wondering about the differences between guitars...

[Jae.Thomas]

I am interested in getting one of these:

http://www.glguitars.com/instruments...ic-s/index.asp


I tried one and I really liked it, but I need to bring my pedals and amp in.

I felt like it was a tinge too "bright" though, and I'm wondering if getting it with a rosewood fingerboard would help.

I am also wondering about the difference between that and this:

http://www.glguitars.com/instruments...nico/index.asp

is the alnico version different somehow? I know it's a different pickup, but how does it affect the sound? Anyone know of any sound comparisons?

[Jae.Thomas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgw4oW_KHww

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

I felt like it was a tinge too "bright" though, and I'm wondering if getting it with a rosewood fingerboard would help.

Does the one you played not have a tone knob? Most overlooked control in the business. (I'm somewhat serious though, it's a wonderful knob). I'm not convinced at all the fret board makes a bit of difference FWIW.

[Reason]

I agree with Karbo. Electronics are the primary portion of a guitar's tone, followed by the player, followed by the wood, followed by voodoo like lacquer vs poly.

Maple fretboards are purported to need less maintenance than rosewood. Other than that, it's down to feel - what do you prefer under your fingers?

[pipelineaudio]

I'm at this point, regardless of how much I believed it in the past, now after actual apples to apples tests and as much actual, real world testing as I could find, I'm 99.99999~% sure that rosewood vs maple fingerboard isn't going to make any difference at all to the output jack of an electric guitar

[Tommy V]

Jason,

I'm assuming you already know of the history of G&L, the brainchild of George Fullerton & Leo Fender, (hence, G&L), who established G&L while CBS was busy wrecking the "Fender" brand name.

Leo and George' motto was "Let's make 'em the way we used to make 'em" ... and so, G&L was born in 1980.

I'm a big proponent of G&L guitars, with a stable of early S-500's, Broadcaster's, Nighthawk/Skyhawk, F-100, a Lynx bass ... and then later on a couple of Legacy's or three ... these instruments are every bit more 'Fender' then anything that CBS put out in the dreary years of 1965-1981, and even hold up well with the Fender products since then.

The bottom line is that Leo Fender created the Telecaster, Stratocaster, and Precision Bass with the working musician in mind ... affordable instruments that "just work" (to borrow a phrase from Steve Jobs) ...

After Leo died, in 1991, BBE (Barcus Berry) took over the G&L company, and have since modernized the production process, but in the end have maintained a quality that Leo himself would've approved of.

I haven't tried any of the modern G&L's or Tribute series G&L's, but from what I've heard and read, they're still one of the best bangs for the buck that yer gonna find anywhere.


~ Tommy V ~

[pipelineaudio]

here's one about alnico and ceramic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrgt...lxCRh73waEnjeZ

[richie43]

I have some G&L's, and the first one linked has the MFD pickups, which are higher output and perhaps brighter. The alnicos are going to be more "vintage" or familiar to you. I personally love the MFD pickups, unlike anything else I have ever had. They just take some getting used to (and often different settings on the amps and pedals, so not always swappable with other guitars).

[richie43]

Originally Posted by Tommy V

... these instruments are every bit more 'Fender' then anything that CBS put out in the dreary years of 1965-1981...

I have said since the mid 90's when I started my G&L addiction, "More Fender than Fender".
Amazing values.

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

here's one about alnico and ceramic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrgt...lxCRh73waEnjeZ

My Fender Strat is a 2013 Mex, rosewood board, which came with ceramic pups ... I like the rosewood board mainly for aesthetic reasons, but the ceramic pups were a bit too soft and blurry for me .. so I swapped the entire pickguard assembly with a StewMac "Golden Age" set. What a huge difference ... the Alnico's have more bite and articulation, and when dialing back on the tone knobs they don't descend into muddiness.


~ Tommy V ~

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by richie43

The alnicos are going to be more "vintage" or familiar to you. I personally love the MFD pickups, unlike anything else I have ever had. They just take some getting used to (and often different settings on the amps and pedals, so not always swappable with other guitars).

