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05-14-2022, 12:58 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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v6.57+dev0514 - May 14 2022
v6.57+dev0514 - May 14 2022
- * Includes feature branch: improve experimental silent-track CPU reduction option to include FX tail length
- * Includes feature branch: improved render loudness charts
- * Includes feature branch: render individual tracks via master track using render matrix
- * Includes feature branch: media item fixed lanes
- * Includes feature branch: internal pin management overhaul for future extension
- * Includes feature branch: media explorer user-defined tags
- + Auto-save: improve error messages [t=62857]
- + FX browser: allow configurating default per-plugin for auto-bypass silence
- + FX browser: allow configuring defaults per-plugin of want-all-keyboard, TCP/MCP embed, and oversampling
- + FX browser: move compatibility settings to submenu
- + FX silence detection: add options to auto-bypass all plug-ins that report tail length, option to auto-bypass even when UI is open
- + Video: decode mono audio to stereo when using Windows Media Foundation
- + Video: fix WMF decoding of certain video files on Windows 7
- + Video: support decoding/encoding on pre-Windows 8 using Windows Media Foundation
- # FX silence detection: configurable silence threshold, raised default to -100dB
- # FX: disable silence auto-bypass for ARA plug-ins
- # FX: reorganize auto-bypass menu items slightly
- # FX: when plug-ins report very short tails, validate output (fixes Valhalla plug-ins etc)
- # LV2: fix storage of lv2 state-change notification config
- # WMF: re-allow decoding on Win7
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.
Changelog - Pre-Releases
Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-14-2022, 01:25 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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+ FX browser: allow configuring defaults per-plugin of want-all-keyboard, TCP/MCP embed, and oversampling
Super useful thanks!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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05-14-2022, 02:48 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
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THX for everything... looks really great.
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05-14-2022, 03:37 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 4,597
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Can I ask whats the status of fixed lanes? It does not get much updates as before
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05-14-2022, 03:42 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
[*]+ FX browser: allow configurating default per-plugin for auto-bypass silence[*]+ FX browser: allow configuring defaults per-plugin of want-all-keyboard, TCP/MCP embed, and oversampling[*]+ FX browser: move compatibility settings to submenu[*]+ FX silence detection: add options to auto-bypass all plug-ins that report tail length, option to auto-bypass even when UI is open[*]# FX silence detection: configurable silence threshold, raised default to -100dB[*]# FX: disable silence auto-bypass for ARA plug-ins[*]# FX: reorganize auto-bypass menu items slightly[*]# FX: when plug-ins report very short tails, validate output (fixes Valhalla plug-ins etc)
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Having spent most of yesterday opening plugin windows to enable auto-bypass the default/FX browser options are greatly appreciated.
( *EDIT* After changing the default auto-bypass settings in the FX browser this doesn't seem to be reflected in existing projects. Obviously we want the FX instance setting saved in projects to override the default and I realize the option is for new instances, but maybe FX in projects with a modified date before this was added could reflect the default setting? Or if the setting was accessible from the Project Bay it could be enabled for 100 plugins with one click?)
Configurable threshold is amazing too! Aside from DSEQ all other silence bypass features I'm aware of in plugins can get tripped up by even -200dB noise.
Reaper's implementation seems to have much less overhead (close to 0), or maybe it's not reflected in the performance window for tracks?
While I still hope for separate RT/offline OS settings (or global OS bypass) someday, auto-bypass allows using FX oversampling in more places with less of a performance hit.
Btw, I notice the CPU % for individual tracks drop a lot with auto-bypass but RT CPU stays static. With test projects the render time is massively increased, but after enabling auto-bypass on complex existing projects the render time is nearly identical so I think there might be some combination of project structure, routing, or mix of native/dedicated/separate FX that's limiting the benefit. I'll report back if I nail anything down.
[Also it's a can of worms I'll save for another thread, but now that Reaper can measure the amplitude before/after a plugin this opens up a path to native AGC (automatic gain compensation) for plugins that lack it. Imagine being able to judge plugins and mix decisions based on the actual sound rather than being constantly fooled by level increases. I swear by this feature in plugins that have it (Melda etc.), and while I own AB_LM and GainMatch needing to add 2 extra plugins just to gain compensate 1 is a clunky workaround.]
