Old 08-28-2006, 07:27 PM   #1
chip mcdonald
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Default M/S pre-master routing

Justin: I don't know if you know the value of this or not, not a lot of engineers do, but...

I'd like to have M/S routing capability on the master buss, pre-"2 mix/master" math.

I'm in the middle of something right now and don't have time to explain, maybe someone else here will.. but it would be really, really, really useful - and something I don't think any other DAW has the capability to do..

...but I PROMISE they will in the next iteration of their revisions, if somebody else thinks to do it... may as well be you, eh?
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:25 PM   #2
Art Evans
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Voxengo MSED VST would probably do what you want. You can use it as an encoder, a decoder, or inline. Coupled with some imaginative uses of track channels, maybe it's a solution?
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Old 08-29-2006, 09:23 AM   #3
chip mcdonald
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I want this:


http://www.dangerousmusic.com/s&m.html


on the master.

I can't get the Voxengo plug to work because it I can't make a "patch point" across the master - I would have to make a sub-buss sort of folder-group situation, which would be a big chore.
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Old 08-29-2006, 04:10 PM   #4
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This is a joke, yes? The plug-in I mentioned does for free what this hardware device does for $1700 (or whatever). The circuitry in the hardware device would only need to be extremely simple. As far as I can see it's either a practical joke or a con.
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Old 08-29-2006, 04:15 PM   #5
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Yeah, I thought I recalled those products from somewhere else - see http://www.audiomastersforum.net/amf...pic.php?t=2339 for some discussion under the title "Snake Oil, or Slick Sh*t?"
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:30 AM   #6
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Default Snake Oil

Yep thats the way to go....

500 Dollar mains cable is next on the list!!


Chip - in order to process in M/S you nned three channels of output or at leas stereo sides and a mono center - right ?

Doing that in a single plugin would mean using some native FX or sidechaing.....


Cheers

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Old 08-30-2006, 08:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa
Yep thats the way to go....

500 Dollar mains cable is next on the list!!


Chip - in order to process in M/S you nned three channels of output or at leas stereo sides and a mono center - right ?

Doing that in a single plugin would mean using some native FX or sidechaing.....


Cheers

M
MS is only two channels, itīs only when you convert it from MS to normal stereo, that you need an extra channel, and not when using a plugin to do it.
When itīs converted to MS, you can treat the mid and the side differently.
Itīs quite usefull, if you need a wider stereo, instead of just turning up the sides, you can Eq, some part of it, and then remove the same parts from the mid. Losts of fun can be done this way. Although a well mixed tune, normaly donīt need these treatments. Also try to compress the sides a little more than the center, quite interesting.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
This is a joke, yes? The plug-in I mentioned does for free what this hardware device does for $1700 (or whatever). The circuitry in the hardware device would only need to be extremely simple. As far as I can see it's either a practical joke or a con.
I think building a combination hardware M/S decoder> balanced loop > M/S encoder is a relative simple thing circuitry wise, but component wise you're talking about something like a 4 channel mixer. How many totally-transparent mastering-quality 4 channel mixers can you buy for less than $1,700?

Practical joke/con? Using M/S in mastering is a trick that has been around for decades....
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:42 AM   #9
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Art suggested Voxengo's MSED.
Here's the link: http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa
Doing that in a single plugin would mean using some native FX or sidechaing.....
The problem is I've got to come back into the master buss somehow and decode.

Read this on Voxengo's site:

http://www.voxengo.com/forum/freeplugins/1341/


I'd like to have that as a feature of the master, so I could (for example) stick a compressor on the middle as a loop without having to configure a kludge to make it work... and there's always the "I want it to stay 64 bits" question...
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:48 PM   #11
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what's your problem guys?


see the attached example project -> m/s processing all done on one track (with voxengo's msed)

- MSED1 (encoder) output 1 -> ReaFir1 input 1 -> MSED2 (decoder) input 1
- MSED1 (encoder)output 2 -> ReaFir2 input 2 -> MSED2 (decoder) input 2


just make sure you disconnect
- ReaFir1 input 2 and output 2
- ReaFir2 input 1 and output 1
(to only route one channel through these plugins which process the mid and side)

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Old 08-30-2006, 02:03 PM   #12
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REAPER includes the Kanaka M/S encoder/decoders, you know...
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:07 PM   #13
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Yep, they're pretty good, too!
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Old 08-30-2006, 04:00 PM   #14
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And the "Endorphin" freeware compressor has MS compression built in....
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
REAPER includes the Kanaka M/S encoder/decoders, you know...

No, I didn't (I haven't done a "real" mix per se yet, so I haven't dug through the JS fx)... 64bit I presume?

I'd still like an "easy" way to patch into the master without having to configure routing in a convoluted way...
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