Old 02-21-2014, 11:41 AM   #41
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OK, you've piqued my interest. I don't know much about "electronic music". I have no idea how what 'EDM' is. I have heard of 'trance', but couldn't define it. But I'm willing to learn!

How 'bout a quick run-down and links to some of this music that is generally accepted as top of the form(s)?

There might be some new (to me) tasty stuff I've been missing out on.
Here's a representation of some great dancefloor drum'n'bass (some of my fave)

http://www.kmag.co.uk/editorial/feat...guest-mix.html

There's a download link after the interview for the mix.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:08 PM   #42
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Hey Dave,

The York Minster TD gig was one of the early Ricochet ones I believe. I suspect some of the stuff on the album may have come from there - my 1975 bootleg recording sure sounds like it.

I remember they set up all the Moog stuff (towering banks of it) and left it on running for a day or so, and the roadies swapped modules in and out which weren't up to spec/failed.

Banks of speakers down the central aisle - super stereo sound, quite early on for many groups. The first I heard was Curved Air with Sonja, Francis (remember he did those organ recordings I pointed you to on a different thread) et al ...

db
Those organ recordings are very inspiring. I still have to get to my friend's place with my laptop so I can download more of them.
My dad said the TD gig he did support for was the loudest and cleanest PA he'd ever heard at the time.

As mentioned earlier, here's the video of the improvisation I did a while ago with my keyboard rig and REAPER. Yes, that actually is me in the video. I have changed somewhat since then!! (understatement of the year there!)
Most of the regular folk here in REAPER land know my full story so I won't repeat it here (don't want to completely derail this topic!)

Anyway, here's the video.....

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Old 03-25-2014, 09:59 AM   #43
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I was big in trance, electronic and psytrance from 2000 to around 2006, haven't really kept up since then. I got Reaper a couple years back to use virtual guitar fx, amp sims, and record live music; but about six months ago, I discovered MIDI programming and have played around making electronica versions of some of my songs written for guitar. In some ways, I find it easier than trying to get a good live recording, since I can be very precise with MIDI piano roll, and I'm pretty inexperienced with live recording (well, with all aspects of Reaper).

Once I started playing around with creating electronica, I realized that the music I'm making lacks the elements I really loved in progressive trance, the rising pitches, white noise sweeps, dramatic builds/breaks. I've been trying to figure out how to do that stuff, I guess with envelopes (?) but have not found time. There really needs to be more focused Reaper tutorials on electronica and trance elements. I've resigned myself to watching YouTube videos that show how to do stuff in FL Studio or Ableton or some other DAW and then trying to figure out how to do that stuff in Reaper. Well, that's my current plan, but I have not found time to carry through on it. I was just hopping onto Reaper today to make another desperate search for some threads that might give me some more direct and helpful advice on this stuff, and came across this thread.

I'd be very open to any discussion group on making electronica with Reaper, maybe we can ultimately collaborate on putting together some good tutorials to post on YouTube.

One thing that I think would be very helpful, at least to me, would be sharing the Reaper song files. Specifically, if anyone has used Reaper to create progressive trance-type effects, like sweeping or rising pitches or that sort of classic progressive trance building, swooping, slowing & speeding up, etc., and would be willing to send me the Reaper file for the song, I could just open it up in my Reaper program and see, first hand, what was used to make the various sounds/effects. It's possible I've used some effects that others might be interested in, too, and would be willing to share those song files if anyone is interested. You can find my works-in-progress on my Soundcloud page (linked below).

If anyone is willing to send me a Reaper song file that uses the kind of effects I talk about above, send me a message here or on Soundcloud.

p.s. Any other fans of Hooj Choons label?
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:15 PM   #44
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Well I'm making some sort of progressive/deep house with trance elements using REAPER exclusively. I started with Live but I can't find anything I can't do with REAPER that I could with Live. Maybe the session view, but not really.

I thought about making some tutorials but I'm not a good teacher/speaker. Maybe I'll try someday, who knows.
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Old 03-25-2014, 02:30 PM   #45
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One thing that I think would be very helpful, at least to me, would be sharing the Reaper song files. Specifically, if anyone has used Reaper to create progressive trance-type effects, like sweeping or rising pitches or that sort of classic progressive trance building, swooping, slowing & speeding up, etc., and would be willing to send me the Reaper file for the song, I could just open it up in my Reaper program and see, first hand, what was used to make the various sounds/effects.
The problem with this is that you need the same synths / effects as the person sending you the song file.

I agree, though, that tutorials for that kind of music would be great!
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:30 PM   #46
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Well, I have downloaded a crapload of free synths and stuff. I would not be surprised if I have all the same synths, if they are free.

