Old 05-20-2019, 08:19 AM   #401
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Wow this is even better! What i meant before was to open this tool selection wherever we right click on the selection, in order to have some extra menu if the envelope presets menu would be implemented.

But heyy,could be both ways. The way you mentioned right click on the zones to show the tool selection for the specific zone,and second when right click outside of the zones to show the envelope presets menu with the shapes

And yes left click execute-right click toggle(open/close) the selection menu

Last edited by Vagelis; 05-20-2019 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:23 AM   #402
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Both ways would definitely cover a lot of workflows!
It's hard to decide without having used the tool, yet.
So yeah, if Sexan agrees, I'd like to see both methods
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:58 AM   #403
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One last thing which i 'm aware that it wouldn't be easy at all but i'll give it a shot..
An action to open AS setup menu similar to Radial setup menu.In order to configure mouse modifiers for the envelope transform actions on each zone, select which of the tool menus to appear on the area zones seperately for items,envelopes etc.. (right click on the zone to open the tool menu and trigger the action)

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Old 05-20-2019, 09:47 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
One last thing which i 'm aware that it wouldn't be easy at all but i'll give it a shot..
An action to open AS setup menu similar to Radial setup menu.In order to configure mouse modifiers for the envelope transform actions on each zone, select which of the tool menus (or dropdown menus) to appear on the area zones seperately for items,envelopes etc..

That is in the work...big problem is that every script here is major work so it will take time.

I think we should do some documentation how whole AS things would work... and one guy here does that beautifully. We need to summon Airon here!
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:55 PM   #405
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Airon, Airon, Airon!
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:18 PM   #406
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Following few most discussed threads about AS. Regarding copy/paste drag-copy:

When Track and its envelope are selected should it :

Single AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks
B) lock to match criteria - Copy on its tracks or tracks with same hierarchy


Multiple AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks (Copy all AS at once)
B) lock to match criteria - Copy Individual AS (via select AS showed few pages back

Only Tracks or Envelopes
Items - copy anywhere
Envelopes - copy to match criteria

Would need some examples from other DAWS if possible how they handle normal copy vs drag copy if there is a difference.

The topic is Drag-Copy vs normal Copy. Throw ideas around

Updated first post with lovely gifs

Last edited by Sexan; 05-20-2019 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:26 AM   #407
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Sorry haven't followed this thread very closely (nice work btw!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Single AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks
What is the benefit of this limitation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
B) lock to match criteria - Copy on its tracks or tracks with same hierarchy
what does "same hierarchy" mean? Does it only copy volume envelopes alongside items to tracks which already have volume envelope lanes? It doesn't create volume enveopes for those new tracks? Why not? Is it possible to determine if the copied-to tracks have the same FX parameters and automatically create envelope lanes for the copied points to go to?
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:55 AM   #408
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From user point of view none,from programming point of view a lot. There are some scenarios where this is the only option:
1. multiple AS with combination of tracks and envelopes

If you want to copy that as WHOLE where should copy go since other tracks have radnom envelopes or even none. This scenario requires horizontal lock.

As for single AS it can copy anywhere and discard non matched one.

This is pretty deep topic and its not that simple

The second part can be done

Last edited by Sexan; 05-21-2019 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:50 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Would need some examples from other DAWS if possible how they handle normal copy vs drag copy if there is a difference.
IMO it should be like this:
when drag it just moves (not copy)
CMD (or CTRL) + drag -> copies
CMD (or CTRL) + D -> duplicate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Single AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks
B) lock to match criteria - Copy on its tracks or tracks with same hierarchy


Multiple AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks (Copy all AS at once)
B) lock to match criteria - Copy Individual AS (via select AS showed few pages back

Only Tracks or Envelopes
Items - copy anywhere
Envelopes - copy to match criteria

where should copy go since other tracks have radnom envelopes or even none.
i would say:
Single AS : B) lock to match criteria - Copy on its tracks or tracks with same hierarchy
not sure what you mean by lock (i guess -> it does not allow without criteria matching)


Multiple AS: B) lock to match criteria - Copy Individual AS (via select AS showed few pages back)
not sure what is: "via select AS showed few pages back" , .. i think it should be the same as for single (or just mediaItems, or envelopes). It copies if it fits, .. if it does not fit .. not fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
where should copy go since other tracks have radnom envelopes or even none.
again, IMO Multiple should not allow if criteria is not matched, but not locked to same track because limiting here would limit something that can be useful example: when you duplicate a track and it's layer tracks (or parallels). Those will always fit

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:07 AM   #410
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if you have multiple as, you can choose which one will be active with numbers 1-9 (gif copy like a boss) to be used for individual copy




i have 3 AS and I choose active one with numbers 1-3

by default last created one is active

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:26 AM   #411
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Its quite impressive! In practice I don't know.. I would at least the default method would be to copy the whole "as time selection".. then maybe 1 to 9 for subselections.
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:28 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Its quite impressive! In practice I don't know.. I would at least the default method would be to copy the whole "as time selection".. then maybe 1 to 9 for subselections.

that is default,additional shortcut is for active one. in practice this shit improves speed by 200% if you want to arrange stuff,make loops,sound design
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:33 AM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
This is pretty deep topic and its not that simple
For sure. You're essentially creating a part of a DAW from scratch. The best thing to do - like you said - is probably to check other DAWs for reference, as they had to figure this out before.

