Old 12-08-2006, 03:08 PM   #1
Fritz
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Default Excessive CPU Use When Idle

Edit, Problem went away somewhat when I replaced the card with a firewire interface, I88x. The CPU usage for that was 20% all the time still kinda lame. I upgraded the processor in the existing motherboard to X2 3800. Usage for interface went to 0% for playback .5% for recorded track same OEM XP install go figure

I have:
athlon 64 3.2 with 1.5 GB ram
rme digi 8/96 pad (the only pci card in the system)
Nuendo 8-I/O (RME ADI-8 Pro)
ATI Raedon express 200 onboard graphics (Ouch but very common)
XP Home SP2

If I set the buffers the rme configuration thing to 1024
I get:
80% CPU usage if I allow all 8 ins and outs in the allowed input and output settings

60% CPU usage if I allow 8 ins but only 2 outs

20% CPU usage if I allow 2 ins and 2 outs

This is with 9 tracks of 24/44.1 with no plugins loaded with the system sitting idle.

If I set my interface to 2048 samples all these figures drop in half but I guess this is a 16 bit setting for the interface.

I understand that reaper is a 64 bit app so comparing it to Vegas 4.0 is apples and oranges but running a project with 12 tracks and about 20 plugins, I get about 33% CPU load in Vegas and 65% in reaper with 36% of it used by the plugins. This is with only 2 ins and outs allowed in reaper but all 8 in Vegas. Also Vegas uses 0% CPU when Idle. If I allow all 8 ins and outs It will run out of CPU with 5 Waves REQ 3.0 running

I am going to purchase reaper when my 30 days run out because it is great for sticking a quick soft synth on a mix to import to vegas. And it probably will work well enough for mixing but not recording. I can record in vegas, import the project into reaper, and mix with that fine latency compensation.

If you could fix this issue though I would probably end up ditching Vegas all together.

Edit: Moreinfo

If I set allow input range to off, I only get two available inputs but with only two outputs selected I am down to 3% CPU Idle and 40% on the 12 tracks with 20 plugs, perfectly acceptable. If I Enable 8 outputs then it's 8% idle and 50% on the 12 track project. The problem is I only need 2 outputs and all 8 inputs.

Anyway I'm going to go now and pay the $40 since I can mix in it and I can run S.I.R and stuff with much less hassle

Last edited by Fritz; 06-17-2007 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:37 AM   #2
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I did my first recording from scratch with Reaper Saturday.

Except for having to work around some issues it was rock solid. I only enabled the channels I was using so my CPU never went over about 50%.

I think this issue has to do with the how reaper deals with the driver. No matter what I set the output on the card to, two choices input or automatic, no signal is allowed to pass from input to output on any channel. I managed to get the latency down to 5ms~5ms so I was able to monitor through reaper and nobody noticed. I'd rather not do this.

Anyway I have version 2.11 of the rme digi driver
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:07 PM   #3
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Default Still more info

Same thing on all settings of release audio device, screenshot:



www.danconst.com/fritz/screenshot.jpg

Last edited by Fritz; 12-11-2006 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:20 PM   #4
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Default Some input please

Any suggestions anyone. Will replacing my onboard video help lower the cpu usage when recording?

A summary anyway about this issue "who's got the bitbucket".

All these apps use about the same cpu usage to do the same things

In Sonar 3

No CPU is used supporting the incoming stream on a asio channel unless a track is armed. RME has the bitbucket is dumping the stream there

When a track is armed the bitbucket is passed for that audio stream from RME to Sonar. This takes 18% of the CPU on my system. If the other track of the stream, ASIO is in stereo streams, is selected the cpu usage stays the same

For every stereo pair selected there is an additional 18% CPU used. In other words if you record 1, 2, 3, 4 there is a usage for recording of about 36%. If you record 1, 3, 5, 7 there is a usage of 72% the same as if you record all 8 tracks.

As the tracks are unarmed the usage drops proportionally to 0%. Each of the four bitbuckets are passed back to RME when the tracks are unarmed.

Starting over at the top of this section and everything works the same.

In Vegas 4:

Behaves the same as Sonar in both MME and ASIO except BUG

Vegas uses the correct cpu usage, but after unarming the tracks
the CPU only drops to zero when the last track is unarmed. If only one track is armed the next time all four bitbuckets are grabbed for 72% CPU usage until the next time Vegas is restarted.

Reaper 1.49:

Grabs all four bitbuckets and will not let go as long as their enabled in the input range setting BUG!

I understand that this is probably an issue where the input streams are working as designed. This is a design flaw.

From this thread

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...e+audio+engine

from pipeline audio:

"Also pretty interesting to note, and TOTALLY counter to what I find in most apps is that REAPER for me doesnt change CPU use between tracks armed AND monitoring and tracks disarmed/no monitoring"

This is not a feature it is a BUG. If a new user fires up reaper configures his soundcard and finds the CPU usage is double or triple what he is used to and he can't accomplish what he is used to doing he's not going to buy it in most cases.

In summary from my findings here I should be using Sonar. I won't cause I hate the *&^%$@#@#$ UI.

