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09-16-2018, 02:49 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Easiest way sync 3 audio tracks/marker that stays with track
Is there a way to make a marker stay with the track and not the timeline. I still find syncing audio tracks from different cameras a hassle. I find a clear spot to cue and mark it but when I need to move the audio tracks to align the markers become useless. Is there a way to make the marker stick with the track or even better an automatic sync function. Reaper makes my Video Edit program from Cyberlink look totally cumbersome in the efficient ways Reaper can control many aspects but this Cyberlink can automate syncing the videos. Unfortunately it just lets once choose one audio track as the master and won't let you mix in some of the other cameras audio tracks which is what I want to do with Reaper. Any tips appreciated.
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09-16-2018, 04:35 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,039
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what I'm doing is recording a clap producing a aharp, easily recognizable audio peak in all camera's waveforms and then manually align those while zooming in until I can see the individual samples of the audio. Then, I group the items so that they will stay in sync. I'm not using markers for this task at all. I don't think there's an automatic audio alignment solution available in Reaper currently.
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09-16-2018, 06:09 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Argentina
Posts: 326
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You can define snap offsets dragging the bottom left triangle of every item, or using the "Item: Set snap offset to cursor" and use that to synchronize that points of every item to the grid or a marker. There are some snap offset and marker scripts scripts that maybe can automate the thing more. Check it out.
Edit: Then you can use "X-Raym_Align selected items across tracks.lua" to align automatically the snap offsets.
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Last edited by Pasajeromoronmoreno; 09-16-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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09-16-2018, 06:33 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
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I've done a fair amount of sync'ing multiple sources of the same event from different devices. Both digital and analog (and some analog with pretty severe speed problems).
In the workflow I'm used to, I just make slices at the target points. Then option-drag both of those item edges at that intersection together to align to the audio I'm calling the reference.
(This is verispeed work weather the recordings are digital or analog. Digital is still running at a slightly different speed form device to device just like analog but not the magnitude or as much ebb and flow back and forth. Don't forget to go into item preferences for all the audio and untick the preserve pitch when altering tempo box.)
Variable stretch markers are a new feature to me. This is powerful in that you can correct ramping up/down speed mayhem. The workflow is a little different with the stretch markers becomming the "slice" points in the items. I switch over to this workflow when required but I'm still quicker in my habits with slices if I don't have variable speeds. Switching to the stretch marker workflow for everything would be technically most accurate as there is technically always going to be some (if microscopic) speed ramp up/down.
(If you started something with slices and switch to stretch markers, you get into this PITA part where the item edges don't stretch with the audio and you end up putting a few things back together as it were along the way. This is the workflow bit I haven't consolidated for myself yet.)
Separate digital device recorded sources are easy peasy. Line up the ends and verispeed the target into place. If it's say, a two hour recording, you might only need to slice it down further into 4 or 8 divisions for correction on the back and forth. (You'll see .001 correction factors or sometimes so small that the telltale still reads 0.000.)
For analog device sources, make yourself comfortable and settle in for the battle! But it's kind of amazing how fast this can be done in Reaper. The Elastique Pro algorithm is fully lossless in verispeed mode. This means you can tweak along the way without feeling the need to start over when things get hairy and still end up with transparent results.
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09-17-2018, 08:48 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom
what I'm doing is recording a clap producing a aharp, easily recognizable audio peak in all camera's waveforms and then manually align those while zooming in until I can see the individual samples of the audio. Then, I group the items so that they will stay in sync. I'm not using markers for this task at all. I don't think there's an automatic audio alignment solution available in Reaper currently.
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Thanks for the reply. My stuff is already recorded. No problem to find a spot like a clap but other than splitting them finding it a hassle.
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09-17-2018, 08:49 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasajeromoronmoreno
You can define snap offsets dragging the bottom left triangle of every item, or using the "Item: Set snap offset to cursor" and use that to synchronize that points of every item to the grid or a marker. There are some snap offset and marker scripts scripts that maybe can automate the thing more. Check it out.
Edit: Then you can use "X-Raym_Align selected items across tracks.lua" to align automatically the snap offsets.
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All completely new concepts to me. I'll have to do some studying to see if I can figure it out. Thanks.
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09-17-2018, 08:53 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
I've done a fair amount of sync'ing multiple sources of the same event from different devices. Both digital and analog (and some analog with pretty severe speed problems).
In the workflow I'm used to, I just make slices at the target points. Then option-drag both of those item edges at that intersection together to align to the audio I'm calling the reference.
(This is verispeed work weather the recordings are digital or analog. Digital is still running at a slightly different speed form device to device just like analog but not the magnitude or as much ebb and flow back and forth. Don't forget to go into item preferences for all the audio and untick the preserve pitch when altering tempo box.)
Variable stretch markers are a new feature to me. This is powerful in that you can correct ramping up/down speed mayhem. The workflow is a little different with the stretch markers becomming the "slice" points in the items. I switch over to this workflow when required but I'm still quicker in my habits with slices if I don't have variable speeds. Switching to the stretch marker workflow for everything would be technically most accurate as there is technically always going to be some (if microscopic) speed ramp up/down.