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FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
Last edited by PitchSlap; 05-14-2022 at 04:44 PM.
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05-14-2022, 03:49 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
v6.57+dev0514 - May 14 2022[*]+ FX silence detection: add options to auto-bypass all plug-ins that report tail length, option to auto-bypass even when UI is open
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Thank you for this and all other additions!
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05-14-2022, 03:50 PM
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#8
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
While I still hope for separate RT/offline OS settings (or global OS bypass) someday, auto-bypass allows using FX oversampling in more places with less of a performance hit.
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Having different OS settings for playback vs rendering isn't going to happen, you should be rendering what you mixed!
Auto-bypass probably falls into the same category.
Quote:
[Also it's a can of worms I'll save for another thread, but now that Reaper can measure the amplitude before/after a plugin this opens up a path to native AGC (automatic gain compensation) for plugins that lack it.
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It's not measuring amplitude it's detecting silence, a big difference in computational intensity (if not silent, usually that will be detected in the first few samples of each block, and if silent, takes more work but at least you get to bypass the plug-in).
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05-14-2022, 03:57 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,990
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These new FX Browser settings are much appreciated. No more forgetting to "Send all keystrokes to plugin!"
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05-14-2022, 10:51 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 156
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I'm still having issues with the appearance of the muted/unsoloed track/item overlay mode on MacOS Retina. Setting it to overlay mode 0.50 seems to emulate the old behavior for tracks but not items. Items don't look as dark as they normally do.
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05-15-2022, 01:06 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Having different OS settings for playback vs rendering isn't going to happen, you should be rendering what you mixed!
Auto-bypass probably falls into the same category.
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You're right, OS can definitely change the sound and more (or any) isn't always "better".
What about a global bypass toggle action to temporarily disable any plugin oversampling (purely for troubleshooting )?
Many top developers include offline quality settings (i.e. Voxengo, U-HE, DMG, XFer, Cytomic, TDR, Melda, SIR, D16), I love the extra flexibility, but it's always optional. The reason it's desirable is after checking with OS you can lower/disable it to reduce CPU for RT playback when it maxes out, or to mix at a lower buffer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
It's not measuring amplitude it's detecting silence, a big difference in computational intensity (if not silent, usually that will be detected in the first few samples of each block, and if silent, takes more work but at least you get to bypass the plug-in).
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Ah, thanks for the explanation. That's probably far more efficient.
I haven't noticed a performance hit using auto-gain, but loudness measurement is only really necessary when tweaking settings or browsing presets and can be set to a fixed gain the rest of the time.
AGC in Klanghelm SDDR2 uses ~0.001c at 64 samples.
I didn't check the JS version of AB Level Matching, but the VST version uses under >0.01c at 64 samples for R128, Melda's ACG is half or less of that, maybe as it doesn't need 2 plugin instances.
Melda's description:
Quote:
The loudness measurement follows the ITU and EBU specifications with an RMS of 400ms...
Set button uses the AGC (automatic gain compensation) processor to calculate the ideal output gain to ensure that the output audio loudness is equal to the input level. To use it, simply enable playback in your host and click the button. The plugin's output gain will be adjusted to match the input and output levels as closely as possible.
Typically you will browse presets, generate random settings etc. During the entire time you will have AGC enabled to prevent you from experiencing different output loudness levels. When you find a sonically ideal setup, you simply click the Set button to set the output gain automatically and disable the AGC as you won't need it anymore.
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Anyway, thanks for the update and clarification. I'll take any ACG discussion to the FR section to not derail.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
Last edited by PitchSlap; 05-15-2022 at 01:22 AM.
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05-15-2022, 01:33 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 186
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Great updates!
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05-15-2022, 06:37 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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FX auto-bypass on silence
IOW if the auto-bypass menu items in FX Chain should be disabled if the feature is not enabled in Options? Its a bit confusing since you're allowed to toggle the feature for an FX but has no effect if the feature is disabled in Options.
