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Old 01-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #1
aladeaire
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Default I think it is sad...

... that filters like this are starting to appear to filter the music you hear based on "qualities" so subjective and applied for other people different than the one who ends up listening. Streamed music promotion could end up being manipulated in the same way traditional radio stations does now.

Check the link:

http://www.musicthinktank.com/blog/r...rs-are-co.html
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:21 AM   #2
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Perhaps so, but the core issue is really this one:

"...I believe we will rapidly reach a point where consumers are so sick of artists engaged in self-promotion, that it won’t matter if the quality filters are perfect or not..."

In short, there are so many people clammoring to be "stars" (or promote whatever products) that people want/need tools for filtering.

In short, everyone is trying to make a buck, and everyone is in need of a "relevence to their own life" filter, LOL!

Reminds me of Vegas. Years ago I went to dealer school there, had to survive between more normal jobs for me. I mentioned to another dealer... "The Strip is so full of lights... the way to get noticed would be a sign that blacks out all the other light!"

Fast forward 10 years... Steve Wynn's latest casinos are... black! (Against all the other basically white architecture, that he himself started, for the most part, with The Mirage, LOL!)

If anything is sad, it's how the need for continuous growth in the current economic system will eventually burn the planet out. That is aside from reaching it's limit. I mean, really, after everyone is selling as much of everything to everyone as they can, where do you expand to??? Mars?

LOL!



So in the end what's *really* needed, is a sustainable way for us *all* to live like the rich.

Might not be doable, but I keep hoping we'll all wake up to the need for it.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by flmason View Post
So in the end what's *really* needed, is a sustainable way for us *all* to live like the rich.

Might not be doable, but I keep hoping we'll all wake up to the need for it.
That's a good point, certainly.. I think you're not alone on this one.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #4
jonathonbarton
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Originally Posted by flmason View Post
So in the end what's *really* needed, is a sustainable way for us *all* to live like the rich.
North Americans have a skewed sense of being "rich", however.

I mean, you can sum it up by taking the statement "In American, poor people often have to live in their cars" to essentially anywhere else on the planet and see what reaction you get.

"In America, poor people HAVE CARS!?!?!?!?!"

However, I don't see the relevance of the MOG demonstration to any sort of "quality filter"? The filters shown in the demo video show more or less what's been available on various sites for a decade.
* Play more music like this artist
* Play music that my "friends" (who have similar interests to me) like.

*shrug*
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jonathonbarton View Post
North Americans have a skewed sense of being "rich", however.

I mean, you can sum it up by taking the statement "In American, poor people often have to live in their cars" to essentially anywhere else on the planet and see what reaction you get.

"In America, poor people HAVE CARS!?!?!?!?!"

However, I don't see the relevance of the MOG demonstration to any sort of "quality filter"? The filters shown in the demo video show more or less what's been available on various sites for a decade.
* Play more music like this artist
* Play music that my "friends" (who have similar interests to me) like.

*shrug*
Perhaps. But I hope you're not suggesting that the answer is that we should want to create a world where everyone lives in 3rd world fashion?

Trust me, I've lived in several places where the differences were easy to see.

Consider the Palm Beaches. Once worked in an office where I could see out the same window, the slums of downtown West Palm, and Donald Trump's Mara Lago (or whatever it's called). Here in "The OC" it's not too far of a driver from Compton to Laguna Beach.

And that's just in the U.S.

(OK granted the homes in even Compton, by world standards are actually not bad, but the social problems are another issue.)

Anyway, having spent my life working and not made it into the "richy rich" club and seen others that have gotten in without half the effort, I'm convinced there's no clear relationship between effort and reward, except in fairly confined starting conditions.

What baffles me is why the political will to create a "utopia" if you will, doesn't exist and we continue with crappy limited conflicts and such.

Yeah, I know there's a big question about "who's definition of utopia", but just seems we could do better than we do today. I mean heck, we can split atoms and send junk to Mars. Are the actual physical problems of the world that intractable, or is it just in the mind?

I think we know the answer, LOL!
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:08 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by flmason View Post
What baffles me is why the political will to create a "utopia" if you will, doesn't exist and we continue with crappy limited conflicts and such.

Yeah, I know there's a big question about "who's definition of utopia", but just seems we could do better than we do today. I mean heck, we can split atoms and send junk to Mars. Are the actual physical problems of the world that intractable, or is it just in the mind?

I think we know the answer, LOL!
Well, Marx thought he had a good stab at defining utopia and the Soviets thought they had a good stab at making it a reality...

Problem is, people aren't cut out for any kind of utopia where we all live happily everafter and all have about the same (high) standard of living. That would only work if we could engineer greed, envy and selfishness out of the human species. As long as people are (at least in part) motivated by self interest, greed and wanting to do better than their neighbour we can forget about making any significant progress with closing the gap between rich and poor, be it within a country or globally.

