Track Lanes Discussion

[deeb]

I thought it would would be better to leave daily pre releases discussion for daily testing and related issues, and bring here our wishes and thoughts on the feature in a global perspective.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

BUG

Selecting two items each from a different track without track lanes, and moving them to a track with visible track lanes, it doesn't move the item from one of the source tracks.



And if all tracks have visible lanes and i'm trying do the same this happens.



But this seems like a complicated case.

Originally Posted by schwa

I think that may be most appropriate behavior. If you're expecting both items to move onto the same track in a single edit, I don't think that should be the default behavior, because the items are starting on different tracks.

Originally Posted by deeb

it's not a thing that i would use , but same is happening importing from ME to lanes , just one is kept, which i think is not expected and following the same principle in Vagelis scenario: if user drags or imports them , why not allowing them to be dropped fully?

edit: i said "it's not a thing that i would use" but having a second thought : I would, items are items, they can come from everywhere (including different tracks or projects, ME , Finder .. it's irrelevant in user perspective) , and it's reaper philosophy of trying as much as possible to not constrain/limit the user but this is not happening in this case. And if for some reason, this does not match for the feature needs, maybe yeah you should not allow dropping, because by allowing i don't know which item was successfully dropped and so i will need to check and probably solo and mouse clicking , etc.

Same same WYSIWYG.

Bringing up this: i think there should be a solution for this. Multiple items should be allowed to be dropped coming from different tracks or projects, or finder / explorer / project / etc , as much as possible. It can be rendered tracks from another project , it can be anything really.

Maybe a possible solution could be : while dragging on the half lower part of a lane and if enough space allow dropping? on the upper part or media lane do this current behaviour? maybe a modifier? i don't know this could be very useful, is worth considering

edit: of course this should happen also in FIP too

[deeb]

Related with previous issue: Reaper should be aware when dropping into a Lane from ME / finder / explorer and if so, the options should consider if we want multiple items in a single lane or multiple lanes -- same has for regular tracks but this time specific for lanes:



edit: of course this should happen also in FIP too.

[Vagelis]

Just a thought regarding changing the number of lanes. Assuming that we have 5 items each on different lane, so 5 lanes as well.

Wouldn't it be better to show only the items on these lanes when we change their number if their number is less than the number of items?

Now if change from 5 to 3 lanes, we end up with 2 overlapping items on last lane.

Any thoughts and usability of current behavior?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Just a thought regarding changing the number of lanes. Assuming that we have 5 items each on different lane, so 5 lanes as well.

Wouldn't it be better to show only the items on these lanes when we change their number if their number is less than the number of items?

Now if change from 5 to 3 lanes, we end up with 2 overlapping items on last lane.

Any thoughts and usability of current behavior?

but the same kind of happens when dragging from multiple lanes into a single track type. It overlaps in a single track. In this sense is coherent.
Altho My preference tends to be: if only everything match allow me to drop (unless a specific option/modifier is used), .. otherwise is inviting for mistakes and messy stuff.

But In this case : at least reaper keeps track of their indexes, so we can always readjust number of lanes without loosing their index when they get back to stack position. So it's not so so so bad

Anyway maybe all depends on the feature or features that this lanes system will work for.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by deeb

But In this case : at least reaper keeps track of their indexes, so we can always readjust number of lanes without loosing their index when they get back to stack position. So it's not so so so bad

But what's the purpose of usability when items are overlapping on same lane?

I want to change to a smaller number of lanes to work easier with less items, but also to keep the rest items stored in other lanes for later editing.

If they overlap on same lane, i would delete them, and they cannot be stored any longer to other lanes

[ovnis]

It exists some actions to move items inside item lanes, but we can't drag&drop items with the mouse (which is far easier than activating an action with a shortcut) inside a track with media lines auto! It would be nice to be able to use drag&drop.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

But what's the purpose of usability when items are overlapping on same lane?

In general None for me.

Originally Posted by Vagelis

I want to change to a smaller number of lanes to work easier with less items, but also to keep the rest items stored in other lanes for later editing.

So if 3 items in different lanes (Item A, Item B, Item C)., and if you decrease from 3 to 1 lanes, you would like to see only Item A, right?

[Vagelis]

Yes, and items A,B with two lanes

Maybe someone has a better view, but I can't think of a purpose to keep the items of hidden lanes overlapped to the last visible lane.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by deeb

this behaviour is for "fixed lanes" in this DAW, and is interesting:
- full height while leaving a space holder for adding addicional items in the next lane, so it's no need to fix a specific number of lanes since it's adjusted accordingly on what is in the lanes.

@Vagelis: at your case, if you would like less lanes displayed you have reorganize and manage items (delete or overlap your self)

In same DAW:
- when Lanes are OFF, items in several lanes are overlaped in a single track(lane)
- when lanes are Auto it behaves kind of like FIP


unfortunetly for some reason i can't licecap it from my Virtual machine.

[amagalma]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

But what's the purpose of usability when items are overlapping on same lane?

Crossfades

I want to change to a smaller number of lanes to work easier with less items, but also to keep the rest items stored in other lanes for later editing.

