Old 11-06-2015, 02:43 AM   #1
111
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Default Reaper live?

Hello! I`m actually a guitarist and since I use lots of effects, my pedalboard became too complicated, and not transportable for every gig, so that I sold most of my hardware effects, as soon as an idea to make performances with PC struck me. Well, I also was inspired by some fellows that already do it. Guitar processors don`t fit my needs for some reasons. So VST only. I tried almost everything unless Ableton, and still Reaper is better. I read several threads overhere about how to organize it. Live config doesn`t work (maybe because my host is 64 bit, and it said it won`t work with it). The only thing that works is switching snapshots, which is pretty convenient, but the delay is unacceptable. The silence between snapshots is about 1,5 secs, which is very notticeable and unpleasant. Is there any other ways to use Reaper in that way? Maybe smb knows, or even uses it so. I don`t need automation, I prefer switching presets via midi footswitch.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:10 AM   #2
Remco Z
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Hi 111,

I'm testing a live-rig these times, on a 2007 (!!!!) Core2duo/4Gb ram laptop on Win7 64bit ,
with a Steinberg UR44 USB interface with 10ms roundtrip latency .
Running the test with Reaper 5.04 64bit in the following setup:

12 projects/songs open in tabs (loaded/saved as project list via SWS extension)
Each with the following region/routing/track/plugins setup :

-Each song has its "Intro-Verses-Choruses etc..." regions
-Playback folder (containing 16 separate 48/24 keyboard , loop & instruments stems)
-Countdown/click track (routed to drummer)
-Delay send bus
-Reverb send bus
-input 1 HiZ E.GTR (IK Amplitube (in Eco mode) on inputfx) "played live"
-input 2 12-string (UR44-DSP channelstrip , reverb send) "played live"
-input 3 Voice 1 (UR44-DSP channelstrip , reverb send) "played live"
-input 4 Voice 2 (UR44-DSP channelstrip , reverb send) "played live"
-All tracks (except countdown/click) have sends to hardware outputs 3/4 as well

-Outputs 1/2 have whole mix + countdown/click routed to drummer's & my in-ears
-Outputs 3/4 have whole mix routed to PA & lead singer's in-ears

Switching tabs to switch songs is fast , and tested this config during a 4-hour rehearsal without any crash , instability or glitch so far .
And I'm comfortable with 4.7in/5.2out ms latency .

Hope this gives you an idea of what you may expect .

Remco Z
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:14 AM   #3
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well, my minimal latency of audio signal is also around 5 ms. Audio Interface is NI KA6.
So, you use kinda automation on each song, and select songs switching tabs, right?
I tried to program my "presets" in the way of different tabs. But when I switch to another tab, the previous`s still playing, plus I`m not sure, whether I can assign
switching tab to a midi event. So that I forbade this method for me. Thanks for sharing your experience! Because they say Get MAC, and nothing else, but you seem to be comfort using WIN-based PC.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:26 AM   #4
Remco Z
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Well, in fact , I use a single Amplitube sound/preset per song (clean , or dist , or crunch)
Not much tweaking/changing sounds in different sections of the songs are required (It's a simple pop-rock project).
However , it might happen that a delay , or flanger , needs to be on a certain precise part & switched off again .
Being no "official live guitar-player", I don't have a midi-floor-controller (nor the bucks to buy one ^^ ) and I'm going to look into midi-learning 2 available keyboard-pedal/switches... when I have a little bit more time.
But since the project has sequenced keyboards + an e-drum loop (fixed structure) anyway , so I automated the few delay and/or flanger with simple on/off points .
If I need a slight boost , single coil/double coil switch on the guitar itself does the job for now .

Ye , I found out that Reaper allows not only to open multiple projects , but also to play them back simultaneously ... Multitask audio-engine ^^ .
Beware : behaves the same for the "Active" (or monitor-open) live tracks & monitoring.
for ex. , I had the microphone track "Active"on 8 different songs, though only one was in focus & got a nasty feedback.
Better have the project saved with unactive live tracks.
(may be OK for an E-GTR , but with mic's and Electro-acoustic gtr ... it's very risky)

When the goal is just to play along a fixed song , not a big deal for me to load new tab , press play (8bars countdown) & quickly mouse-activate in TCP the 3 tracks. GTR + mic 1 + mic 2 ... and go

To force each tab/song to stop playback @ the end , it's important to set the time selection for the whole song when you save project . There's the option in pref's somewhere to "Stop playback @ end of time selection". That must be ticked .


EDIT : And about the "get a Mac"-thing ...*cough* that's a debate I never could understand.^^

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Old 11-06-2015, 10:38 AM   #5
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 111 View Post
Hello! I`m actually a guitarist and since I use lots of effects, my pedalboard became too complicated, and not transportable for every gig, so that I sold most of my hardware effects, as soon as an idea to make performances with PC struck me. Well, I also was inspired by some fellows that already do it. Guitar processors don`t fit my needs for some reasons. So VST only. I tried almost everything unless Ableton, and still Reaper is better. I read several threads overhere about how to organize it. Live config doesn`t work (maybe because my host is 64 bit, and it said it won`t work with it). The only thing that works is switching snapshots, which is pretty convenient, but the delay is unacceptable. The silence between snapshots is about 1,5 secs, which is very notticeable and unpleasant. Is there any other ways to use Reaper in that way? Maybe smb knows, or even uses it so. I don`t need automation, I prefer switching presets via midi footswitch.
I use Reaper for live guitar performance (as musician) as well as live sound production (as FOH engineer).