Or maybe just enable the feature by default in Options?
Last edited by Edgemeal; 05-15-2022 at 06:45 AM.
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05-15-2022, 01:25 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
IOW if the auto-bypass menu items in FX Chain should be disabled if the feature is not enabled in Options? Its a bit confusing since you're allowed to toggle the feature for an FX but has no effect if the feature is disabled in Options.
Or maybe just enable the feature by default in Options?
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Firstly, thank you DEVs for this feature! It's amazing.
Can someone please explain to me how to get the feature enabled for all FX so I don't need to apply to each fx chain or each plugin?
I could be wrong but it seems that regardless of the setting in Reaper preferences, the user has to turn on the feature at the FX level one by one.
It would be much less time consuming to disable a few fx chains options then to enable the feature for every fx chain individually. So IMHO, if enabled in the Reaper main preferences, then auto-bypass should be enabled for all plugins and all FX chains.
This would retroactively enable the feature for all session created before this option was created.
We as users could then shut off the feature or disable for induvial tracks/ FX.
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05-15-2022, 02:42 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,990
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Agree. It seems like the Preference setting for Auto-Bypass works the opposite as I'd expect. At least if the Help Text in the preferences screen is any indicator. I'd expect the preference to set the default behavior (on or off), then any plugin to be able to override the default. So baseline is Preferences, and the plugin's individual settings are the override. But as written, I took it to mean the opposite; that the plugin settings would be overriden by the Preference.
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05-15-2022, 02:56 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
[*]+ FX browser: allow configuring defaults per-plugin of want-all-keyboard, TCP/MCP embed, and oversampling
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Regarding "Send all keyboard input to plugin", can we get that behavior fixed where it currently still fails? No matter what that is set to, I can't enter a space in a Softube plugin without triggering Transport: play. I think a few other manufacturers have the same issue, but Softube is the biggest company where it occurs the most here.
Example:
1. Load any Softube plugin (VST2 or VST3 - using Windows)
2. From the plugin menu, check "Send all keyboard input to plugin"
3. Click the preset menu and select "Add Preset"
4. Try to type in the following preset name: Bass Guitar
Result: the preset name is BassGuitar and the transport has started. Clearly "Send all keyboard input to plugin" is not working with these plugins.
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05-15-2022, 03:12 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot
Agree. It seems like the Preference setting for Auto-Bypass works the opposite as I'd expect. At least if the Help Text in the preferences screen is any indicator. I'd expect the preference to set the default behavior (on or off), then any plugin to be able to override the default. So baseline is Preferences, and the plugin's individual settings are the override. But as written, I took it to mean the opposite; that the plugin settings would be overriden by the Preference.
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Exactly! Preference should be king unless the user changes it on the track or fx level.
IMHO this should work exactly how track preference works. For example when the user sets the default track settings for time base and performance it applies to all new tracks unless the user specifies otherwise.
It would be also be a huge help if the preference retrospectively applied to all tracks in sessions created before this feature.
I really hope I don't have to go back tracks by track. This would also be a pain for redoing all my track templates.
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05-15-2022, 03:46 PM
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#18
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
IOW if the auto-bypass menu items in FX Chain should be disabled if the feature is not enabled in Options? Its a bit confusing since you're allowed to toggle the feature for an FX but has no effect if the feature is disabled in Options.
Or maybe just enable the feature by default in Options?
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The preference auto-bypasses all plug-ins that report tail information, regardless of the state of the per-FX option.
The per-FX option forces for a particular plug-in (regardless of the global option), even plug-ins which don't report tail information (there are many).
In general: setting the global auto-bypass option will work correctly assuming all of your plug-ins _properly_ report their tail information.
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05-15-2022, 03:58 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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Thanks for clarifying!
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05-15-2022, 04:13 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,990
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Thanks Justin! Got it now.
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05-15-2022, 07:41 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
The preference auto-bypasses all plug-ins that report tail information, regardless of the state of the per-FX option.
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Thank you for the clarification Justin. You're the best!
Would it be possible to create a global preference that auto-bypasses all plug-ins regardless of reporting the tail information.