Yes, the MFD pups have a rich creamy sound on their own, and as you say they take some getting used to ... one of which is that with the MFD's you don't always have them cranked full tilt on the tone and volume knobs ... they're very abrupt when dialing back on tone and especially volume ... quite versatile for a knob tweaker, an amazing range of tones with just a slight twist of a knob.


~ Tommy V ~

[trevlyns]

My penny's worth -

Pickup placement is the first key to 'tone' ('else why would a neck pup sound 'warm' and a bridge 'bright')
A pickup is just an electro-magnet (Pipelineaudio's video is great!) sending signal to an amp where tone can be shaped. And we all know that the resulting sound can be infinitely shaped by the recording engineer.
Then the biggest bug bear - tone woods. Not wanting to open a can of worms, but the moment you can convince me that wood is magnetic and therefore contributes to tone, I may start believing you..

[ivansc]

Jason - long term USA G&L player here. Get a rosewood necked ORIGINAL STYLE ASAT.
Those MDF - or MFD or whatever - pickups are the business.
Fuller and fatter than the classic`s pickups so they sound like they would address your concerns over excessive brightness.
I have a maple fingerboard 90 or 91 ASAT and it is a great guitar. Wish it had a rosewood board but I am completely happy with it anyway.
Played a few of the classics and yes they are a little thinner sounding than mine even with rosewood boards.

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by trevlyns

Then the biggest bug bear - tone woods. Not wanting to open a can of worms, but the moment you can convince me that wood is magnetic and therefore contributes to tone, I may start believing you..

Worm Can has been opened. /grin ....

No, wood isn't magnetic, but in a solid body guitar it does resonate somewhat which then feeds back into the general loop of tone. The reverse also happens, lack of resonance in the wood, and overall makeup of the guitar, can have a subtle or huge impact on how an electric guitar responds. This is the reason why ppl mess around with different types of bridges, nuts, neck joints, etc etc ... it's subtle and not always prominent, but whatever the case may be, it does make a difference, at least to the ear of the player.

I prefer a rosewood fingerboard over a maple because, in my mind, the rosewood feels (and sounds?) "mellower" and "softer" ... a subjective thing to be sure ... your mileage may differ ... but in the end it's all about making music in a manner which is most comfortable for me, and if I'm playing a different instrument with other accoutrements then I'd adapt to that particular instrument ...

It's all in the fingers first, not the "pickups" (sorry Reason), and not in the tonewoods ... ultimately, it's all in the mind of the player.


~ Tommy V ~

[brainwreck]

The body of a guitar sure as hell makes a difference. Find a tele with a mahogany body and see what you think.

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

The body of a guitar sure as hell makes a difference. Find a tele with a mahogany body and see what you think.

We're talking Physics here, very subtle and nuanced Physics, of which few of us are well versed on ... but you're absolutely right, our human ear and brain hears stuff which even the best Physicist's are *still* studying and *still* haven't got a complete grip on ... the human brain is one amazing thing, ehhhhh ?? <grin>


~ Tommy V ~

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Jason - long term USA G&L player here. Get a rosewood necked ORIGINAL STYLE ASAT.
Those MDF - or MFD or whatever - pickups are the business.
Fuller and fatter than the classic`s pickups so they sound like they would address your concerns over excessive brightness.
I have a maple fingerboard 90 or 91 ASAT and it is a great guitar. Wish it had a rosewood board but I am completely happy with it anyway.
Played a few of the classics and yes they are a little thinner sounding than mine even with rosewood boards.

Jason might also benefit from reading thru the GbL (Guitars by Leo) website, independently established back in the mid 90's by G&L fans, now wholly owned and run by G&L ... not as fun a site as it used to be, but still quite informative, and if you dive back into its archives there is a whole lotta fascinating info about G&L's ....

http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/

Enjoy,
~ Tommy V ~

[grinder]

Don't get me started
Plastic coat vs nitro cellulose vs oiled
Maple neck vs ebony vs rosewood
easy to hear easy to hear

What we do not hear much of is how any guitar ages and changes it's tone sometimes for better even electrics!

