Track Lanes Discussion

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

hey guys,
is there a way to implod multiple items on a track into different lanes (as it is with imploding into takes?)

AFAIK there's no single action to do this, but you can make a custom action like so:

[ferropop]

You can just razor them and stick them in the little area at the bottom of Fixed Lanes, and it'll automatically add more lanes no?

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

AFAIK there's no single action to do this, but you can make a custom action like so:

doesn't work for me, as takes change item lengths.

I regularly get a bunch of files of different lengths and timestamps recorded in another DAW which I try to "convert" to the lane system. Therefor I use "Item: Move to media source preferred position (BWF start offset)" to get them to their original position and then just wanna implode them to lanes for multiple tracks at once.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by ferropop

You can just razor them and stick them in the little area at the bottom of Fixed Lanes, and it'll automatically add more lanes no?

way too time consuming for 20 tracks a 10-30 items.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

way too time consuming for 20 tracks a 10-30 items.

isn't there an action to marque select convert to RE?

why marquee select does not work?

edit: @All this kind of things is not part of my workflow but just for the testing i tried and this what happens to me. What can i do to drop all selected (RE) items into the top track?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

doesn't work for me, as takes change item lengths.

I regularly get a bunch of files of different lengths and timestamps recorded in another DAW which I try to "convert" to the lane system. Therefor I use "Item: Move to media source preferred position (BWF start offset)" to get them to their original position and then just wanna implode them to lanes for multiple tracks at once.

i have this when importing. For your described use case seems to have option with this. no?

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by deeb

i have this when importing. For your described use case seems to have option with this. no?

no, I dont need them at the same time position. I need them at their original position which can be done by the "bwf start" action. But I need every item on a different lane.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

no, I dont need them at the same time position. I need them at their original position which can be done by the "bwf start" action. But I need every item on a different lane.

^^ohh complications

[schwa]

If you have a lot of items on a track and convert the track to FIPM, the items will be auto-arranged vertically. If you then switch the track to fixed lanes, the items that originally overlapped will be put in different lanes. Is that what you are looking for?

Perhaps simply setting a track to fixed lanes should auto-arrange overlapping items, the way FIPM does (and always has)?

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by schwa

Perhaps simply setting a track to fixed lanes should auto-arrange overlapping items, the way FIPM does (and always has)?

A dedicated action would be preferable imo. Otherwise it would also affect tracks with item crossfades. E.g. if you decide to add a layer or save a track alternative.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by schwa

Is that what you are looking for?
Perhaps simply setting a track to fixed lanes should auto-arrange overlapping items, the way FIPM does (and always has)?

That might work for some people and some cases. I do lots of recordings in different studios with different DAWs, writing my notes about which takes to use.
I need to import the (mostly multitracked) waves, set them to their original position and then convert them somehow to the lane system. I urgently need one item(=take) per lane and somehow sorted so the first recording goes to the first lane. Otherwise it takes too much time to do the comp as I usually do the first comp just based on the notes I did during the recording without even listening once again.
In most cases take naming in other DAWs follows simple rules (trackname - ascending take numbers or similar). So a "sort lanes alphabetically by (the first?) item in lane) could be useful". At least I need some kind of action that brings one item to one lane.
I think the "connection" between a recorded item to a specific lane is something that's still somehow missing in the current lane system. For many people it's super important to avoid messing that up. Perhaps we could have a "lanenumber" wildcard for the filenames.
Besides a quick way of renaming lanes would be fine. Something like: If you hit double click on a lane number to rename it (as it is now), Cmd+Enter opens the rename window of the next lane.

[schwa]

There is also the action "implode selected items across tracks into one fixed lane per track". Are you able to import the items to individual tracks in the order you want?

[Gass n Klang]

this action implodes all items to ONE lane. I need one lane per item.

Ah, there is an import option "same time position in fixed lanes on a single track". That helps! Perhaps we could have a "renumber lanes" option, in case some lanes need to be puzzled to get all items in the "right order".

[schwa]

Originally Posted by schwa

Are you able to import the items to individual tracks in the order you want?

This was the key point .. if you're able to get the items onto individual tracks, then you can implode them to one item per lane.

[Gass n Klang]

thank you! yes that works. got 32 tracks here, so it's no super fast solution but at least it gets the job done.

[nofish]

Since I didn't closely follow development lately:
Can the content we comp go to a different timeline position in the comp lane than the original material or is it 'locked horizontally'?
I.e. is something like 'comp to time selection' possible?

