Old 05-23-2019, 12:23 PM   #481
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Hahah nice that you have fun.
I like a lot how it works, i just have a question.

E.g if the source track first envelope is x parameter and the destination track first envelope is y parameter(each track has only the first envelope open), can the x parameter be pasted to y? (with the items)
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:35 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
Will this work with envelopes that are not displayed in their own lanes and/or are hidden?

Dont know is there api for that (envelopes shown in media track). My script does not detect envelopes in this mode. Anyone have info about it (API)?

Second one I'm not sure about implementing that. Seems very error prone.

If its not selected then it cannot be copied or manipulated

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Old 05-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Hahah nice that you have fun.
I like a lot how it works, i just have a question.

E.g if the source track first envelope is x parameter and the destination track first envelope is y parameter(each track has only the first envelope open), can the x parameter be pasted to y? (with the items)
Well it can but that would be really complicated. for VST sure but for standard envelopes don't know why would anyone do that:

Copy volume to pan, pan to volume etc?

I can make an override with shortcut so it would allow such things (hold ALT or whatever). But that will be the last thing I will do. Now the core behavior needs to be top notch as possible
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:45 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
Copy volume to pan, pan to volume etc?
One example use case for pasting non-matching envelopes would be if you wanted to paste e.g. a filter cutoff envelope to some other filter's cutoff envelope.

With envelopes only (if you only have one lane selected) maybe you should be able to paste the contents anywhere.

With envelopes selected along items, I can't think of a realistic use case for non-matching paste that the script should try to "figure out".
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:55 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by Sju View Post
One example use case for pasting non-matching envelopes would be if you wanted to paste e.g. a filter cutoff envelope to some other filter's cutoff envelope.

With envelopes only (if you only have one lane selected) maybe you should be able to paste the contents anywhere.

And people please let not jump 500 steps forward when the basic things are not yet working.


With envelopes selected along items, I can't think of a realistic use case for non-matching paste that the script should try to "figure out".
I need some examples how its done how other daws do it etc. Its easy to say that but from implementation side it can messup everything. There needs.to be some criteria when should that be possible otherwise it will copy anything anywhere and whole area selection copy paste will go to mess. So GIFs Youtube,twitch,pdf,graphics, anything so I can see what when and how
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:21 PM   #486
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I think you misquoted me there a bit

Unfortunately I don't have experience of AS in other DAWs. Can you specify what exactly do you want examples from? Pasting a selection from a single envelope lane to another, unrelated lane?

I think that should work just like that, like you can already move an automation item from one lane to another, or copy/paste points from one lane to another.

If we're talking about pasting those points/AI along with an item, OR pasting from multiple lanes to other, unrelated lines... then I can't really think of a use case there. But from single lane to another, even unrelated, sure.
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:26 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Sju View Post
I think you misquoted me there a bit

Unfortunately I don't have experience of AS in other DAWs. Can you specify what exactly do you want examples from? Pasting a selection from a single envelope lane to another, unrelated lane?

I think that should work just like that, like you can already move an automation item from one lane to another, or copy/paste points from one lane to another.

If we're talking about pasting those points/AI along with an item, OR pasting from multiple lanes to other, unrelated lines... then I can't really think of a use case there. But from single lane to another, even unrelated, sure.
I'm sorry if I did, did not meant to... if we are talking about single lanes that is easy and possible, but regarding multiple lanes and multiple track and more combination its extremely complicated.

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Old 05-24-2019, 12:12 AM   #488
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Edit..

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Old 05-24-2019, 01:26 AM   #489
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What about if paste and match x to x normaly and if there's x to y just match the same lane number? e.g x second lane so match it to second lane of y, else if there isn't a second lane for y don't paste or create , just an idea when pasting with items.

Else IMO only for envelopes the x should be pasted to any y destination or lane.

Some ideas from more people would be nice.

Keeping it simple and efficient would be nice for the basics.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:44 AM   #490
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Obviously if there is just 1 lane on source it is easy to transfer that to any destionation. What if there is more?Where should they go?

Or we will lock it to 1 and call it a day?

As long ONLY ENVELOPES are selected and there is ONLY 1 AS, this is easy to do.
Anything other than this (TRACK AND ENVELOPES SELECTED) makes complications, EXTREME ones!

Code:
 -- SOURCE
VOLUME
PAN
Code:
-- DESTINATION

PAN
WIDTH
TRIM
MUTE
This is possible to paste in one go with track offset so the paste can land on:
1. PAN,WIDTH
2. WiDTH,TRIM
3 TRIM MUTE

SO again, if ONLY envelopes are selected and there is ONLY 1 AS or multiple ones that are ONLY on envelopes, ONLY active one will be pasted:

1. AS no.1 on VOLUME,PAN
2. AS no.2 on WIDTH,TRIM
3. AS no.3 on VOLUME
4. AS no.4 on XY

If you activate 1. you will paste VOL,PAN, 2. WIDTH,TRIM 3. VOLUME etc etc

Any one of this (ACTIVE ONE) can be pasted on any envelope.

