Old 01-19-2014, 07:33 PM   #641
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I have visited your link here all your new songs are marvelous especially the lyrics of these songs are marvelous. Thanks for your posting it here and keep it up.
thanks so much.
Maybe I will.
And YOURS?
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:39 PM   #642
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i'm not at all trying to be insulting or hurtful, but before i press play on a new song post from you, i already know generally what to expect...and i come pretty close too many times. thus, i think to myself, "i just don't know what i can say about this song that i already havent' said because aside from a structural or instrumental difference, i really hear nothing new...even down to vocal melodies.
Hey Sam. I have been thinking a lot about what you said here, and have been trying to get a handle on it. I think I have.

It is about ARRANGEMENT. Tell me if you agree.

In spite of coming up with a new (even interesting) song with melody and chords, WHAT do I do with it? I hurry through my routine of arranging a song with the same basic kinds of instruments doing the same basic kinds of things in relation to each other, with some alternation and variation, but the same structure.

I think I get you as suggesting to me that if there is value in the basic melody and chords of a composition then that value demands more from me. It demands that I come up with an arrangement, an approach, a treatment, that is unique to that song, that delivers it with appropriate panache.

Right?

Thanks.
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:51 PM   #643
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couldn't have said it better. but i didn't imply anything (i hope) about "basic". complexity is part of your charm. but if the incorporation works, it works.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:11 PM   #644
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My 10c here is if there's a marked diversion from the main theme[s] in a piece and a natural resolution back to it, then a powerful effect can be achieved, and experimentation with just how far out and away from those main themes before returning is an added source of interest for both composer and listener.

Not saying I can do it, but I try. If you can bear it, listen to my song Pyscho Clown [sig link] beyond the despised repeating riff of hard rock gtrs - xylophone solo feat diminished arpeggios!
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:16 AM   #645
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couldn't have said it better. but i didn't imply anything (i hope) about "basic". complexity is part of your charm. but if the incorporation works, it works.
thanks. So the upshot for me is that I am going to STOP starting out with a pre-fab template. Start from scratch each time, adding only what is "called for".

Arranging is one of the most important and least taught skills in music.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:20 AM   #646
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Default home, leaving home, returning home

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My 10c here is if there's a marked diversion from the main theme[s] in a piece and a natural resolution back to it, then a powerful effect can be achieved, and experimentation with just how far out and away from those main themes before returning is an added source of interest for both composer and listener.

Not saying I can do it, but I try. If you can bear it, listen to my song Pyscho Clown [sig link] beyond the despised repeating riff of hard rock gtrs - xylophone solo feat diminished arpeggios!
Yeah, I think I hear what you mean. THANKS.

Years ago, my father - a traditional and non-musical guy but with imagination - asked me about my music. He wanted to know (in his words) what STORY was being told in my music. Although I didn't like him forcing a term from literature onto music, I did answer it. And I answered it by saying that the story of music (esp pop, rock, jazz) is that there is a HOME, and then the song LEAVES home and goes somewhere, and then RETURNS home after having gone somewhere. But as in life, when we have been "out there", coming home does not mean we haven't changed. The experience of getting out beyond the bounds of home actually ends up enriching home.

Know what I mean?
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:33 AM   #647
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thanks. So the upshot for me is that I am going to STOP starting out with a pre-fab template. Start from scratch each time, adding only what is "called for".

Arranging is one of the most important and least taught skills in music.
Definitely YES! didn't know that you started with a "pre-fab template". that would explain everything! START FROM SCRATCH EACH TIME>no wiser words...
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:51 PM   #648
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Default Myopiphobia

New song, with much more time spent on it than usual.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...79-myopiphobia

I have also been working on some quietier, folkier songs. But I hate my voice and I can't sing, so that leads to some problems. But will not give it up.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:12 PM   #649
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sounds like fresh air, even if just the recording itself. 1:04 was a definite attention grabber. but then again, there's quite a few 'phases' that are commanding. simultaneously one of your most palatible and interesting tunes to date to me. i see when you're determined to do something, it gets done.
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:21 PM   #650
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Myopiphobia
All good and interesting. If I was arranging this, the one thing I might add would be a plain part. This is consistent with my former suggestion about really stepping out with a bridge part; in the case of your compositions, the verse/chorus parts are more like eg my bridge parts, the 'out there' parts, all good, but I would then add a straight-ahead part [straight 4/4 rhythm with insts moving unidirectionally and harmonically for example] to counter-complement those other parts.

