Old 01-09-2018, 02:24 AM   #1
The Bunker
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Default VST3 recognition

So I have Reaper on two of my computers. One of them a desktop PC that is a few years old, and the other a newer, more powerful laptop. Both windows 10 machines. Both 64bit. In both of them I have my VST folder structure exactly the same. I have a folder in the C drive called VST and inside that I have 4 sub folders. They are named:

- VST 32
- VST 64
- VST3 32
- VST3 64

I manually put all my VST3s in the 2 VST3 folders after installing them because I like all my plugins to be in the same place.

Problem is on my laptop Reaper "sees" the VST3 plugins fine when I do this and tell it to "look" in the 'C:\VST' location for plugins and it shows the subfolders where the plugins are as intended.

But for some reason on my PC reaper does not see the VST3 plugins. Both computers are running the latest Reaper version as of the date of this post.

Any idea why this might be?

EDIT: In fact I just tried the VST3 plugins in their default location in the Common Files folder as well and Reaper still didn't scan them there.

Last edited by The Bunker; 01-09-2018 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:16 AM   #2
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You did CLEAR/rescan, didnt you? Obvious, I know, but amazing how often it gets overlooked.
P.S. I would leave VST3s in the common files directrories, since that is where Steinberg generally force them to go, but your plugin installers may object to you manually shifting stuff around
If the clear rescan doesnt work you night want to try uninstalling those VST3s completely and doing a new install following the plugin dev`s recommended folders.
Good luck
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:14 AM   #3
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VST3 should only ever work from the default folder. It's part of the sdk

The only way to move them is to have a link to them in the original folder (so not much point)

Check carefully your laptop again.....either you have the VST3 in the correct folder or you only see VST2 versions of the plugs.

As to why they are now not scanning in the common files folder, I guess you got something wrong with your paths where you've been messing around or just need to clear/rescan as Ivan says.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645 View Post
VST3 should only ever work from the default folder.
What is this default folder ?
Is this commonly defined for all VST3s or might each have it's own ?

(I do have working VST3s without caring about that issue, yet.)

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Old 01-09-2018, 07:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645 View Post
VST3 should only ever work from the default folder. It's part of the sdk
It's a recommended convention but there is no code level enforcement of that.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
What is this default folder ?
C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 and C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3 - You don't have to add it manually though, click auto-detect in VST prefs.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 and C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3 - You don't have to add it manually though, click auto-detect in VST prefs.
In Reaper (by default) I only have "C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3" and this in fact holds some *.vst3 files.

But "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3" is not seen in Reaper nor does it exist on my disk.

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Old 01-09-2018, 04:16 PM   #8
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BTW.: it's great that we now have a default folder. hat would allow ReaPack to provide VST3s.

IMHO it would be very desirable to provide MidiToReaControlPathg via ReaPack. Would it need to be a VST3 to take advantage of the default path ?

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Old 01-09-2018, 04:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
In Reaper (by default) I only have "C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3" and this in fact holds some *.vst3 files.

But "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3" is not seen in Reaper nor does it exist on my disk.

-Michael
It probably won't unless you have 32 bit VST3 VST installed. I didn't expect it to be on my system but it is. I didn't think there would be such a thing (32 bit VST3) but it's there. I can always confirm why but I'm pretty sure that is the answer.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:35 PM   #10
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Ok so I have already tried re-scanning the folders.

And I am 100% certain that on my laptop I have moved the VST3s to my preferred location and they still work fine. How do I know this? Because for those plugins I have not even bothered installing the VST2 versions only the VST3 versions.

Also on my laptop the VST3 folders that I have designated actually show up in the FX browser on the left hand side, so I can actually see the VST3 folders and their subfolders and the VST3 plugins. And it all works. So it is incorrect to say that VST3 ONLY works in the default location.

But for some reason NONE of this works like this on my other computer. This is very puzzling.

Can anyone test to see if they are having a similar issue?

Thanks for the replies btw.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:24 AM   #11
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The key here is probably in your phrase "I have moved the default locations".

If you used the manufacturer's .exe file to install the plugins & it defaulted to somewhere you didn't want the plugins to be installed, you cant just move them. In many cases vst3s are hard coded to expect the .dll file to be in a particular location. So in effect (not in many cases but definitely in some) moving the .dll by hand means th plugin itself can no longer "see" it which in turn means reaper cant.
Have you tried either uninstalling and reinstalling the plugs concerned and choosing where you want the .dll instaled during the install procedure or alternatively accepting what the manufacturer installer insists on and simply adding that path tou you plugin path list, then clear/rescan?
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
The key here is probably in your phrase "I have moved the default locations".

If you used the manufacturer's .exe file to install the plugins & it defaulted to somewhere you didn't want the plugins to be installed, you cant just move them. In many cases vst3s are hard coded to expect the .dll file to be in a particular location. So in effect (not in many cases but definitely in some) moving the .dll by hand means th plugin itself can no longer "see" it which in turn means reaper cant.
Have you tried either uninstalling and reinstalling the plugs concerned and choosing where you want the .dll instaled during the install procedure or alternatively accepting what the manufacturer installer insists on and simply adding that path tou you plugin path list, then clear/rescan?
Thanks for the input, but this is completely false.