I will be using reaper because I can work around this bug fairly easily. By only enabling inputs I want to use in the input range and making sure to patch any preamps I am using into ASIO pairs.
Besides Reaper is a better app than Vegas anyway.

A friend installed reaper and was mixing some old 8 track sessions on his cheap laptop. He was maxing out all the time on a celeron 2.0. He messed with the driver, installed ASIO 4 All, and disabled the input and the same session runs at 16% CPU

I realize you guys are probably trying to make punching more stable hanging onto the driver like this but at least put a mix mode button or a disable punch ins setting so there is not so much work keeping the CPU usage to a minimum
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Old 12-14-2006, 03:23 PM   #5
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>ATI Raedon express 200 onboard graphics

Disable this ASAP and slap in a decent AGP video card with its own VRAM!

Most onboard graphics share main memory with the CPU which will cause CPU bottlenecks. I had this problem with my Compaq Presario. After installing a $30 AGP card (NVidia GEForce4 MX 4000), its been working flawlessly with all my audio software.

Cheers,

Randy

Last edited by randygo; 12-14-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:02 PM   #6
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Default What card for pci express

Thanks Randy, Could you recommend a cheap pci-e card? I understand there are problems with the cheap raedon cards, 300, and they still share some memory with the processor
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:16 PM   #7
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fritz...
some points.
1. i never use an ati video card.
ive tried two...never again.
found they took a lot of resources.
2. my recommendation would be to visit a local pc tech and try
several video cards ...simple non intrusive vid cards..ive had good success with cheap non fancy no names....(non ati)....and look in windows
by right clicking in the task bar and check the tasks/processes at idle that xp is reporting. this will show you how much pc resources is being taken up.
in fact before doing that out of interest go to xp task manager and post back here at idle..a list of your processes and what xp shows for cpu useage when reaper is NOT loaded. reason i ask is i'm curious if there are any processes takeing up a lot of resources on your system.
3. you have a powerfull processor and decent ram.
but you didnt list your disk drives.
are you running one or two ??
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Old 12-15-2006, 11:31 AM   #8
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Default thanks manning1

here is a screenshot of my processes at idle.

www.danconst.com/fritz/processes.jpg

I have two hard disks, one on each controller

system seagate barracuda 160GB 7200 rpm ide 133

audio seagate barracuda 80GB 7200 rpm ide 133

I find that this gives me more tracks than I can ever use so far anyway.
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Old 12-15-2006, 12:49 PM   #9
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fritz...
ok good.
two hd's.
its a silly thing.....
but check on both hd's you have dma enabled.
this is important.

now with reaper running....with a project....
take a pic of your processes again.
cheers.
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Old 12-15-2006, 02:21 PM   #10
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Default dma

1st disk ultra dma 5
2nd disk ultra dma 2

screenshot of processes with reaper running with 8 ins and outs enabled

www.danconst.com/fritz/reaperprocesses.jpg

no ins 8 outs

www.danconst.com/fritz/reaperprocesses0in.jpg


also manning1 just to humor me could you post what your machine uses when idle and then once again with allow input range unchecked?

Last edited by Fritz; 12-15-2006 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:10 PM   #11
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fritz...
baffling.
disk i/o isnt high.
out of interest you said....
one hd at udma 2 and tother at udma 5.
which one is used for recording to ??
the udma 5 ??
at idle i'm showing rpr at 0 pcent cpu.
i dont have your rme/nuendo i/o set up.

out of interest..your recording at 44.1/24 bit right ??
out of curiosity lets try this test...
in the project settings in rpr...
set to 44.1/16 bit n lets see the xp task/process display again....just curious. enabling 8 ins.

in addition u have no other pci slots occupied right ?? no networking or other special cards in pci slots.??
no irq conflicts right ??

fritz.....ps....
i nearly forgot.
could you run this test please.
without rpr loaded....
load a song into xp media player....
then grab the blue bar at the top with the mouse and move the display around.
do you hear any audio glitches ??
cheers.

Last edited by manning1; 12-15-2006 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:18 PM   #12
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fritz...
baffling.
disk i/o isnt high.
out of interest you said....
one hd at udma 2 and tother at udma 5.
which one is used for recording to ??

udma 5 is the audio drive. I don't see this as the problem as the excess cpu usage is at idle.

at idle i'm showing rpr at 0 pcent cpu.
i dont have your rme/nuendo i/o set up

So I guess the problem with not letting go of the audio streams when idle is a problem with reaper and digi 98/6 and my sytem and not in general. Just curious what kind or cpu usage do you see with 8 tracks armed but not recording and what processor does your system have?

out of interest..your recording at 44.1/24 bit right ??
yes

out of curiosity lets try this test...
in the project settings in rpr...
set to 44.1/16 bit n lets see the xp task/process display again....just curious. enabling 8 ins.

www.danconst.com/fritz/reaper16.jpg

Thats with the setting for file depth at 16 bits in project settings

in addition u have no other pci slots occupied right ??