I was also thinking that the sort of effects I find hard to grasp, learn, are more likely to involve very basic FX, maybe built-in stuff that comes with Reaper. Like to create a white noise sweep, or some kind of buzzing noise that rises or falls in pitch.

Also, what really happens if you import a song without having all the same synths? You may still get the track, the MIDI, maybe even the envelope data...maybe you can just add a different synth of the appropriate type (lead, pad, saw, whatever) and it'll work? I don't know.

I just think it's possible this could be helpful despite the lack of identical plug ins, and I'd still like to try if anyone else is open to sharing, or wants me to share any of my stuff.

I guess if I really liked some one's track, and wanted to recreate a sound they did, and they used plug in that cost money for that sound, that might very well persuade me to go buy it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:38 PM   #47
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NowoTone:

I guess the same issue arises for collaboration, right? Speaking of which, anyone want to collaborate on an electronica project? Maybe some one good at white noise, sweep sounds, drums lines?
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:55 PM   #48
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Nowo, I checked out some of your songs and really like them.

I have mixed feelings about trying to learn to do the risers, swells, transitions, etc., that proliferate trance music. If that's your thing, that's cool. But everyone is trying to do the same things and no one is going to do it as well as those who lead the field. At best, IMO, you're aspiring to copy a sound. I think it is more interesting to hear different sounds and creative ways to connect different segments of songs together using your own imagination and sound design techniques. Trial and error, accident, etc. -- those things are your friends.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:17 AM   #49
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I was also thinking that the sort of effects I find hard to grasp, learn, are more likely to involve very basic FX, maybe built-in stuff that comes with Reaper. Like to create a white noise sweep, or some kind of buzzing noise that rises or falls in pitch.
From all the tutorials I watched I would say that these effects are also more reliant on synths than on FX. Unfortunately the problem with free synths is that there seem to be a lot less tutorials on youtube.


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Also, what really happens if you import a song without having all the same synths? You may still get the track, the MIDI, maybe even the envelope data...maybe you can just add a different synth of the appropriate type (lead, pad, saw, whatever) and it'll work? I don't know.
In my case from a harmonic point of view that would probably be fairly boring, as my trancy songs are often based on very few chords. If I remember correctly, if you replace a synth then the envelope lanes belonging to that synth also disappear, but I woud have to check that.

A while ago, I collaborated with someone and he sent me his reaper file for the song we worked on. As it was a pop song, the midi instruments which were to be replaced with real ones weren't too taxing in terms of replacing them with corresponding VSTis I have. However it still sounded nothing like it did on his Soundcloud version of the song. I imagine for electronica it would be a lot worse.


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NowoTone:

I guess the same issue arises for collaboration, right? Speaking of which, anyone want to collaborate on an electronica project? Maybe some one good at white noise, sweep sounds, drums lines?
No for collaborating you don't need the Reaper files at all, otherwise you could just work with other Reaper users. When I'm collaborating, I exchange the actual song files or stems.

I'm generally open to collaboration, but I'm quite bad at what you need Apart from that anything I like and which isn't urgent - why not?
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:59 AM   #50
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I've always found the term "electronic music" a little strange. A major portion of the music we've heard most of our lives since at least the middle of the 20th century until now has been made "electronically". Almost all of what we hear now is. Even acoustic instruments become "electronic" once they've been recorded.

But besides that little technicality I do understand the distinction that you guys are making; that whole group of musical sub-genres classified as "electronic". Unfortunately most of them seem to have a criteria of thumping TR-808 or 909 bass drums. I tend to like more ambient experimental stuff of the electronic avant-garde, like the artists one finds on the OHM: Early Gurus of Electronic Music compilation that came out several years ago just as an example. With that said, my own contributions to this group will be more along those ambient, experimental lines. I just joined and am looking forward to anything that may happen. I'm also totally open to collaborations.

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Old 03-26-2014, 09:46 AM   #51
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I have mixed feelings about trying to learn to do the risers, swells, transitions, etc., that proliferate trance music. If that's your thing, that's cool. But everyone is trying to do the same things and no one is going to do it as well as those who lead the field.
I think this is a misguided notion. Millions of people are trying to learn to play guitar, but does that mean that anyone trying to learn guitar is a copycat who cannot make original music?

Music is fundamentally an EVOLUTION. Meaning you do not start from a blank slate and make something new. You listen to what already exists, borrow the things that touch your soul and speak to you, and employ those elements in your own music. When you do that, you necessarily digest and regurgitate those elements, so they are distilled through your own unique tastes and approach and they cannot help but come out altered. Some of the greatest musicians to create "new" sounds have admitted they were TRYING to copy another sound in a song they liked, but they just could not get it right, and wound up instead finding that "new" sound as a byproduct of that effort.

