Alesis Vortex 2 Keytar

[insub]

I recently purchased a Vortex 2 Wireless Keytar to play live on stage with my band, but using VSTi is completely new territory for me. I need some advice on how to set up, etc...

But, a little back story:
I currently use a Virus TI1 Keyboard for most sounds and occasionally a Casio Privia PX-350 for piano. I'm really hoping to ditch the Casio & double tier keyboard stand because I've been promoted to front-man/lead singer. I'm going to miss the weighted keys, but I want to make a more entertaining performance for people attending our shows by getting out from behind a wall of keyboards. The Virus stays... for now (probably permanently as a backup for PC failure).

OK, here are the software I have:
Arturia Analog Lab 4
NI: Maschine 2 (all that's bundled with Maschine), Massive, Kontakt Player, Scarbee Mark 1 (70s EP), The Gentleman (piano), Vintage Organs, etc.
AIR AIEP3 Complete: Xpand2, Hybrid3, Loom, Vacuum Pro, DB-33, MiniGrand, Velvet, etc.

I'm not currently planning on using an audio interface. I can get playable low-latency from the laptop with WASAPI + onboard, so far. I might add my MOTU Audio Express if I start using REAPER for vocal FX processing while on stage.

Laptop: HP 8470P, quad i7, 2.7 GHz, 8 GB RAM. 64 bit Windows 10.

My standalone software seems to fall short in one way or another. Analog Lab basically has enough sounds for everything. It even has a "Live" mode for performing, but patch changes cancel all sounds for several seconds or more, and the latency is higher than my other VSTi's. Massive seems to work great as stand-alone. Very low latency, holds previous sounds after patch change, but it has no real instrument sounds like piano. Maschine seems to work pretty well, but Analog Lab crashes inside it.

Ableton Lite was bundled with the Vortex, but I have no experience with it. I'm not really wanting to learn a new DAW right now. I have plenty to do trying to create keyboard parts, sing & write lyrics, handle band recording, etc. Ableton might be the best way to go, but I don't have time to add that into the mix.

Basically, I want to accomplish this:
1. Have patches set up for playing 12-15 songs.
2. Launch a few samples here and there.

The Vortex has 25 presets. They can be tailored quite a lot. I think each preset can be two MIDI channels (upper, lower, or split). They can send program changes.

I was thinking of just setting up a project template with 16 MIDI tracks with different VSTis on each channel with the patches already loaded that I need. But I'm concerned that will crash the system if the tracks aren't muted when not in use. I read the sticky, but I'm still needing some hand holding. I'm hoping for some advice specific to the software I have on hand.

I'm still considering using Maschine Standalone as a host, if it will run stable. It handles WASAPI at really low latency. And, I have the Mikro controller which can load projects and browse patches without looking at the computer screen and without having to map anything.

I'd love to get to the point of outputting a click to the drummer and playing backing tracks, but my drummer and band aren't ready/willing for that yet. If you read all of this, thanks a lot!

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by insub

I'm not currently planning on using an audio interface...

Very bad idea. This is not going to work for Live playing due to too much latency. Computer-internal audio hardware is not meant for this.

Originally Posted by insub

laptop...

Bad idea as well. Laptops are optimized for long Battery live and hence not for ongoing high performance as needed to run VSTs for Live playing.

Originally Posted by insub

I can get playable low-latency

Very likely only without crackles and dropouts when using very few of the CPU performance.

Please read the sticky thread her for a general overvoiew on using Reaper in a Live setup.

-Michael (sorry )

[insub]

Thanks, Michael.

I don't need inputs at this point, but I have a MOTU Audio Express USB, if necessary.
I will deal with the hardware problems as they arise, but if I can't get REAPER set up efficiently then it doesn't matter whether the hardware works or not. I'm looking for a workflow solution, not a hardware solution. I don't plan on packing around a desktop computer, or purchasing a special-built computer. If I wanted to spend several thousand dollars, I would just get a Nord Stage and drop this idea altogether.
I DID read the sticky, and said so in the initial post. I will read it again.


What I do want to know is, how are most people setting REAPER up to play keyboard live with a band?
Do they use a single VSTi, a couple of them, or a lot of different ones simultaneously?
Do people setup all their VSTi's on separate tracks within one project?
Do they use sub-projects for different songs?
Do they setup separate projects in open tabs and cycle between them?
Which of these methods requires the least amount of computer specs and/or SWS action trickery?

