Old 07-08-2008, 06:07 AM   #1
spikemullings
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Default Gram Parsons Cover - Greivous Angel

OK this is too ambitious for me really and consequently I've been trying mix this one for ages.

Well I guess at some point you have to let it go, and that point is now.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/154750/...2008%20MP3.mp3

I would be really grateful for any critique (hell, I'll be grateful if anyone listens to it ) - I am well aware of my limitations so please do not hold back.

The playing is all my fault except for the electric guitar which is courtesy of my fine friend Johnny Walsom in a rare twang-ful mood.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:58 PM   #2
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hi spikemullings!
Your music (not vocal) has a small problem an antiphase.
Some instruments disappear in mono mode

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Old 07-09-2008, 01:37 AM   #3
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Oh dear!

OK thanks Mike, I'll need to have a listen for that. While I understand what you mean in theory, can you give me some pointers to look out for in practice?
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikemullings View Post
Oh dear!

OK thanks Mike, I'll need to have a listen for that. While I understand what you mean in theory, can you give me some pointers to look out for in practice?
Press the stereo/mono button on the master track Spike - if some of your instruments disappear that will be it

Of course I'm pulling your leg, It's the first time I've heard of antiphase.

The backing especially the mandolin sounds good - the vocal has a good humured quality that makes me smile.

Unfortunately I'm distracted by the lead guitar which sounds unnecessarily brash for this track and it stomps all over the other instruments. Of course it's all a matter of taste but I'm thinking if this had a more laid back and delicate sort of Ry Coodery guitar it would be just dandy.

Hope that's not too harsh but you did ask

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Old 07-09-2008, 06:01 PM   #5
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Sometimes I have this problem too. I had the help from Loser.
The timbre and balance of a mix should not change in mono mode. Usually this problem do some vst reverberators and flangers.
Also is actual for many people - detailed and depth of a mix. I am mistaken with it very often.
By the way, interesting idea from psycho acoustics: the width of a panorama should correspond the Fletcher-Munson curve. It reduces a load of the processor of a brain and does a sound by more comfortable.

Here I tried to change width of frequency balance of a panorama:
(if so is possible to speak )

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/155859/...un09%20MP3.mp3

It seems to me, the lead guitar does not dominate now?

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Old 07-10-2008, 12:58 PM   #6
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Ted: Harsh? Are you mad? What you say is exactly the sort of stuff I want to know, especially from an axe-meister like you. But tell me, are you talking about the instrumental break or all the way through? I have the vocal sidechained to duck the guitar (ooh, get me!) (wait, or is the other way round?) but maybe it is not smooth (or effective) enough?

Mike: thanks very much for taking the time to do this. I am not in a position to listen just now but will do so ASAP. I am really interested to hear this.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:20 PM   #7
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I mean all the way through, but especially in the solo. having said that what ever Mike did to the track made a big difference, and that was on an mp3!

Now you know the guitar doesn't come in for a bit does it, as I listened to the first verse I was thinking I know what that needs, guitar tone and style wise - I have that permanently etched on my brain, to save me explaining here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxGpm...eature=related

One thing I learned from listening to Ry Cooder is that you can play loud enough to be heard and still let other instruments to come through as well - it's all about punctuation, Ry Cooder is a master of it, but don't let that put you off.

I'd be happy to have a stab at an alternate track to show you what I mean if you like Spike.

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Old 07-10-2008, 02:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post

I'd be happy to have a stab at an alternate track to show you what I mean if you like Spike.
Well, I can't turn that down big fella!

I'm a bit drunk and a bit tired right now but give us a day or two and I'll put up a lead-less mix for you to have at it.

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Old 07-10-2008, 08:37 PM   #9
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You got me smiling with this one Spike. Vocals are quite good. The singing has a very homey relaxed feel. That is you singing I assume. Hmmm... where is the British accent?

I think that you've done an all around good job. The backing track is very good. I do agree that the lead guitar is a bit too much out front, but to my ear, it is just a little too loud. I do wonder what Ted will do with the lead though. It is bound to be a treat.

I like Mike1's mix too.

