Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

When considering OSC, it might be a good idea to do a preliminary implementation using OSCIIBot to help PipelineAudio and others..

Someone could rather easily do an OSCIIBot script translating from (X32-) OSC to Midi (Mackie Protocol, or whatever CSI likes to see) (including high resolution handling). This can be made working in both directions to provide the appropriate feedback. (I did something like this accessing an an XR18 Rack Mixer via bidirectional OSC.)

Somebody seemingly is working on using OSCIIBot with an X32 for other purpose. Maybe some collaboration could be accomplished ...

-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=213935

-Michael

[Freex]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

+1 for jog wheel and radio buttons

+2 for jog wheel

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Any help on that please?
Seby

Did you read the Readme doc ?

What surface are you using ?

What .rst/.axt/.fxt files ?

Which Midi port ?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

+1 for jog wheel and radio buttons

All good requests, but I also have to get some work on OSC done

[ivansc]

A big +1 for OSC work! I am currently using/trying Touch OSC, OSC commader &c and none are exactly ideal... Would love you to turn your attention to something that would get me up and running properly on either my Android tablet or my Mac iPad.

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Did you read the Readme doc ?

What surface are you using ?

What .rst/.axt/.fxt files ?

Which Midi port ?

Like I said Faderport 8. I want to be able to use it a little like Studio One 4 can handle it, but in reaper.
Yes I read the doc, everything is setup, but don't know what to do to make it woork.Don't know how to create my own template, don't know where to find template.. etc...

Any video tutorial please?
tks
Seby

[poetnprophet]

Hey Seby,you say you have everything setup, what do you mean?

I don't have the faderport and don't use Studio One, so I can't really help with that. But I think there is a basic faderport 16 profile included in the CSI. You should just need to modify the rst/axt files accordingly to get some basic functions to get you started.

Let me know if you do or don't know what I'm talking about so far. Yes this can be pretty complicated, but really powerful once you get the hang of it.

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

Hey Seby,you say you have everything setup, what do you mean?

I don't have the faderport and don't use Studio One, so I can't really help with that. But I think there is a basic faderport 16 profile included in the CSI. You should just need to modify the rst/axt files accordingly to get some basic functions to get you started.

Let me know if you do or don't know what I'm talking about so far. Yes this can be pretty complicated, but really powerful once you get the hang of it.

That is my problem, I don't understand how everything work.

[poetnprophet]

Ok fair enough. I'll try to help. But you said you have everything setup, can you explain what you have done so far?

Do you have the CSI files in the correct Reaper directories?
Can you open CSI?
Have you tried to create a new PAGE?

Also, make sure that in Preferences, you DO NOT have your control setup in Midi devices for control.

Do you see the FP16 in the RST list?
For the AXT, you can use the MCU one for now, I think.
Don't even worry about FXT stuff yet.

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

Ok fair enough. I'll try to help. But you said you have everything setup, can you explain what you have done so far?

Do you have the CSI files in the correct Reaper directories?
Can you open CSI?
Have you tried to create a new PAGE?

Also, make sure that in Preferences, you DO NOT have your control setup in Midi devices for control.

Do you see the FP16 in the RST list?
For the AXT, you can use the MCU one for now, I think.
Don't even worry about FXT stuff yet.

yes to all. you know what we should do for that kind of stuff.. it's a skype or zoom meeting together so we can talk lol.

Seby

[poetnprophet]

Sorry, I don't have time for a call like that...maybe later tonight.

Make sure you have for your midi in and midi out, select your faderport8.

Ok next phase. When you are setting up your page, check the boxes for midi in/out monitoring so you can make sure you're getting stuff to/from the console and verify the midi info.

Also, in the # channels, you'll want to put 8.

If you have all that setup, you should be able to start using the surface: transport, track controls at the very least.

If not that, in the midi monitor window you should still get some values for in and out.

If not that, then it's not working...yet.