If they overlap on same lane, i would delete them, and they cannot be stored any longer to other lanes

IMO, for that purpose one should not change the number of lanes, but the devs should add functionality to view only certain lane(s).

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by amagalma

Crossfades

Even when they have the same length at the same position?

How is that useful when they move position and overlap automatically by changing the number of lanes?

For this case there is also the auto mode (show overlapping items in lanes)

[amagalma]

I am not saying that what happens is useful. What I am saying is that allowing items to overlap is necessary for crossfades.


Again, imo, if you have 5 lanes for example on a track and you change the number to 3, then Reaper should ask you which lanes you would like to throw away. The items of these lanes should be discarded together with the lane they belong to... But that is what I would expect if this new lane system is supposed to be an implementation of playlists/track versions. It is not yet clear to me where the devs are heading to, though...

[Vagelis]

If we could save their state and then change the number of lanes without fear to lose something and recall them, i wouldn't mind if they were discarded.

Personally i find also nice at least with what we have now, if the items weren't discarded when we change the number of lanes, and to show only the items on visible lanes.
Because it could be useful to keep the items stored in hidden lanes. For crossfading i would move items to same lane.

Yes, i wish if we knew were the development is heading.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Yes, i wish if we knew were the development is heading.

This system might be heading for more then one feature - New FIP (auto), Fixed Lanes, Audible Active Areas of Lanes (swipe?)

Might be good to post here good examples (small licecaps) of other DAWs to make devs job/analysis easier and concrete AIMs.

[rst]

Originally Posted by deeb

This system might be heading for more then one feature - New FIP (auto), Fixed Lanes, Audible Active Areas of Lanes (swipe?)

Might be good to post here good examples (small licecaps) of other DAWs to make devs job/analysis easier and concrete AIMs.

This is how it is done in Cakewalk

https://imgur.com/a/xZtqJAy

[JRTaylorMusic]

I would like to help with this, since this is a key feature for me after 15 years of full time PT experience. Just installed the dev0319, and but I don't know how to catch up on the conversation without documentation. What is the protocol?

[deeb]

i don't know what you mean by protocol! maybe being nice is enough!

At the moment they are developing media lanes which we are not sure where it will end up.

Relatively to what they are developing related with lanes you can start using by right clicking a track and selecting: "fixed item positinioning" and tracks will now have multiple lanes.

There is also an option about "overlapping items in lanes" in option menu

-------

When you find a problem or recommendation on a feature which is being discussed at the PRE you can describe it or/and use a licecap:
https://www.cockos.com/licecap/ and upload to per example https://imgur.com/ and post it in the pre thread

[AZpercussion]

I don't know what thread is relevant... Just look at this my post: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...2&postcount=26

[fripholm]

For ages I have used this little script (and another very similar one) to decrease and increase the number of track lanes in Reaper to MANUALLY organize media items in my tracks:

itemlanes = reaper.SNM_GetIntConfigVar('maxitemlanes', 0)

if itemlanes > 1 then
  reaper.SNM_SetIntConfigVar('maxitemlanes', itemlanes-1)
  reaper.UpdateArrange()
end

Starting with the latest dev versions this doesn't do anything anymore.

It seems the only way to add a new lane is to move an item into the bar at the bottom of a track when "Fixed item lanes" is enabled. Can we please have an action to manually increase/decrease the number of lanes.

Or maybe there already is one that I just can't find?

[ovnis]

The vanished of media lanes auto is very sad.

When we don't want to convert a track to a track with fixed media lane, recording media can be annoying

Without auto mode (the track becomes fixed media lane so we have to remove it because we don't want to see reduced items and the grey lane - it takes place):



With auto (the track remains the same (not gray lane) and if items are not at the same place they have the full size)

[daniellumertz]

One thing that I wonder sometimes is if the option to enable it under Options > New Recording that overlaps existing media items >. Is the best place to stay.

I get why it is there. But if I was new looking to see how to change it I would search some kind of "overlapping items view mode" instead.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by daniellumertz

One thing that I wonder sometimes is if the option to enable it under Options > New Recording that overlaps existing media items >. Is the best place to stay.

I get why it is there. But if I was new looking to see how to change it I would search some kind of "overlapping items view mode" instead.

But option to create newly recorded items in separate lanes have influence for all tracks during recording.
And "Fixed lanes" option produces the same for a track independently.

[daniellumertz]

yeah, my comment was not much about the new fixed lanes.

I know it result in different record modes therefore makes sense be there, but it also is a different view mode of tracks with overlapping items.

I not suggesting that this need to be different I am fine the way it is, just pointing out that is a little odd.

The way it wouldn't be odd to me is the record options change the record mode only. Not the ˜view mode˜.
And there is a separete options for overlapping items (lanes or not lanes(?))

I am not requesting or need this to change is a nitpick to me.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by daniellumertz

I know it result in different record modes therefore makes sense be there, but it also is a different view mode of tracks with overlapping items.

Yes, both modes are record and view at the same time, but one mode apply fixed lanes for all tracks which recording, and other mode with one track independently.
I'm agreed, it's not clear enough.
And, honestly, I prefer to choose by myself what tracks need lanes. So recording mode to create items in separate lanes haven't sence for me.

