imo.
...
6 . Automation modes is gone...again I dont use that.
I'm sure that with such a monumental achievement as this, there is bound to be the odd glitch or two, besides which I suspect there is room for genuine and valid different opinions on what should and what shouldn't be included.

For me, one of the great beauties of this system is that Mike has mapped out a system that anybody can easily adapt for their own needs, for example:



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Old 05-29-2010, 02:05 AM   #130
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Default Mixed

Although I feel this is far more elegant and streamlined I can't help feeling theres stuff missing , I certainly cant access the same commands from the tcp menus and find adding duplication tracks slower. I have a lot less options when dealing with items also and alot of the sws actions have been relegated to the extension menu or disappeared.

I do however love the reordering of the main menus especially the options menu.

Hear in true mashup fashion is my mix of Remenues and my customized producer set this is mainly aimed at producers of electronic music (cubase refugees)
It incoperates pardes lfo's and fingers groove quantize and other creative extensions as well as a fair few custom macros .

Just for Giggles
https://stash.reaper.fm/manage_file/5....ReaperMenuSet
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:07 AM   #131
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Nice going

The great thing is I loaded your menu sets to have a look , then loaded my partially completed set back over the top and it kept the the sets of yours that I hadn't altered. Hurray giving me a complete set.

Keep up the good work
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!

Thanks for all the hard work Mike!
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:29 AM   #132
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For me, one of the great beauties of this system is that Mike has mapped out a system that anybody can easily adapt for their own needs
I do know how to adapt it mate.

Some people have suggested this should be the new default for Reaper (and rightly so), so in keeping with that proposition its own default should be tweaked to optimum intuitive use.

eg if you right click on a track, you would expect track actions to be there somewhere by default, at least I think I would if I was a noob.

As I said earlier I am more a keyboard shortcut guy, I only use the menus when they are faster ie already using the mouse or forgot my shortcut.

Hopefully Mike only takes this as positive feedback! I do like it mostly...
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:47 AM   #133
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I do know how to adapt it mate.
Wouldn't have doubted it for a second ... just making a general observation, nothing more!

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Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
Some people have suggested this should be the new default for Reaper (and rightly so), so in keeping with that proposition its own default should be tweaked to optimum intuitive use.

eg if you right click on a track, you would expect track actions to be there somewhere by default, at least I think I would if I was a noob.
Absolutely!
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:58 AM   #134
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I like this quite a lot, thanks!
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:10 AM   #135
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We need to make forward progress and leave the past behind once in a while, we can't just keep spinning our wheels while new features and functionality bloat up the menus and GUI out of fear of losing the old stuff.
Let me make it very clear that I am absolutely, no questions asked, 100% with on this in spirit. You're just right and that's all there is to say on the matter.

BUT

The problem with this approach is similar to the problem with GUI mockups for Reaper, in that a fully designed solution (pretty much any designed solution) wins over the grown-in-stages condition we have, but only on the day its implemented. A few releases later all that lovely design purity will start to erode as things are added, changed and re-purposed. Reaper is developed in its own unique methodology, and I hope we can all agree that the positives in that methodology outweigh any negatives to a staggering degree. If so, then we're looking for a solution that recognises the development methodology, embraces it, and works with it. It seems to me there would be three ways of doing this:
  1. The community created menu set is a no-brainer download for new users, like the manual, SWS extensions amd my themes (*cough* j/k ) ...and someone asks Nicholas to do 2 versions of the manual for the default / community menu set. *HINT* you can't ask him to do that, its just not fair.
  2. Essentially the same but slicker, the community menu set is incorporated into the Reaper download as an option. Its not going to add much to the file size.
  3. The state of the community menu set is absorbed into Reaper on every major version change, and we accept that, firstly, it may get a touch ragged towards the end of each major version cycle, and secondly that some/many users will get very, very, veeeeeeeeery angry with having to relearn stuff.

If I'm correct that these are the only options (and I hope I'm not) then I would say that none of them are without question the way to go. Hence my BUT. Its a tricky decision IMO.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:18 AM   #136
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Although I feel this is far more elegant and streamlined I can't help feeling theres stuff missing
I have a lot less options when dealing with items also and alot of the sws actions have been relegated to the extension menu or disappeared.

I do however love the reordering of the main menus especially the options menu.
I quite like the item rightclick menu, lots of cool actions in easy to find places. Ill have to get more familiar with it, it seems very intuitive.