[JPP]

Hi, I've been following this thread for a bit and read through all the posts (whew!). Looks like a great project, Geoff, thanks for doing it!!!

But, I am having a problem installing CSI on one of my PCs (did successfully install on another). Staring with a new windows 10 install with the latest Reaper build, I followed the CSI readme:
- x64 dll in reaper x64 plugins folder
- the CSI folder placed in the Reaper Resource directory.

On this new PC install, CSI does not show up in the list of 'Control Surfaces' from 'Preferences->Control/OSC/Web->Add'. While, on my other PC, it does show in the list (but, unfortunately, I can't use that PC for Reaper work).

For good measure, I installed the latest VC++ Redist for VS2015, but, that didn't help.

Is there a log file that would help me find the problem/solution? Or any suggestions?

Ultimately, my goal is to get a X-Touch One and X-Touch compact working in unison with reaper, (eventually) along with a tablet companion for scribble script display using OSC. If I understand correctly, this combination is well suited for CSI, correct?

FYI, I'm new to Reaper, but, have done a lot of SW dev work, so, I'm totally unfamiliar with Reaper operation/terminology, but not unfamiliar with the tech behind it. Can anyone recommend a place to look for at least some of the actions available in CSI (in axt/fxt files) and which are supported?

Cheers

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by JPP

Hi, I've been following this thread for a bit and read through all the posts (whew!). Looks like a great project, Geoff, thanks for doing it!!!

But, I am having a problem installing CSI on one of my PCs (did successfully install on another). Staring with a new windows 10 install with the latest Reaper build, I followed the CSI readme:
- x64 dll in reaper x64 plugins folder
- the CSI folder placed in the Reaper Resource directory.

On this new PC install, CSI does not show up in the list of 'Control Surfaces' from 'Preferences->Control/OSC/Web->Add'. While, on my other PC, it does show in the list (but, unfortunately, I can't use that PC for Reaper work).

For good measure, I installed the latest VC++ Redist for VS2015, but, that didn't help.

Is there a log file that would help me find the problem/solution? Or any suggestions?

Ultimately, my goal is to get a X-Touch One and X-Touch compact working in unison with reaper, (eventually) along with a tablet companion for scribble script display using OSC. If I understand correctly, this combination is well suited for CSI, correct?

FYI, I'm new to Reaper, but, have done a lot of SW dev work, so, I'm totally unfamiliar with Reaper operation/terminology, but not unfamiliar with the tech behind it. Can anyone recommend a place to look for at least some of the actions available in CSI (in axt/fxt files) and which are supported?

Cheers

Are you running different versions of Reaper on the 2 machines ?

I'm using VS2017 to compile, might need that redist.

The available actions are in the .axt/.fxt files for now -- we're still pre alpha

[JPP]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Are you running different versions of Reaper on the 2 machines ?

I'm using VS2017 to compile, might need that redist.

The available actions are in the .axt/.fxt files for now -- we're still pre alpha

Thanks for the quick reply! VS2017 C++ Redist was the problem. Now off to try the two surfaces. I'm thinking the X-Touch One as MC (If anyone has suggestion for which variant please chime in, the XT1 has :MC, Reaper, Studio 1, all are MC versions, I believe) and XT Compact in native.

By the way, is there any value in my testing the XT Compact midi support to see if the rotary indicators are independent of the knobs (I know upon moving the knobs indications follow, but, don't know if I send the corresponding midi to the XTC if the display and/or value is updated in the unit).

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by JPP

Thanks for the quick reply! VS2017 C++ Redist was the problem. Now off to try the two surfaces. I'm thinking the X-Touch One as MC (If anyone has suggestion for which variant please chime in, the XT1 has :MC, Reaper, Studio 1, all are MC versions, I believe) and XT Compact in native.

By the way, is there any value in my testing the XT Compact midi support to see if the rotary indicators are independent of the knobs (I know upon moving the knobs indications follow, but, don't know if I send the corresponding midi to the XTC if the display and/or value is updated in the unit).