[deeb]

I don’t know and I am curious too. At some point I thought that was the unsync thing being called during pres. It could be something interesting with this approach but then thought that if I copy paste the source it will bring the same .. and is more what you see is what you get .. and probably easier to manage with same output .. I think ..

[nofish]

Thanks deeb.
Yes, copy/paste source would work too but 'comp to time selection' would essentially give us source destination editing which has its uses too imo.

[deeb]

Yep yep! Is a big thing and I see the uses, but afaics is a different paradigm since comping lane is the “destination” of 1 selected part or “target” of many comp sources. This source destination editing is many to many. Target and destination are the same in number of results. No? Maybe I am not explaining well ..

[nofish]

Actually I think it could vary, one to one (e.g. interview editing), many to one (e.g. comping vocals of a freetime song), many to many (e.g. comping orchestral recordings).
Specifics how to best implement this in Reaper would have to be worked out of course.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by nofish

Actually I think it could vary, one to one (e.g. interview editing), many to one (e.g. comping vocals of a freetime song).

Yep . Is a different perspective/workflow which can benefit some contexts - waiting to be suprised by experimenting things (like your vocal example). Lets wait someone confirm if 1 to 1 is possible in current implementation.

If I put in a muted lane the vocals ( which I hope is audible somehow) and paste it on a audible lane and move item content until finding the sweet spot - maybe we can achieve partially the same.

I just thought about this now. Anyone? Is it possible to hear a not committed RE of a lane source ? This would be important while comping, no? Otherwise is a blind strike. I am curious about this too now.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by deeb

I just thought about this now. Anyone? Is it possible to hear a not committed RE of a lane source ? This would be important while comping, no? Otherwise is a blind strike. I am curious about this too now.

This existed for a couple of pres near the beginning deeb.... i LOVED the idea, but they determined that Razor Edits were more valuable as a selection tool when comping. Which honestly makes No sense to me because we can already swipe to comp! Why have two basically similar selection styles when one could be used for a different function?

It was pretty amazing, if you Razor'd something during playback in fixed lanes it would override the comp lane temporarily. Very useful, sad it's gone.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by ferropop

This existed for a couple of pres near the beginning deeb.... i LOVED the idea, but they determined that Razor Edits were more valuable as a selection tool when comping. Which honestly makes No sense to me because we can already swipe to comp! Why have two basically similar selection styles when one could be used for a different function?

It was pretty amazing, if you Razor'd something during playback in fixed lanes it would override the comp lane temporarily. Very useful, sad it's gone.

Actually imo It sucked big time to have RE for the basic comping tool.
Now it's way more flexible a hundred times since we can readjust the edges of comp areas in lanes or in the comp lane when it's the only visible and many many more features that if we had RE for comping it wouldn't be possible...
But to be fair lately I ve been thinking that it would be nice to have RE as a tool to preview the muted sources as well.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Actually imo It sucked big time to have RE for the basic comping tool.
Now it's way more flexible a hundred times since we can readjust the edges of comp areas in lanes or in the comp lane when it's the only visible and many many more features that if we had RE for comping it wouldn't be possible...
But to be fair lately I ve been thinking that it would be nice to have RE as a tool to preview the muted sources as well.

Yeah I'm saying purely as a preview tool would be great. Currently you can swipe And use RE to promote bits. IMO that's a waste of Razors, because you can already swipe -- what's the benefit of having both? Using Razors as a quick override was amazing.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Yeah I'm saying purely as a preview tool would be great. Currently you can swipe And use RE to promote bits. IMO that's a waste of Razors, because you can already swipe -- what's the benefit of having both? Using Razors as a quick override was amazing.

yep i thought for previewing bits before comitting.

[ferropop]

Yup, the biggest issue is when Melodyne is on the track. Swiping just to audition different stuff means Undoing if you didn't like it, and Melodyne haaaates undos. It can take a couple of seconds every single time you undo, if there are even a moderate number of edits. And worse, you can easily lose edits with Undos.

Yes there are the lane header modifiers that let you temporarily select a specific lane, but then we are jumping around from the items to the lane header ... it was just so quick to swipe a thing as a temporary override.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Yeah I'm saying purely as a preview tool would be great. Currently you can swipe And use RE to promote bits. IMO that's a waste of Razors, because you can already swipe -- what's the benefit of having both? Using Razors as a quick override was amazing.