What you are complaining about, copycat music, is something else entirely. It's the result of people who are taking a more superficial approach to making music with the goal of making something "commercial" rather than following their heart and soul to express something within.

Anyway, you are kind of suggesting you are a copycat sellout who will necessarily create redundant music if you use white noise, sweeps, trancy builds, etc. That's sort of like some one in the 60's saying that there's nowhere left to go with electric guitar music and it'll all sound like Chuck Berry... Or some one in the late 80s saying anyone trying to rap was going to just be treading over the same ground as Run DMC. That's sort of judgmental, close-minded thinking has always been proven wrong. Sure, you can make commercial, uninspired, duplicative rap...or rock...or trance...but that's not the fault of the tones or elements you were working with, it's more about the overall process, motivation and sincerity.

Who in the world said that if I employed white noise sweeps or rising pitches or other prog trance elements I would not ALSO add other elements that are new, or structure the overall song in a new way or find other ways to make it my own, to make it original? Your post is really just pessimistic hating for the sake of hating.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:12 AM   #52
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Ken, please don't put words in my mouth. You won't find hate anywhere in my post. If you took it that way, then that is your own personal problem. I'm advocating for experimentation and accident, trial and error. My point, really, is to embrace one's uniqueness and find your own sound.

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Old 03-26-2014, 01:44 PM   #53
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Nowo, I checked out some of your songs and really like them.
Thanks! Glad you like them.

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I have mixed feelings about trying to learn to do the risers, swells, transitions, etc., that proliferate trance music. If that's your thing, that's cool. But everyone is trying to do the same things and no one is going to do it as well as those who lead the field.
I don't think it is a bad idea. These things are quite quintessential stock elements of Trance and even when used don't result in just copying another sound. My brother who worked as a DJ always says about my Trance songs that while structurally they are Trance, musically some of the typical trance elements are often missing.


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Your post is really just pessimistic hating for the sake of hating.
I don't think Smueske was really writing a hate posting. He basically just said that too often people start copying and then continue to do so. Although I personally think that the evolution and variety of for example Trance is really astounding, it is also true that about 75% of all the songs you can hear are basically bad copies of popular tracks. Then again, that is probably true for any style
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:32 PM   #54
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Well, I did take the tone of the post to be more negative, so I apologize for that. However, the gist of it still seems to single out rises, swells, transitions, and similar sonic elements as being basically a musical lost cause and dead end because of how many people are employing those elements.

It's kind of like telling an aspiring novelist not to read novels by others because that might make his/her writing less original. In fact, the works of others are great teachers, and great musicians, writers, artists are standing on the shoulders of others from the past.

Knowing how others are making sounds you love is the PATH to finding your own original voice and sound, not a path away from it. If you follow your ear to the sounds that speak to you, you are following the compass of your own true voice. If I take my 10 favorite songs in the world, they will likely be different from anyone else's 10 favorite songs. If I, as a musician, try to figure out why those songs move me, why I love them, how to recreate them, those abilities are then in my tool box. And then when I build my own songs, I'm using my favorite tools, and the resulting creating is a personal fusion that is my own true and original voice.

If progressive trance transitions with sweeps and rises and such do not speak to you the way they do to me, that is fine. But it is rather judgmental to say "at best you are aspiring to copy a sound" because I want to know how to make the sort of transition elements that I have found personally moving.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:39 PM   #55
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How is "aspiring to copy a sound" wrong of me to say? If you like a sound and you seek to imitate it, then your goal is to copy it. If you find a tutorial on how to make that sound, then the sound will be even more accurate. Look, to each his own. I really didn't mean to piss you off. I simply stated an opinion about how I have mixed feelings about using commonly identified elements in our tracks (to use your guitar example, sweep picking that was so prevalent in the 90's. At some point it got so ridiculous that over half of the guitar players thought they had to play that way. When this happens, music often gets homogenized). The pioneers pave the way, others follow. We're both passionate about what we do. Earlier musicians didn't have step-by-step tutorials on how to do something. They figured out how to do it on their own, by trial and error. My post was intended to signal the value in what you do ALREADY -- I certainly didn't mean to advocate for anything other than just appreciating the drive to discover. It may just be a philosophical difference, that's all. I'm certainly not against folks learning and sharing techniques. It was an honest post about my own misgivings, and an attempt to put a positive spin on WHERE FOLKS ARE RIGHT NOW.

Your comparisons are hardly fair. "It's kind of like telling an aspiring novelist not to read novels by others because that might make his/her writing less original." No, to do that I'd have to tell you to not listen to music. A more apt comparison would be to tell aspiring novelists to be careful about employing popular plot elements or character traits. Before you get angry and try to call me out publicly, maybe you could try understanding where I'm coming from?