Even a guitar we may not like the sound of playing throughout a number may in fact be a hit if played just for a few bars because of it's difference.


Grinder

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by grinder

Don't get me started
Plastic coat vs nitro cellulose vs oiled
Maple neck vs ebony vs rosewood
easy to hear easy to hear

What we do not hear much of is how any guitar ages and changes it's tone sometimes for better even electrics!

Even a guitar we may not like the sound of playing throughout a number may in fact be a hit if played just for a few bars because of it's difference.


Grinder

LOL

[Aeolian]

Call me crazy, but I really love the sound of my Hohner steinberger copy, for clean tones.

No headstock, no horns or armrest, double ball end strings, emg actives.... It also has this whack leg-bar that pulls out from the body.

For rich comp/chorus/clean sounds, its pretty awesome.

[somebodyelseuk]

Walk into the shop. Plug it in. Play it.
If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

All the rest of it is complete bollocks.
Wood is inconsistent. Pickups are inconsistent. Electronics are inconsistent.
Two pieces from the same tree can be very different, so to say a species of wood give you a, b and c is ridiculous.
I've done a lot of pissing about with pickups and seen inconsistencies in magnet across a single pickup, let alone between pickups of the same "specification". A pickup's 'spec' will change with ambient temperature.
Pots, caps etc. Even the 'best' components have a relatively wide tolerance.
The vast majority of 'your' sound is your amp and speaker.
Your TONE is 100% you - how YOU play.

[barrymk]

I remember in the 70's at the end of a band rehearsal the singer's husband walked in. Our guitarist had just bought a Kramer with the ally neck. It sounded as shit as the Gretsch Rockstar/Jet thing he'd used previously. The husband picked up the guitar, same settings etc etc and it sang like a bird. Don't forget the influence a player has on sound!

Addendum
I think the poster above just beat me to that point!

[rcl]

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

Walk into the shop. Plug it in. Play it.
If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

All the rest of it is complete bollocks.
Wood is inconsistent. Pickups are inconsistent. Electronics are inconsistent.
Two pieces from the same tree can be very different, so to say a species of wood give you a, b and c is ridiculous.
I've done a lot of pissing about with pickups and seen inconsistencies in magnet across a single pickup, let alone between pickups of the same "specification". A pickup's 'spec' will change with ambient temperature.
Pots, caps etc. Even the 'best' components have a relatively wide tolerance.
The vast majority of 'your' sound is your amp and speaker.
Your TONE is 100% you - how YOU play.

This is solid advise. If you find yourself staring at the next victim on the wall but dont really want to stop playing. Thats THE ONE.

[Bjorn218]

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

Walk into the shop. Plug it in. Play it.
If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

All the rest of it is complete bollocks.
Wood is inconsistent. Pickups are inconsistent. Electronics are inconsistent.
Two pieces from the same tree can be very different, so to say a species of wood give you a, b and c is ridiculous.
I've done a lot of pissing about with pickups and seen inconsistencies in magnet across a single pickup, let alone between pickups of the same "specification". A pickup's 'spec' will change with ambient temperature.
Pots, caps etc. Even the 'best' components have a relatively wide tolerance.
The vast majority of 'your' sound is your amp and speaker.
Your TONE is 100% you - how YOU play.

Spoken truth.

[ivansc]

Forgot to say in my earlier G&L post, Jason - there IS a difference in both playability sound and build quality in the USAs and the Tributes.
Up to you to decide if the difference in price is justified.

Or you could go second hand like I did.

[pipelineaudio]

Yay the magical tonewood debate! My favorite

[somebodyelseuk]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

is the alnico version different somehow? I know it's a different pickup, but how does it affect the sound? Anyone know of any sound comparisons?