Cool, glad it's working !

The usual Mackie Control rotary protocol is implemented bi-directionally.

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

Sorry, I don't have time for a call like that...maybe later tonight.

Make sure you have for your midi in and midi out, select your faderport8.

Ok next phase. When you are setting up your page, check the boxes for midi in/out monitoring so you can make sure you're getting stuff to/from the console and verify the midi info.

Also, in the # channels, you'll want to put 8.

If you have all that setup, you should be able to start using the surface: transport, track controls at the very least.

If not that, in the midi monitor window you should still get some values for in and out.

If not that, then it's not working...yet.

Hi, here's a small video showing you what I did with my faderport 8 and reaper.
Maybe you could answer my questions in it.
https://youtu.be/o3UrDWHflJ8
Tks
Seby

[poetnprophet]

Hey Seby, great video and glad you are getting some things working. Ok I can answer some of your questions, and some stuff we have to defer to Geoff who is the developer.

Pages: this is basically like a profile that all your surfaces will be listed in, as well as their functions. I noticed you have a faderport single, so that can also be included in your [first] page. More on that later. As an example, I have on my page a Qcon, extender, a C4, and a Xtouch mini all in the profile, each with their own surface settings.

The RST as you saw will connect Functions (like read, latch, play, stop, etc) to button midi. Each button has a midi address as you can see in the monitor box. To map, you need the button midi message, and you need a unique function name. Most of the functions should already be listed, and even for the FP16 they should be similar if not identical. You shouldn't really need to do much there. The "Channel" sections basically takes all the faders/mutes/soloes/etc and has one section for all the functions there (instead of repeating 8, 16 times). I don't quite recall what Geoff did for the single channel sections, but it is specific to Faderports.

The AXT is where the function name (which is defined as a button press in the RST) is then defined as a Reaper action. Some of the actions are hardcoded into the CSI, I believe. Geoff can explain more (things like Play, volume up...). Some functions are defined explicitly as reaper actions, as you saw with the 5 digit codes. This is the real power behind this, as any button can now be turned into any reaper action. The MCU axt file already has a lot of the basic functions defined correctly: transport, channel functions, automation. This should all work already without modification.

The last is the FXT, which are mappings to FX parameters. We should hold off on that for now.

In order to understand SENDS, you first have to understand PAGES well enough to setup a second page to control sends as things get complicated from there.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Hi, here's a small video showing you what I did with my faderport 8 and reaper.
Maybe you could answer my questions in it.
https://youtu.be/o3UrDWHflJ8
Tks
Seby

Great video, you have most everything right.

Thanks @poetnprophet for the explanation, I'll just add a bit to what you said...

The .rst file associates midi messages with a name:

Read PressFB 90 4a 7f 90 4a 00

The only thing to clarify here is that the 90 4a 7f is the press and the 90 4a 00 is the release, looks like the FP8 doesn't send release for this button.

This is also used for buttons that light up -- 7f for on -- 00 for off.

The midi out 7f message is telling the Read button to light up.



As far as the .axt file, once again you have it right.

Look at the lines with numbers, notice how they all have "Reaper" right before the number.

This is simply the Action list from the Action menu in Reaper, take a look, you'll get it easily

Now look at some other actions, they have no numbers, they are implemented directly in CSI.


A page is just a grouping of control surfaces with certain characteristics.

For instance I notice you have a Faderport and a Console 1, you might make a page
with Faderport, Faderport 8 and the Console 1 and call it "Tracks".

You then might make a page called "Sends" that has just the Faderport 8 and adjusts the Sends.
In this case you would use the MCUSends.axt to map the control surface to Sends.

You then might program the Sends button on the FP8 to switch to the "Sends" page.

All in all you are off to a great start, ask some more questions

[JPP]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Cool, glad it's working !

The usual Mackie Control rotary protocol is implemented bi-directionally.

Just a test result with the X-Touch Compact:

As I read in earlier posts, the lighted buttons don't react well. But, in fact they do work under certain conditions.