Some stuff I noticed missing here:

Cut/Copy/Remove/Loop of/Selected Area of/Selected Items. Otherwise the item menus seem improved considerably to me.

Continuing...Add FX Chain is missing from the FX menu, I use that a LOT.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:29 AM   #137
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Major version numbers is a good way to deliver major upgrades and restructuring, I believe.

Cockos would never abandon a buggy 3.xx version before they jump on v4 (or even after they do). Users can safely stick with 3.xx (just like some did with 2.5) if it works for them. And that gives more ground for Cockos to be evolutionary and revolutionary with Reaper 4.0, Reaper 5.0 and so on.

I'd like v4 to be as fresh as possible, especially on longstanding weak areas like the UI design/consistency/organization.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:36 AM   #138
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The more I play around with this MenuSet the more conflicted I'm getting over it... It is very well organized and laid out, and everything is 95% of the time exactly where you look for it, but all of the submenus make it so slow to navigate and finally click what you are looking for. I don't know how to solve this, Reaper is such a feature filled program that I can't think of any way around it other than to take frequently used functions and put them in the first level while maybe including some submenus for stuff that you rarely need to access.

This becomes extremely tricky however because (1) it's such a personal decision to figure out what functions are most important and need to be instantly accessible and (2) you begin to trade away the organization for the convenience of having a handful of unrelated features available in the first tier of the menu.

I am going to take a crack at streamlining the menus today... I fear it is going to feel a lot like going through my closet and throwing out clothes I don't wear, haha... There is going to be no remorse and no fear of regret, I am going to clean house mercilessly with no regard for anyone else's workflow!
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:42 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
This becomes extremely tricky however because (1) it's such a personal decision to figure out what functions are most important and need to be instantly accessible and (2) you begin to trade away the organization for the convenience of having a handful of unrelated features available in the first tier of the menu.
This is exactly the problem with different workflows and so many
parameters of customization, that there simply is no universal solution
for both quick access and intuitive organization.

I would agree to have this implemented as a default menu set of a new
mayor version of Reaper, as it would definitely be a better starting point
for people to start customizing their fast-access functions from a well
ordered set.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:59 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by rossh View Post
It seems pretty well unanimous that this improved menu structure is a great thing. Perhaps with Reaper version 4 probably not all that far away, maybe it would be a good idea for the devs to consider this as the default with the new major release. Also, considering Nicholas's suggestion of not abandoning the "classic" layout, an option to load the old layout may be included for a transitional period.

Just a thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBMusic View Post
I save it to the Reaper/MenuSets folder and nothing gets saved.
REAPER only saves menus that you've customized. For this and for people who want to revert to the old menus, ReaMenus will include a Default.ReaperMenuSet from now on (also kept up to date with the latest version of REAPER/SWS).

Quote:
* My main toolbar was replaced with a new one. I'm not sure if this is intentional but some of the buttons I created with my new Neve / Calrec theme don't seem to match the new functions. Resetting this toolbar to default restored things.
I had NO intention of replacing the Main toolbar. I asked about if I should, but I only meant to include the MIDI toolbars (I figured most people don't customize them and they could use the improvement). Sorry about that!

I gave me the idea to include with ReaMenus.ReaperMenuSet additionally ReaToolbars.ReaperMenuSet, so the people that want 'em, have 'em.

#004 will be up within a few hours including all of the suggestions made since #003.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:27 AM   #141
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I was just going to post that I can get my MenuSets to export, just menus, only to find the problem already defined and resolved. Thanks!
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:30 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
Some stuff I noticed missing here:

Cut/Copy/Remove/Loop of/Selected Area of/Selected Items. Otherwise the item menus seem improved considerably to me.
I've added a 'Clipboard' to the 'Media Items':
Copy/Cut/Remove selected area of selected items
Copy loop of selected area of items
Paste as as take in selected items

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
eg if you right click on a track, you would expect track actions to be there somewhere by default, at least I think I would if I was a noob.
If it could work that way, I would do it. But notice how when you click on the arrangement (not the tracks themselves), the track selection doesn't change. It would only be more confusing if you were trying to affect one track and were instead affecting another. That's why all the track stuff is in the track right-click menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
1. Save track templates was a one click process before, now its under Insert - Track from template - Save etc
While I can acknowledge the feature is useful, it definitely isn't common enough to put up top in the community mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
To be honest I only ever used Duplicate Selected Tracks, and I have replaced that with the PT duplicate macro Ctrl-D, so no biggee for me...some new user will need it though.
I've added duplicate selected tracks to the 'Insert' menu. As for copy/cut/paste, I think it's reasonable to expect people to use the keyboard for those, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
3. You cant look at the rightclick menu anymore and see whether a track is visible in the tcp/mcp
Could you ever do this? I searched all through the default menus for something resembling this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
5. Automatic record arming for track...where is that now? I dont use it at all so no prob to me.