Originally Posted by daniellumertz

And there is a separete options for overlapping items (lanes or not lanes(?))

In realise versions there is an option "show overlaping media items in lanes (when room)". But in these +dev versions it isn't.
It's difficult to say how Fixed track lanes can substitute this option.

[Vagelis]

A simple example in Cubase lanes:
*The parts with the color are audible, while the darker parts are muted
https://i.imgur.com/hZQ2lsA.gif

I just want this soooo much in Reaper... I hope the devs will add an option to mute the overlapping parts of the items in lanes. Still no clue where it's heading in Reaper but it would make a lot of sense if they would add this to the current state of media lanes.
It's a true gem for combining parts of audio and midi and it's soooo close to Reaper's lanes development, pleaaase Devs

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

A simple example in Cubase lanes:
*The parts with the color are audible, while the darker parts are muted
https://i.imgur.com/hZQ2lsA.gif

I am not sure, but perhaps new version of Cubase has it done in different way? It looks like you are using some old one.

[Vagelis]

6

Originally Posted by vitalker

I am not sure, but perhaps new version of Cubase has it done in different way? It looks like you are using some old one.

I haven't tried the newest version to be honest. I was using the old version and still do when i have to complete an older track for release. Is it closer to comping?
I love this way though,it's very flexible and has some advantages over comping.
Great for combining sounds, experimenting with rhythms and allows you to apply any possible edit to items individually.

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Is it closer to comping?
I love this way though,it's very fl

I don't know. I've never used Cubase (just tried it, but it was so unintuitive).

[FarBeyondMetal]

I haven't really followed the development of track lanes so my apologies if this is completely missing the point of what it is for, but I would love for there to be an option to only play the top lane and auto mute all the lanes below. Then we can create custom actions to select portions of the various lanes and bump them up to the top lane. This would of course have to respect selections and item grouping to allow it to work with multi track recordings also.

This would be semi redundant to the current take system but it would do away with the splitting and empty lanes which I personally am not the biggest fan of.

[vitalker]

You're probably talking about comping. This is not what track lanes are.

[strachupl]

Originally Posted by FarBeyondMetal

I haven't really followed the development of track lanes so my apologies if this is completely missing the point of what it is for, but I would love for there to be an option to only play the top lane and auto mute all the lanes below. Then we can create custom actions to select portions of the various lanes and bump them up to the top lane. This would of course have to respect selections and item grouping to allow it to work with multi track recordings also.

This would be semi redundant to the current take system but it would do away with the splitting and empty lanes which I personally am not the biggest fan of.

I think you want something like this:

Originally Posted by Embass

swipe comping script:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZHE...ew?usp=sharing

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by strachupl

I think you want something like this:

This is TOTALLY unrelated, but how did Embass get such clean and clear colours to his takes? Whenever I comp vocals, it's the ugliest and saddest of rainbows. This is just so clean.

[ovnis]

Inside rtconfig.txt you have to write "version 5" if there is an another version. You have to use item_bg.png with very transparent background and you have to use saturated colors inside the TCP custom colors panel.

[musicbynumbers]

As much as the fixed lane feature is great and preferred for me over FIPM for most things. I'm still sad that we've lost auto mode as I just found that quite fast to use instead.

I guess I could have fixed mode on all the time but the bit at the bottom loses real estate over several tracks.

Why not make it so whenever you overlap an item on a normal lane. The fixed lane bit pops up at the bottom so you could expand the lanes via it or, simply let the two items overlap/crossfade on the same lane (at which point the fixed lane bit vanishes again? Best of both worlds

[ovnis]

"I'm still sad that we've lost auto mode as I just found that quite fast to use instead."

Lots of people think the same thing. It's very sad.

[daniellumertz]

thay will remove the autolanes :O ??? Where can I read about it? Like I use it all the time, it might be worth removing depending of what they are adding, and their plans, but I still se much uses in it o.o. Like sometimes you don't want the same amount of lanes for the whole track but different for each chunk/cluster of items.

For exemple when you are comping with the first chunk/cluster of items having 2 items and the next chunk 4 lanes, having just 4 for all is wasting a bit of space.

But I think we have to wait to see where this is going for, might be a good thing even for the autolanes users

[Vagelis]

So what’s going on with item lanes..? It was long time since some new addition, i hope the development isn’t finished yet in this phase. I hope to see the automute feature as i suggested because now as it is, it’s no any different way of editing that could be useful
Having an automute for the overlapping items on different lanes would be the cherry on top.

[nikki5000]

Do you think there will be a native swipe comping function or do we all have to use the embass script?
If so, thats’s totally fine, however could somebody write down a little manual, so non-developers like me know how to use that script? Kenny Gioia maybe? 😄

[daniellumertz]

Originally Posted by nikki5000

Do you think there will be a native swipe comping function or do we all have to use the embass script?
If so, thats’s totally fine, however could somebody write down a little manual, so non-developers like me know how to use that script? Kenny Gioia maybe? 😄

embass script is very handy, although I would consider this topic to be on https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=241604.

I recommend my version of it
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=329