The concerns about your singing is totally unwarranted imo, sounds fine to me.

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Old 01-25-2014, 08:22 AM   #651
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Myopiphobia
All good and interesting. If I was arranging this, the one thing I might add would be a plain part. This is consistent with my former suggestion about really stepping out with a bridge part; in the case of your compositions, the verse/chorus parts are more like eg my bridge parts, the 'out there' parts, all good, but I would then add a straight-ahead part [straight 4/4 rhythm with insts moving unidirectionally and harmonically for example] to counter-complement those other parts.

The concerns about your singing is totally unwarranted imo, sounds fine to me.
Thanks morgan.

I will tell you something about my writing process, and perhaps it is something I should change. When I get in a mood, I write that mood. The result strongly tends to be that when writing simple things, it is all simple, and when writing complex things, there is no simple in it.

Yeah. Maybe mixing them up is advised, for contrast and drama. Good point.

And vocals are bugging me because I write melodies that are apparently hard for me to track and sing on the note. My voice wanders off note a lot. I don't hear it so much while singing, and a take can sound good, but then when I listen to it (critically) I hear the flatness/sharpness and it irks.

Yeah, I know there are two answers. One is to write simpler. The other is learn to be a vocalist.

I can always count on you to comment in the middle of my night, eh?
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:30 AM   #652
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Default mixing voices versus managing them

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sounds like fresh air, even if just the recording itself. 1:04 was a definite attention grabber. but then again, there's quite a few 'phases' that are commanding. simultaneously one of your most palatible and interesting tunes to date to me. i see when you're determined to do something, it gets done.
Hey. You agree with my wife!?!?!
thanks

One of the things I am learning is that when there are lots of elements/instruments, they have to be tamed, arranged more. Can't let their energies produce cacophony, so envelopes have to be employed to find the PRIMARY thing at any moment, and make all the other things serve that. Like in the circus, the animal trainer can't let the tigers and the bears out to prance around at the same time. At least not for the public

I would suggest that this factor is one of the distinctions between mainstream (older) jazz and more avant garde/contemp jazz. The old stuff (played even today by old-minded players) has ONE soloist at a time, and during that guy's solo everyone else lays off.

But most adventurous jazz, or even most competent jazz, nowadays, involves multiple and simultaneous improve between players, resulting in a boisterous tapestry of sound. Note that the tapestry effect goes way back. Dixieland and big band eras and bebop too HAD that kind of complex jazzy "wall of sound" weaving together wild shit. But it was always replaced by a more pop version of jazz that was easier to listen to.

Check out Henry Threadgill and Django Bates, for example.

thanks as always. Howz yer job going?
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:14 AM   #653
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"...find the PRIMARY thing at any moment..."
i think that says it all for indiv. song distinction...as long as it doesn't become monotonous, which is not the case here. you employed the idea well.

as for the job, i briefly considered relocation to the city where the main office is located, but after a quick 'perusal', there's no way i could live there. i'm no biggot in any way--literally, some of my closest friends are non-black--but that place is a 99.9% white, hicky Georgia town, and i can't live with that lack of people variety. i'd be totally depressed. so i still have to make that gas guzzling commute for a while.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:46 PM   #654
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"...find the PRIMARY thing at any moment..."
i think that says it all for indiv. song distinction...as long as it doesn't become monotonous, which is not the case here. you employed the idea well.

as for the job, i briefly considered relocation to the city where the main office is located, but after a quick 'perusal', there's no way i could live there. i'm no biggot in any way--literally, some of my closest friends are non-black--but that place is a 99.9% white, hicky Georgia town, and i can't live with that lack of people variety. i'd be totally depressed. so i still have to make that gas guzzling commute for a while.
Strange.