6 . Automation modes is gone...again I dont use that.
Just right click on the record button or the automation button on any track for that stuff. That's why I removed it from the menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
Anything that really bugs me Ill just assign a shortcut or use the default menu, so feel free to ignore my opinion.
I like your spirit and I don't want to ignore your opinion. It's important that ReaMenus fit the community.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:39 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues View Post
REAPER only saves menus that you've customized. For this and for people who want to revert to the old menus, ReaMenus will include a Default.ReaperMenuSet from now on (also kept up to date with the latest version of REAPER/SWS).
There's another option.

Just go to your Reaper resource path, and (re)move the reaper-menu.ini to any other place. The menus will get reset on next Reaper start.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:07 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
  1. The community created menu set is a no-brainer download for new users, like the manual, SWS extensions amd my themes (*cough* j/k ) ...and someone asks Nicholas to do 2 versions of the manual for the default / community menu set. *HINT* you can't ask him to do that, its just not fair.
  2. Essentially the same but slicker, the community menu set is incorporated into the Reaper download as an option. Its not going to add much to the file size.
  3. The state of the community menu set is absorbed into Reaper on every major version change, and we accept that, firstly, it may get a touch ragged towards the end of each major version cycle, and secondly that some/many users will get very, very, veeeeeeeeery angry with having to relearn stuff.

If I'm correct that these are the only options (and I hope I'm not) then I would say that none of them are without question the way to go.
How any change is made must certainly be done with some manner of grace. Currently, we're in stage one of your list. (BTW, your blender theme is my favorite. I use a lot of your graphics in my home-brewed theme.) What has always left me unsatisfied with this option is that I HAVE to download the REAPER Manual and SWS extensions separately. The REAPER install is filled with JS from everywhen, but those two extraordinarily valuable community additions are not present. Why?

I can imagine reasons exist, but I can't fathom any that outweigh the fact that these tools are as much a part of the REAPER experience as REAPER itself.

Another possibility is that we use the plugin architecture to make it seem like the community menu set is the default menu. Of course, my research has yet suggested that menu items can only be added to the default menu, not removed or replaced. Of course, I could be very wrong about that and any help would be greatly appreciated.

The best idea is probably for the devs to draw on the community menus as often as they are able (once the initial transition is made, which I agree would be best at a major version milestone). Menus, in all honesty, are the least important thing for team REAPER to be thinking about as they update, but keeping their menu paradigm in sync with the community should be somewhere on their list of priorities. Just look at the hoopla about menus on this thread and on this one.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:11 AM   #145
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ReaMenus will include a Default.ReaperMenuSet from now on (also kept up to date with the latest version of REAPER/SWS).
OK, just a little bit confused here. I'm probably overlooking something as I have not installed the custom menu-set. But when I look at the menu-editor, I see two panes, one with the custom menu and one with the default menu. I also see an option to reset the custom menu back to the default. Doesn't this mean you can ALWAYS revert to the default (and I suppose this default updates with new Reaper versions).

I think Nicholas mentioned that anything missing from the new menu was still available at the bottom of the menu; in the menu editor this is a Reaper feature to include the default menu as a sub-menu at the bottom of the custom menu.