Further to yesterday's rant...

This is difficult to say. There would/should be a difference, otherwise why offer the option?
First off, don't dismiss ceramic magnets based on the old myth of 'they sound like shit'. Ceramics got a bad rep in the late 70s/80s when the Japanese budget makers - Hondo, Satellite, Hohner etc - fitted pickups with ceramics magnets. Ceramic magnets are cheaper to manufacture and can hold a lot more charge than an AlNiCo magnet. High charge means higher output, so they could use less windings and get a comparable output for less money... except less windings means... less everything, hence harsh toppy 'noise'...
Used responsibly, ceramic magnets can sound incredible - most of yer high output metal pickups use ceramic magnets, balanced with lots of windings to bring in the midrange.

Very simplified, for a given coil -
AlNiCo III - More midrange-least magnetic capacity-lower output
II
IV
V - more lows/highs-highest magnetic charge capacity-highest output.

The different materials also have differing magnetic field 'footprints', which means for a given pole dimension, they read more or less of the string length, which again affects it's sound.

Of course, depending on the required characteristics of the pickup, the coil is wound to balance the above. Then you've got the variables of coil winding to add to the pot...

Having never played either of the guitars in question, and G&L being a very highly regarded manufacturer, I would speculate that both guitars sound very good, but they will have different character. My guess would be the AlNiCo equipped guitar is 'voiced' to sound like 50s Tele - for country or rockabilly sounds, while the (presumably) ceramic model is perhaps aimed at a more blues/rock player?
Again, you have to play them both and take it from there.

[Jeffsounds]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

is the alnico version different somehow? I know it's a different pickup, but how does it affect the sound? Anyone know of any sound comparisons?

This came this morning in my email. Might be of some help.

Premier Guitar: Guitar Pickups 101

[Jimmy James]

I have been a G&LFANBOY since 1995. The entire point of buying a G&L is MFD pickups! You will regret getting the "Alnico" unless you already have some MFD style pickups.

Now, I am going to give you the best advice possible. DO NOT ORDER A STOCK G&L!

DO NOT ORDER A STOCK G&L!

Find a G&L dealer. And custom order your guitar! G&L does not "upcharge" to change out any parts unless the part cost more than stock.
So you can pick your neck profile, fretboard radius, pickguard, pickups, FRET SIZE, Paint Job, etc. And not pay anything more for it.
Now, if you select say a Mirror Pickguard. You only pay for the price of the pickguard, not the labor to install it. You can get a custom G&L for the same price you are looking at.

ASAT is my favorite G&L. I use to have 5 of them at one point. I have downsized to 3 of them. Beware the 3 pickup ASAT. I have one ASAT with 3 pickups. It is a customized Will Ray. The only problem with 3 pickup ASATs is the toggle switch is crowded to the volume knob. If you swap out the selector switch, you have more room to make fast switching, precise, and on stage.
You owe it to yourself to try the "Z-Coil" pickups. They are a MFD split. They are more quiet than any of my Gibson guitars with Humbuckers! It is the most quiet guitar I have ever owned.
I use to have a Skyhawk with Z coils as well. And same thing, 100% noise free.

As far as the "bright" thing goes. Just turn your treble down a hair, or roll the tone knob off to "9". The G&L plays well with the Tone knobs.

On the Legacy style guitars, they use the PTB system. The two tone knobs are a Bass and Treble cut! This makes it the most useful strats I have ever owned.

Every album I have played on is 90% a G&L guitar. The "brightness" thing will surprise you in a band mix. G&L guitars sound better in a mix, than they do playing buy yourself.

Don't let the "TONEWOOD" thing get you on the Maple vs Rosewood. Don't worry about that at all. Pick what ever fretboard you like the look and feel of the best.
Choosing a fretboard you prefer the look of will make you want to play that guitar more. It will also inspire you as well.

