Old 01-12-2018, 09:01 AM   #1
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Default Two sources into one studio monitor set (solutions?)

Hey all.

I have my Event ASP8 studio monitors fed from my Scarlett 18i20 interface. I also have a hardware synth setup and I'm looking for a transparent solution to switch between my soundcard source and my hardware synth setup going to my monitors. Two sources feeding into one monitor output basically.

I'm thinking ideally a passive transparent selector switch would be ideal but everything I seem to find is for one source to multiple outs for different monitors.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:06 AM   #2
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http://mackie.com/products/new-big-knob-series
The passive one. Sells for 77€ here in Germany.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:34 AM   #3
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Do you not have any spare inputs on the Scarlett?

That's how I connect my guitar amp sim to my monitors.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:57 AM   #4
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Do you not have any spare inputs on the Scarlett?

That's how I connect my guitar amp sim to my monitors.

Hey Stews

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 which has enough inputs but I don't want to introduce latency running my hardware into my card and back out to my monitors.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sisaso View Post
http://mackie.com/products/new-big-knob-series
The passive one. Sells for 77€ here in Germany.

Awesome.

That's exactly what I want. Thanks sisaso
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:02 PM   #6
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Hey Stews

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 which has enough inputs but I don't want to introduce latency running my hardware into my card and back out to my monitors.
The latency is only about 1 or 2 milliseconds, I had that worry before hand but researched it and contacted them. It is absolutely unnoticeable, it's the equivalent of being 1 or 2 feet further from the speakers.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:31 PM   #7
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Agreed, just set up the direct routing in mixcontrol and you'll not notice any latency. No need to involve DAW latency at all.

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Old 01-12-2018, 04:35 PM   #8
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Perfect. Thanks for the help. I'll just set my last two physical inputs to direct out. One or two ms isn't going to bother me.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:42 PM   #9
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Awesome.

That's exactly what I want. Thanks sisaso
Yep, I use the Presonus monitor station which is essentially the same. Not to mention I want my volume knob as physical anyway.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:57 PM   #10
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Yep, I use the Presonus monitor station which is essentially the same. Not to mention I want my volume knob as physical anyway.
Hey Karbo

On second thought I am going to use the Mackie. I really like the idea of having a master volume knob within arms reach with a mute in case something goes awry.

On a side note does anyone know of a hardware brickwall limiter to go between my source controller and my monitors? I've been meaning to look into that for a while. When I'm using Reaper it's not an issue as I've had the master clip and auto mute immediately. When I'm playing physical instruments like my synths I worry about a rogue spike which could permanently damage my hearing. I can't seem to find anything which seems odd considering the risk of hearing damage in case of a feedback loop or audio glitch.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:09 AM   #11
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does anyone know of a hardware brickwall limiter to go between my source controller and my monitors?
You've got a lot of choice. You may be looking at the kind of kit used in installations. What's your budget?
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:43 AM   #12
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Supposedly related Problem.

I'd like to easily switch between my Headphones (connected directly to the internal sound card of the computer) and the monito loudspeaker set (connected to the internal sound card of the computer via optical digital output. Moreover I'd also like to be able to set the volume in a similar action. All this not only for Reaper, but for general usage, as well.

I'd not like to buy any (audio-) hardware (which would be a second NI Audio6, if I'd do so), as it perfectly works for me, only the workflow is not nice, especially as close to all non-Reaper work on that machine is don in Linux residing in a full-screen virtual box, that needs to be left to get to the windows controls to set audio volume and destination.

Any thought about this issue ?

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:18 AM   #13
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I realise you don't want any more hardware, but a monitor controller like the Presonus one Karbo mentioned is worth every penny and more if workflow is important. It should take the SPDIF signal from your soundcard, and route it to headphones, speakers or whatever at the press of a button. If it's like mine, a BMC-2, it will allow you to predefine reference volumes for these independently.

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:40 AM   #14
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You've got a lot of choice. You may be looking at the kind of kit used in installations. What's your budget?
I really don't want to spend more than $500.00 if I don't have to. It's hard to put a price tag on permanent hearing damage though...
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:49 PM   #15
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I really don't want to spend more than $500.00 if I don't have to. It's hard to put a price tag on permanent hearing damage though...
Any decent high ratio (>10) compressor / limiter will do the job fairly well - you're aiming for it not to be doing anything, of course :-) So you might find something cheap and cheerful perfectly acceptable in your monitor path.

(Although you might have to do a bit of dicking about with levels to get it to stay out until you want it.)

Alternatively, search for "SPL Limiter". Such as is used in installation work. They tend to have few knobs (like no knobs, set and forget screw presets) and mahoosive ratios - like 100:1 and fast attacks. The Drawmer SL22 will be out of that price range, but I don't think you really need to spend that much.


P.S. Remember to put the device where you can see it - you really don't want it to be doing anything, so you need to see that it isn't flashing its lights at you.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:08 PM   #16
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BMC-2,
The BMC-2 seems perfect for the task in question, but as I cant find a store, it seems not to be in the market, any more.

