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Old 12-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #1
peter5992
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Default Free Eastwest Symphonic Orchestra Demo

Good morning everyone:

Eastwest now has a free demo of its famous Symphonic Orchestra available for download for anyone who wants to fill out a survey:

http://www.soundsonline.com/free-orc...db5e460231a980

This is an excerpt of the full fledged version, it's an interesting opportunity to check out a high end symphonic orchestra virtual instrument. The Play engine on which it runs it fully compatible with Reaper, by the way.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:31 AM   #2
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Yup, I confirm it works stable.

It is however an enormous RAM hog. I tested this with 11V Lyr A patch on both K4 and PLAY:

K4 standalone idle: ~50 MB mem usage, ~73 MB VM size
PLAY standalone idle: ~67 MB mem usage, ~368.5 MB VM size

Terrible.


However CPU use is ok with both. But RAM issues with PLAY should definitely be sorted. There is NO WAY IN HELL it needs THAT much RAM! It says that it loaded 800k of samples in RAM only (with the above patch), what the hell is PLAY using the rest of RAM for, then? Changing engine DFD levels doesn't change much.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 12-24-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:25 PM   #3
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Hmm... I can't get it to install here. Bummer
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:37 PM   #4
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What's the problem? If you're on Vista/W7, you need to temporarily disable UAC.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:53 PM   #5
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Great find, thanks for the tip!

So what's in this version?
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:12 PM   #6
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Here's instrument patches:

2TP QLeg.ewi
2TP Stac RR x4.ewi
6FH Stac Long.ewi
11V Lyr A.ewi
11V Sus Vib.ewi
BSN Sus Vib.ewi
CBS Quick Up Dn.ewi
Crotales.ewi
EH2 Portato NV.ewi
Marimba.ewi
Orch chimes.ewi
SFH QLeg.ewi
SFL QLeg.ewi
Sleigh Bells RR.ewi
ST2 QLeg Vib.ewi
STB QLeg.ewi
Tambourine.ewi
Triangle 2.ewi
VAS Pizz.ewi
VCS Sus Vib Hard.ewi

A little bit of everything
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:55 PM   #7
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Thanks ED, that looks like a pretty decent selection for a freebie.

However, I've heard the war stories about the PLAY engine and I wasn't really expecting it to run on this dinosaur system (my main machine is broken and until the time I can afford to fix it, I'm on an Athlon XP 3000+ w/ 1.5GB RAM). And indeed, it doesn't work -- at all. The standalone version throws an exception at me when I try to launch it and the VST won't even show up in REAPER.

So before I start troubleshooting I'd love to know if I'm wasting my time here. Is this machine beyond all hope of running PLAY or might it be some other problem?

Edit: and by "running PLAY" I mean just that. I'm not expecting to be able to do anything complex with it, I'd just like to get it running and check out the patches, even if it means having a 21ms latency or so.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:15 PM   #8
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If it doesnt show up in Reaper and stand alone crashes..And your using a Athlon XP..sounds like a SSE2 issue..Athlon XP doesnt support SSE2...It goes up to SSE1..
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:27 PM   #9
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Yup, you need to have SSE2 enabled CPU!
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:45 PM   #10
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It says it's not copy protected but does anyone know if it installs PACE drivers or anything of the sort anyway?
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:50 AM   #11
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Hi guys!
East west Symphonic Orchestra freebie is great, but can't produce any sound in Reaper.
In standalone it works great.
It says:

This engine level settings has exceeded your available system resources.

this is in a project loaded only with the Play plugin.


Any ideas?


I'm using Win7 32 bit and 4 GB of Ram.


Thanks,
Dimi
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yup, you need to have SSE2 enabled CPU!
Ah, I suspected it might be something like that. Thanks for the info, I'll see if I can get it running on my wife's Athlon 64 instead.

Edit: hm, I thought PLAY used a monolithic format but it seems there's a ton of wave files in there. That certainly does open up other possibilities.