In my opinion, less restriction with the envelopes would be better/more universally usable, but that will of course bring it's own complications, like do you immediately create the new envelope lanes when you drag+copy the selection onto new tracks. That might cause a lot of flickering/resizing issues when the TCP is shuffled around.
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:46 AM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
in practice this shit improves speed by 200% if you want to arrange stuff,make loops,sound design
Hehe yehh! Awesome! (y) : ) i am looking forward to put my hands on it : )
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:52 AM   #415
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Lets say you want to rearrange snare,kick,guitar,vox you have to:

1. select part of vocal, copy it around etc
2. select next track
3. select part of snare, copy it around
4. select next track
5. select part of kick, copy it around
6. do this for every part you want to copy

with this you
1. select part of snare,kick,guitar,vox
2. press 1-4 (switch active selection)
3. paste it around
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:10 AM   #416
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yep yep! arranging, and micro arranging : ) go go sexan
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:08 AM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
if you have multiple as, you can choose which one will be active with numbers 1-9 (gif copy like a boss) to be used for individual copy

i have 3 AS and I choose active one with numbers 1-3

by default last created one is active

Maybe faster to choose which of the selection will be active when multi selecting, if just hover the mouse over the specified selection and automatically copy this selection instead of using numbers?

So multi select 3 objects. then use copy action, hover the mouse over a selection gets the selection we want, left click to execute paste or paste action.

Also here's a video from cubase range tool that shows some of the actions available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcx239rrvuo

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Old 05-21-2019, 04:46 AM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post

So multi select 3 objects. then use copy action, hover the mouse over a selection gets the selection we want, left click to execute paste or paste action.
How is this faster than activating it via key? You have to hover here and there all the time, what if selection is not on the screen anymore (its above,below etc), what if accidentally you hover over another one?

Maybe I did not understand you very well ?
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:48 AM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Following few most discussed threads about AS. Regarding copy/paste drag-copy:

When Track and its envelope are selected should it :

Single AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks
B) lock to match criteria - Copy on its tracks or tracks with same hierarchy


Multiple AS
A) lock horizontally - Copy only on its tracks (Copy all AS at once)
B) lock to match criteria - Copy Individual AS (via select AS showed few pages back

Only Tracks or Envelopes
Items - copy anywhere
Envelopes - copy to match criteria

Would need some examples from other DAWS if possible how they handle normal copy vs drag copy if there is a difference.

The topic is Drag-Copy vs normal Copy. Throw ideas around

Updated first post with lovely gifs

In Cubase the range tool copy or move the selection normally with items. And if an item and its envelope is selected from a track,it copy-move the selection to another track with the same number of envelopes open. Checkout the gifs:

https://gifyu.com/image/9YEa

https://gifyu.com/image/9YE5
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:56 AM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
what if selection is not on the screen anymore (its above,below etc)
True i didn't think of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
what if accidentally you hover over another one?
This wouldn't be much of a problem, but yeah,i think your way with the numbers is better.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:59 AM   #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
This is what I've meant with criteria match, so all of the tracks and envelopes match

Thank you for this gifs, keep them comming

Also what happens if you try to move it to the bottom end of the project? does it create exact copy of source or it does not do anything?
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:11 AM   #422
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You mean this?

If item and envelope are selected it does nothing, if only item is selected it creates a track and move the item.

https://gifyu.com/image/9YhW
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:17 AM   #423
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Actually, I would expect it to create a new track as seen in the gif + the envelope.
But maybe this is only me?
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:23 AM   #424
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Yes that, not sure if I would allow that in here. We will see. My code ATM makes new tracks and paste items there. but my offset is little off
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:28 AM   #425
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Here's another cool feature. Select a track at the top, then go to the bottom track shift+left click creates a range from top to the bottom.(It works both horizontal and vertical)

Then when all parts are selected, ctrl+left click deselects parts from the selection and move the selected parts only.(here when we deselect the parts we can drag the selection of the selected parts only horizontally) (i tried to drag a part vertically but it glues all the parts together)

https://gifyu.com/image/9Yvl

https://gifyu.com/image/9Yve

Last edited by Vagelis; 05-21-2019 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:40 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Here's another cool feature. Select a track at the top, then go to the bottom track shift+left click creates a range from top to the bottom.(It works both horizontal and vertical)