Working: PressFB seems to work the best. And the lights work correctly IFF the button is pressed and released very quickly (as fast as possible). If pressed and released less quickly, the light extinguishes and does not follow the function state.

Looking at the monitor, it appears the message to stay on is sent upon the press (90). If sent upon release (80) it would work. (There seems to be a race condition that allows it to work when pressed quickly)

The other button types don't seem to work.

[MixMonkey]

Hi Geoff, did you get a chance to look at the missing master fader bug? (or is it just me?)

Also, the windows version of CSI could use a little TLC to fix the bug that stops everything working when any changes are made to the setup.

I've transitioned back to Windows with CSI (where I do all my commercial work) and it's a real struggle compared with the Mac version. Have to restart Reaper after every change and occasionally have to restart the whole machine as the USB/MIDI driver crashes leaving the devices unaccessible.

On a brighter note, MapFocussedFX is a triumph!

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by JPP

Just a test result with the X-Touch Compact:

Great to see that you also do tests using the "Compact". I gave up some time ago waiting for Geoff having solved supposedly more important issues, as for me this is just an add-on use for the Compact, that I daily use in my Live keyboard setup.

Great finding about the button-pressing-speed ! I suppose this will be very helpful for Geoff.
Thanks !
-Michael

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Great video, you have most everything right.

Thanks @poetnprophet for the explanation, I'll just add a bit to what you said...

The .rst file associates midi messages with a name:

Read PressFB 90 4a 7f 90 4a 00

The only thing to clarify here is that the 90 4a 7f is the press and the 90 4a 00 is the release, looks like the FP8 doesn't send release for this button.

This is also used for buttons that light up -- 7f for on -- 00 for off.

The midi out 7f message is telling the Read button to light up.



As far as the .axt file, once again you have it right.

Look at the lines with numbers, notice how they all have "Reaper" right before the number.

This is simply the Action list from the Action menu in Reaper, take a look, you'll get it easily

Now look at some other actions, they have no numbers, they are implemented directly in CSI.


A page is just a grouping of control surfaces with certain characteristics.

For instance I notice you have a Faderport and a Console 1, you might make a page
with Faderport, Faderport 8 and the Console 1 and call it "Tracks".

You then might make a page called "Sends" that has just the Faderport 8 and adjusts the Sends.
In this case you would use the MCUSends.axt to map the control surface to Sends.

You then might program the Sends button on the FP8 to switch to the "Sends" page.

All in all you are off to a great start, ask some more questions

Tks Geoff for the answers. Question, when I use your script with the FP8, is it normal that I don<t see anything on the screens of the controller anymore?. Can I do something about it?
With FP16, I don't see anything on screen, but with MCU, I do.

Tks
Seby

[SebyMusic]

Hi, still with my FaderPort 8, you told me to create a page Track with let say MCU.axt and a page Send whith McuSend.axt both with the FP8 as surface. But how to switch pages when I hit the send button on the controller for instance and then go back to tracks when I hith the track button?

tks
Seby

[JPP]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Great to see that you also do tests using the "Compact". I gave up some time ago waiting for Geoff having solved supposedly more important issues, as for me this is just an add-on use for the Compact, that I daily use in my Live keyboard setup.

Great finding about the button-pressing-speed ! I suppose this will be very helpful for Geoff.
Thanks !
-Michael

Sure. It's a nice surface, and hopefully will be an easy fix for Geoff. But, I can't speak to the difficulty of sending an update message upon 'release' rather than upon 'press'.

I'm still trying things with the XTC and overall things look great. Perhaps you know the answer to an issue I'm seeing: On start up, how is the first track synced to the first fader. I don't know the axt file operations and imagine it is something simple there...

For my setup the XT Compact and XT One seem to be quite good as a combination.