Last edited by cerendir; 12-25-2009 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:13 AM   #13
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Dimitar - try using engine level 0. It's weird, I have 2 GB of RAM and I never received such message.

emanresuym - yes, it installs PACE drivers only, but the program itself doesn't use it. I guess it's tied to the code.
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:20 AM   #14
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Thanx ED
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:41 AM   #15
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I'm uploading a video now.

It works in a new fresh empty project.
But in a heavy project loaded with Steven Slate Drums it doesn't

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Old 12-25-2009, 06:57 AM   #16
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here is the video showing my problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dGaehaksAw

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Old 12-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #17
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Thanks for that info EvilDragon, it will not go on this system.....
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:58 PM   #18
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Why not? It's not installing spyware or anything. Doesn't hurt a bit.

You people are weird. Refusing free gifts for Christmas... :/
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitar View Post
Hi guys!
East west Symphonic Orchestra freebie is great, but can't produce any sound in Reaper.
In standalone it works great.
It says:

This engine level settings has exceeded your available system resources.

this is in a project loaded only with the Play plugin.


Any ideas?


I'm using Win7 32 bit and 4 GB of Ram.


Thanks,
Dimi
I can report it is working fine here. I set Engine Level = 2
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Why not? It's not installing spyware or anything. Doesn't hurt a bit.

You people are weird. Refusing free gifts for Christmas... :/
Hi Dragon,

on the site they claim "...it's our gift to you!"

The Eastwest stuff is really outstanding, but IMHO a gift is a gift. It's something that is given to you by pure kindness without an intention of getting anything in reward. But you can't get their "gift" if not giving information to them, so even if you don't have to pay money to them, you have to supply information (even if it's fake). They want something from YOU - otherwise no "gift". What an attitude! Where would Reaper be with such an attitude? This exectly is the thing, that calls warez-suppliers and crackers on the scene.

Dunno why Smurf is refusing to get this, but I can re-enect it, if somedody does.

To my taste their "In fact we only want your money!!" is a bit too obvious.

But anyway, seems to be very interesting...




-Data
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:13 PM   #21
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The survey is made to test out various range of machines their PLAY engine is going to be run - it's good info to EastWest and they will undoubtedly use it to further improve their products. I can see no harm there.

If anyone decides to upgrade to Gold or Platinum, they have a very big discount till Jan 31 2010 - 200$/140€ off on Gold, and 400$/280€ on Platinum. That is really an awesome deal if you compare the quality you're gonna get for that money.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
The survey is made to test out various range of machines their PLAY engine is going to be run - it's good info to EastWest and they will undoubtedly use it to further improve their products. I can see no harm there.
Maybe you're right, maybe I'm paranoid, but maybe not.

Point is, your not asked to, you must, if you want to get that what they call "gift". If you don't play their rules, you're out although they make their living out of what you pay to them, so you should be the boss, not they. You should be able to decide whether you want to take part in their survey, independently from getting the library. But you can't. This IMO is not very confidence-building but more arrogant.

I know, you'd say that the majority of people wouldn't take part in the survey, if they could get the lib without that and you'd be right. So it's all about efficiency - efficiency in sales politics, which is in fact just searching an answer to the question "How can I get the most money out of the customer?". This is eligible, but - as I said - not confidence-building. I - and that's just my personal point of view - don't feel comfortable if I'm compelled this way. Remember: they call it "gift".

On the other hand I'm happy that everybody can make his/her own decision, although I'd honestly like to see more people refusing to foster this kind of marketing, so more companies would maybe eventually follow Cockos' marketing strategy. But I'm surely aware that this is wishful thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
If anyone decides to upgrade to Gold or Platinum, they have a very big discount till Jan 31 2010 - 200$/140€ off on Gold, and 400$/280€ on Platinum. That is really an awesome deal if you compare the quality you're gonna get for that money.
Yes, I read that and their stuff is superior. But if you look at these off-prices, you can imagine (haven't looked it up 'though) what you have to pay for these versions on add. Can't afford this at the moment, so this isn't in the pipeline anyway unless our CD gets into the charts (sorta running gag in our band).