T
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
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You got me smiling with this one Spike. Vocals are quite good. The singing has a very homey relaxed feel. That is you singing I assume. Hmmm... where is the British accent?

T
Tspring - pedant that I am, I feel the need to correct you here; there is no such thing as a "British accent". Britain consists of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and the Channel Islands.

If you are referring to that strange dialect Dick Van Dyke was speaking in in Mary Poppins, nobody talks like that in any part of Britain I know of.

Londoners do not say Allroit Mite when they mean alright mate, but you will note the "T" is replaced with a gluteral stop.

I believe our mutual friend Spike heralds from an obscure province of London where the dialect is oft mistaken for those to which we accustomed to hearing from our cousins across the pond.

Hope that clears that up


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Old 07-11-2008, 12:57 PM   #11
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Heh...Ted,I fit in quite well with you and Spike. All three of us seem to be pedants.

I've spent a few weeks in the UK of over the years, and I realize that talking about a "British accent" is a bit of a non-sequitur. Example: A couple of years ago while I was there, I had the pleasure of meeting a beautiful young woman from Wales. I *believe* that she was speaking English and not Welch, but I'm still trying to figure out what she said.

But English dialects aren't unique to the UK either. When I lived in East Texas, I had a neighbor who I spoke to nearly every day. He had such a strong East Texas accent that I don't believe that I fully understood a single sentence he said in all the time we lived there.

I once read a quote that was something like: "The Americans and the English are one people divided by a common language". That truly is an over-simplification, isn't it.

T

EDIT: Sorry Spike. Note to self: Must not steal threads. Must not steal threads. Must not steal...
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:44 PM   #12
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What'd he say??
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #13
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It's A Maryland Thing, You Wouldn't Understand.

(Hey, I'm from there, it's all good.)

This style of song is not really my bag, so I'm not sure how applicable the following is. Everything but the lead guitar (even in Mike's mix) seemed fine, but the lead was both too "out front" and not "out front" enough at the same time, in my opinion.

What does that mean? I don't know. I guess I have come to expect a lead to be dynamically only slightly higher than background, but effects-wise to be separate. It seemed to me that a bit (more?) reverb, while dropping the overall output might cause it to stand out while not being overwhelming.

Your best bet, though, is probably to disregard all that as crap and do what seems right to you.

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Old 07-12-2008, 04:49 AM   #14
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Mad as it may sound I think I agree with you Rik.

it sounded potentially very good to my ear, I couldn't exactly say the guitar was too high in the mix (except in the solo) but I did think it would sound better with a tone that cuts through - maybe it's the ducking thing and maybe it's the tone, (or both).

The vocal is quite up front but it sounds good the way it is. I'm not sure ducking is good practice for electric guitars, it might work in some isolated cases but I don't think this is one of them. I think it's more a case of playing when there's a space to fill and backing off when the vox is out front.

I don't know if the solo was punched in separately but it does seem to dominate the rest of the track, lowering the level would help but I have my doubts it would really add anything to the rest of the track afterward though. I'm thinking it wants something in sympathy with the vocal as a counterpoint
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
I'd be happy to have a stab at an alternate track to show you what I mean if you like Spike.
Hey Ted, my fret-bothering friend, check your PM.

I have the project file and an OGG without lead plank for you.

Have at it!

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Old 07-13-2008, 04:57 AM   #16
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Many thanks for taking me up on my offer to play a bit of guitar on your lovely track Spike - it's just my kind of thing

Here's the track with my guitar added.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/51959/GrevusAngel.mp3

In the solo I mixed in a bit from my first attempt because it was a bit more exciting - the old light and shade trick.

It's pretty much what I had in mind, I think there is plenty of guitar in there now to add to the overall texture of the mix but nothing that detracts from the original flavour of the song.


I might be deluded though - make your own minds up.

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Old 07-13-2008, 08:28 AM   #17
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That's great Ted! Really excellent twang.

Can you let us know the details please, guitar, amp?, sim? and fx chain etc.

Also it wants mixing in properly - folks, Ted's done an excellent job but all he had was a stereo render to add his stuff on top of.