Last thing. I love the ASAT classic bridge. But if I could only choose one bridge, it would be the ASAT Locking Saddle bridge. It is by far the nicest bridge I have ever used or worked on. One you have the action set and intonation dialed in. There is a small allen screw on the side that you tighten. This pushes all the saddles together. This holds them in place, and increases sustain buy making the saddles and bridge vibrate as one piece.

Also check out some other radius. The 9.5 you are looking at is nice. I LOVE having a 12' radius on a ASAT. I also have a 7.5 on a Blues Boy.

Be sure to check out the "Semi Hollow, No F_Hole". My Blues Boy weighs 4.5 pounds. And it looks and sounds like a solid body. But is light as air. Doing a 3 hour gig with that is much easier than slinging a LP Custom around.

Pound for Pound, G&L gives you more bang for the buck than any guitar IMO. G&L owner take them to the grave!

[grinder]

Originally Posted by Bjorn218

Spoken truth.

My recorded music over the last 5 numbers contains the use of only one guitar amplifier, one speaker cabinet with the same two speakers, one microphone recording the sound, one recording chain and guitar effects, the same ADA and DAW.
The only difference inside the tunes/songs as far as guitar goes are that I have used either a p90 Edmonds a Tokai?, a Custom Strat, a Gibson 335, a Gibson 175 a home assembled Telecaster. I can hear the difference in all of these and so can everyone I know........

Grinder

[msundh]

So why don't anyone sell G&L in Europe?

[JamesPeters]

First, here's my background:

-I've been making guitar amps for 16 years, which involves a whole lot of testing with different guitars (of my own, and owned by others).

-I've changed pickups more times than I can count and have lost track of that in several guitars I've owned (even when trying to keep track of it). I've owned lots of different electric guitars made of different wood types, and sometimes several "of the same model" which allowed me to swap necks/bodies and note the differences. A few years ago I decided to (finally) learn enough to maintain my own guitars including doing setups, fret leveling, fret replacement, etc. and buy all required tools/supplies for the tasks; I've been doing setups minimum 2x a year on my guitars.

-A couple years ago I decided to learn how to make pickups, after years of repairing and frankensteining other brands of pickups (swapping bobbins/magnets/poles).


And now my 2 cents' worth on this subject:

-Anything that resonates on a guitar, including but definitely not limited to the wood, will affect the sound of the guitar (and this includes electric guitars; resonance isn't suddenly removed from the equation just because electronics are added to it). "Tonewood" is a term that makes no sense to me; wood is wood. Utilitarian reasons dictated which woods were used to make guitars by large manufacturers, not so much their "tone". This means I don't think any one type of wood is inherently better than another overall.

-The above also does not mean that alder "always sounds like X" or rosewood "always sounds like Y". A wood "type" is actually far broader than most realize, containing various species of plant with different characteristics. Also unless the wood is treated the same (especially in terms of drying to an appropriate moisture content before building the guitar), one piece of "wood type A" can sound different from another piece of the same "wood type A" from the same species of tree. A lot of these differences will be subtle, but sometimes not. As an example: some mahogany-bodied guitars can sound every bit as "bright and poppy" as you'd expect from alder-bodied guitar; I've witnessed this and have had this sort of thing confirmed by others many times.

-Hardware used on the guitar will affect the resonance. Something as small as using metal pickup rings versus plastic can have an affect on the sound (albeit small); choosing a bridge made of different material and also more/less mass can have a very serious impact on the sound. Some people take this to extremes, paying hundreds of dollars for bridges and blocks made of titanium for instance; I'm not quite that picky but I do understand the difference that using steel versus brass versus aluminum makes and I have my preferences (and those preferences will vary based on how the resonance of the hardware works for the guitar's particular pieces of wood).