-Data
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:49 PM   #23
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The Symphonic Orchestra and all Eastwest instruments were developed for maximum sound quality and playability, requiring in general powerful computers with lots of RAM and a fast processor.

That said, on a reasonably equiped computer a small ensemble should run fine without too much trouble. I can run a full fledged orchestra on my computers without too much trouble (although it is pushing the limits of my 6 GB of RAM on my laptop and I am looking forward to RAM module prices going down so I can upgrade to 12 GB). That is a 64 bit vista ultimate laptop by the way, with a core i7 processor and three separate hard drives (custom built by PC Audiolabs).

Many people use Eastwest instruments in a master / slave setup, distributing the instruments over separate different computers. With the 64 bit computing era computers that may or may not become a thing of the past, although there are still physical limitations (12 GB for laptops being the max right now). Desktops are generally more powerful and the preferred route if you don't need portability.

Try to vary the engine level setting as well.

ED - I didn't think you can run any ewi instruments on Kontakt 4, my understanding is that it is a proprietary format which only works with Play.

ps Mr DATA - Eastwest is busy working on a number of new high end released, including Play Pro (with many tweaking features) and Hollywood Strings. They are on the cutting edge of developing virtual instruments used by professional film, TV and video game composers but also hobbyists. They are keenly interested in knowing where their 'core' customer base is and in fact have asked everyone to fill out the survey, including people that already have the SO such as myself (I have the Platinum Plus edition so I don't need this demo). There may be a quid or pro here, but those are the rules ... and if you want to take this further, there's another advantage for Eastwest, which is that once you installed SO and played around with them, you are most probably so blown away, you'll want to put a second mortgage on your house to upgrade to the full fledged product.

ps apologies for putting it in this forum - that is not really appropriate is it - I should have put it in the "Tips and Tricks" subforum.

Last edited by peter5992; 12-25-2009 at 05:59 PM. Reason: afterthought
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post

ps Mr DATA - Eastwest is busy working on a number of new high end released, including Play Pro (with many tweaking features) and Hollywood Strings. They are on the cutting edge of developing virtual instruments used by professional film, TV and video game composers but also hobbyists. They are keenly interested in knowing where their 'core' customer base is and in fact have asked everyone to fill out the survey, including people that already have the SO such as myself (I have the Platinum Plus edition so I don't need this demo). There may be a quid or pro here, but those are the rules ... and if you want to take this further, there's another advantage for Eastwest, which is that once you installed SO and played around with them, you are most probably so blown away, you'll want to put a second mortgage on your house to upgrade to the full fledged product.

ps apologies for putting it in this forum - that is not really appropriate is it - I should have put it in the "Tips and Tricks" subforum.
Thanks Peter, ...if I only had a house I could put a mortgage on...
I know! As I said: Their stuff is superior. You surely don't need to convince me in that matter. But WE, the customers should at least participate in laying down the rules, because WE make THEIR living. Otherwise we're just following sheep.

Sadly, companies, that make superior products or products that are thought to be superior or mass products that are bought by many people, tend to be somewhat arrogant.

EDIT:

I wouldn't say that your thread is in the wrong forum, because as you see: Dimitar and others are having some issues in getting this thingy going in Reaper.




-Data

Last edited by Mr. Data; 12-25-2009 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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ED - I didn't think you can run any ewi instruments on Kontakt 4, my understanding is that it is a proprietary format which only works with Play.
I didn't. I ran the same 11V Lyr A patch in .ewi and .nki on respective platforms (I have older EWQLSO Silver XP Pro). The sound is different by no more than 2% (when convolution is turned off and all PLAY scripting features as well) - surely nothing that justifies 300 MB more of RAM usage.