Cheers,
John

[poetnprophet]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Hi, still with my FaderPort 8, you told me to create a page Track with let say MCU.axt and a page Send whith McuSend.axt both with the FP8 as surface. But how to switch pages when I hit the send button on the controller for instance and then go back to tracks when I hith the track button?

tks
Seby

Hey Seby, the Track page will be different from the SEND page.
The Track page will have MCU.axt, all else should be the same (I think...)
The Send page will have MCUSend.axt. In this axt it should be defined that pressing the send button will go to this Send page. The actual action is NEXT PAGE, so when having only 2 pages it is like a toggle between the 2. I only have 2 pages so far so I haven't really thought it out further, haha.

[poetnprophet]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

On a brighter note, MapFocussedFX is a triumph!

What's this? how do I use it?

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

Hey Seby, the Track page will be different from the SEND page.
The Track page will have MCU.axt, all else should be the same (I think...)
The Send page will have MCUSend.axt. In this axt it should be defined that pressing the send button will go to this Send page. The actual action is NEXT PAGE, so when having only 2 pages it is like a toggle between the 2. I only have 2 pages so far so I haven't really thought it out further, haha.

But how do you program the NEXT PAGE thing, where? Cause on my controller, I have a TRACK button and a SENDS button, So I need to be specific I think on what page to load with wich button.
tks
Seby

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

What's this? how do I use it?

From Geoff:

"Just like you can use this syntax:

TrackOnSelection MapTrackAndFXToWidgets

you can now do the same for last focused FX:

TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack"


So in my C4.axt I just swapped TrackOnSelection MapFX to Widgets for TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack and now only the focussed (active window) FX maps to the surface.

C4 looks like this:

TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack

SlotUp Reaper _S&M_WNONLY1
SlotDown Reaper _S&M_WNONLY2
TrackL Reaper _6e6967db562a45f3b499d3b9daaefd60
TrackR Reaper _172419af88f947d1b7205e75478aa4b7

SlotUp/Down is SWS/S&M: Float previous/next FX (and close others) for selected tracks

TrackL/R is a custom action comprising:

SWS/S&M: Close all floating FX windows + Track: Go to next track

This closes the floating fx windows opened by SlotUp/SlotDown, when you use the C4 TrackL/R buttons to move to a new track. Stops too many FX windows staying open and making a mess.

Big advantage of TrackOnFocusedFX MapSingleFXToWidgetsForTrack is no more collisions on the surface, as only one FX is mapped at a time and navigation is by slot, which is how most people conceptualise the FX chain. Also, on a C4, all but the biggest (most parameters) plugins can be mapped in full.

There does seem to be a bug in the latest build that causes the master fader to disappear from the surface- be good if you could try it out and see if you get the same results- might just be me

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

But how do you program the NEXT PAGE thing, where? Cause on my controller, I have a TRACK button and a SENDS button, So I need to be specific I think on what page to load with wich button.
tks
Seby

Page change is by: (somebutton) NextPage

At the moment there is no direct page access- NextPage just steps through the pages (or toggles if there are only two) so you only need one button.

Regarding the Sends page, you can use (somebutton) TrackSendBank -1 and (someotherbutton) TrackSendBank 1 to step up and down the sends on the tracks.

The only way to tell that you're on the sends page is the displays changing to show the send assignments. Are the displays working on the FP8?

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Page change is by: (somebutton) NextPage

At the moment there is no direct page access- NextPage just steps through the pages (or toggles if there are only two) so you only need one button.

Regarding the Sends page, you can use (somebutton) TrackSendBank -1 and (someotherbutton) TrackSendBank 1 to step up and down the sends on the tracks.

The only way to tell that you're on the sends page is the displays changing to show the send assignments. Are the displays working on the FP8?