"Big Knob" does not feature SPDIF,

For some $250 I'd get an Audio 6 that hooks to ASIO and Direct Sound with 24 Bits, and features separate volume knobs for line out to the monitors and to the built-in Headphone amp. Moreover it would be a backup device for the one I use for live playing. So If hardware at all, then this one. But in fact, why do it in hardware when just the appropriate software (i.e. on a key combination pop up a window containing the Windows' audio volume and target, even on top of the Virtual Box Full Screen display) should be able to create the same outcome ?

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Old 01-13-2018, 05:00 PM   #17
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Hey Karbo

On second thought I am going to use the Mackie. I really like the idea of having a master volume knob within arms reach with a mute in case something goes awry.

On a side note does anyone know of a hardware brickwall limiter to go between my source controller and my monitors? I've been meaning to look into that for a while. When I'm using Reaper it's not an issue as I've had the master clip and auto mute immediately. When I'm playing physical instruments like my synths I worry about a rogue spike which could permanently damage my hearing. I can't seem to find anything which seems odd considering the risk of hearing damage in case of a feedback loop or audio glitch.
Dbx makes a rack unit for 300 bucks. It is a stereo comp and limiter. Big bang for the buck.
But you will wind up wanting to use it as a plugins in Reaper, and then you will need 2 of them LOL......
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jrk View Post
Any decent high ratio (>10) compressor / limiter will do the job fairly well - you're aiming for it not to be doing anything, of course :-) So you might find something cheap and cheerful perfectly acceptable in your monitor path.

(Although you might have to do a bit of dicking about with levels to get it to stay out until you want it.)

Alternatively, search for "SPL Limiter". Such as is used in installation work. They tend to have few knobs (like no knobs, set and forget screw presets) and mahoosive ratios - like 100:1 and fast attacks. The Drawmer SL22 will be out of that price range, but I don't think you really need to spend that much.


P.S. Remember to put the device where you can see it - you really don't want it to be doing anything, so you need to see that it isn't flashing its lights at you.
Thanks for the info and that Drawmer looks to be what I'm looking for though it's not cheap.

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Dbx makes a rack unit for 300 bucks. It is a stereo comp and limiter. Big bang for the buck.
But you will wind up wanting to use it as a plugins in Reaper, and then you will need 2 of them LOL......
Thanks Jimmy

I'll look into it. Do you know what model?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:48 PM   #19
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The dbxn166xs is a smoking deal. 240 bucks for a stereo limiter

https://dbxpro.com/en/products/166xs

If you wanna step up from that. The 1066 is 430 bucks. Either one is gonna do a great job. Dbx is underrated for there budget comps/limiter.


https://dbxpro.com/en/products/1066
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:11 AM   #20
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"Big Knob" does not feature SPDIF
The Presonus Monitor Station V2 does though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
For some $250 I'd get an Audio 6 that hooks to ASIO and Direct Audio with 24 Bits, But in fact, why do it in hardware when just the appropriate software (i.e. on a key combination pop up a window containing the Windows' audio volume and target, even on top of the Virtual Box Full Screen display) should be able to create the same outcome ?
I asked myself the same question after the BMC2 was recommended to me, but got one anyway, and I wouldn't want to be without it now.

One huge advantage is what Doc Brown said about sudden loud noises when something goes wrong. A software control might be behind another window, might have moved, or could be inaccessible due to a crashed program, driver, operating system or modal popup. And you have to figure this out while the ears and sanity of yourself and everyone else in the room are being massacred by massive SPLs.

The big volume knob is always right in front of you, always in the same place, and always behaves the same way. It becomes instinct to reach over and turn it to zero when this happens.

It's a huge workflow benefit too, especially if you are into calibrated reference volume levels. The audio interface is in the corner of the studio, I can't reach it from my working position. The software volume control is in a program outside of Reaper, so I'd have to go out of the Reaper context to change it, or even check what level it's at. With the monitor controller I can do all this right in front of me with just a glance.

Since it's hardware on the SPDIF out, whether you are using Linux or Windows won't make any difference.

I could go on and on about the advantages. It's one of these gadgets that is the solution to problems you never knew you had really. My apologies to Doc Brown for going a bit off topic!

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Old 01-14-2018, 07:02 AM   #21
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The dbxn166xs is a smoking deal. 240 bucks for a stereo limiter

https://dbxpro.com/en/products/166xs

If you wanna step up from that. The 1066 is 430 bucks. Either one is gonna do a great job. Dbx is underrated for there budget comps/limiter.


https://dbxpro.com/en/products/1066

Thanks again Jimmy. I have some reading to do.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:48 PM   #22
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It's one of these gadgets that is the solution to problems you never knew you had really.
I perfectly see you point, but remember that I am just a hobbyist
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:03 PM   #23
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The Presonus Monitor Station V2 does though.



I asked myself the same question after the BMC2 was recommended to me, but got one anyway, and I wouldn't want to be without it now.