The only thing that took my attention was the pristine quality of convolution reverb. Everything else is not really that much different from Kontakt-based EWQLSO that I have, except more resource consumption.

Nope, even if I had a house I wouldn't put it under mortgage for PLAY. Not just yet. After they take care of resource hogging in RAM department, then maybe I would. But, until then... I'm happy with my Kontakt-based sample libraries.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 12-25-2009 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I didn't. I ran the same 11V Lyr A patch in .ewi and .nki on respective platforms (I have older EWQLSO Silver XP Pro). The sound is different by no more than 2% (when convolution is turned off and all PLAY scripting features as well) - surely nothing that justifies 300 MB more of RAM usage.

The only thing that took my attention was the pristine quality of convolution reverb. Everything else is not really that much different from Kontakt-based EWQLSO that I have, except more resource consumption.

Nope, even if I had a house I wouldn't put it under mortgage for PLAY. Not just yet. After they take care of resource hogging in RAM department, then maybe I would. But, until then... I'm happy with my Kontakt-based sample libraries.
This is why I've been very hesitant about buying any EW libraries. I've heard so many people say that PLAY is not superior to the Kompakt version, at least not significantly enough to warrant the huge increase in resource usage. EW may talk about complex features requiring powerful computers all they want but as far as I can tell, based on user opinions, PLAY is nothing more than the Vista of sample players. I.e. a bloated piece of software that will need monster hardware just to perform similarly to its predecessors.

If the Kompakt versions were still around, I might consider EWQLSO. As it stands, I'm not going to chance it.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:36 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I didn't. I ran the same 11V Lyr A patch in .ewi and .nki on respective platforms (I have older EWQLSO Silver XP Pro). The sound is different by no more than 2% (when convolution is turned off and all PLAY scripting features as well) - surely nothing that justifies 300 MB more of RAM usage.

The only thing that took my attention was the pristine quality of convolution reverb. Everything else is not really that much different from Kontakt-based EWQLSO that I have, except more resource consumption.
I still have the kontakt powered libraries as well (platinum pro xp and also symphonic choirs) - as a backup just in case something weird happens to Play or the way Play works with my other software. I know other EW users cling to the kompakt libraries as well, eg if they have elaborate templates created for kontakt that they have been using for a long time. I haven't yet had to go back to it though.

On a going forward basis, Play is EW's future, and they dedicate a significant part of their resources to perfecting it and making it compatible with as many different sequencing and software programs as possible (including notation software such as Sibelius, with the help of users and third parties). Aside from the convolution reverb the Play interface has a couple of other features that make it really attractive, eg the ability to easily switch on / off different mike settings (close / stage / surround), the surround which works well in a native 5.1 sound setup, portamento and legato scripts, and many different convolution reverb settings which all of the Play libraries share (allowing to use other Play instruments with the Symphonic Orchestra using the same type of convulution reverb used when the orchestra was originally recorded, that is, EW Hall LR). As an aside, it is recommended *not* to use additional convolution reverb for the symphonic orchestra since the samples were recorded 'wet' in a symphonic orchestra hall including natural reverb (which always sounds better and saves CPU power), but instead to vary the amount of reverb trails in the Play engine.

ps I am not affiliated with EW by the way, if I may sound like a cheerleader. ;-)
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Old 12-26-2009, 01:05 PM   #28
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Working just fine here on my dell laptop Turion64 Vista 32bit.
I can see that I will need to simplify parts and render FX to new take though - it is a resource hog for smaller units, but VERY doable.
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Yup, I confirm it works stable.

It is however an enormous RAM hog. I tested this with 11V Lyr A patch on both K4 and PLAY:

K4 standalone idle: ~50 MB mem usage, ~73 MB VM size
PLAY standalone idle: ~67 MB mem usage, ~368.5 MB VM size

Terrible.