That's kind of what I keep saying about America, but I am still here. You are right about finding variety, and getting into a scene where homogeneity is actively countered. And not just in music ...
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:12 AM   #655
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Default Dishonest Wind

Here is a jazz-orchestral circus piece.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...dishonest-wind
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:22 AM   #656
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Interesting exploration.

The drums sound minimal and good... how did you do the drum track?
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:33 AM   #657
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Interesting exploration.

The drums sound minimal and good... how did you do the drum track?
Here is a vague description. Listen to the section (the verse, B, C etc.) and get a sense of its rhythm. Open up EZdrummer and find something that goes with it but has its own character, and change up the drums (variations) inside the section. In this particular case I did want to deemphasize drums so I opened up some of the items in midieditor and (as I often do) I softened the loudest stuff. And using the mouse, I clicked in some color bits to give it life where I wanted. Also particular to this piece, I added what I consider to be a fun and useful plugin - JS: reverseness, but just about 20%.

thanks, TL.

Here is todays song, somewhat similar to yesterday's, but different.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...939281-idyllic
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:39 AM   #658
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Default stuck notes huh?

dammit.

I discovered while playing the last two songs off of Reverbnation that they were marred by "stuck notes". This happens sometimes, and I don't know when or why, in tracks of MIDI notes that sound great if you listen to them alone, and sometimes when listening to the whole song, but then upon Render, some note along the way won't turn off and just drones for a while. WTF?

Anyway my workaround is to freeze to stem and then re-render. So I have done that in this thread with my last two songs.

Again, thanks to all for advice and inspiration, whether you guys are male guys or gal guys, I don't care!
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:31 PM   #659
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I did a kinda of a rave rave tune here with some pitched up rasta vox, slow build with plenty of atnmosphere, I hope, give a listen and post ure comments much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBSziTuDJY4
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:48 AM   #660
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I did a kinda of a rave rave tune here with some pitched up rasta vox, slow build with plenty of atnmosphere, I hope, give a listen and post ure comments much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBSziTuDJY4
I liked the tone and it was well done. But if you know my taste, you know I want more theme and variation, more foregrounding, more melodic interplay, less repetition. But, good job and thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:54 AM   #661
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i got the notification for this with the vid attached to email and had to check to make sure it said "msore". thought you made a 360 degree turn!
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:00 AM   #662
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[laughing] Not my kind of stuff, but most of the music in the world is not.

I am trying to be more open. 99 percent of young people in the USA have never heard, or heard of, the music that I value. So I am in a shrinking old-fogey minority.

Interestingly, my 30-yr-old daughter came to live with us for a while, and she is going through my CD collection, discovering that both she and her baby LIKE JAZZ. And she didn't even know it.

So mentally I am making a contract with younger generations. If they give jazz a chance, and great old music a chance, I will give their music more chances.

Patience... patience...
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:46 PM   #663
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This one - you may not believe this -
is a kind of valentine.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...ng-in-the-mind
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:35 PM   #664
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this had sort of an ethereal feel, like erratically floating down a mysterious, dark cavern. just a touch of spooky.
nice mix on top.

not quite as danceable as your last, though...
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:18 PM   #665
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this had sort of an ethereal feel, like erratically floating down a mysterious, dark cavern. just a touch of spooky.
nice mix on top.

not quite as danceable as your last, though...
Danceability is NOT music. The more danceable a piece is - generally - the LESS musical it is.

What I like and what my sweetie likes is NOT danceability.

Ethereal? Mysterious? Dark Cavern? YEAH!!!
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:25 PM   #666
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you do know i was talking about the video, right? hah!
i think the day you write a dance song is the day
i have naturally blond hair and blue eyes.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:50 PM   #667
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Danceability is NOT music. The more danceable a piece is - generally - the LESS musical it is.

What I like and what my sweetie likes is NOT danceability.