And, also, bear in mind that my OP was not directed at you specifically. I have no idea why you're running this horse, but this is the end of it for me.

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Old 03-26-2014, 04:33 PM   #56
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I've always found the term "electronic music" a little strange. A major portion of the music we've heard most of our lives since at least the middle of the 20th century until now has been made "electronically". Almost all of what we hear now is. Even acoustic instruments become "electronic" once they've been recorded.

But besides that little technicality I do understand the distinction that you guys are making; that whole group of musical sub-genres classified as "electronic". Unfortunately most of them seem to have a criteria of thumping TR-808 or 909 bass drums. I tend to like more ambient experimental stuff of the electronic avant-garde, like the artists one finds on the OHM: Early Gurus of Electronic Music compilation that came out several years ago just as an example. With that said, my own contributions to this group will be more along those ambient, experimental lines. I just joined and am looking forward to anything that may happen. I'm also totally open to collaborations.
Well, you've heard some of my creations, so you can see I'm one of those fringe folks as well. There's SO many directions electronic music can go. Calling it electronic really can be misleading. Some of the first stuff I heard was ambient and experimental, and I fell in love.

Not to say there's no place for dance music. I used to DJ drum'n'bass in the early 2000's, and I listened to a ton of mix cds and tapes back then. Still do sometimes. It's all got its time and place I suppose. And as time goes by, there's more and more hybrid styles and even new genres popping up. As stagnant as some of the more mainstream electronic music can be sometimes, there's still a strong driving force underneath it all pushing towards innovation, which is part of why I love it so much.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:27 PM   #57
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Love the discussion going on here. It's interesting to me because while I like a good amount of what would be considered electronica, I really just like particular things that I've picked up incidentally over the years and never taken the time to truly explore it as genre. The indisputably electronic stuff I like such as Major Lazer, TNGHT, Squarepusher - they all engage in a fair amount of genre blending anyway.

A lot of the stuff I like (Trans Am, Ratatat, Battles, LCD) includes electronic elements but may not be considered electronic itself. I like a lot of things that sit right on that boundary...
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:37 AM   #58
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Well, the post on copying did seem directed at me, since it was my post that asked for info on how to create these elements.

In my experience, there are a lot of ways to use white noise, sweeps, pitch rises, maybe as many ways as there are to program drum beats. So saying that wanting to learn these skills is a form of copying what's been done is like saying some one wanting to learn how to program drum beats is therefore trying to copy what's been done. If I new how to create sweeps and white noise effects, you have no idea just how I'd tweak those elements and employ them in my music, to conclude either (1) I'm aspiring to copy others, or (2) I could not create anything better than what's been done. Those are both fundamentally judgmental and fundamentally pessimistic. I've never sought to copy other's music or retread what's been done to death. I just want to know how to create the particular tonal elements that I enjoy in music so I can use them in my music or, if I leave them out, it will not be because I don't know how to use them, it will be because I decided they did not fit what I was trying to create. Trying to learn a musical "how to" should never been looked down on or judged negatively. Telling people they can never surpass what current artists are doing musically? That's also a pretty crappy thing to tell any aspiring musician. I would not suggest that ANY musician playing ANY instrument or using ANY effect, has PERFECTED it to the point no one could every come along and improve upon it, find a way to evolve the process, or flip it around to inject originality in what seemed to be a horse that had been ridden to death. It just seems to be a pessimistic view on human creativity and potential in general and, more specifically directed at me because it was said in response to my desire to learn this stuff.

But, that said, I've found myself lashing out in threads on numerous boards this week, taking offense at stuff. If I step back and look at myself objectively, I have to say I may have a hair trigger chip on my shoulder this week, so maybe even thought I THINK I've got grounds to get defensive or righteously indignant, I'm really reading to much into things. As the Toltec's say, never take anything other's do personally...I try to live by their four agreements, but my ego sometimes has other ideas. So, I won't say any more on this.

I bought a book on dance music production recommended by some one else on Soundcloud, who I think is a Reaper member in this thread (sorry if I'm blanking on your name if you're reading this). Hopefully that'll give me a more learned overview of what to call the various EDM elements, and maybe some insight into how to generate them...and perhaps even some historical insight into the evolution of EDM genres that will better let me see where certain elements seem to have run their course or gotten overused to the point audiences are probably tired of them. Since I've not listed to much EDM in the last 6 years, and never listen to pop music, it may be I'm not tired of elements that the general public is tired of, and instead I personally feel nostalgia for the rave music I first rolled to back in Ibiza in 2000. The Orange Theme, Luvstruck, Toca's Miracle, Communication, etc.

