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Old 07-22-2009, 12:27 PM   #1
Amber.City
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Default Acoustic vs Acoustic Electric

I have a $3000 dollar Gibson Acoustic, which i love, but i want to start making recording acoustic easier, and create better quality, (since i'm no expert at mic-ing a guitar.) So i was looking into buying a pickup.

What would be better, buying a guitar that's no more than a $1000 dollars, thats an acoustic electric, or buying a picking, which would cost substantially less?

I'm not equating sound quality to money, but just showing how much i want to spend vs what i have.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:10 PM   #2
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personally i hate the sounds of pickups - flat lifeless things that don't translate dynamic playing or a nice 'guitar' sound (which your guitar no doubt has)...

i found the most natural miking arrangment ive got so far was a stereo mic (XY) setup using LDC types, a few feet away.

i'm sure with half-decent mics and your shit-hot guitar in a nice space, plus some judicious tweaking in post in reaper, you can get something far better than any pickup.
worth recording a pickup to blend in at low level perhaps if guitar has them.

no doubt if you wanted miking tips there are far more qualified than i to assist in that department.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:20 PM   #3
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My view is similar to BenK-msx, While accoustic pick-ups certainly have their place and can sound good in the right context, IMO nothing is going to beat a good guitar ( like yours ) well miced is a good accoustic space.
Heres a couple of things i do when micing acc guitar.

1st walk around in the room playing the guitar & find where in the room it sounds best to your ears and set up there.

2nd experiment with mic type / placement, i found often the best sound comes from not so orthodox mic placement. If it sounds good do it.

thats my 2c worth.

PS: If you are set on getting acc-guitar pickups look at the fishman range, peoples preferences are different but they sound good to me.

Cheers
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:00 PM   #4
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The least invasive pickup I know of that sounds good is the K&K Pure Mini...

http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html

A friend has one in his old Martian, and it sounds great! The only change is that you might have to drill out the End Pin a little to get the Output Jack/Cable Strap to fit. No amps or batteries, just plug it in & go.

With that said, mics are the best route, and grabbing a stereo pair to experiment with is the way to go. Let the rock's fly, but I have had great luck with the Behringer C2's on acoustic guitars & overheads. Well worth the price of admission to experiment some.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:06 PM   #5
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So an acoustic should be mic-ed stereo? two different mics?

the other problem i have, is that i don't have a room dedicated for my studio, let alone a vocal/acoustic room. It's in my bedroom, and even with that said, if you move just a wee bit, say if you want to stop recording, go back to the computer, then record again, the guitar sounds totally different! so unless you want to just fit it in the mix as a additive, it's very hard to get a good result!
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:21 PM   #6
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no set rules but a pair of same mics would be less problematic.
i found XY arrangement nice and lazy as no phase issues compared to spaced pair, just treat them as one mic, find a good place and go.

i think a stereo and 'backed off a bit' method gives a more 'realistic' 'natural' sound off the bat, so hopefully it sounds like your lovely guitar and not a 'recording of the sound by the neck of your lovely guitar', which can happen with just one mic close up.

hmm got a usb gamepad?

hooking that up to reaper (in midi devices) gives you a nice remote control for basic button functions, handy for self-recording, don't need to move so much then - that or tape the floor with your feet position or something. having mics a bit further away helps anyway. 3+ ft say. just my findings in limited trials [disclaimer!]

theres a 'yay! joystick control rocks' thread in the pre-release forum thats good to look at.