So is the custom menu template somehow overwriting the default or is everyone thinking the default gets lost while it isn't?
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:21 AM   #146
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So is the custom menu template somehow overwriting the default or is everyone thinking the default gets lost while it isn't?
Agreed, no default menuset file is needed, you can easily just hit reset to get the default menu back. Not sure how anyone could miss this!
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:29 AM   #147
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I agree with everyone that says that duplicate selected track should be in the first menu of the right click, but i think that this should be one of those personal preference things. for me, it's something i use alot. will i put it in the first right click menu? yes. but i think for a default menu, nice and neatly organized teh way in it in the appropriate folder is the way to go.

the beauty of reaper's system, to me, is that it is customizable. i don't want to download some default menu that's good for everyone on average and be stuck using that.

but this menu, well organized, as a good starting point, plus some nice little workflow additions reaper let's me use, is amazing.

so i think the list could go on forever of how individuals would prefer stuff, of what they use most and stuff like that. completely missing options i think might be an issue, but to me, just having everything grouped neatly in categories that make sense, the way this menu set is designed i think is the way to go, the way it should be, and i agree with packaging it with reaper.

i still think it would be neat to have a palce where you could download many different menu sets that people have made. maybe people might make a pro tools one, for pro tools users, or a cubase one for people coming from cubase or one for people using alot of midi, anot her for people using mostly audio. idk, it would be cool i think. but as your basic menu i think this one so far is great.

it's even worth it to me, go install it all and then go through and redo some of the changes i had made to the original set.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:39 AM   #148
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this is really great, thanks.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:53 AM   #149
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and I've made yet more great discoveries! - thanks so much for your hard work. Cockos should take these menus and give you a license for your troubles!
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:37 AM   #150
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Mike, can you clean up that oil spill? You seem to have a talent and passion for organization.

I continue to be thrilled with this new edition that also makes Reaper itself just "look" better.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:12 AM   #151
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Holy cow, just noticed that you included a tab for the original default menus under each drop down. Excellent. Also discovered there is a simple reset button to fully return to defaults if needed.

Great work, thanks.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:35 AM   #152
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can u attach reamenus 4 with direct zip. I can't seem to get it from stash. thanx
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:45 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzmandan View Post
Holy cow, just noticed that you included a tab for the original default menus under each drop down. Excellent.
Actually, that's not part of the new menus, it is a functionality of Reaper to add the default menu as a sub to every custom menu. It is switched on by default and kicks in as soon as you edit a menu or (probably) load another custom menu. You can switch it on and off in the menu editor
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:46 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
Mike, can you clean up that oil spill? You seem to have a talent and passion for organization.

I continue to be thrilled with this new edition that also makes Reaper itself just "look" better.
Thanks! You should hear my old music. It was literally clockwork compositions, with parts that fit within the grooves of other parts. It took me longer to draw the diagrams to understand the shapes in my head than to actually make the music. Nowadays, I'm a bit more relaxed.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:54 AM   #155
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Nevermind- clearing my internet cache allowed me to get ver 004! AWESOME!!!!!
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:05 AM   #156
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Mike, you really should consider adding version number to the zip file name. So, ReaMenus 004.zip instead of ReaMenus.zip.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:09 AM   #157
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These menus are really nice. I like that they take a strong stand on the issue of "why do I have to drill down multiple levels for a common task" vs "why is the menu so long" -- with these menus you almost always have to drill down, which gives a good sense of organization.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:20 AM   #158
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Quote:
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Mike, you really should consider adding version number to the zip file name. So, ReaMenus 004.zip instead of ReaMenus.zip.
I uploaded it with #004, but I was having the same cache problem as everyone else, it only let me download the old ReaMenus.zip, so then I uploaded 004 inside ReaMenus.zip and the download worked again.

It only occurred to me later that perhaps it was the # and the stash just wasn't throwing an error message, so next time, it'll be ReaMenus005.zip. Sorry for this weird problem.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:24 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
These menus are really nice. I like that they take a strong stand on the issue of "why do I have to drill down multiple levels for a common task" vs "why is the menu so long" -- with these menus you almost always have to drill down, which gives a good sense of organization.
The reason I went that route is because I believe that as people learn what functions they like, they will assign shortcut keys to make their lives VERY easy or else adjust the menu to their taste and make their lives just plain easy. I did my best to go to the third sub-level only rarely, either because the menu was too long (eg 'media item') or because the feature was very rarely needed (eg Options->Display->Lanes).
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:25 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues View Post
I uploaded it with #004, but I was having the same cache problem as everyone else, it only let me download the old ReaMenus.zip, so then I uploaded 004 inside ReaMenus.zip and the download worked again.

It only occurred to me later that perhaps it was the # and the stash just wasn't throwing an error message, so next time, it'll be ReaMenus005.zip. Sorry for this weird problem.
Thanks. You could also use Mediafire instead of the stash, that would cure your troubles completely.
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