Last edited by Sexan; 05-24-2019 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 02:19 AM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post

Code:
 -- SOURCE
VOLUME
PAN
Code:
-- DESTINATION

PAN
WIDTH
TRIM
MUTE
Maybe to keep it more simple like pasting only pan which exists as a source-destination,else if the sources don't match to any of the destinations then paste according to the number of lanes.
If source has 2 lanes and destination 1 search to match the same , if not then paste 1st destination at 1st lane.

Or another thought is to create envelopes from source to destination if they not exist.

Dunno it's a bit confusing since we can't test it to find the best way.I 'm sure you'll figure it out.

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Old 05-24-2019, 02:34 AM   #492
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This is why I need to see how other DAW deal with this scenarios...

I cant limit number of lanes, number of this and that because in 95% of the times users will have all the envelopes opened,some of them opened etc, and there can be many different scenarios what is opened and what is not.

Best thing would be to limit things only on 1 envelope source...

You have cubendo, how it deals with copying 2 different envelopes to others that do not match (can I get the GIF)?
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Old 05-24-2019, 02:39 AM   #493
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Ye, i 've also downloaded a trial version of Studio one.Right now i have to go out but i'll be back in an hour or so to make some tests and post gifs)
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:09 AM   #494
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You can test it because its not implemented yet, because its complicated thats why I want to see what and how so I can code something.
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:17 AM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
This is why I need to see how other DAW deal with this scenarios...

I cant limit number of lanes, number of this and that because in 95% of the times users will have all the envelopes opened,some of them opened etc, and there can be many different scenarios what is opened and what is not.

Best thing would be to limit things only on 1 envelope source...

You have cubendo, how it deals with copying 2 different envelopes to others that do not match (can I get the GIF)?
I think: if they are not visible they don't count for matching (unless optional?).. if item and envelope source and target envelopes match in terms of type and visibility then copy. What you see is what you get,.No?

edit: unless what you select can contain the invisible envelopes too, .. in which case the target must match exactly this. Could be optional "include invisible envelopes"? <- invisible envelope in first and last positions are tricky unless include all envelopes invisible on this extreme positions. You get what i mean?

Last edited by deeb; 05-24-2019 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:06 AM   #496
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Implemented Envelope ghost fully, so now we can understand things little better


So this is paste INTERNAL criteria, copy only if exist. (I have some goddamn cheap mouse I've bought so I can work on notebook while I'm away, and this shit has very sensitive right click )
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:16 AM   #497
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Here's how old Cubase deals with.

https://gifyu.com/image/95EP

And on second example:

https://gifyu.com/image/95EX

Here when i change the destination to volume in order to match with the source,again it doesn't paste it.For Reaper maybe it would have been better if it would paste only the volume to destination since they match with the source,no matter of the number of lanes,OR paste that one that matches and then create a second envelope to the destination similar to the second envelope from the source.


Added also only for envelopes:

https://gifyu.com/image/95kB
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:21 AM   #498
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ok so it pastes only if number of lane matches and source env do not exist on destination or the destination has more lanes than source and still non match? if thats the case then it will be easy
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:38 AM   #499
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It paste according to the number of lanes that match the parameter or not to the destination

In your last gif only with envelopes, its nice how you did it to deal with multiple selection if same destination exist.If it doesn't just paste according to the number of lanes that match their number from source to the dest..

Else if one lane is selected paste anywhere.

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Old 05-24-2019, 04:52 AM   #500
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OK this will be easy, thank you!
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:56 AM   #501
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In studio one:

Here it paste again the first lane because there's only the first lane open to the destination.I would prefer if a source match to the destination to paste only that source,no matter of the number of lanes.If nothing matches do it like the gif.

https://gifyu.com/image/95qN

And another example with a single lane no matter if they match.

https://gifyu.com/image/95qm
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:59 AM   #502
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second one is more logical then first one (to me at least) if it were the first gif, there is the source and it matches the destination (pan) so I would expect to copy the pan. Maybe they got one more criteria if source and destination is default value ignore it
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:06 AM   #503
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And the biggest difference between old cubase and newest studio one is that in cubase if the number of lanes at the source are more than the ones of the destination, it doesn't do anything no paste(only if the number of lanes of the destination are more or equal to the lanes of the source).While in studio one this doesn't matter and at least it paste the number of lanes of the source that fit to the lanes of the destination.(like shown in the gif)

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Old 05-24-2019, 05:14 AM   #504
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I think I have my own solution and new behavior for this problem... let see how it will behave.Stay tuned...
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:36 AM   #505
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Multi paste:

https://gifyu.com/image/95QV

https://gifyu.com/image/95QA
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:53 AM   #506
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All that seems random to me....