It seems that most of the plugins I use regularly don't report tail info so I have to go through every plugin and set them to auto-bypass.
Unless I'm missing something, I would have to set the preference on each plugin and repeat that process for every session and every track template I've created. Seems like a global preference would be much easier.
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05-15-2022, 08:45 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srdmusic
Would it be possible to create a global preference that auto-bypasses all plug-ins regardless of reporting the tail information.
Unless I'm missing something, I would have to set the preference on each plugin and repeat that process for every session and every track template I've created. Seems like a global preference would be much easier.
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You can just right-click on all the FX you want it default enabled for in the FX browser but the setting is only for new instances.
Unfortunately if you're like me with a ton of existing projects it still means opening each FX window and manually enabling it.
Hopefully there can be a tweak to allow multi-selecting FX from the Project Bay to quickly turn it on (or have projects saved before the feature was added to obey the FX browser default).
I think this is S1's performance window, but I like how it shows the auto-bypass status and CPU for each FX instance.
It would be pretty sweet to see the CPU usage per-plugin, sort highest to lowest, and select/enable for those using the most.
Turning off the CPU column could disable the per-FX CPU measurement if there's a performance cost.
There'd be some functionality overlap but it might be easier to add in the FX section of the Project Bay than to rework the Performance window.
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FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
Last edited by PitchSlap; 05-15-2022 at 08:58 PM.
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05-16-2022, 02:03 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,180
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Auto-bypass on silence is great for large projects.
Just opened a project for a film that has loads of tracks on various sections with a lot of unused tracks on most of the project. The CPU was hitting 38% before and now is reduced to 11% on some sections.
Strangely after going through every track in the project and enabling the auto-silence feature, I then went back into the preferences and unchecked both "auto-bypass all FX that report tail length information" and "Reduce CPU use of silent tracks during playback" and was expecting to see individual tracks CPU jump from zero to some low number in the Performance Meter. This didn't happen and it looked like the feature was still active (track CPUs were still at zero). Even on saving and restarting the project (or restarting Reaper) this persisted.
Edit: FYI I started by first selected all plugins in the FX browser and enabled for new instances in one go there.
Soundtoys Echoboy and Echoboy Jr dont seem to respond to the -100db level (can't get them to go to zero CPU).
It would be great to be able to enable this eventually for all plugins in a project in one go. For testing purposes this would also be less intensive for us
Last edited by Triode; 05-16-2022 at 02:15 AM.
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05-16-2022, 09:47 AM
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#24
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triode
Auto-bypass on silence is great for large projects.
Just opened a project for a film that has loads of tracks on various sections with a lot of unused tracks on most of the project. The CPU was hitting 38% before and now is reduced to 11% on some sections.
Strangely after going through every track in the project and enabling the auto-silence feature, I then went back into the preferences and unchecked both "auto-bypass all FX that report tail length information" and "Reduce CPU use of silent tracks during playback" and was expecting to see individual tracks CPU jump from zero to some low number in the Performance Meter. This didn't happen and it looked like the feature was still active (track CPUs were still at zero). Even on saving and restarting the project (or restarting Reaper) this persisted.
Edit: FYI I started by first selected all plugins in the FX browser and enabled for new instances in one go there.
Soundtoys Echoboy and Echoboy Jr dont seem to respond to the -100db level (can't get them to go to zero CPU).
It would be great to be able to enable this eventually for all plugins in a project in one go. For testing purposes this would also be less intensive for us
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If you enable the preference option: it enables it for all plug-ins that declare themselves "silence in silence out"
Otherwise, you would use the per-FX option to set (which works for FX that don't declare silence/silence). Setting it for all plugins in a project would be risky, since some plug-in might not meet that criteria?
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05-16-2022, 10:04 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
ISetting it for all plugins in a project would be risky, since some plug-in might not meet that criteria?
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Ah ok it's a multi-pronged attack on CPU use.
What criteria do they need to follow for the per FX option if it's not declaring"silence in silence out"?
I don't use the pre releases on work so I was trying to see what would happen with all the stops pulled out.