- if you post in recording technologies etc. forum, a host of hard-core "recorded 500 guitars 500 ways" guys could descend with advice also.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
no set rules but a pair of same mics would be less problematic.
i found XY arrangement nice and lazy as no phase issues compared to spaced pair, just treat them as one mic, find a good place and go.

i think a stereo and 'backed off a bit' method gives a more 'realistic' 'natural' sound off the bat, so hopefully it sounds like your lovely guitar and not a 'recording of the sound by the neck of your lovely guitar', which can happen with just one mic close up.
What do you mean XY arrangement?
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:32 PM   #8
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after a quick google- this has easy explanation:
http://www.bothners.co.za/articles/hsacoustic.shtml

example:
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:59 PM   #9
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Oh. i see. I guess i need another mic stand then. and matching mics. dear god. there goes another 600 bucks.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber.City View Post
Oh. i see. I guess i need another mic stand then. and matching mics. dear god. there goes another 600 bucks.
There are numerous devices for holding pairs of microphones. My favorite for X/Y is the Shure A27M "vert bar" but something as simple and inexpensive as this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...one_Mount.html

will do the job.

And, of course, you don't _need_ to record in stereo. In fact, you might be better off concentrating on mono for your first 100 to 200 recordings. Then when you've absorbed the sounds of different mic placements and room positions and internalized them, you can add the second mic and learn how to position the pair.

As one who went from no recording experience to creating a solo guitar CD over the course of about 4 years, I was surprised at how much there is to learn about the simple act of putting a mic in front of an instrument and pressing the "Record" button. And how little the gear had to do with the whole thing.

Fran
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Old 07-23-2009, 02:05 PM   #11
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Another idea is a Line 6 Variax Modeling guitar. You can pick one of those up anywhere from $300 to $1500. There all the same, sound wise though, I guess. I love mine for acoustic recording.
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:51 PM   #12
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Yeah Mic it, u can always compensate through FX on REAPER and it sounds so much better when it sounds like there playing in front of you instead of digitized in front of you.

I spend most my time when doing some music trying to make Synth stuff sound like it's mic'd.
I think it's personal taste like, some people like vinyls and some prefer digital media.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
There are numerous devices for holding pairs of microphones. My favorite for X/Y is the Shure A27M "vert bar" but something as simple and inexpensive as this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...one_Mount.html

will do the job.

And, of course, you don't _need_ to record in stereo. In fact, you might be better off concentrating on mono for your first 100 to 200 recordings. Then when you've absorbed the sounds of different mic placements and room positions and internalized them, you can add the second mic and learn how to position the pair.

As one who went from no recording experience to creating a solo guitar CD over the course of about 4 years, I was surprised at how much there is to learn about the simple act of putting a mic in front of an instrument and pressing the "Record" button. And how little the gear had to do with the whole thing.

Fran
A lot of wisdom in this post. =]
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber.City View Post
A lot of wisdom in this post. =]
Agreed - learn to walk before you run.

For those who have done the walking bit, I'd recommend trying an MS setup. I have had far better results than with XY for solo guitar or a guitar/vocalist.

The idea of sticking a pickup on an instrument like tis one is crazy, it will never sound as good as it (no doubt) sounds acoustically.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:48 PM   #15
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I was always under the impression that the X-Y Configuration was when the capsules were positioned Above - Below each other, not facing each other...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microph...ty_stereophony

http://www.recording-microphones.co....t-stereo.shtml
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:40 AM   #16
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true there smurf - the pic above btw was a google image search i did of 'XY' to quickly to show the general gist and where the sound source was in relation.


my 'modded' oktavas look like this when setup (found a pic)


i have a very tall guitar ! (joke, was for roomy vocals)

when i finally get a multi-pattern mic will definataley play with M/S and other techniques too.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:14 PM   #17
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No problem BenK-msx, I was just wondering!

Also, and I know all about berry bashing, but the M/S technique is one reason why I decided to go for a lot of mics instead of one good one. So far I have been happy with the Behringer C3 ($53 shipped) and using either a Behringer C2 or MXL990 for the Cardioid mic.

I have learned a TON about how just a ever-so-slight- movement can make a HUGE difference in the pickup pattern in a M/S setup, and this can only carry over when I go to get better mics....just an IMHO type of post....

And I dig that vocals setup!
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