Tks MixMonkey, is there a way then to make the button light up or light off for that button, so if I have 2 pages, I will know...

tks
Seby

[SebyMusic]

Hi, Is there a way with the FaderPort 8 to show the actual bank selected in reaper?
In other words, If I have a project in reaper of 50 track and in the daw, I select the 34th track with my mouse, then the FP8 will go there automatically. And maybe it could even put it as the first fader as track 34, 2nd fader as track 35 3rd fader as track 36 and so forth...

tks
Seby

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Tks MixMonkey, is there a way then to make the button light up or light off for that button, so if I have 2 pages, I will know...

tks
Seby

I don't think so and if there is it won't reflect the page status- it will just toggle the light. What's needed is a "radio button" logic for controls that are mutually exclusive.

That is to say when one is enabled, the other(s) are disabled. Good for things like Pages (you can only have one Page active at a time) or automation states (you can't be in Read and Write at the same time.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Hi, Is there a way with the FaderPort 8 to show the actual bank selected in reaper?
In other words, If I have a project in reaper of 50 track and in the daw, I select the 34th track with my mouse, then the FP8 will go there automatically. And maybe it could even put it as the first fader as track 34, 2nd fader as track 35 3rd fader as track 36 and so forth...

tks
Seby

This happens automatically on my system, but if it doesn't, try mapping SetScrollLink to a button(see post #1776 on for info about scrolling) If you select track 33 on the screen, the surface should place track 33 on the first (far left fader)

There may also be some Reaper settings controlling the scrolling of the TCP and MCP that influence this as well.

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

This happens automatically on my system, but if it doesn't, try mapping SetScrollLink to a button(see post #1776 on for info about scrolling) If you select track 33 on the screen, the surface should place track 33 on the first (far left fader)

There may also be some Reaper settings controlling the scrolling of the TCP and MCP that influence this as well.

Hi, it does not seems to work like I want. I mean it does work, but only by bank. so track 1 - 9 - 17 - 25... only show on far left when banking. II Click in the daw after track 8. it's aligning it on far right most track.

tks
Seby

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

Hi, it does not seems to work like I want. I mean it does work, but only by bank. so track 1 - 9 - 17 - 25... only show on far left when banking. II Click in the daw after track 8. it's aligning it on far right most track.

tks
Seby

Is the FP8 the only surface defined in the prefs and is it set to the correct no. of channels?

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Is the FP8 the only surface defined in the prefs and is it set to the correct no. of channels?

I Have also a faderport (Normal 1 fader version) and a Console 1
Yes 8 channels

Seby

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

I Have also a faderport (Normal 1 fader version) and a Console 1
Yes 8 channels

Seby

Can you post your csi.ini?

[SebyMusic]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Can you post your csi.ini?

MidiInMonitor On
MidiOutMonitor On
VSTMonitor On

Page sss FollowTCP SynchPages NoTrackColoring 0 0 0
MidiSurface sss 8 Bankable 8 9 MCU.rst MCU.axt MCU

Page ttt FollowTCP SynchPages NoTrackColoring 0 0 0
MidiSurface ttt 8 Bankable 8 9 MCU.rst MCUSend.axt MCU

By the way I use Logic MCU in the FP8

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by SebyMusic

MidiInMonitor On
MidiOutMonitor On
VSTMonitor On

Page sss FollowTCP SynchPages NoTrackColoring 0 0 0
MidiSurface sss 8 Bankable 8 9 MCU.rst MCU.axt MCU

Page ttt FollowTCP SynchPages NoTrackColoring 0 0 0
MidiSurface ttt 8 Bankable 8 9 MCU.rst MCUSend.axt MCU

By the way I use Logic MCU in the FP8

Maybe try disconnecting the FP1 and the Console One as they’re not defined in the prefs. Also try MCU mode rather than Logic for the op mode.

[SebyMusic]

Hi, when I switch page with McuSend.axt, it shows only the sends for the first effect for all tracks.
In other words, I see on my fp8
first screen (Vocal) the amount of send to Reverb
second screen (Bass) the amount of send to Reverb
second screen (Guitar) the amount of send to Reverb
and so forth...

But if I have a 2nd send for a delay on each of those tracks, how do I access them?

Is it possible to see all sends for the selected track?

tks
Seby