Then when all parts are selected, ctrl+left click deselects parts from the selection and move the selected parts only.(here when we deselect the parts we can drag the selecttion of the selected parts only horizontally) (i tried to drag a part vertically but it glues all the parts together)

https://gifyu.com/image/9Yvl

https://gifyu.com/image/9Yve
yeah I'm implementig that already
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:14 AM   #427
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Seems that it's moving the selection according to the number of the envelope lane 1-2 etc with this way.
For items only it works normally.

https://gifyu.com/image/9Ymt
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:09 AM   #428
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If I also can get some gifs from other DAWs like S1, new cubendo and PT. It is easier for me to see how other software use their AS than reading about it. Searching on youtube is useless because I'm looking for specific things.

Some form of consolidated information would be great.

Feature X
Behavior X

etc
I'm following our AS bible from here
https://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=122
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:15 AM   #429
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Bunch of great stuff. Incredible what can be done, judging by the gifs in the first post.

My vote goes to fitting in to Reapers existing functionality as much as possible, i.e. CTRL+drag copies, CTRL+D duplicates for example.

The zone stuff looks cool. Macro editing, treating an area like an item.


Pasting an individual envelope is probably easy.

The rest is, as others have no doubt already said, matching what you have in the source-area/copy-buffer to the target area.

Example. Item with volume envelope. Easy. The target area gets its volume envelope activated if it isn't already.

The same for any envelope that exists in the target area. ReaEQ plugin, frequency band 1.... if it can be matched, do it.


Copying from one envelope to a different one, you're talking an optional on-by-default "Do you want to paste this data to an unrelated envelope ?" question.

One might even use a different mouse modifier for pasting uncorrelated envelope data ??
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:21 AM   #430
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AS lord is here!!!

OK

Regarding actually draw the selection should we use modifiers?

ATM single click drag mouse modifiers (item,track,arrange) needs to be adjusted (to do nothing).

Just for testing stuff around while key intercept script is still being developed:
1. Draw AS - Click drag or Ctrl/Shift + drag?
2. Copy - Ctrl + c
3. Paste - Ctrl + v
4. Delete - Del
5. ESC - removes all AS
6 1-9 - activates single AS from multiple ones
10. Mouse zones L-C-R on mouse drag Move, resize AS
11. Mouse zones on ALT drag stretches items/envelopes in the AS

Now I would like to introduce "new" concept of copy paste:

Because we have item ghost images to actually see where the paste will land they need to be showed first so:
1. Ctrl + C makes copy buffer with all the stuff that is under AS
2. Ctrl + V activates "Paste mode" where item ghosts now appear following mouse cursor
3. Mouse click to make paste at cursor position (which can be in snap or free mode depending if snap is activate)

I like this behavior very much (anyway my life is now ruined as far as reaper goes this this AS stuff is sooooooooooo awesome)

If we can agree with some of this points so I can implement them ASAP and as soon I finish paste behavior (it needs some work with offsets, source - destination match etc) and currently finishing item ghost code, The script will go live for testing (few days,maybe sooner since I'm coding 24-7)

Last edited by Sexan; 05-21-2019 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:03 PM   #431
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Oh dude, don't know what to say.
I encourage everyone to press the donate button, NOW!
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:38 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
AS lord is here!!!

OK

Regarding actually draw the selection should we use modifiers?

ATM single click drag mouse modifiers (item,track,arrange) needs to be adjusted (to do nothing).

Just for testing stuff around while key intercept script is still being developed:
1. Draw AS - Click drag or Ctrl/Shift + drag?
2. Copy - Ctrl + c
3. Paste - Ctrl + v
4. Delete - Del
5. ESC - removes all AS
6 1-9 - activates single AS from multiple ones
10. Mouse zones L-C-R on mouse drag Move, resize AS
11. Mouse zones on ALT drag stretches items/envelopes in the AS

Now I would like to introduce "new" concept of copy paste:

Because we have item ghost images to actually see where the paste will land they need to be showed first so:
1. Ctrl + C makes copy buffer with all the stuff that is under AS
2. Ctrl + V activates "Paste mode" where item ghosts now appear following mouse cursor
3. Mouse click to make paste at cursor position (which can be in snap or free mode depending if snap is activate)

I like this behavior very much (anyway my life is now ruined as far as reaper goes this this AS stuff is sooooooooooo awesome)

If we can agree with some of this points so I can implement them ASAP and as soon I finish paste behavior (it needs some work with offsets, source - destination match etc) and currently finishing item ghost code, The script will go live for testing (few days,maybe sooner since I'm coding 24-7)

I agree with everything and can't wait to try!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
1. Draw AS - Click drag or Ctrl/Shift + drag?
Personally I like more click n drag.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:32 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
I agree with everything and can't wait to try!