Don't worry if you're busy or whatever but it would great to get the stems from you and mix 'em in.

The two guitar thing in the instrumental break is great - sounds like Spike Mullings' All Stars Band

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Old 07-16-2008, 03:34 PM   #18
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I tried to listen to the track at post #16 but I couldn't download the file.

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Old 07-17-2008, 12:55 AM   #19
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Oops Looks like Mediafire has messed the file up, not to worry Pete, I believe Spike is going to do a mix anyway, in the meantime though here's the basic thing i did with Spikes track uploaded to Stashbox - hope it works ok

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/51959/GrevusAngel.mp3


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Old 07-17-2008, 04:10 PM   #20
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Listened to the track on headphones, because I've just got back from a rehearsal and it's late.

I like it. It's got a good natural feel. The mandolin really adds.

Tedwood's bright guitar sits well in the track. It's got an Eagles vibe to me and I mean that as a compliment. Tedwood, I'd be interested in how you got the sound.

It's very minor, but on a quick listen, I wasn't sure about some of the snare fills just after 4:00, but it's very late so I might be wrong about that. Damn I've just noticed it's 00:20, I'll never get up in the morning.

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Old 07-19-2008, 05:17 AM   #21
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Hi Pete, not to hijack Spike's thread - (consider it a bump)

The trick to getting the bright sound on the guitar lies in the signal being input.

I used my G&L Legacy in the in-between positions (neck for the main part and bridge for the solo part) the guitar has a good vintage alnico clean strat sound and can do a good Knopfler impersonation through a nice amp. However it doesn't sound like that straight into Reaper even with a DI box, so I equalize a better tone on my Spirit Folio mixer before it gets to the sound card. In this instance I cut the bass quite drastically and added a pinch of a certain frequency in the upper mids add gave it a little boost in the highs.

In Reaper the main part was recorded using Guitar Rig 3 with The Tweed amp, the cabinets and microphones in GR 3 can make a lot of difference and took a fair bit of tuning, I was aiming to get the guitar sounding clean on single notes but just breaking up on double notes an chords, I also added some delay, but no reverb. No other FX were used

The solo guitar part went through the GR3 Gratifier head and I switched over to my bridge pickup combination, the bridge pickup itself is a little Duncan stacked Jeff Beck, I used a a fair bit of delay on this part timed at about two thirds of a beat

I'm flattered at the Eagles comment Pete - how could it be anything other than a compliment?
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:28 AM   #22
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I've only listened to the original mix, but I like it. I don't mind the lead as it is. I thought it was quite a well-balanced mix.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:54 AM   #23
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Default Over 5000 views and counting!

Spike,

What is going on with this song? Over 5000 views, and counting??!?!?

It is a great song and recording. But... methinks I should get to know you better.


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Old 08-05-2008, 02:09 PM   #24
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Huh? Shurely shome mishtake!

I'm meant to be re-mixing this with Ted's fantastic guitar parts (although I am loyally and truthfully sticking by Johnny Walsom's original parts as well, which I really like) but work is on top of me and I'm away with the family for couple of weeks from Saturday. Ah well, Bob Katz's Mastering Audio is part of my holiday reading so let's hope mojo/osmosis/tranference does its thang!
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:18 AM   #25
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Default Huh?

Hey Mods, what in the wide, wide world of sports is going on with the view counter?

No way has this has over 8K views
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:28 PM   #26
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Might have something to do with the thread title Spike, prolly turning up in search results everywhere.

I doubt they're all Reaper users viewing it

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Old 08-27-2008, 01:05 AM   #27
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Hey Spike, here in Devon we say 'Oooh aaar, moiy dear, where be they to then?' I have no idea what it means. Cool guitar playin Ted.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:13 AM   #28
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Not sure whether the Mods will allow it, but you could try putting in a link for donations to a Paypal account. With so many views, there’s got to be a statistical probability that you’ll get some takers.

Oh, and if this works, I think I’m entitled to 10% for the idea

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Old 08-28-2008, 12:56 AM   #29
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15% an a second hand strat
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