Around 2004, I started listening to more jam bands and less trance (and then only psytrance). I found live jam bands with their 10 minute instruments were doing a lot of the same stuff as progressive trance in terms of taking you on a sonic rollercoaster with builds and breaks (like Phish, Particle, SCI, STS9, for example). Before any of that, as a kid growing up, I was all about 80s & 90s alt., alt rock, grunge - New Order, Dramarama, Depeche Mode, Nirvana, Social Distortion, Everclear. At this point, I'm trying to see how to fuse elements of distorted guitar-drive alt rock, with jam band elements, with electronica elements. So I guess I am quick to snap if I feel some one is suggesting I might be looking to create unoriginal music. I'm trying to take my favorite aspects from the genres I've liked the most and create something new that represents me as a musician. Probably throwing in some funk, too, since I think all music should have plenty of groove. I like the way Daft Punk throws funk into their EDM...now if you add more distortion on the rhythm guitar, add a guitar lead that does a jam-bandish solo, embellish or emphasize the transitions with some white noise sweeps or pitch rises at just the right places...well it may sound like shit, but I feel a hankering to try something along those lines. Musical gumbo.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:38 AM   #59
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I've made this one with 100% Reaper few month ago...Spent an evening

https://soundcloud.com/viente/kizuna-instrumental-mix
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:55 PM   #60
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I must say, I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of this particular Reaper/SoundCloud group; listening to others here and sharing my own attempts. Lost's of good work all around.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:03 PM   #61
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I've made this one with 100% Reaper few month ago...Spent an evening

https://soundcloud.com/viente/kizuna-instrumental-mix
Love it!

------------------------------------

I saw this thread and couldn't resist posting. I didn't read the entire thread however, the general feeling I got from it was that not many people using Reaper like EDM etc... or use it to write/compose arrange record the genre. So I have a short story to tell everyone. I am a musician/writer/producer/performer for many years and here's the kicker... The style/genre that I have been involved in has typically been rock - hard rock and progressive rock. Funny thing is that back in 1995 I was playing a video game called "Wipeout" on the PlayStation and I heard these songs that got ingrained in my head (because I played the game over and over - still can't remember if I beat it)

Anyway, I started to really dig the sonic landscapes these songs were conveying. I don't know if you would call it techno, trance or just plain video game music. The thing was that it struck a cord with me (pun intended) and that was the beginning of my like of electronic music. (Side note; The guy who wrote the music went under the name of "Cold Storage")

So several years later in the late 90's or there abouts - I'm in Malibu for a visit with a friend cruising the canyon with the top down and she has this music playing that is sending chills up my spine, so I ask here what it is. She reply's "Oh it's trance" - I'm like "What is trance". She didn't know either but said she liked it... so did I. Long story short I looked at the CD to get the artist so I could buy it. (I think it was called Trance Essentials Vol1 or something like that). From that day I became a fan of the genre. You have to understand at that time I was like a Dream Theater - Ronnie James Dio - Genesis - King's X - long haired studded belt( from the Kiss days) rock 'n rolla.. haha

As time went on that music never left me - I would listen to it in my car and in the closet. No way I could ever go to a club and dance to it (I dance like Elaine Benes on meth), and my friends colleagues/band mates thought there was something wrong with me whenever I tried to turn them on to it. So why am I writing this and what does it have to do with Reaper and the lack of love concerning EDM? Over the past five years I've been performing/touring with a progressive rock band. In that time I had to leave my home where I had a modest studio. I couldn't bring my studio with me so I started looking into software that was protable enough that I could create complex samples for live use (I did a lot of triggering with my feet). Welcome to Reaper

I stopped touring, left the band and returned home. Something dawned on me. The mega bucks I had put into my DAW software was completely trumped by Reaper - I almost felt ripped off and further realized I had a lot more time on my hands... it was nice. So what's a boy like me gonna do? Write some trance and migrate over to Reaper! (By-by dongle you bitch) - unfortunatly I had to pitch the UAD card out with it, but I'm not really missing it.

So as a musician I love many genres and everyone here who composes/arranges/writes/records EDM in Reaper or any other DAW will always get love from me.

and that is coming from a hard core rock old school analog recording tape splicing non vegetarian unlikely hipster.

I have several songs in arrangement/composition right now. I have a wonderful female vocalist, and just signed up for a soundcloud account. I look forward to everyone's critique when I start posting the stuff I'm writing. I can say that it will be trance/vocal trance. I love a lot of the stuff I've heard from you guys/gals and will try to listen to all of it.

Hold your head up!!!!!

Peace!