Personally I like more click n drag.
me too! without having actually tested because an existing bug some days ago in OSX. I would say click without modifier for making the selection. Unless it will conflict with selecting Items or ai or drawing new points)

Don't forget the move! drag an Area selection should move ! Sorry to repeat this . I don.t know how it is working now : (
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:35 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post

1. Ctrl + C makes copy buffer with all the stuff that is under AS
2. Ctrl + V activates "Paste mode" where item ghosts now appear following mouse cursor
3. Mouse click to make paste at cursor position (which can be in snap or free mode depending if snap is activate)
Consider Ctrl X to move too or what i told before. Depends on manny things for you to make a decision what is best! Good luck!

Also: Notice that in OSX the natural modifier for this actions is CMD and not Ctrl like in windows. So CMD + C , CMD + X, CMD + V is expected
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:02 PM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Just for testing stuff around while key intercept script is still being developed:
1. Draw AS - Click drag or Ctrl/Shift + drag?
Hey AS Lord! You are doing wonders here my friend.

Alright, so regarding the click drag: does this mean right click drag or left click drag?
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:57 PM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
AS lord is here!!!

OK

Regarding actually draw the selection should we use modifiers?

ATM single click drag mouse modifiers (item,track,arrange) needs to be adjusted (to do nothing).

Just for testing stuff around while key intercept script is still being developed:
1. Draw AS - Click drag or Ctrl/Shift + drag?
2. Copy - Ctrl + c
3. Paste - Ctrl + v
4. Delete - Del
5. ESC - removes all AS
6 1-9 - activates single AS from multiple ones
10. Mouse zones L-C-R on mouse drag Move, resize AS
11. Mouse zones on ALT drag stretches items/envelopes in the AS
Pretty cool. Those shortcuts are in a config at the top of the main script ? Or do you capture the cut/copy/paste/delete commands too ?


Quote:
Now I would like to introduce "new" concept of copy paste:

Because we have item ghost images to actually see where the paste will land they need to be showed first so:
1. Ctrl + C makes copy buffer with all the stuff that is under AS
2. Ctrl + V activates "Paste mode" where item ghosts now appear following mouse cursor
3. Mouse click to make paste at cursor position (which can be in snap or free mode depending if snap is activate)

I like this behavior very much (anyway my life is now ruined as far as reaper goes this this AS stuff is sooooooooooo awesome)

If we can agree with some of this points so I can implement them ASAP and as soon I finish paste behavior (it needs some work with offsets, source - destination match etc) and currently finishing item ghost code, The script will go live for testing (few days,maybe sooner since I'm coding 24-7)
Interesting.

Here's a crazy idea for ghost cut/copying and then pasting.
I assume the mouse cursor attaches to the left side of the ghost. What if you could cycle that location with two actions and/or a mousewheel combo.

Cycle what ?
  • Front
  • Snap offsets of enclosed items if inside area selection(left to right)
  • Back

For that reason it might be a good idea to drag the edit cursor along so I can have video scrubbing along.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:11 AM   #437
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Quote:
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Consider Ctrl X to move too
Maybe click n drag also to move x.y?

My thought, start the AS script, click n drag in empty area creates a selection,
when the mouse is over the selection it moves the selection,when the mouse is over the edges (left,right,up,down) click n drag extends the selection.
And e.g alt+drag to copy the selection.

We could leave ctrl click or shift click for others actions,similar to the gifs i ve posted above. Eg. Shift click extends the selection fast and ctrl click deselect parts or select specific parts.
Or for ctrl click n drag to extend the edges without snapping to grid.

Of course the best would be if we could choose modifiers for the parameters to our taste

Last edited by Vagelis; 05-22-2019 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:13 AM   #438
Sexan
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ATM those shortcuts will be at the top of the script so you can modify them until I finish the setup script. Setup script will allow to choose shortcuts by user

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Here's a crazy idea for ghost cut/copying and then pasting.
I assume the mouse cursor attaches to the left side of the ghost. What if you could cycle that location with two actions and/or a mousewheel combo.
Now regarding the mouse wheel...
What if I told you that I use it for making paste copies?

You are in paste mode and now:
By default is single copy and you mouse wheel up now you have 2 copies, 3 copies, 5 copies, you change the number of copies when you mouse wheel up/down.

Scenario:
You want a snare part to be duplicated x times so
you ctrl + d until you have copies you want.
But now you mouse wheel up until you see number of copies you need and mouse click to paste them in 1 go

How do you guys feel about that?

Last edited by Sexan; 05-22-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:18 AM   #439
Vagelis
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YAYYY Mousewheel , i like!!
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:18 AM   #440
deeb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Maybe click n drag also to move x.y?
y e p
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