Really appreciating this push to make reaper more agile
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05-16-2022, 12:54 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Nice reordering of plugin compatibility etc options!
Might I suggest - I would very much appreciate having per plugin oversampling options when right-clicking the title bar of a floating plugin window. Makes sense, no?
Maybe even add track level oversampling options in a submenu there, for convenience.
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05-16-2022, 05:06 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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Quote:
+ FX silence detection: add options to auto-bypass all plug-ins that report tail length, option to auto-bypass even when UI is open
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When switching FX from their graphics UI to the generic/non-graphic one the plugin seems to get bypassed, even with these settings (see gif). Expected?
Tested, new project, empty track, not rec armed, no media.
Win10_x64
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05-16-2022, 05:28 PM
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#28
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
When switching FX from their graphics UI to the generic/non-graphic one the plugin seems to get bypassed, even with these settings (see gif). Expected?
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Yep, the only reason it runs when the UI is open is because some UIs give feedback...
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05-16-2022, 05:34 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Setting it for all plugins in a project would be risky, since some plug-in might not meet that criteria?
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I would very much apricate the ability to take that risk. IMHHO it is much easier to turn off the setting on a few problem plugins than it is to the setting on turn on for hundreds of plugins in the session that don't meet the tail requirements.
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05-16-2022, 05:38 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Setting it for all plugins in a project would be risky, since some plug-in might not meet that criteria?
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If an option/action to enable for all plugins in a project respected the default setting in the FX browser, problematic plugins would already be excluded and we'd have a solution for existing projects.
I've probably spent nearly 10 hours in the last few days enabling this one plugin at a time. I just now discovered it can be enabled for multiple plugins from the FX chain window, though still lots of work with high track counts.
So far I haven't discovered any problems with a wide variety of plugins (knock on wood), but I sort tracks by CPU usage and don't bother with FX that use negligible CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Nice reordering of plugin compatibility etc options!
Might I suggest - I would very much appreciate having per plugin oversampling options when right-clicking the title bar of a floating plugin window. Makes sense, no?
Maybe even add track level oversampling options in a submenu there, for convenience.
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I agree with OS options, but think the menu should be reordered.
Embedded UI options are nearly always greyed out so should be last or hidden for incompatible plugins.
Also if there were actions for auto-bypass/OS settings we could add them to the FX context menu in the mixer.
This saves opening the FX GUI's which often open in different and inconvenient locations.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
Last edited by PitchSlap; 05-16-2022 at 05:50 PM.
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05-16-2022, 06:09 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srdmusic
I would very much apricate the ability to take that risk. IMHHO it is much easier to turn off the setting on a few problem plugins than it is to the setting on turn on for hundreds of plugins in the session that don't meet the tail requirements.
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+1000
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05-17-2022, 02:26 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
I agree with OS options, but think the menu should be reordered.
Embedded UI options are nearly always greyed out so should be last or hidden for incompatible plugins.
Also if there were actions for auto-bypass/OS settings we could add them to the FX context menu in the mixer.
This saves opening the FX GUI's which often open in different and inconvenient locations.
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Agreed with all.
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05-19-2022, 11:42 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
If you enable the preference option: it enables it for all plug-ins that declare themselves "silence in silence out"
Otherwise, you would use the per-FX option to set (which works for FX that don't declare silence/silence). Setting it for all plugins in a project would be risky, since some plug-in might not meet that criteria?
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Hi Justin,
I worked with one of the other Reaper forum scripters, HEDA, to build s similar script to your new Auto-Bypass. It is a part of the HEDA Tag's v2 script.
It essentially looks at items and uses track automation to bypass fx when there is no region playing back. Using track automation to bypass plugins isn't ideal but there is one aspect of HEDA's script that I believe could streamline what we're after.
HEDA's script looks at regions instead of detecting audio coming in/ out of plugins.
I am not sure if this helps with false positives in your silence detector but perhaps all VSTs should turn on when there is a region and the user can set a tail length for where there is no region. Do you think this might reduce the number of calls to the processor detecting if there is audio going through a plugin if Reaper is simply looking at regions?
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