Last edited by Lerxst; 05-16-2014 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 05-17-2014, 06:53 AM   #62
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Write some trance and migrate over to Reaper! (By-by dongle you bitch) - unfortunatly I had to pitch the UAD card out with it, but I'm not really missing it.

So as a musician I love many genres and everyone here who composes/arranges/writes/records EDM in Reaper or any other DAW will always get love from me.

and that is coming from a hard core rock old school analog recording tape splicing non vegetarian unlikely hipster.
Hi Lerxst - really interesting story, I went a similar way, starting out pure rock based, then dabbled a bit i. electronica, but really disliking EDM on ideological grounds (it's not <prog>rock) and then being converted over to the dark side ;-) both passively as a listener and also actively as a musician. I'm not producing much actual trance at the moment myself, because I really got into downtempo electronica, but I still listen to trance a lot.

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I have several songs in arrangement/composition right now. I have a wonderful female vocalist, and just signed up for a soundcloud account. I look forward to everyone's critique when I start posting the stuff I'm writing. I can say that it will be trance/vocal trance.
I wish I had a wonderful (or just plain good) female vocalist ...

Looking forward to hearing your stuff!
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:14 PM   #63
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the thing that turned me onto Reaper was that Dom & Roland praised it so highly.

Learned later that artists like enduser (he uses it live!?), 0=0, and DJ Trax also use it

the fact a lot of people outside of electronic music, recording engineers, etc.. really value it is a "big turn on" for lack of a better phrase....


The funny thing about producers like Garrix, (yeah I wish I could just randomly make a platinum selling track, travel the world and be able to move to Europe or buy a farm!), is that it's the guy doing the masters that really make the track, not so much the production quality of the track itself (although thats really important)

nuances, etc
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:51 PM   #64
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Hi Lerxst - really interesting story, I went a similar way, starting out pure rock based, then dabbled a bit i. electronica, but really disliking EDM on ideological grounds (it's not <prog>rock) and then being converted over to the dark side ;-) both passively as a listener and also actively as a musician. I'm not producing much actual trance at the moment myself, because I really got into downtempo electronica, but I still listen to trance a lot.


I wish I had a wonderful (or just plain good) female vocalist ...

Looking forward to hearing your stuff!
I think maybe I need to re-phrase a little bit because I am still trying to understand all of the sub-genres within EDM (and I'm not sure I should even use that term because some may find it offensive) I only use EDM as there are so many sub's ... techno, trance, house, club, .... Sometimes I don't now how to even classify what I'm writing! Anyway,tell me more about downtempo elecronica? What BPM is typical? I'm still learning.... Tell me more --- examples?

The first material we put out will probably feel old school or maybe throwback, but we are listening trying to decide how the writing will progress. When you have good vocalist, it does open up the door for much more than just standard stuff. I have many ideas but have so much to learn even beginning to write in the genre --- it's a dichotomy however, it comes fairly naturally and quickly. We are on SC (TheDigitalDrop) and on the web shortly.... so much to do!


I hope someone starts some kind of collaboration - that's where the magic happens!
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:31 AM   #65
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I've made this one with 100% Reaper few month ago...Spent an evening

https://soundcloud.com/viente/kizuna-instrumental-mix
Nice! I like the arrangement and the mix is excellent --- voices placed well in the 'stage' and the beats are great.

Lots of work here -- in an evening you say? fast!

Good stuff
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:28 PM   #66
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I think maybe I need to re-phrase a little bit because I am still trying to understand all of the sub-genres within EDM (and I'm not sure I should even use that term because some may find it offensive) I only use EDM as there are so many sub's ... techno, trance, house, club, .... Sometimes I don't now how to even classify what I'm writing! Anyway,tell me more about downtempo elecronica? What BPM is typical? I'm still learning.... Tell me more --- examples?
Hi Lerxst, yes, the whole EDM / IDM genres are really confusing. For my fast songs I use the term trance, as they share a lot of the characteristics, even though purists might frown upon me using this label ;-)

Downtempo electronica is again quite an umbrella term and can mean anything that is to slow to dance to energetically. Wikipedia is similarily unspecific:
Quote:
Downtempo (sometimes referred to as "chill out", "chill" or "downbeat") is a type of electronic music style similar to ambient music, but usually with a beat or groove.The tempo, as well as the drum patterns of each track can vary.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtempo)

Personally most of my downtempo songs are between 70 & 90 bpm, my slowest one is 65 bpm (https://soundcloud.com/nowo/darkness-falling-lightly). I tend to gravitate towards 90 bpm (e.g. https://soundcloud.com/nowo/into-the-light-lenaflow), I don't know why, just seems like a tempo I can get my head into quite well.
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:34 PM   #67
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Hey guys, seems like a good place to ask this question as you're all electronic musicians:

How do you handle midi timing for all of your analog synths? Issue Im having is getting the midi and audio to stay locked. I'll send midi out, and it will always come back and get recorded either too early or too late. As if there is some latency-compensation funkyness. I've also tried using REAinsert, that's when audio records too early.