In my head its like:

Developers in the room coding....
Dave - "Hey Steve are you working on pasting envelopes?"

Steve - "Yeah Dave"

Dave - "What did you do?"

Steve -"I just make shit pasting around, If you click it will paste it somewhere"

Deve "But where?"

Steve - "Who gives a shit its pasted... job done"

Anyway what do you guys think about this?


It will be Source - Destination relationship if you are over the parent of the destination, but if you are on actual envelopes it will override it and if there is multiple envelopes in the source they will offset one below other. it can be the same for source track

Last edited by Sexan; 05-24-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:25 AM   #507
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My humble opinion. Single selection of envelope lane could be pasted anywhere.Multi selection of lanes without item the same,if the lane number of source that we want to copy is less or equal to the number of destination lanes that we want to paste.
If the number of source lanes is more than the number of destination, paste the number of destination lanes from the source whatever the parameter is.

Thats how S1 deals with them.

Maybe we could have two options? One that paste only if their parameter match so it locks and paste only the ones are matched.Second paste anything anywhere with out match only to the number of lanes as S1 does..

Sum. paste according to the number of lanes without parameter match as S1,or hold a key to search for parameter match,paste the one that matches only.Release the key do the first.

Anyway i think i tried my best..I hope i could help, other people might have better ideas.

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Old 05-24-2019, 07:21 AM   #508
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Quote:
Anyway what do you guys think about this?
I can't see any good reason for pasting envelope curve to another envelope (except for the same parameters on another track or the same paramters)

And you'll probably put yourself in trouble to face paste on toggle style parameters (bypass, mute, plug-in on/off,...) from another type of parameter

And then, the scaling. if you show precomp parameter of the reacomp, draw an envelope and then copy and paste it on the ATTACK Parameter, what will happened?

the both fader will move the same way but the value (in ms) will be complelty different (exact double in this particular case)

But, stop just a moment and think about it

Tell me ONE real life situation where you want to have the EXACT SAME envelope for pre-comp and attack maintaining exact double value?

If I copy an envelope of a parameter in ms and paste on another parameter in ms I want both parameters move by same amount (same amount of ms, not the same ratio from parameter start & end)

But it's nearly impossible to get that kind of result, because REAPER should know the scale of both parameters and do the math to be exact in any situation...

In short, copy paste envelope points from one parameter to another, is just beautiful on a licecap but is almost useless in use. (except for similar settings from one track to another where having exactly the same scale)
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:28 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
I can't see any good reason for pasting envelope curve to another envelope (except for the same parameters on another track or the same paramters)

And you'll probably put yourself in trouble to face paste on toggle style parameters (bypass, mute, plug-in on/off,...) from another type of parameter

And then, the scaling. if you show precomp parameter of the reacomp, draw an envelope and then copy and paste it on the ATTACK Parameter, what will happened?

the both fader will move the same way but the value (in ms) will be complelty different (exact double in this particular case)

But, stop just a moment and think about it

Tell me ONE real life situation where you want to have the EXACT SAME envelope for pre-comp and attack maintaining exact double value?

If I copy an envelope of a parameter in ms and paste on another parameter in ms I want both parameters move by same amount (same amount of ms, not the same ratio from parameter start & end)

But it's nearly impossible to get that kind of result, because REAPER should know the scale of both parameters and do the math to be exact in any situation...

In short, copy paste envelope points from one parameter to another, is just beautiful on a licecap but is almost useless in use. (except for similar settings from one track to another where having exactly the same scale)
I pretty much agree with you,The lice is just to see the source - destination relationship. I guess users want it for like you say to have simillar settings.

In my use case scenario and workflow,mixing,editing I am usign it exactly to copy volume,pan etc. from track x to track y or multiple ones