I need to be able to have patches ready, from separate VSTi's, and be able to switch between them using the MIDI controller and without having to touch the computer at all. I typically only play one sound at a time, but quite often more than one during a single song.

I'm having the same problem with finding out this information for my other products as well. It doesn't appear that many people are performing live with any of these products. Most people seem to be bedroom producers with no need or desire to perform live on a stage with other analog musicians. Most people using Ableton LIVE do not even perform, even though that's what it was supposed to be designed for.

I used to work a little as a stagehand, & during that time I NEVER saw a touring keyboardist use a controller/laptop rig. 9/10 used a Nord something or other. Of course, that was some years ago.

Maybe I should stick with my 2-tier setup as it is. It works every time, and I don't have to fiddle with a computer, setup controller mappings, etc. But, I'd then have to use a MIDI cable with my wireless keytar which detracts a little from its appeal for stage use.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by insub

What I do want to know is, how are most people setting REAPER up to play keyboard live with a band?

Describing what I did to turn Reaper in an instrument (but not (yet) for non-instrument-alike stuff like "background-tracks") and daily use:

Do they use a single VSTi, a couple of them, or a lot of different ones simultaneously?
Usually a single (e.g. Kontakt), but in some patches multiple (e.g. 4 times DEXED)

Do people setup all their VSTi's on separate tracks within one project?
Usually a track for each patch, holding one or more VSTis and possibly some VSTs.

Do they use sub-projects for different songs?
At the moment I don't use a song management at all, just a patch management

Do they setup separate projects in open tabs and cycle between them?
I feel that using Tabs for songs contradicts the management of tracks for patches, but I might be wrong.

-Michael

[insub]

Last night I was able to use my Alesis Vortex 2 Wireless Keytar during a live show with my band. It went exceptionally well!

I decided to use NI Maschine as VSTi host due to their excellent browser capability. The instrument browser searches all NI products at the same time which is a considerable time saver vs browsing each separate plugin individually. On the other hand, it limits you to browsing the NI products. Other VSTi's have to be handled separately, even Arturia Analog Lab 4 which is supposed to be NKS compatible, ASFAIK.

The problem I ran into with Maschine was not being able to figure out a way to MIDI control the Master Volume from the Keytar. There may be a way, but I could not figure out how before the show. My solution was to run Maschine from inside REAPER and MIDI control the REAPER track fader containing Maschine.

The setup:
Laptop using the integrated soundcard and the WASAPI driver, headphones output to keyboard amp.
Keytar connected wirelessly to laptop (it uses its own Bluetooth dongle).
One track in REAPER, with Maschine as VST, set to all MIDI from the keytar, record armed, and track monitoring active.
Individual instrument patches in separate "slots" in Maschine, each set to different MIDI channel.

I only have about 8 patches set up so far. No problems running out of CPU since I'm only actively playing one patch at a time from the keytar. As best I can tell, the VSTi's don't use any CPU until they're being played. Though, they do appear to fill up the RAM. Task Manager showed 40% usage of the 8 GB of RAM on the laptop.

NI and REAPER report drastically different latency from the WASAPI driver. I don't know which is more accurate, but either way it's playable so far. NI reports a round-trip latency of 8.1ms but REAPER reports the latency as 0.4ms. So, maybe it's 8.5ms total since I'm hosting a host? I don't know. I play the keys and there is basically no perceptible latency, and I'm pretty latency sensitive when it comes to instrument playing. That's the main reason I'm so late to the VSTi game in general. I was never able to achieve playable performance before.

The WASAPI driver is set to: 96 kHz, 16 bit, 256 buffer.
The integrated soundcard has a 192 kHz setting available, but using it offered no reduction in latency vs 96 kHz as reported by Maschine (I didn't compare in REAPER). I don't need 24 bit at the moment since I'm not processing any inputs at all yet. I don't know if I'm getting any latency reduction due to lower bit depth since I didn't measure both options.

[dazastah]

Highly recommend using asio driver if possible .. I’d also recommend using audio card / with balanced out if possible ( with a Di ) or you could get a USB interface Di thing all in one ... radial do a USB pro stereo .. simple and solid and clean.
Other way you could do it
Is have each track as patches and you just track select through each song / part ..(prev and next track actions)
Plus side is your not using 2 hosts for plugins .
Track arranging is easier in reaper . / sizeable
Easier to set up a global fx tracks that all instrument tracks send to .. midi assign sends to them when track is selected .

If you can stay in reapers track system rather than working inside of maschine .. as you might as well just use maschine instead ..