Ethereal? Mysterious? Dark Cavern? YEAH!!!
Though I disagree somewhat over the danceability thing [what about the classics? -the ones designed for the ballroom/dancehall, what about my album? ] and I kinda trolled you for it on the typing thread, I do like this song.

Sounds cinematic, the backgrounds are reminiscent of some video games, Doom 64 I think, the temple level haha, stepping perilously close to Goth metal [if that's the phrase] there msore, a single heavy rhythm gtr issuing isolated sustained power chords in the middle background would just about have completed the conversion, anyways good stuff.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:18 AM   #668
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Though I disagree somewhat over the danceability thing [what about the classics? -the ones designed for the ballroom/dancehall, what about my album? ] and I kinda trolled you for it on the typing thread, I do like this song.

Sounds cinematic, the backgrounds are reminiscent of some video games, Doom 64 I think, the temple level haha, stepping perilously close to Goth metal [if that's the phrase] there msore, a single heavy rhythm gtr issuing isolated sustained power chords in the middle background would just about have completed the conversion, anyways good stuff.
Thanks M. My anti-danceability statement was harsh, and there are exceptions, but it does reflect my sensibility and it does reflect history. The times when music was worst, were the times danceability ruled.

case in point - disco.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:19 AM   #669
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you do know i was talking about the video, right? hah!
i think the day you write a dance song is the day
i have naturally blond hair and blue eyes.
Be careful blue-eyes! If you challenge me, I might just do it! I've got some BeeGees in me!
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:48 AM   #670
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NOOOOOOOOooooooooo!
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:30 PM   #671
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This one - you may not believe this -
is a kind of valentine.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...ng-in-the-mind
An avant-garde valentine. I like the sonic (EQ) balance.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:33 PM   #672
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And thanks for your drum info earlier.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:55 PM   #673
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Thanks TL.

Anything my honey wants!
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:15 PM   #674
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Default Sonny West

Today's song was written, recorded, mixed all this morning.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...806-sonny-west

It is short but builds up. It has fast and non-fast parts. The verse and bridge contrast but are consistent with each other. It is definitely not over-produced. What do you think? Danceable? All in 4/4!

EDIT: I fixed a couple of glitches and the url above reflects the change.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:03 PM   #675
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Today's song was written, recorded, mixed all this morning.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...806-sonny-west

It is short but builds up. It has fast and non-fast parts. The verse and bridge contrast but are consistent with each other. It is definitely not over-produced. What do you think? Danceable? All in 4/4!
The part at 0.42 and 2.45 sounds Beatlesque, and the part at .52 sounds James Bondish, featuring those parts more as main themes would be a more 'regular' approach, they serve as good dynamics in any case. Cheers -m
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:46 PM   #676
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Default Drink It In Live It Out

today's song is busy, but not that complicated.

http://www.reverbnation.com/msorenso...in-live-it-out
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:39 PM   #677
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Hi m. I haven't listened to anything for dozens of tracks now. Can I just say 'good drums'?
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:32 AM   #678
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Hello Msore,

Please could you make a selection of your fav tunes out of all these and post a 320 kbps mp3 zip folder on dropbox or mediafire ? Like an album lenght thing. My primary listening time is commuting so it would handy when in tearing it up at 150 km/hr.

You can pm me if you dont wanna share it here.

Thanks
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:34 AM   #679
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Hello Msore,

Please could you make a selection of your fav tunes out of all these and post a 320 kbps mp3 zip folder on dropbox or mediafire ? Like an album lenght thing. My primary listening time is commuting so it would handy when in tearing it up at 150 km/hr.

You can pm me if you dont wanna share it here.

Thanks
I don't know what "favorite" means. I like tunes that do different things at different times, with different voices.

Instead of sending you something, I am just going to go to my current list of songs on Reverbnation and set them all to be downloadable. Grab what you want.

As for this thread, I am going to stop posting here. I really appreciate the feedback I have gotten, but there are other things for me to be doing in the next year or so.

all the best.
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