Last edited by Sexan; 05-24-2019 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:34 AM   #510
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I can't see any good reason for pasting envelope curve to another envelope (except for the same parameters on another track or the same paramters)
Sorry but i don't agree, maybe you don't need to paste compression parameters with a filter or whatever,but imagine to be able to copy e.g a sweeped filter curve,to an amp lane and a pitch lane. Or you want that pitch tremolo,lfo,sequencer to be the same with your amp or pan envelope.Or the wet- bypass parameters and more.. With this way i was working for years in Cubase and had lot of possibilities.
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:36 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
Tell me ONE real life situation where you want to have the EXACT SAME envelope for pre-comp and attack maintaining exact double value?
How about if I want to, for example, duplicate a filter cutoff envelope into another filter plugin's cutoff envelope, to get generally the same contour as a starting point. Sure, there parameter scales might not match exactly, but it can still be useful to be able to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
It will be Source - Destination relationship if you are over the parent of the destination, but if you are on actual envelopes it will override it and if there is multiple envelopes in the source they will offset one below other. it can be the same for source track
That's actually pretty elegant! How does that logic work when both items and envelopes have been selected?
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Old 05-24-2019, 07:36 AM   #512
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Sorry but i don't agree, maybe you don't need to paste compression parameters with a filter or whatever,but imagine to be able to copy e.g a sweeped filter curve,to an amp lane and a pitch lane. Or you want that pitch tremolo,lfo,sequencer to be the same with your amp or pan envelope.Or the wet- bypass parameters and more.. With this way i was working for years in Cubase and had lot of possibilities.
I am aware of that, thats why Im trying to make this work.

So is my solution on good path? You can paste exactly what you want to anywhere, we will need to probably mod it for some criteria.

Can someone give me some REAL scenario (GIF) and usecase so I can try to simulate it. Complicated one not single lane so multi envelopes and stuff

Last edited by Sexan; 05-24-2019 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:05 AM   #513
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Quote:
but imagine to be able to copy e.g a sweeped filter curve,to an amp lane and a pitch lane

bah, you're doing this -> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CW...A4B9S53JHHlx6N


With the big advantage of pool copies AND item properties in which you can adapt baseline and amplitude to the paramater you pasted on
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Old 05-24-2019, 08:22 AM   #514
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Sure but why not also to be able to do that with AS too?Without opening AI and also could paste and modify individually.With this way and the zones later will be very fast to split copy duplicate and transform the envelopes like in AI.

Also if the AI's could be copy-pasted too,(alone or with the item) it's kinda faster than drag and copy the AI from lane to lane.

Heres an example in cubase:

https://gifyu.com/image/95ih

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Old 05-24-2019, 09:37 AM   #515
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SO... if my calculations are correct (and most of the time are not) this is what you do:


?

When you are on parent track and you do not see ghosts that means there is no source match there, and you can override it if you go down to envelope lanes and schwa away with paste

These are some random envelopes from VST parameters. (btw that last thing you did not supposed to see is a bug I'm fixing )

And grand finale

Last edited by Sexan; 05-24-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:55 AM   #516
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Dont know is there api for that (envelopes shown in media track). My script does not detect envelopes in this mode. Anyone have info about it (API)?

Second one I'm not sure about implementing that. Seems very error prone.

If its not selected then it cannot be copied or manipulated
Well that's a real bummer. I've always wanted a way to quickly cut and paste multiple track envelopes at once, even if they didn't have media items on top of them. This seemed like it would finally do the trick, but if it only works with envelopes that are visible and shown in separate lanes it won't be much use to me. I use a ton of track automation, but I usually keep most of the envelopes hidden and I never show them in separate lanes.

I was hoping this script would let me swipe over an area of track and copy all the automation data within that section, even if the envelopes are hidden. This is how it works in Pro Tools (Am I allowed to mention Pro Tools here?) and it makes editing big swaths of automation data really fast.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:01 AM   #517
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WEll lucky for you I am magician, and magicians do magic things... just kidding

I can get envelope data if its written no matter if the track is visible or not, I've just tested it.

But not sure about envelopes in media lane, still trying to figure it out, looking at API.

There will need to be some indication when track has envelopes that are hidden so users will know, like each ghost will be 50,50 on the track, one half item other half envelopes (mini envelopes)

EDIT: it looks like getting both is possible VIA iterating thru its envelopes. Yeeey both is possible

Now question:

What does PT do by default? Does it select all track info or just item? You need modifier for hidden automation?

EDIT2: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDDDD its implemented

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Old 05-24-2019, 11:55 AM   #518
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Yay, i like how it works : )

What happens if you select 2 envelope lanes and then paste it to a track with one lane ? Does it paste the one at the top ?
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:58 AM   #519
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Im working on that scenario. Should it paste only first/top one? By my code it should since it offsets next one bellow, is that desired?
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Old 05-24-2019, 12:27 PM   #520
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My opinion is yes.Old cubase wouldn't paste,but the newest S1 it will...which i find more efficient.

What if we had two modes? normal paste(like the one we're talking about) and the one that paste only the matched parameters?(maybe changing modes by cicking the mousewheel or something)

Just an idea example: if we select 4 envelope lanes from the source, to paste them to a track with 3 envelope lanes, and e.g 2 parameters match (amp to amp,pan to pan),paste only those they match.So the two of them (amp,pan) - Else in normal mode it would paste the top 3 envelope lanes.

The second mode would be useful for Reaper because we still can't rearrange the order of the envelope lanes like in other Daws.

Last edited by Vagelis; 05-24-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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