Yep, MIDI controllers! Foot and/or otherwise.

Assign the various plugin and Reaper board parameters to comfortable controllers and off you go.

Snapshots would not be the way to go. You need controllers that let you get your hands/feet right on the controls just like analog devices.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:33 AM   #6
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Thanks, Remco Z!


Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
I use Reaper for live guitar performance (as musician) as well as live sound production (as FOH engineer).

Yep, MIDI controllers! Foot and/or otherwise.

Assign the various plugin and Reaper board parameters to comfortable controllers and off you go.

Snapshots would not be the way to go. You need controllers that let you get your hands/feet right on the controls just like analog devices.
well, actually, if understood you correctly, then, I guess, I`ve found it. In the automation menu there`s an option on every button "Learn". The only thing left is to get midi controller, assign knobs and see what kind of latency there will be
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Thanks, Remco Z!




well, actually, if understood you correctly, then, I guess, I`ve found it. In the automation menu there`s an option on every button "Learn". The only thing left is to get midi controller, assign knobs and see what kind of latency there will be
Yep. Select the parameter. Wiggle the control you want to assign it to. Hit OK.

FYI, this is all stored in the reaper-kb.ini file in the Reaper resource folder in your Library/Application Support folder.

There will be no latency for the controls.

I have dueling wi-fi systems with an iPad on remote desktop and MIDI controllers over a wi-fi/USB hub. I can 2 finger scroll a fader on the iPad and the Faderport fader moves right along with it. That's round trip over 2 wi-fi systems.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:10 PM   #8
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Good... that sounds promissing)
thanks a lot. As soon as I grab a midi controller, I`ll try it. Hope it won`t disappoint me
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:00 PM   #9
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I bought a pair of Korg NanoKontrols that I eventually intend to hack into pedalboard type controllers for myself and my bassist. I've got it pretty well mapped out for my rig, and it works well enough, except that as is it's not super intuitive or easy to navigate.

For this, I use a set of JS plugins that help to translate and connect the MIDI messages from the controller to the plugins they are meant to control. I prefer to avoid the control path altogether, and have "special needs" , so it's maybe more complicated than it needs to be.

The thing is, though, that it would be relatively easy to build a "preset manager" plugin in JS would take a single midi note or program change and translate it to a set of parameter automation actions which is what you originally said you wanted. It would take some thinking to make it "easy" and "user friendly", but I know it could be (maybe has been?) done.
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
I bought a pair of Korg NanoKontrols that I eventually intend to hack into pedalboard type controllers for myself and my bassist. I've got it pretty well mapped out for my rig, and it works well enough, except that as is it's not super intuitive or easy to navigate.

For this, I use a set of JS plugins that help to translate and connect the MIDI messages from the controller to the plugins they are meant to control. I prefer to avoid the control path altogether, and have "special needs" , so it's maybe more complicated than it needs to be.

The thing is, though, that it would be relatively easy to build a "preset manager" plugin in JS would take a single midi note or program change and translate it to a set of parameter automation actions which is what you originally said you wanted. It would take some thinking to make it "easy" and "user friendly", but I know it could be (maybe has been?) done.
wow, what an interesting experience! Thanks for sharing. BTW you`ve answered another question I could also post, because I`ve just decided to add some relatively cheap midi interface to my home PC to make the mixing process a little bit easier. However fo live gigging I`ll definitely use another footswitch)
Interesting idea to use JS plugins to convert midi commands, yeah, that may be a challenge for me, lol. But I`ll try it, no doubt. Just gonna find those JS...
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:29 PM   #11
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BTW, I wonder, how do you, gentlemen plug the audio from the audio interface to stage boxes? I mean, if I buy a kinda compact card that will only have a phones output. is that ok? Or I should buy smth, like my studio interface (NI KA 6), with L and R monitor output? In case it`s important, I don`t need a stereo.

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Old 11-06-2015, 01:57 PM   #12
ashcat_lt
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Straight wire is best, and balanced is even better, unless it causes a ground loop.

I actually have a passive DI that I hacked to take the transformer out, pass balanced TRS or "pseudo balanced" TS >XLR, and include both the pad and the ground lift just in case. I think I've been doing the fully balanced thing lately, though TS works fine, too.

You might be able to get away with just a TS or TRS>XLR cable but they don't include the ground lift switch for when there's a problem. TS>XLR pseudo-balanced handles that issue IF it works with your interface.

TS from interface to a passive DI would be my last resort. It will work, is almost idiot-proof, is generally ubiquitous so you don't (usually) have to carry your own, but I hate the volume drop and just generally don't trust transformers.

A headphone output would work, but you're going to want to split the stereo signal out. You can't can't just wire TRS>XLR straight through as though it was a balanced connection.

I personally run mono for my live rig, but always send both L and R out to the house just in case there's some random problem with one of the connections, the FOH engineer can just mute it and use the other one without losing anything.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:20 PM   #13
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so, the ideal option would be an audio interface with L and R monitor outputs and just in case 2-channel passive di-box, right?
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 111 View Post
so, the ideal option would be an audio interface with L and R monitor outputs and just in case 2-channel passive di-box, right?
Not ideal (IMNSHO), but probably easiest.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:48 PM   #15
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well, something is needed to begin with) Thanks again

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