I think it's still nice to promote with RE whenever you feel it should be promoted, but before this, it could preview a muted source or override temporary other comp areas if exist without promoting them to the comp lane.
E.g search for other sources to comp or edit without changing the existing comps.

But except that, RE is also very useful as a selection tool for moving/editing: sources, bits and pieces or whole comp areas.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Yup, the biggest issue is when Melodyne is on the track. Swiping just to audition different stuff means Undoing if you didn't like it, and Melodyne haaaates undos. It can take a couple of seconds every single time you undo, if there are even a moderate number of edits. And worse, you can easily lose edits with Undos.

Yes there are the lane header modifiers that let you temporarily select a specific lane, but then we are jumping around from the items to the lane header ... it was just so quick to swipe a thing as a temporary override.

maybe if we could press ESC to not commit the RE could work, but maybe is a complicated thing.
Also they could make a new RE modifier exclusive for previewing and an action to commit the preview :P is complicated ...

[seb_revenant]

"Create comp areas for new recording while comping" does not feel 100% right.

When I record into a time selection using auto-punch, the item that gets moved to the comp lane obeys the area of the time selection.

I think that if the recording is stopped before reaching the end of the time selection, the beginning of the comp lane item should be trimmed to match the start of the time selection.
NOT like the third item in this GIF.

Or is there any setting for this I might have missed?

[schwa]

Originally Posted by seb_revenant

I think that if the recording is stopped before reaching the end of the time selection, the beginning of the comp lane item should be trimmed to match the start of the time selection.

agree.

[vseanv]

Situation: I like to record a whole bunch of takes when writing guitar solos (up to over 100) because the way I'll write is just record noodling over and over again until certain parts stick and start to form into a cohesive part...But I record every take just incase I do something unique during the take... anyways so TLDR that has led me to large take numbers with the new lane system...

Problem: I got to take 59 on a track and reaper suddenly showed all lanes at once, kinda glitched out and then crashed... now when I load the session back up... Reaper shows all lanes on the track but will not collapse back to the single lane view (the three little lines are grey'd out) and if I try to record take 60 Reaper crashes once I stop playback... can anyone else recreate this?



Is this intended behaviour? Are track lanes limited to 59 lanes? if so I think below could be a solution...

Potential workflow change/enhancement: usually I will record my first few takes with the old take system, and then when I get to the rough idea I'll change to fixed lanes and convert takes to lanes... I was surprised that when I want to resume recording on a new empty lane, each time I press record a new lane is automatically created... would it not make more sense adopt cubase's method of mixing Reapers old take system with the new lane system kinda like they use layers and track versions? Meaning, for recording takes, use the old reaper system, then use lanes as different edit versions and iterations of those original takes?

Workflow would function like this:
1. Record initial takes using reapers old take system
2. Duplicate lane to comp and edit leaving raw takes intact (just in case)
3. Duplicate this new comp lane if you want to punch in sections of the comp
4. On this 3rd lane you punch in the sections you want and it uses the old reaper take method.
5. On a final lane you do these final edits and finish up.

This way your takes are saved and contained and the lane system is not overwhelmed with lanes.

Otherwise Lanes should (imo) function almost exactly like Pro Tools where you can record infinite lanes, but they are not auto-created when you hit record so you are able to do punch ins on a lane without the rest being moved to another lane. In Pro Tools my workflow is kinda like this:

1. record takes with a new playlist (lane) for each take
2. comp those takes to a new playlist
3. duplicate this playlist for punch ins
4. do my punch ins duplicating this master punch in playlist each time I want to do multiple takes of the same punch
5. duplicate the master punch in playlist one last time and use that as a final comp and pic from the punch in which I like best.

How does that sound to you guys? And if there is a better workflow that is implemented with Reapers new lane system I'd love to hear it. I've been waiting for this kind of workflow in reaper for almost a decade so I'm really excited to use it and move on from the DAWS of yore and into Reaper full time! Thanks to Schwa and Justin and everyone else for all their hard work!

[vseanv]

Ok so I found the "record into lane" Function which makes my first workflow option (a la Cubase) doable... So then the question is... are fixed lanes supposed to only be limited in how many you can have?...I opened a blank session and recorded 62 takes before it exhibited the same behaviour as my main session... which was bugging out and showing all lanes on one track and then crashing... then when you load the session up again, the lanes are all showing and the button to toggle lane view is greyed out and if you try to record anymore Reaper crashes.