So I've been manually shifting stuff to line it up, there surly must be a better way? What am I missing?

How do you go about handling your midi?
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:03 PM   #68
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I remember seeing a documentary on Robert Moog a year or two ago. He told of the original reception of his synth(s), and how everyone was up in arms saying it wasn't a "real" instrument, or that it would create "real" music. A lot of people still see it that way, and that's kind of what I meant by "extreme" I suppose. Many see electronic music as random sounds that the machines make that take no skill to create or arrange. There's always a stereotype with all things I guess.
You know, I'd like to touch on this for a sec, because I LOVE this topic.

I think the sole purpose for any musical instrument is to allow the musician to be expressive. The more "expressive-ness" the instrument allows for, the better the instrument is. Some guitars just play better than others. Pianos, violins, drums, everything... They seem to "play better" because maybe it takes less effort to produce a harmonic, or maybe they have more dynamic range and a richer sound or what have you. The goal is to give the musician options with less exertion of force.

Now, if some newbie sat down behind a beautiful Steinway or picked up a Stradivarius violin they wouldnt be able to make beautiful music. You must learn the craft.

I'll say synthesizers are no different. When you have skill you can make a simple sine wave oscillator make incredibly expressive music after it goes through stages and stages of creative shaping.

As far as Moog stuff goes, the first time I heard one I instantly fell in love, those things are no different than a Gibson or something. They are made by hand here in the states with love and care, and it certainly feels like a musical instrument, not a science project! You know what I mean if you ever handled one! Something about that instrument gives it so much soul. Almost impossible to make a bad sound with it if you understand synthesis.

I've used other synths that dont quite respond the same way. You have to fight to get a good sound.

And since Im on the topic, DAWs are no different... They allow for maximal expressiveness and creativity if you know how to use it!

But to each his own. Some people hate the sound of an oboe, or a pipe organ, etc... Taste!
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:47 PM   #69
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Hey guys, seems like a good place to ask this question as you're all electronic musicians:

How do you handle midi timing for all of your analog synths? Issue Im having is getting the midi and audio to stay locked. I'll send midi out, and it will always come back and get recorded either too early or too late. As if there is some latency-compensation funkyness. I've also tried using REAinsert, that's when audio records too early.

So I've been manually shifting stuff to line it up, there surly must be a better way? What am I missing?

How do you go about handling your midi?
To be honest, I haven't really had any issues with audio and MIDI sync on my rig. I'm currently using a MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV running into a Frostwave Quad MIDI-CV converter (four channels of conversion with gate/pitch/velocity on each channel) and an RME Fireface UFX which I've had now for a couple of weeks. Prior to the RME, I was using the Firewire expansion on my Mackie Onyx desks for A/D/A.
I've generally found that MIDI and audio line up perfectly here whether I use the MOTU ports or the RME ports or all of them. I also use the USB MIDI on my Yamaha KX8 and that is solid too.
Whether running MIDI to a digital synth (DX7, SY77 or TX802) or to one of my analog synths and sequencers, it seems to stay locked solidly to the audio.
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You know, I'd like to touch on this for a sec, because I LOVE this topic.

I think the sole purpose for any musical instrument is to allow the musician to be expressive. The more "expressive-ness" the instrument allows for, the better the instrument is. Some guitars just play better than others. Pianos, violins, drums, everything... They seem to "play better" because maybe it takes less effort to produce a harmonic, or maybe they have more dynamic range and a richer sound or what have you. The goal is to give the musician options with less exertion of force.

Now, if some newbie sat down behind a beautiful Steinway or picked up a Stradivarius violin they wouldnt be able to make beautiful music. You must learn the craft.

I'll say synthesizers are no different. When you have skill you can make a simple sine wave oscillator make incredibly expressive music after it goes through stages and stages of creative shaping.

As far as Moog stuff goes, the first time I heard one I instantly fell in love, those things are no different than a Gibson or something. They are made by hand here in the states with love and care, and it certainly feels like a musical instrument, not a science project! You know what I mean if you ever handled one! Something about that instrument gives it so much soul. Almost impossible to make a bad sound with it if you understand synthesis.

I've used other synths that dont quite respond the same way. You have to fight to get a good sound.

And since Im on the topic, DAWs are no different... They allow for maximal expressiveness and creativity if you know how to use it!