three pci slots 1 pci-e slot all empty except for the rme card

I'm going to have to finish this up tomorrow my band just showed up to jam
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Old 12-16-2006, 06:45 AM   #13
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fritz...
re.....http://www.danconst.com/fritz/reaper16.jpg
i'm getting pagenot found.
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:51 AM   #14
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Default oops

fixed link

www.danconst.com/fritz/reaper16bit.jpg
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Old 12-16-2006, 12:37 PM   #15
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Default back af it

no networking or other special cards in pci slots.??
no other cards just onboard network adapter. I tried disabling it but nothing changed

no irq conflicts right ??
The network adapter and the rme are sharing an irq. I can't figure out how to change this. I tried moving the card to the other 2 PCI slots, one had a major conflict and wouldn't work, the other one behaves the same as the original. I guess I need to figure out how to disable the onboard network adapter in the bios. If this is the problem I would get a usb to network cable adapter. The music computer does not have access to the internet it just has a long cable with the send and recieve fliped at one end so I can do backups and install upgrades. I installed reaper 1.5 today and the first time it played back too fast if that tells you anything. As long as I keep the resources under control I've never seen reaper crash or hicup or anything. The only thing that I've noticed funny is that if you drag the center frequency around for the eq in reafir there are some little crackles that are heard but not in any of the other EQs I'vde tried It's weird that I am having these kind of problems cause the system is rock solid.

fritz.....ps....
i nearly forgot.
could you run this test please.
without rpr loaded....
load a song into xp media player....
then grab the blue bar at the top with the mouse and move the display around.
do you hear any audio glitches ??

no
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:31 PM   #16
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I'm feeling pretty stupid today. For what my time is worth I should have just bought a new computer. I ordered a cheap new pci-e video card a couple of days ago so we'll see if it helps.

If not maybe I should take this computer, out of the office Athlon XP 1800 solid mom and pop shop clone, and switch it with the music computer and reamote my effects to the faster machine?

I guess it took new software for me to really test my system. In vegas before I would just think well I have 25 tracks in my project I guess I can only record 4 tracks at once now before my system chokes with the plugins all turned off.

For the record I tried

Disabling all the things I don't use in the bios

FDC
Parallel Port
Serial Port
SATA Support
onboard sound was disabled from day 1
LAN Boot

I also tried removing the 2 256M Ram so all I have is a matching pair of 512s for 1 GB

No difference

Last edited by Fritz; 12-16-2006 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 12-16-2006, 04:38 PM   #17
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fritz....
very puzzling.
i dont have the same set up as you.
but i enabled 10 ins in rpr for the hell of it..in a new blank project......at idle. (on a crummy athlon level machine i have
here for the hell of it..ie.less power than amd 64.)
6 per cent cpu useage around.
all i can suspect is it might have something to do with your sound device drivers. maybe this results in different system demands,....
out of curiosity....could u test this ??
open up a new blank rpr project...n enable 8 ins...
(ie..no tracks haveing been recorded yet.)
what does xp task mgr n rpr say for cpu useage.
if its high....it might just be your device set up possibly.
v puzzling. maybe others have some ideas.
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Old 12-16-2006, 05:13 PM   #18
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open up a new blank rpr project...n enable 8 ins...
(ie..no tracks haveing been recorded yet.)
what does xp task mgr n rpr say for cpu useage.

I reinstalled the driver for the rme a couple of times nothing there. Could it be I have a marginal optical cable? The usage goes to nothing if I turn off the nuendo i/o?

open up a new blank rpr project...n enable 8 ins...
(ie..no tracks haveing been recorded yet.)
what does xp task mgr n rpr say for cpu useage.
if its high....it might just be your device set up possibly


That was how I did my tests to compare vegas, sonar, and reaper. The usage problem is not with reaper they are all the same with 8 tracks armed. It's just the other apps don't have usage with no tracks armed. I did some overdubs with my band today and reaper performed perfectly, not a glitch, I just set it to 4 ins and two outs. I have 8% processor useage on playing 12 tracks without effects with the input disabled 26% with plugs an instace of
S.I.R, sonitus multiband compressor, reafir, sony wavehammer, five assorted eqs. By the way wavehammer does not work in vegas. It shows 2% usage in reaper and sounds great. It looks to me like I can get by with this as my projects rarely go over 30 tracks. At that point I could still overdub 4 inputs with the plugs disabled or maybe freezing a couple of subs.

Thanks manning for all the help.

Anybody else got any advice for configuring an rme digi 96/8?
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Old 12-16-2006, 05:43 PM   #19
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fritz....
ive seen a lot of weird stuff in the land of daws....lol.
particularly with so many different pc configs etc etc.
(i'm working on a song proj with another rpr user...
n am pretty busy. also xmas..so i apologise if i cant always answer quickly.)
all i can think of at this point is if 8 ins at less cpu
is important to try a friends 8 input sound device....if theres one available/near you/or a store will lend you one, maybe even try one of the new firewire mixers n see via testing if it makes a diff. ...as a possible check on the nuendo I/O.
if you see a cpu drop with another fresh different 8 input sound device...
it might give you something else to consider.
i suggest this only cos ive seen it many times where a different sound device can sometimes impact things positively.
sorry. its tuff as i'm not there.
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