This is in Pre 10

[vseanv]

can someone point me to any kind of guide or explanation on the intended workflow for the new lane system?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by vseanv

can someone point me to any kind of guide or explanation on the intended workflow for the new lane system?

Happy to hop on Discord/Zoom for a bit one of these days.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by vseanv

Are track lanes limited to 59 lanes? if so I think below could be a solution...

In the project file there are 64 predefined lane names.

Hence it seems the limit is 64 (including comp target lanes).

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by vseanv

can someone point me to any kind of guide or explanation on the intended workflow for the new lane system?

I am sure that Kenny is working on a series of videos. But as Reaper v7.0 is not yet released, I suppose we will wait for those.
And of course a user guide will be released with V7.0

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by vseanv

Situation: I like to record a whole bunch of takes when writing guitar solos (up to over 100) because the way I'll write is just record noodling over and over again until certain parts stick and start to form into a cohesive part...But I record every take just incase I do something unique during the take... anyways so TLDR that has led me to large take numbers with the new lane system...
[img]https://stash.reaper.fm/47260/Screenshot%202023-08-

that's still a problem for me, too. I need to have every take on its own lane for communication reasons with the artists or the conductor. I'm working with score music a lot (classical music, orchestras, broadcast...) and write a lot of notes and hints in my score which take to choose for which part of the piece. If you record a 70 minute timecoded documentary soundtrack, that can easily add up to several hundred takes...
At the moment reaper seems to puzzle and move new recordings to lanes somehow unpredictably, especially if you comped between the recordings. This needs to be fixed in my opinion. There needs to be a possibility to record every take to a new lane no matter what and there needs to be some kind of window that shows the next (while transport stop or the current while recording) take number / lane number / whateever so we know which take is being recorded. In this regard I also like the Pro Tools workflow more where you just create a new lane to which you automatically will record the next take to. If you want to record to the current lane, just record. if you want to record to another lane, just promote that lane.

[vseanv]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

that's still a problem for me, too. I need to have every take on its own lane for communication reasons with the artists or the conductor. I'm working with score music a lot (classical music, orchestras, broadcast...) and write a lot of notes and hints in my score which take to choose for which part of the piece. If you record a 70 minute timecoded documentary soundtrack, that can easily add up to several hundred takes...
At the moment reaper seems to puzzle and move new recordings to lanes somehow unpredictably, especially if you comped between the recordings. This needs to be fixed in my opinion. There needs to be a possibility to record every take to a new lane no matter what and there needs to be some kind of window that shows the next (while transport stop or the current while recording) take number / lane number / whateever so we know which take is being recorded. In this regard I also like the Pro Tools workflow more where you just create a new lane to which you automatically will record the next take to. If you want to record to the current lane, just record. if you want to record to another lane, just promote that lane.

Yeah I agree, Pro Tools has just always had that right. I’ve noticed that the “record into lane” function is also currently a bit finnicky and will sometimes automatically turn off… or it can get unintuitive when it’s focussing on the wrong lane. I think atm it’s overcomplicated where it doesn’t need to be but just my opinion.

I think if lanes by default functioned like Pro Tools Playlists (and they were unlimited), with the addition of the new slip comping tool that’s been implemented (a la cubass/studio one) it could be the ultimate take/comp organizing feature.

The reason the pro tools system is so loved is that it’s a great way for storing and maintaining iterations as well as takes in a clear and concise way that even if you hand off the session to another producer they can understand work with.

I think it’s 95% there now, just needs some workflow ironing out and some bug squashing

[vseanv]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Happy to hop on Discord/Zoom for a bit one of these days.

That’d be cool, i’d appreciate that. I’m confused if we have this great new comping workflow with the swipe comping tool and comping items, but are only limited to 60ish lanes what the philosophy of how it’s to be used is. Whether that’s in conjunction with the old take system (as mentioned in my first post, or if it’s meant as a replacement for the current take system and is just as of yet not fully working… (aiming to be more like the pro tools workflow) OR if there is a 3rd philosophy that I have just not figured out.

[OLSHALOM]

For some demonstration I put together a script for viewing lanes preconfigured to a certain height unrelated to lane count:




In my opinion, this would be a very convinient way of viewing and collapsing lanes.

At least the native integration of the following action:

- Expand lanes of track to default lane height.
Default lane hide could be set individually by user in preferences.

BTW, could we please have the API for collapsed - non collapsed state of a track?