Installers as far as I know DO NOT allow you to choose your VST3 location like they do with VST2s. They only ever install to the default location. I then MANUALLY move the files to a new location and tell Reaper to scan the new location.

It is simply not true that VST3s have to be in the default location in order to work. I know this because I am literally using these VST3s everyday in this manner on one of my computers while I am unable to do the same on another.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by The Bunker View Post
Thanks for the input, but this is completely false.

Installers as far as I know DO NOT allow you to choose your VST3 location like they do with VST2s. They only ever install to the default location. I then MANUALLY move the files to a new location and tell Reaper to scan the new location.

It is simply not true that VST3s have to be in the default location in order to work. I know this because I am literally using these VST3s everyday in this manner on one of my computers while I am unable to do the same on another.

Hope that makes sense.
Yes of course it does but the crucial part of this is that as well as redirecting reaper to see the VST3 in its new location, the VST3 needs to be able to deal with any change in the location of its own anciliary files, which is obviously another governing factor.
So - couple that with the strong likelihood that, just because you told Reaper where to look, the VST3 itself may well be hard coded to only work from the "official" location and only look for its anciliary files where the developer said it would find them..
The more I think about this the more it seems to me like moving VST3 plugs from where the installer specifically wants them to be is fraught with risks considering the small convenience of a shorter plugin location list...
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Yes of course it does but the crucial part of this is that as well as redirecting reaper to see the VST3 in its new location, the VST3 needs to be able to deal with any change in the location of its own anciliary files, which is obviously another governing factor.
So - couple that with the strong likelihood that, just because you told Reaper where to look, the VST3 itself may well be hard coded to only work from the "official" location and only look for its anciliary files where the developer said it would find them..
The more I think about this the more it seems to me like moving VST3 plugs from where the installer specifically wants them to be is fraught with risks considering the small convenience of a shorter plugin location list...
Yes but this is not happening because the ancillary files you mention have not been moved... and anyway as I mentioned in my other comment it clearly works in my experience and my current install of reaper on my desktop computer doesn't even see VST3s in their DEFAULT location so your off the mark with your suggestions...

Anyone else know why one of my copies of Reaper doesn't see VST3s AT ALL regardless of location while another ones works fine?
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:04 AM   #15
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As an experiment isn't it worth trying a regular install of a test VST3 item to the default VST3 directory on the laptop?
You can spend a lot of time trying to track down why something is not working - a pragmatic approach is less stressful.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:23 AM   #16
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As an experiment isn't it worth trying a regular install of a test VST3 item to the default VST3 directory on the laptop?
You can spend a lot of time trying to track down why something is not working - a pragmatic approach is less stressful.
Hey, really appreciate you trying to help out but I feel like I am either not explaining myself properly or you are not reading my posts correctly. As mentioned already, the laptop recognises the VST3 wherever I put them. It's fine. It works correctly with no problem.

HOWEVER it is the computer which does NOT SEE VST3 plugins AT ALL no matter where i put them and yes that includes in the default folder and yes DID install them in the default (because that is THE ONLY PLACE you CAN install them and REAPER still doesn't see them. It simply WILL NOT recognise VST3.

Forget everything I said about moving files. I can see that is causing some confusion... my problem is one of my computers (the laptop) is seeing VST3 plugins while my other computer (the desktop PC) is not seeing VST3 plugins.

Anyone know why this might be? Or how I could begin to troubleshoot this?
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:26 AM   #17
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Assuming that your test vst3 installs in either C:/Program files/common files/vst3 for 64 bit or C:/prograsm files (x86)/Common Files/VST3 for 32 bit, there really isn`t any logical reason why a "clear/rescan" of Reaper`s plugin window once you have added the relevant path would not find the VST3.

The only other straw I can think to grasp at is maybe somehow or other your VST3 folder is hidden in the AddFX window. Just to be 100% sure, have you clicked on All Plugins to mae sure they arent showing up there?
This really is odd.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:14 PM   #18
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Ah sorry - I thought I had read it with care. Doh.
Right, annoying problem there..
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:47 PM   #19
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Ahh ok turns out it was my own oversight after all...

I had been pressing the rescan button all along which for some reason works when you install new VST2 plugins but doesn't with VST3 plugins. Then I actually pressed the clear cache and rescan as per the advice in this thread and it actually works! I assumed those two would work similarly but apparently not.

Oh well, if someone else has a similar problem now they will know why.

Thanks for all the input everyone.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:32 PM   #20
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(grin) and we all know what ASS-uming does...

Glad you got it in the end.

FWIW the reason for clearing the cache is that Reaper automatically marks failing plugins as "unavailable" internally, so no amount of re-scanning will find them unless you force a cache clearance first.
There are other elements involved but this is the key one.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:59 AM   #21
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(grin) and we all know what ASS-uming does...

Glad you got it in the end.

FWIW the reason for clearing the cache is that Reaper automatically marks failing plugins as "unavailable" internally, so no amount of re-scanning will find them unless you force a cache clearance first.
There are other elements involved but this is the key one.
Ah ok, this is great to know and makes sense. Won't be making that mistake again
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