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12-25-2018, 11:07 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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beginner reaper midi editor
Hello Everyone,
Please be tolerant with my belgian college level english
I'm new to Reaper and occasionally a sax player in a municipal brass band
I have a PC laptop and I don't intend to record any music through audio input device
My present ambition is loading into Reaper a midi file of a clarinet solo sheet and produce an acceptable semi realistic execution of it, tweaking what and where I can
Therefore I install a free Vsti called "sonatina clarinet"
I open the Midi Editor
I see the notes in the main window
I play the music which, indeed, can remotely evoke the timbre of a clarinet
In a CC lane drop down menu I choose "velocity", I apply some velocity degrees to a few notes and I notice an increasing of the .... sound level of the affected notes
After resetting the first CC lane I choose "expression", I apply some expression degrees to a few notes and I notice an increasing of the .... sound level of the affected notes
The Sonatina Vsti window offers 4 knobs A D S R that I take the risk to turn while the music is playing, the A button decresases the sound level and the R button produces strange noises, the other knobs don't even care
Could somebody please suggest some initiative for helping me progress towards my goal
Thank you in advance
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12-25-2018, 05:58 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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maybe this will help
first the ADSR controls
they are for:
Attack
Delay
Sustain
Release
and they control how the VSTi plays the sound samples it uses
for example, a faster Attack [turn the knob all the way to the left] plays the sample with an immediate and harder attack. Turning it more the right, slows or softens the attack.
you can figure out the others I bet...
R, Release will change how fast of slow the sound dies away at the end of the note...
Velocity will always work in the MIDI Editor.... more velocity often means a louder sound
Expression may or may not work, it will depend on the VSTi and if it includes that ability...
The VSTi you are using is going to give you a minimally realistic clarinet sound.... but ones that do give a real sound can be quite costly
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12-26-2018, 04:25 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Hopi thank you
On the other hand I don't see how to record in the track, at each moment of the execution, the manually chosen Attack value, knowing that, as far as I know, the ADSR parameters are not visible in the CC lane drop down menu
The document "Reaper VSTi Routing Tutorial and Guide-2.0.1a.zip by hopi" looks interesting but it seems that the required sampletank is not free
Last edited by JaHe; 12-26-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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12-26-2018, 06:54 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Do you mean the BigCat product?
http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.co...ize-vstis.html
The ADSR knobs are probably available as plug-in automation parameters (not are parameters controlled by MIDI CC events in the MIDI Editor.
To check, click on [Param] just above the plug-in GUI and look at the FX parameter list. Here they are in another plug-in - yours will probably have different names:
>>> https://i.imgur.com/IgpkqBf.png
Now the fun bit:
-- set the track's Automation Mode to "Write",
-- start playback,
-- AND move the Attack knob on the plug-in
The "automation envelope" for the Attack parameter will be created.
Now change the Automation Mode to "Trim/Read". On playback, this envelope will now change the Attack knob. Details of these steps are in the Reaoer User Guide.
Here is an example of 3 parameters that I have created:
... and that's just the start.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 12-27-2018 at 04:11 AM.
Reason: typos
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12-26-2018, 12:41 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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I think I get the idea
The Vsti is Sonatina clarine (bigcat) (32 out)
In the Fx parameter list I find 2 parameters : bypass and wet
But I don't find a "wet" knob that I would move for experimenting your process
I will Keep exploring with other Vsti
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12-27-2018, 04:24 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Hmm, if there are only those two parameters -they are added by Reaper. So it seems that the plug-in does not have its own parameters for automation.
In that case, the plug-in might have parameters controlled by MIDI CC (ask Bigcat)
[Edit: the following is only relevant IF the parameters to be controlled are published as plug-in parameters. so if there are only two (Bypass and Wet) it cannot be used for the plug-in's own controls.]
As an alternative to using "MIDI Learn" to automate plug-in parameters you could use Reaper's Param / MIDI Link to map MIDI CC# to the controls. As in, for the Amp Attack):
Then you can edit events for those MIDI CC# in the MIDI Editor. Or you can Record them into the MIDI item when playing a MIDI keyboard controller which has knobs or sliders. Depending on the controller you may be able to program the knobs/sliders or pick different CC#.
