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10-19-2017, 09:58 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Userfriendly Sidechaining
What happened to the more userfriendly Sidechaining feature that was removed from the pre-Versions some time ago?
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10-19-2017, 10:01 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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You mean drag&drop sidechaining? Still works. Just drag the I/O button on top of the plugin GUI you wanna sidechain, boom, done.
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10-19-2017, 10:06 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Nope. I was talking about having it even more userfriendly (as in Cubcase for example). Plugin pin/routing dialog having a "Sidechain" dropdown where you can choose the source track.
(I think in this case only the plugin receives the signal, not the whole track. - so you can do other stuff on channels 3/4 on the track without having the sidechain signal there - the sidechain thing is happening on a dedicated bus).
See https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=sidechain
It was there but removed :-(
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10-19-2017, 10:10 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I guess there were problems with it, then? Or it got removed because drag&drop is simpler than yet another dropdown menu?
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10-19-2017, 10:12 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I guess there were problems with it, then?
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I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Or it got removed because drag&drop is simpler than yet another dropdown menu?
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Current drag&drop thing is not the same as a dedicated sidechain bus which is independent of other track routing stuff! Cubase does it right I think.
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10-19-2017, 10:17 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Eh. This is really fine as is. You have up to 64 channels on a track in Reaper, so what if channels 3/4 are taken up by sidechain? There's 60 channels left to play with!
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10-19-2017, 10:18 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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But that's not user friendly. Independent sidechain bus doesn't need that (fiddling around with routing).
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10-19-2017, 10:25 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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How is a simple, one second drag&drop not user friendly, exactly?
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10-19-2017, 10:33 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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It's not just the drag&drop as explained (dedicated routing bus).
Example:
Track 1 (source 1)
Track 2 (source 2)
Track 3 with two plugins (Plugin 1 want's the sidechain from track 1, plugin 2 want's the sidechain from track 2)
This is currently not user friendly to set up.
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10-19-2017, 11:00 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Both plugin GUIs open, drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done? Like 2-3 seconds? Can even be done without plugin GUIs being open, in the extended MCP. Real easy.
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10-19-2017, 11:01 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
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Probably can be deal by script which name sounds like
'Add audio modulation from selected track using free destination sidechain pair for last touched parameter'
Quote:
drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done
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Looks like a good solution, if there is no already 3/4 pair, but yes, adjusting it is also not a big pain.
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10-19-2017, 11:05 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Both plugin GUIs open, drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done? Like 2-3 seconds? Can even be done without plugin GUIs being open, in the extended MCP. Real easy.
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Doesn't work. Both plugins get the signal from both tracks in this case.
I want to have this user friendly set up in a second:
Track 1 (source 1)
Track 2 (source 2)
Track 3 with two plugins (Plugin 1 want's the sidechain from track 1 only, plugin 2 want's the sidechain from track 2 only)
And: I don't want to have the sidechain signals on channels 3/4 of track 3 at all (because I wanna do other stuff on them).
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10-19-2017, 11:25 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
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so use additional stereopairs
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10-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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That's not user fiendly at all. Just put a multichannel plugin in front of the plugin to be sidechained -> requires shifting of sidechain channels to upper channel range. And so on and on ...
Selecting the sidechain source in the plugin (and leaving all track channels untouched) is user friendly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
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Last edited by Dstruct; 10-19-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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10-19-2017, 12:14 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
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It is possible to do with one script something like:
- create audio modulation for last touched parameter, use first non-used (check for other pairs in routing) stereo pair
- create send from selected track to track with focused plugin with stereopair defined previously
- autoexpand plugin track channels if needed
Quote:
Selecting the sidechain source in the plugin (and leaving all track channels untouched) is user friendly
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I don`t understand how do you expect to get signal from other track without any actions with destination track routing. Pass modulation signal directly to plugin ignoring REAPER routing system? Funny.
Last edited by mpl; 10-19-2017 at 12:20 PM.
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10-19-2017, 12:21 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl
It is impossible. I don`t understand how do you expect to get signal from other track without any actions with destination track routing.
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Should be done automatically in the background by adding more channels (channels above "64" that are not visible to the user) I guess. Not sure how Cockos had implemented it in their mockup/test:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
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(channels 3/4 are NOT used!)
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10-19-2017, 12:35 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
Should be done automatically in the background by adding more channels (channels above "64" that are not visible to the user) I guess. Not sure how Cockos had implemented it in their mockup/test:
(channels 3/4 are NOT used!)
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That would be useful, but one would still need some way to understand what is done in a prj when one opens it a year later.
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
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10-19-2017, 12:35 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 144
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I'd appreciate a list with all tracks listed as the potential SC source as well.
In my world, nothing is easier than doing it like this https://youtu.be/c743xEbsY1Q?t=1m22s
But it's a personal, philosophical choice
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10-19-2017, 01:03 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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The channel system is there, so how about helping the user make the most of it.
Right-click on an FX Chain entry. Two new entries. In this example we assume the track already has 4 channels. This is a first try.
"Sidechain - Create Receive on channel 3/4 from track -> submenu of tracks"
"Sidechain - Create Receive on unused channels 5/6 from track -> submenu of tracks"
That way the user is informed that there are channels in a track, and that receives are a way to get signals from other tracks in to the current one.
We start with the word "Sidechain" to make it recognizable to everyone looking for sidechain functions.
The complicated stuff is actually Reaper checking that the plugin in question accepts four channels, and then proceeds to take care of the pin placement, after perhaps altering the channel count of the track to accomodate the extra channels.
Example. Compressor side-chain.
- On a 2-channel track we right-click on the compressor plugin entry in the FX chain(or the MCP insert?).
- "Sidechain - Create Receive on unused channels 3/4 from track -> Some-other-track".
This function is only offered if the plugin supports 4 channels.
Reaper first ups the channel count to four. Then it creates a send from Some-other-track to our current track with source channels 1 and 2(default) and target 3 and 4. Then it sets the input pins of the compressor plugin on channels 3/4.
Last edited by airon; 10-19-2017 at 01:08 PM.
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10-19-2017, 01:25 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Somehow I don't see the menus with dozens (in bigger projects hundreds, or more!) tracks to select sidechain source very user friendly, honestly...
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10-19-2017, 01:28 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Could be an input field (track#) as well.
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10-19-2017, 01:47 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Somehow I don't see the menus with dozens (in bigger projects hundreds, or more!) tracks to select sidechain source very user friendly, honestly...
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say if one is needing a side-chain, they have graduated to understanding what one is and how they work/route so I agree with you.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-19-2017, 02:20 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
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I also rename FX, but probably not as arduously as I should
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
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10-22-2017, 12:29 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
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Quote:
Cubase does it right I think.
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No
the drag and drop reaper way is great. don't need another place consuming feature from other DAWs
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