However CPU use is ok with both. But RAM issues with PLAY should definitely be sorted. There is NO WAY IN HELL it needs THAT much RAM! It says that it loaded 800k of samples in RAM only (with the above patch), what the hell is PLAY using the rest of RAM for, then? Changing engine DFD levels doesn't change much.

Installed, but I can't seem to locate it. Do you know where the default dll would be loaded?
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:20 PM   #30
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You decide where will the .dll be located upon install.
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
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You decide where will the .dll be located upon install.

I installed the msi file, must have missed that screen although I was looking for it... hmmmmmmmmmmm


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Old 12-26-2009, 04:45 PM   #32
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by default, the .dll installed in program files/commonfiles/eastwest/vst or something like that, so it was in the common files folder.

I'm wondering if its possible to install 32 bit symphony orch on a 64 bit windows 7 os, because I can't get it to work.

If anyone has successfully installed the 32 bit on windows 7 64 (this way I can use it with Reaper x86) let me know? If its possible I'll try a couple more things.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Installed, but I can't seem to locate it. Do you know where the default dll would be loaded?
The VSTi dll is called 'play_VST.dll'. You don't need to do a reinstall. You can move the VSTi dll after the installation to your preferred VST folder, but don't move the library files.

When I installed it, the default location for the dll was
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins FLstudio

Sometimes, the default is
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins

I moved the VST dll it to my preferred VST folder which happens to be C:\Program Files\VSTPlugIns on my computer.

Pete
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:38 PM   #34
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The VSTi dll is called 'play_VST.dll'. You don't need to do a reinstall. You can move the VSTi dll after the installation to your preferred VST folder, but don't move the library files.

When I installed it, the default location for the dll was
C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins FLstudio

Sometimes, the default is
C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins

I moved the VST dll it to my preferred VST folder which happens to be C:\Program Files\VSTPlugIns on my computer.

Pete
Thank you for this post - all is well now. It loads and plays well within Reaper.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:17 PM   #35
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This library sounds absolutely beautiful! If you haven't grabbed it up yet, you should seriously consider it before the offer goes away.

G
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:29 AM   #36
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Hi!

I just downloaded it but I can't manage to install it, I have this 1721 error...

I use Windows 7, 64 bits... Any ideas about the problem?

Thank you
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Old 01-01-2010, 07:25 AM   #37
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I managed to install it (64 bits) but Reaper doesn't find the dll in my folder, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do. It works fine as a stand alone by the way.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:01 AM   #38
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Location: In perpetual hope
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Originally Posted by Anaon View Post
Hi!

I just downloaded it but I can't manage to install it, I have this 1721 error...

I use Windows 7, 64 bits... Any ideas about the problem?

Thank you
Anaon, I use XP Pro X64 and had the 32bit installer rejected, so I used the 64 bit installer for the library. I installed the 32 bit version on my laptop and copied the 32bit vst (called Play) to my Reaper 32 bit plugin folder - works fine.

Never thought I'd get anything like excited about marimba samples....

Good luck
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:58 AM   #39
Anaon
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Location: Roazhon, France
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Thanks for your help but I can't record the 32 bits version, well the play.dll is not installed. I don't really know what to do...
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:35 AM   #40
Quasar
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Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
Hi Dragon,

on the site they claim "...it's our gift to you!"

The Eastwest stuff is really outstanding, but IMHO a gift is a gift. It's something that is given to you by pure kindness without an intention of getting anything in reward. But you can't get their "gift" if not giving information to them, so even if you don't have to pay money to them, you have to supply information (even if it's fake). They want something from YOU - otherwise no "gift".
-Data
Yup. This is clearly and obviously true. It's not a "gift", but a marketing tactic, and should be recognized as such.

But that having been said, the price (an email address and short survey) is extremely attractive. I've had some of the EW stuff before, the samples that came with the Kontakt 2 library, and there is no doubt that they make great-sounding VSTis.

So thanks for the link! I've already downloaded, and look forward to trying it out in the next day or so.
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