Old 10-19-2017, 09:58 AM   #1
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default Userfriendly Sidechaining

What happened to the more userfriendly Sidechaining feature that was removed from the pre-Versions some time ago?
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:01 AM   #2
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

You mean drag&drop sidechaining? Still works. Just drag the I/O button on top of the plugin GUI you wanna sidechain, boom, done.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #3
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Nope. I was talking about having it even more userfriendly (as in Cubcase for example). Plugin pin/routing dialog having a "Sidechain" dropdown where you can choose the source track.

(I think in this case only the plugin receives the signal, not the whole track. - so you can do other stuff on channels 3/4 on the track without having the sidechain signal there - the sidechain thing is happening on a dedicated bus).


See https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=sidechain


It was there but removed :-(
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:10 AM   #4
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

I guess there were problems with it, then? Or it got removed because drag&drop is simpler than yet another dropdown menu?
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:12 AM   #5
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I guess there were problems with it, then?
I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Or it got removed because drag&drop is simpler than yet another dropdown menu?
Current drag&drop thing is not the same as a dedicated sidechain bus which is independent of other track routing stuff! Cubase does it right I think.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:17 AM   #6
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Eh. This is really fine as is. You have up to 64 channels on a track in Reaper, so what if channels 3/4 are taken up by sidechain? There's 60 channels left to play with!
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:18 AM   #7
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

But that's not user friendly. Independent sidechain bus doesn't need that (fiddling around with routing).
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:25 AM   #8
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

How is a simple, one second drag&drop not user friendly, exactly?
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 10:33 AM   #9
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

It's not just the drag&drop as explained (dedicated routing bus).


Example:

Track 1 (source 1)
Track 2 (source 2)
Track 3 with two plugins (Plugin 1 want's the sidechain from track 1, plugin 2 want's the sidechain from track 2)

This is currently not user friendly to set up.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:00 AM   #10
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Both plugin GUIs open, drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done? Like 2-3 seconds? Can even be done without plugin GUIs being open, in the extended MCP. Real easy.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:01 AM   #11
mpl
Human being with feelings
 
mpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
Default

Probably can be deal by script which name sounds like
'Add audio modulation from selected track using free destination sidechain pair for last touched parameter'

Quote:
drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done
Looks like a good solution, if there is no already 3/4 pair, but yes, adjusting it is also not a big pain.
mpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:05 AM   #12
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Both plugin GUIs open, drag&drop track 1 I/O on first plugin, drag&drop track 2 I/O on second plugin, done? Like 2-3 seconds? Can even be done without plugin GUIs being open, in the extended MCP. Real easy.
Doesn't work. Both plugins get the signal from both tracks in this case.


I want to have this user friendly set up in a second:

Track 1 (source 1)
Track 2 (source 2)
Track 3 with two plugins (Plugin 1 want's the sidechain from track 1 only, plugin 2 want's the sidechain from track 2 only)



And: I don't want to have the sidechain signals on channels 3/4 of track 3 at all (because I wanna do other stuff on them).
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:25 AM   #13
mpl
Human being with feelings
 
mpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
Default

so use additional stereopairs

mpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 11:34 AM   #14
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

That's not user fiendly at all. Just put a multichannel plugin in front of the plugin to be sidechained -> requires shifting of sidechain channels to upper channel range. And so on and on ...


Selecting the sidechain source in the plugin (and leaving all track channels untouched) is user friendly:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post

Last edited by Dstruct; 10-19-2017 at 11:43 AM.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 12:14 PM   #15
mpl
Human being with feelings
 
mpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,960
Default

It is possible to do with one script something like:
- create audio modulation for last touched parameter, use first non-used (check for other pairs in routing) stereo pair
- create send from selected track to track with focused plugin with stereopair defined previously
- autoexpand plugin track channels if needed

Quote:
Selecting the sidechain source in the plugin (and leaving all track channels untouched) is user friendly
I don`t understand how do you expect to get signal from other track without any actions with destination track routing. Pass modulation signal directly to plugin ignoring REAPER routing system? Funny.

Last edited by mpl; 10-19-2017 at 12:20 PM.
mpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 12:21 PM   #16
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
It is impossible. I don`t understand how do you expect to get signal from other track without any actions with destination track routing.
Should be done automatically in the background by adding more channels (channels above "64" that are not visible to the user) I guess. Not sure how Cockos had implemented it in their mockup/test:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
(channels 3/4 are NOT used!)
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #17
Jack Winter
Human being with feelings
 
Jack Winter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Should be done automatically in the background by adding more channels (channels above "64" that are not visible to the user) I guess. Not sure how Cockos had implemented it in their mockup/test:

(channels 3/4 are NOT used!)
That would be useful, but one would still need some way to understand what is done in a prj when one opens it a year later.
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
Jack Winter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #18
StrangeSound
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 144
Default

I'd appreciate a list with all tracks listed as the potential SC source as well.

In my world, nothing is easier than doing it like this https://youtu.be/c743xEbsY1Q?t=1m22s

But it's a personal, philosophical choice
StrangeSound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 01:03 PM   #19
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
Default

The channel system is there, so how about helping the user make the most of it.

Right-click on an FX Chain entry. Two new entries. In this example we assume the track already has 4 channels. This is a first try.

"Sidechain - Create Receive on channel 3/4 from track -> submenu of tracks"
"Sidechain - Create Receive on unused channels 5/6 from track -> submenu of tracks"

That way the user is informed that there are channels in a track, and that receives are a way to get signals from other tracks in to the current one.

We start with the word "Sidechain" to make it recognizable to everyone looking for sidechain functions.

The complicated stuff is actually Reaper checking that the plugin in question accepts four channels, and then proceeds to take care of the pin placement, after perhaps altering the channel count of the track to accomodate the extra channels.

Example. Compressor side-chain.
- On a 2-channel track we right-click on the compressor plugin entry in the FX chain(or the MCP insert?).
- "Sidechain - Create Receive on unused channels 3/4 from track -> Some-other-track".

This function is only offered if the plugin supports 4 channels.

Reaper first ups the channel count to four. Then it creates a send from Some-other-track to our current track with source channels 1 and 2(default) and target 3 and 4. Then it sets the input pins of the compressor plugin on channels 3/4.
__________________
Using Latch Preview (Video) - Faderport 16 setup for CSI 1.1 , CSI 3.10
Website
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 10-19-2017 at 01:08 PM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 01:25 PM   #20
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Somehow I don't see the menus with dozens (in bigger projects hundreds, or more!) tracks to select sidechain source very user friendly, honestly...
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 01:28 PM   #21
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Could be an input field (track#) as well.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 01:47 PM   #22
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Somehow I don't see the menus with dozens (in bigger projects hundreds, or more!) tracks to select sidechain source very user friendly, honestly...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say if one is needing a side-chain, they have graduated to understanding what one is and how they work/route so I agree with you.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2017, 02:20 PM   #23
Jack Winter
Human being with feelings
 
Jack Winter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,922
Default

I also rename FX, but probably not as arduously as I should
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040, etc. :)
Jack Winter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 12:29 AM   #24
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
Default

Quote:
Cubase does it right I think.
No

the drag and drop reaper way is great. don't need another place consuming feature from other DAWs
__________________
http://www.residenceemilia.com
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.