But to each his own. Some people hate the sound of an oboe, or a pipe organ, etc... Taste!
I agree one hundred percent! Well said!
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:25 PM   #70
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Just a few days ago I was telling a youngster learning the guitar that it would be tremendously easier if all beginners could start on a Martin or similar guitar. Just as you said, not that you would automatically play beautiful music, but it would come easier for you than a cheapie.

I agree with the parallel with synths as well. I never have had the luxury of playing on a Moog, but I've had a few "better" synths along side some "lesser" synths. There's definitely the same type of thing going on as is with guitars. You spend less time fighting the instrument, and more time letting the sound inside of you flow out.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:37 AM   #71
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Since this thread is all about electronic music and REAPER, here's a few topics about the three new tunes I've recorded so far for my newest album, 'Hidden Gems | Instrumental Journeys'

O Jerusalem!
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=141405

Ghost Train
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=141687

Run the Race!
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=140982

If you don't want to read about the tunes and just want to go right ahead and download them all, here's the direct download links...
Download all tracks from this album here
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:32 AM   #72
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Hey all:

I've noticed over the years that songs by artists composing in electronic forms of music don't get much love in this forum. This is not an attack, nor is it meant to be accusative. It's just the way things are. I've been thinking of starting a listening group (through a group on Facebook, via email, or whatever) for those of us who do compose electronic music and want mix feedback. I'm up for ideas. Feel free to respond in thread, via message, or to my email at stevemueske [@] yahoo.com.

Respectfully,

Never noticed any attitude against electronic artists, always very helpful folks here. If you aren't on it already, check-out Muffwiggler forum, it's theeeeeee place for anyone into synths, especially modular.

ARP.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:45 PM   #73
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...If you aren't on it already, check-out Muffwiggler forum, it's theeeeeee place for anyone into synths, especially modular.

ARP.
Cool forum. Haven't seen that one before but have it bookmarked now.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:23 PM   #74
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Bit noneplussed by the exchange re Martin Garrix. Does he use Reaper? His music is really well produced, but does not touch me. In terms of electronica there are many artists who I think produce more interesting music.
Much of that big room house stuff is produced in FL Studio. I much prefer more underground electronic ("bass music" future garage. 160 Footwork/Jungle, techno etc.) but will admit the drop in Animals is catchy for the style.

There's a FM In the Studio with him where you can probably find out more. There is also a FL remake of the Animals track online you could easily find.

Vengeance samples, 4x4 kick, hypersaws, tried and true dance cliches and... profit!
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:24 PM   #75
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I made a Soundcloud group a while back specifically for people who make electronic music with Reaper.

Reaper la Electronica

It seems to have a weird ebb and flow of content which is cool.

I sometimes struggle to keep the spam out since the "new" Soundcloud no longer allows me to remove tracks from the group unless I make it fully moderated.

Steve
Joined the group
Added https://soundcloud.com/slava-fiks/hectic-life

Slava
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Old 09-13-2014, 06:42 PM   #76
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Cool analog synth sounds ReaDave. Thanks for your reply on latency. I dont want to re-direct this thread into a technical one, so I've posted the question in General Discussion. Maybe you'd care to explain your sample-accurate routing there!!! Thanks.

http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146284
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:12 AM   #77
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Cool analog synth sounds ReaDave. Thanks for your reply on latency. I dont want to re-direct this thread into a technical one, so I've posted the question in General Discussion. Maybe you'd care to explain your sample-accurate routing there!!! Thanks.

http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=146284
Cheers for having a listen Moogie. I'll check out your other thread now.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:53 PM   #78
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Ha, I popped back in to see how things are in Reaperland. Really happy to see this thread getting some love.

Viente, checked out your track and really like the sound and development. Nice work!

Quote:

I've made this one with 100% Reaper few month ago...Spent an evening

https://soundcloud.com/viente/kizuna-instrumental-mix
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Old 11-02-2014, 02:46 AM   #79
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This thread is getting behind a bit... Really love the tracks you guys link to. BTW. are there anyone here more interested in synth pop rather than more "experimental" electronic genres?
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Old 11-02-2014, 03:46 AM   #80
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This thread is getting behind a bit... Really love the tracks you guys link to. BTW. are there anyone here more interested in synth pop rather than more "experimental" electronic genres?
I'm somewhere in the middle with this. I do plenty of Krautrock (AKA Berlin School) stuff but some of my tracks cross into synth pop somewhat. On my latest album, the closest to that is 'Book of Remembrance' on the 'Hidden Gems | Instrumental Journeys' album.

I just made a new website dedicated to my synth music which I posted about yesterday. That post is here http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=148627

The direct link to my new site is Synthesizers.audio.
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