(If you started something with slices and switch to stretch markers, you get into this PITA part where the item edges don't stretch with the audio and you end up putting a few things back together as it were along the way. This is the workflow bit I haven't consolidated for myself yet.)
Separate digital device recorded sources are easy peasy. Line up the ends and verispeed the target into place. If it's say, a two hour recording, you might only need to slice it down further into 4 or 8 divisions for correction on the back and forth. (You'll see .001 correction factors or sometimes so small that the telltale still reads 0.000.)
For analog device sources, make yourself comfortable and settle in for the battle! But it's kind of amazing how fast this can be done in Reaper. The Elastique Pro algorithm is fully lossless in verispeed mode. This means you can tweak along the way without feeling the need to start over when things get hairy and still end up with transparent results.
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Thanks. I think I've been doing the same thing? I've been splitting each of the 3 tracks at the part where there's a distinct spike. The problem before I wrote this post is the two split parts tend to be a hassle if they get apart at all. That's why I'd prefer a marker sticking with the track or much more preferable just click and tell reaper to sync all of them. My cumbersome and usually unintuitive video program can do it but not just for audio.
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09-17-2018, 10:02 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
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Yeah, just veri-speed correcting what you call the target version(s) to what you call the reference version. You identify the same transient points in the multiple versions.
The easiest bumbling mistake to make is missing unticking that box in item preferences for one or more of the audio items and ending up with a separated tempo from pitch adjustment. (Reaper defaults to the "DJ tricks" mode of separate tempo from pitch adjustment. You have to untick the 'preserve pitch...' box before you get started or you end up with mutilated garbage.)
The only way for items to become separated at a split in this scenario is from an errant mouse move when option-dragging to veri-speed them. (eg. accidentally forgetting to hold down the option key at some point or missing making a selection properly)
Naturally I've accidentally done that and any number of other things...
I have auto-backup set to every 3 minutes to cover my operator error.
Basically, if you see any white space in the middle anywhere - oops!
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09-17-2018, 11:47 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
Yeah, just veri-speed correcting what you call the target version(s) to what you call the reference version. You identify the same transient points in the multiple versions.
The easiest bumbling mistake to make is missing unticking that box in item preferences for one or more of the audio items and ending up with a separated tempo from pitch adjustment. (Reaper defaults to the "DJ tricks" mode of separate tempo from pitch adjustment. You have to untick the 'preserve pitch...' box before you get started or you end up with mutilated garbage.)
The only way for items to become separated at a split in this scenario is from an errant mouse move when option-dragging to veri-speed them. (eg. accidentally forgetting to hold down the option key at some point or missing making a selection properly)
Naturally I've accidentally done that and any number of other things...
I have auto-backup set to every 3 minutes to cover my operator error.
Basically, if you see any white space in the middle anywhere - oops!
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This part: " veri-speed correcting what you call the target version(s) to what you call the reference version. You identify the same transient points in the multiple versions." was an area I know nothing about but will see if I can get a grip on it. Thanks. Some of the comments above a bit over my head but as I can tell it seems that people say there's no way to put a marker on a track and stick with it as you move the track?
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09-17-2018, 11:59 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
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Stretch markers stay with the item.
You could get comfortable with a workflow using the stretch marker system for this if you want. And it's probably the better advice actually. I started doing this with splits and option-dragging to make the veri-speed adjustments before stretch markers were a thing (at least before the ramp up/down became an option). You mentioned using the same workflow so I expanded on that.
Splits are a pretty effective marker that stays with the items of course. This style of sync'ing multiple sources of audio is straightforward and quick as long as you aren't dealing with analog source mayhem where you need to significantly ramp up/down.
PS. The stretch marker method requires unticking that "preserve pitch..." option in item preferences just the same as the split method.
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09-17-2018, 07:54 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Argentina
Posts: 326
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The snap offset, in your case, can function like a marker that moves with the item. Then you can snap them to a marker or the grid. Also, you can put the snap offset with the mouse binding the action "Item: Set snap offset to cursor" to a shortcut. Then, put the cursor in the places to sync, and pres the shortcut.
And, if you download Reapack, there is the action (script) "X-Raym_Align selected items across tracks.lua", and with that you can automate the alignment part.
Sorry for my english, it's not my native language...
__________________
Living la vida loca
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09-18-2018, 07:41 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
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Sorry, I'm going to suggest snap offsets will not work for syncing multiple separately recorded sources of a single event.
You need the sync points (I'll call them) to be fixed and the audio on either side to expand/compress (from the veri-speed correction) to/from that point. In both directions. So you either need a hard split or stretch markers.
Snap offsets would be a way to keep a reference sync point for audio that is already in sync (but maybe has different start points).
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09-18-2018, 05:15 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
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Thanks to all who replied. The illustration looks helpful. Still uncharted territory for my level but I'm going to see if I can get a grip on it. Appreciate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasajeromoronmoreno
The snap offset, in your case, can function like a marker that moves with the item. Then you can snap them to a marker or the grid. Also, you can put the snap offset with the mouse binding the action "Item: Set snap offset to cursor" to a shortcut. Then, put the cursor in the places to sync, and pres the shortcut.
And, if you download Reapack, there is the action (script) "X-Raym_Align selected items across tracks.lua", and with that you can automate the alignment part.
Sorry for my english, it's not my native language...
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