One huge advantage is what Doc Brown said about sudden loud noises when something goes wrong. A software control might be behind another window, might have moved, or could be inaccessible due to a crashed program, driver, operating system or modal popup. And you have to figure this out while the ears and sanity of yourself and everyone else in the room are being massacred by massive SPLs.

The big volume knob is always right in front of you, always in the same place, and always behaves the same way. It becomes instinct to reach over and turn it to zero when this happens.

It's a huge workflow benefit too, especially if you are into calibrated reference volume levels. The audio interface is in the corner of the studio, I can't reach it from my working position. The software volume control is in a program outside of Reaper, so I'd have to go out of the Reaper context to change it, or even check what level it's at. With the monitor controller I can do all this right in front of me with just a glance.

Since it's hardware on the SPDIF out, whether you are using Linux or Windows won't make any difference.

I could go on and on about the advantages. It's one of these gadgets that is the solution to problems you never knew you had really. My apologies to Doc Brown for going a bit off topic!

Cheers,
Jennifer
Wouldn't it be better to move the audio interface next to where you sit than to spend hundreds of pounds on a volume knob?
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:56 PM   #24
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The audio interface is in a rack box along with a couple of other units and has more than 20 cables trailing into and out of it. Wouldn't be convenient to put on the desk, and reaching down all the time to adjust volume is too much hassle :-)

I also like an unobstructed path between my head and the monitors to reduce sound reflection. And keeping the audio interface in a corner keeps the audio cables shorter and stops them trailing across the floor.

There is method in my madness - I'm Scottish, I don't just spend money willy nilly you know :-)

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:11 AM   #25
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The audio interface is in a rack box along with a couple of other units and has more than 20 cables trailing into and out of it. Wouldn't be convenient to put on the desk, and reaching down all the time to adjust volume is too much hassle :-)

I also like an unobstructed path between my head and the monitors to reduce sound reflection. And keeping the audio interface in a corner keeps the audio cables shorter and stops them trailing across the floor.

There is method in my madness - I'm Scottish, I don't just spend money willy nilly you know :-)

Cheers,
Jennifer
Lol I'm also Scottish hence my shock at the extra purchase :P
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:32 AM   #26
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The dbxn166xs is a smoking deal. 240 bucks for a stereo limiter

https://dbxpro.com/en/products/166xs

If you wanna step up from that. The 1066 is 430 bucks. Either one is gonna do a great job. Dbx is underrated for there budget comps/limiter.


https://dbxpro.com/en/products/1066

You should be able to find a 2nd-hand 1066 for less than that -or a Drawmer 241 (or better, 251). You might want to use it as processing, though...

Another shout for the Presonus control station. Get the remote -you’ll not dwell on the cost once you start using it.



>
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:48 AM   #27
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About the hardest clipper your going to find is your DAC. It literally won't get any louder than it can. Make sure that nothing between your DAC and your speakers will clip before the DAC does, and you don't need another limiter. Sight corallary - any stage that won't get as loud at max as the next stage can handle is a hard limiter.

In my mix room, I use a Behringer headphone amp. It allows each of eight outputs to play either of two inputs unless that section is overriden by an "Aux" input. I have two (stereo) sets of speakers and four (stereo) sets of headphones, and can play either of my two (stereo) computers through each. Then I have a stereo pair that drives surface transducers that I can stick on my guitar for "silent" amp feedback and there's still a channel that gets its "Aux" input from the rear-panel output of the main pair channel and feeds the L/R subs...
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:57 AM   #28
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About the hardest clipper your going to find is your DAC. It literally won't get any louder than it can. Make sure that nothing between your DAC and your speakers will clip before the DAC does, and you don't need another limiter. Sight corallary - any stage that won't get as loud at max as the next stage can handle is a hard limiter.

In my mix room, I use a Behringer headphone amp. It allows each of eight outputs to play either of two inputs unless that section is overriden by an "Aux" input. I have two (stereo) sets of speakers and four (stereo) sets of headphones, and can play either of my two (stereo) computers through each. Then I have a stereo pair that drives surface transducers that I can stick on my guitar for "silent" amp feedback and there's still a channel that gets its "Aux" input from the rear-panel output of the main pair channel and feeds the L/R subs...

The DAC won't do anything when I'm using my hardware synths independent of my soundcard which is what I am doing. I was just looking for a go between from my input selector and my monitors.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:33 AM   #29
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The DAC won't do anything when I'm using my hardware synths independent of my soundcard which is what I am doing. I was just looking for a go between from my input selector and my monitors.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the hardware thing by the time I got this far in the thread.

I still think you'd ought to just route those synths through the interface and be done with it. You'll have all of the control you'll ever want via Reaper, and will be ready to record whenever you want without having to repatch cables. If there's actually enough latency to bother you, then there's something wrong with your machine.

I definitely wouldn't want a hardware limiter between my interface and the monitors. If you're actually going that route, probably put the limiter between the synths and the switch/controller, not between it and the monitors.
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