-Pickups can be inconsistent in their sound but also they can be consistent. I'd argue that pickups can easily be made more consistently than wood can be produced to sound consistent. The reasons some pickups have sounded inconsistent can be chalked up to changes in production (change of suppliers of wire/pole pieces etc., poor QC, intentional changes to a particular product, and so on). Some can also be attributed to the wear a pickup can sustain over time (especially if you bang your guitar around a lot, and also don't get the pickups re-potted in wax when required). I'm not saying all pickup manufacturers make consistent pickups, but I'm saying it's easily possible and that comes from the perspective of someone who "hand winds" them himself (I wind them on a machine but I guide the pattern manually and set the tension for each bobbin that I wind); if I can control the variables enough to keep my pickups consistent, it should be relatively easy for a company that mass produces pickups to keep consistency as well (using more computer-guided processes). I've also heard pickups of the same model made years apart (Gibson, Duncan, Dimarzio)--swapped in the same guitar within a couple minutes--sounding virtually identical (several times); I've done tests like this to demystify things about guitars, and learn what makes some older designs different from the newer ones (which sometimes can sound quite different!)

-A well set-up guitar will help you get the sound you're after. Sometimes a poor set up is all that stands in the way of making a guitar sound great. And also unfortunately a lot of guitar techs aren't great at doing setups (some are, don't get me wrong...but what qualifies as a "good setup" depends on the skill and opinion of the tech).


Whether I agree or disagree with some people on this thread about some particular aspect of a guitar's sound, and to what degree I agree/disagree, I'll say this: I definitely agree with those who say "go to a store, try some guitars, pick the one that sounds best". I'll also add this: go in "blind"; that is, don't expect that you'll prefer a Les Paul or whatever model/color/etc. If a pink tele sounds best to you, so be it. Don't deny the sound you prefer. A great guitar doesn't have to cost a lot; they can be had for very cheap. If you want to be picky about some features/aspects/cosmetics/fit-and-finish, that's another story and some of that costs a lot more money. Just know that it's not a matter of thousands of dollars to get a great sounding guitar. And if you want to go down a rabbit hole of changing pickups, hardware, and so on...you can. I'm evidence of that. The guitar player is more the source of "the sound" he gets than any particular piece of gear he uses. You can enjoy different guitars/pickups more for the sound you get with your own playing, but your playing dictates the lion's share of the sound. I mean, not counting a really bad guitar that's poorly set up and has outright terrible/broken pickups. Cheap guitars have come a long way since I was a kid; I used to be able to blame a guitar on how much I suck, but that's a lot harder to do now.

[karbomusic]

-Anything that resonates on a guitar, including but definitely not limited to the wood, will affect the sound of the guitar (and this includes electric guitars; resonance isn't suddenly removed from the equation just because electronics are added to it).

I'll dig the thread up at a later time but maybe six months ago I mounted a free standing pickup up over the strings of a strat, then over the strings of a solid wood acoustic and recorded it, no one in the thread knew which was which and some thought the electric was the acoustic. The reason for electric vs acoustic was exactly because the discussion was about "what does that pickup, pick up", apparently it wasn't the wood. That pretty much puts a really big question mark on anyone who feels the wood of the guitar affects what comes out of those pickups in any way *other* than amount of sustain or the PU being microphonic.

My first inclination is that the wood must reflect resonance back into the strings affecting tone, I was never able to prove it to myself or anyone else.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Jimmy James

As far as the "bright" thing goes. Just turn your treble down a hair, or roll the tone knob off to "9".

Absolutely!

Don't let the "TONEWOOD" thing get you on the Maple vs Rosewood. Don't worry about that at all. Pick what ever fretboard you like the look and feel of the best.
Choosing a fretboard you prefer the look of will make you want to play that guitar more. It will also inspire you as well.

Excellent advice, I have maybe 17 guitars spanning fret boards with rosewood, ebony, maple. I've never chosen any of them for any tone reason whatsoever and it never mattered. I do tend to like ebony and maple because their density is higher than rosewood and as much as I used to play, my fingers would start eating away at the rosewood (which is also an open grain right?) sooner than say ebony. Long term, I've always had more trouble out of rosewood, not much mind you, but more than the other two.