Details of MIDI Link and MIDI Recording are in the User Guide.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 01-19-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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12-27-2018, 11:15 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Well I cannot decently ask for more details before reading the user guide ...but thanks
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01-18-2019, 11:14 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaHe
"Reaper VSTi Routing Tutorial and Guide-2.0.1a.zip by hopi"
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Very interesting - I tried with Kontakt and Amadeus symphonic - Thank you
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01-19-2019, 01:39 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
In that case, the plug-in might have parameters controlled by MIDI CC (ask Bigcat). Or you could use Reaper's Param / MIDI Link to map MIDI CC# to the controls. As in, for the Amp Attack):
Then you can edit events for those MIDI CC# in the MIDI Editor.
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Clicking on [Param] doesn't seem to offer many options.
Anyway, before investigating more, knowing that ADSR knobs react with mouse when playing back a midi track, is it allowed to think that, in theory, if I spend my time inserting in the midi editor successively all the CC's possible, there will be at least 4 CC's activating these 4 ADSR effects ?
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01-19-2019, 05:53 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Oops - part of my previous reply was wrong. I've fixed that.
Anyway, as the plug-in does not publish any of its own parameters to the host they cannot be automated using Reaper's automation features. The only way, if the plug-in responds to MIDI CC messages, will be to send it those MIDI CC messages, from a keyboard or MIDI item.
You will need to ask Bigcat if that is possible and which CC messages to use. Maybe it is covered in Sonatina's User Guide?
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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01-19-2019, 10:25 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Anyway, as the plug-in does not publish any of its own parameters to the host they cannot be automated using Reaper's automation features. The only way, if the plug-in responds to MIDI CC messages, will be to send it those MIDI CC messages, from a keyboard or MIDI item.
You will need to ask Bigcat if that is possible and which CC messages to use. Maybe it is covered in Sonatina's User Guide?
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Well it seems that sonatina's related bigcat instrument blogspot has not been active for a while and I did not find a user guide
Anyway I only use that plug-in for learning purposes as I will use Amadeus instruments in the future.
So I already learned from you that some plug-in's parameter can be automated and some plug-in respond to CC messages.
So what I want to do, also for learning purposes, (please tell me if I'm wrong) is insert CC's ,among some notes, in the midi editor / Event list and play the midi item just to see if the plug-in is going to respond to any of them, and how
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01-19-2019, 10:42 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Yes, you can do that. It is probably easier to do in in the piano roll:
And I would get a different plug-in. one that does have plug-in parameters - then you can try automating them using Reaper's MIDI Learn or the MIDI Link method I described above.
For learning you could try this:
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/
As well as Reaper's automation features, this plug-in also has its own method of assigning MIDI CC messages to controls.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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01-20-2019, 01:00 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Malaga - Spain
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Yes, you can do that. It is probably easier to do in in the piano roll
And I would get a different plug-in. one that does have plug-in parameters - then you can try automating them using Reaper's MIDI Learn or the MIDI Link method I described above.
For learning you could try this:
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/
As well as Reaper's automation features, this plug-in also has its own method of assigning MIDI CC messages to controls.
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Thanks.
Yes indeed it was easier in the piano roll, and 2 CC's had some kind of delay or reverb effect.
Zebralette looks like a well designed and serious tool.
It has effectively a huge amount of parameters, even too many, but I am leaning more towards conventional instruments.
Maybe you know about a good afordable saxo family instruments ?
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06-27-2019, 07:31 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Yes, you can do that. It is probably easier to do in in the piano roll:
And I would get a different plug-in. one that does have plug-in parameters - then you can try automating them using Reaper's MIDI Learn or the MIDI Link method I described above.
For learning you could try this:
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/
As well as Reaper's automation features, this plug-in also has its own method of assigning MIDI CC messages to controls.
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Thanks for posting that GIF. How would I then assign a chosen VSTi knob to one of these MIDI CC lanes so I can automate it with the vertical bars instead of envelopes?
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