The West has been quite good at raising their general standard of living (often by exporting the exploitation of the poor to other countries) but the result has not been a greater equality of wealth, in fact over the last decade the gap between rich and poor has really been widening as we have become more comfortable with the idea that the "looking our for nuber 1", materialistic greed and a focus on the rights of the individual (without a counterbalance of insiting on matching responsibilities) were all morally acceptable, if not even desirable.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:14 AM   #7
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Well, I tend to agree with some of your points.

I don't really know a lot about Marxism, Socialism, etc. by my own admission. Just what I had in school and college left me thinking, "only a race of saints could make this happen as idealized". Or very small groups of people with shared problems. So yeah, I don't see that working. As the USSR clearly demonstrated Seems when folks don't perceive a connection between effort and reward, they create equity by doing less, LOL!

On the other hand I do believe in individual rights. That's what I want most from my gov't. Not to compel me to do things, but to insure that I can't be messed with by powerful groups or individuals. I want least of all to have to conform to some other person or groups' value systems.

Of course for that to work for everyone, we have to define where the border is between the rights of different individuals. Which obstensibly, the legal system is supposed to do. But of course, because it consists of people, it's going to be corrupt, LOL!

So in the end it really becomes a question of balance, I guess. How to reward those who want to work harder and get further, while at the same time, not forcing those who want a slower pace to live in poverty.

Not sure how to achieve that since there are so many people, so many issues, and so much history that people feel an allegiance to.

As always, a given person's situation gives them a particular perspective on any given issue. And ultimately survival is a personal challenge.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by flmason View Post
Perhaps so, but the core issue is really this one:

"...I believe we will rapidly reach a point where consumers are so sick of artists engaged in self-promotion, that it won’t matter if the quality filters are perfect or not..."

In short, there are so many people clammoring to be "stars" (or promote whatever products) that people want/need tools for filtering.

In short, everyone is trying to make a buck, and everyone is in need of a "relevence to their own life" filter, LOL!

Reminds me of Vegas. Years ago I went to dealer school there, had to survive between more normal jobs for me. I mentioned to another dealer... "The Strip is so full of lights... the way to get noticed would be a sign that blacks out all the other light!"

Fast forward 10 years... Steve Wynn's latest casinos are... black! (Against all the other basically white architecture, that he himself started, for the most part, with The Mirage, LOL!)

If anything is sad, it's how the need for continuous growth in the current economic system will eventually burn the planet out. That is aside from reaching it's limit. I mean, really, after everyone is selling as much of everything to everyone as they can, where do you expand to??? Mars?

LOL!



So in the end what's *really* needed, is a sustainable way for us *all* to live like the rich.

Might not be doable, but I keep hoping we'll all wake up to the need for it.
There are too many people producing too much music, the "good stuff" is a small voice that's drowned out by this vast noise, are people even interested anyway ? probably not. Music as a career to make money has always baffled me, fame even more, surely those things comer as a side effect from a desire to actually "do something" to make something beautiful, initially for yourself ! if others then like it it's the icing on the cake. So many people want to be famous these days, and for what exactly ? fame is now an end in itself, with no substance behind it.

ARP
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 PM   #9
Simple Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARP View Post
So many people want to be famous these days, and for what exactly ? fame is now an end in itself, with no substance behind it.

ARP
Was it not ever thus for many? This desire for fame itself is simply the other side of the deep fears and insecurities underlying the human condition. Like greed, it attempts to fill an ontological void with more illusion.

But getting back to this "filters" thing.. what does it matter? As I understand it, it only applies to streamed music. So don't listen to streamed music if you don't want your listening determined by arbiters.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:49 AM   #10
flmason
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Originally Posted by ARP View Post
There are too many people producing too much music, the "good stuff" is a small voice that's drowned out by this vast noise, are people even interested anyway ? probably not. Music as a career to make money has always baffled me, fame even more, surely those things comer as a side effect from a desire to actually "do something" to make something beautiful, initially for yourself ! if others then like it it's the icing on the cake. So many people want to be famous these days, and for what exactly ? fame is now an end in itself, with no substance behind it.

ARP
Well, I think when you get down to it the motivation is clear.

Rock Star or Work A Day grunt?

Easy choice right?

Well, except that the myth that you can "be yourself, do what you want and be a star" is pretty much bunk. It's a fully matured corporate undertaking. With established power brokers at this point, LOL!

Maybe in the early days of the 60's when a ground floor opportunity was happening it was that way, but as time progressed, well we've ended up here.

Many want the "dream", but guess what, it's somewhat of a mirage, I guess. (How would I know, I'm not living it, LOL!)

Lyle Alzedo said it best for me. Some asked him as he was dying of cancer from steroid use, "Why'd you take all those steroids?" His answer went something like, "I had a choice to make, take the steroids, make big money and be famous, or be a nobody..."

So I fully understand the motivation. My only beef is with the propaganda and false beliefs that have been propogated surrounding the route to the goal. Well that and the glamorization of self destructive lifestyles and it really did lead to death and injury of some folks around me over the years.

Actually, maybe something I heard Robert Plant (yes of Zep) say once really covers it. And who to know better?

"This is the most contrived business on the planet".



None of which changes my attraction to the idea of making great tunes.
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