[Greedy]

I have no useful guitar experience or knowledge (fiddle and keys mainly), but I'll echo what some others have said: go play a bunch of instruments in and out of your price range and buy the one you like the best that you can afford. I've never understood how people can purchase an instrument they have never played. There are just too many variables in materials, workmanship, and setup, even between the same the model. I guess some people are comfortable buying sight unseen as long as they know it has a rosewood fingerboard, brand X pickups, etc. etc., but to me that is like buying a fiddle online that has an ebony fingerboard, a Hungarian maple bridge, and a Transylvanian spruce top; none of that tells me how it sounds or how it feels in my hands.

Alternative viewpoint: if you aren't a guitar player and can't appreciate the various subtleties of tone and feel, you may be better off buying blind based on input from knowledgeable people.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Greedy

I've never understood how people can purchase an instrument they have never played. There are just too many variables in materials, workmanship, and setup, even between the same the model.

Two main reasons since there really aren't that many variables...

1. Manufacturing quality and consistency is light years ahead of what it was in the past. You should not need to play 10 of the same guitar to find a "good one" assuming you are willing to pay for a good one. If the goal is to find the rare bird in cheaply made ones, go to the store and play them because you've already decided on going the crap shoot route.

2. The guitar usually wants at least some setup regardless because it is rare it will be unboxed in the same environmental conditions as the factory and environment affects setup.

I've purchased right at $5000.00 in guitars over the last 7 years (Taylor 814CE, American Deluxe Strat, Baby Taylor). All were bought site unseen still in the box with the original staples in the box, two of those were purchased online and shipped to me, the other I picked up but in factory box untouched. They arrived, and all of them needed very little if any setup though I'm fully qualified to set up my own guitars. Also think about this... they were last touched by the QC guy in the factory then me, vs a store with god knows who trying them out... salivating over them and knocking that factory setup out of whack and so on.

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Two main reasons since there really aren't that many variables...

I did say I'm a fiddle player andnot a guitar player, so I'll stand by my statements, at least as they apply to fiddles (plenty of fiddle players share your view though and don't mind buying online). I can see how modern manufacturing would produce consistency in quality for guitars (electric moreso than acoustic), but a good violin will require significant manual tweaking of the top to optimize tone, there is no way to automate that. This will cause variations between violins of the same model that may or may not be acceptable. Especially as you move up in price point, there are no Strat or Les Paul equivalent for fiddle where one can be reasonably assured of consistency in tone and volume.

I'm also less likely to buy several expensive instruments, having an irrational tendency to form personal relationships with them and being reluctant to trade them in - I like to get it right the first time. But fortunately most reputable online dealers will have a fait return policy if you get a dud in the mail, so if you are comfortable buying sight unseen, you aren't risking much except time and perhaps shipping costs.

This is all moot for the OP; rereading his post sounds like he's able to try before he buys, and he's really just looking for opinions on specific models. Sorry for the thread derail.

[Jeffsounds]

Originally Posted by grinder

The only difference inside the tunes/songs as far as guitar goes are that I have used either a p90 Edmonds a Tokai?, a Custom Strat, a Gibson 335, a Gibson 175 a home assembled Telecaster. I can hear the difference in all of these and so can everyone I know........

Grinder

I'm sorry but you have too many guitars. You'd better send that 335 to me...

<eh, it was worth a shot>

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Greedy

I did say I'm a fiddle player andnot a guitar player, so I'll stand by my statements, at least as they apply to fiddles.

For the fiddle thread/example, go for it. It just isn't the case for guitars (anymore) unless the person is overly picky, or possibly doesn't really know what they want or we are too far down in budget land we are forced to try to find one that randomly turned out better - I do know what I want so it's not much issue - being an old fart playing guitars for so long doesn't hurt of course.

[grinder]

Yes I am a guitar addict I confess, even down to my hand made ones.....
I have to restrain myself Looking at it though I have been playing guitar for

51 years........

I have only sold three and I miss them....

Grinder