Track Lanes Discussion

[deeb]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Yes, I really agree too!
And the similar logic for Edit lanes.
It's always weird for me when I see raw recorded material on E lanes, it's difficult to distinguish which is which in that lanes.

Long time ago I suggested this. I still think it would be better.

Originally Posted by deeb

I thought I d share this. And looking for your thoughts and opinions.

If we could have 2 different views: one for layering and another for comping working like this:



What would be the pros and cons? Would you like it or not?

I think I would like because would look more organized and easier to follow, and a clear distinction between layer and (comp + comp material). But maybe is too late or not worth.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by deeb

Long time ago I suggested this. I still think it would be better.

Sorry, deeb, I don't see how it's related. You are talking about special mode for layering, but it's different thing.
And also I don't see on your picture what is not designed yet.

[deeb]

^^ understand! The point would be 2 views: 1 with layering material including comps. Another view for editing material from a specific comp.

when I say view is just means is a view of what is currently displayed on the project of a specific track.

In the picture: first part is showing the layer view which can include comps and audio material. second part of the picture is the view for editing a specific comp in this case - comp 2.

In this way while editing a comp (second view) you don’t have any other comp in it. Only material which is used on a specific comp. Comps can be layered. Comps are edited in a specific view.

IMO it would be more clear workflow. Anyway thanks

[AZpercussion]

So do I understand right, that you are suggesting a tree structure where there can be several comp lanes in a track with their own children lanes?

If so, I think it's not as flexible as current structure, because audio in children lanes can not move easily to another comp folders and that way we'll get duplicated source lanes.

Or maybe you want just hide other comp lanes while the comping is active?

Hmm, anyway, I can't figure out how it can help us with Edit lanes.

I think that Wayland's idea to automatically proctect from recording (and manually if needs) some lanes would work perfect.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

So do I understand right, that you are suggesting a tree structure where there can be several comp lanes in a track with their own children lanes?

If so, I think it's not as flexible as current structure, because audio in children lanes can not move easily to another comp folders and that way we'll get duplicated source lanes.

Yes, maybe you getting it right. Well we could duplicate/copy comps and copy paste Comps material. Not as flexible by drag and drop comp material only, but more structured and organised IMO - in the end more flexible because of that. More easy to mess and try things while keeping it clean, logical and structured.

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Hmm, anyway, I can't figure out how it can help us with Edit lanes.

A comp is composed of several Audio/midi materials, and a comp it self is a single layer. In the layer view we would layer "layers" and while editing a comp there are no other comps and no other comps material in the view - unless we copy/paste/duplicate them.

I think this would help not just editing lanes, but help the feature has a whole for both layering and comping - better logical and visual organisation for Layering and Comp AFAICS.

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

I think that Wayland's idea to automatically proctect from recording (and manually if needs) some lanes would work perfect.

In current paradigma maybe that's the only solution, but does not enrich the feature as a whole in the sense as i described. There would be no need for that if what i was suggesting was implemented.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by deeb

In current paradigma maybe that's the only solution, but does not enrich the feature as a whole in the sense as i described. There would be no need for that if what i was suggesting was implemented.

There still will need for that, because we need to protect from recording not only Comp lanes, marked C1 (2,3..), but also Edit lanes, marked E1 (2,3..).


Here a remark:
It has not to look for exact lane name to decide what lane should be protected.
There should be a record-protected mode for a lane and it should be ON if the lane created as a Comp or Edit lane.

[Wayland]

Hi there Dear schwa!

Im sorry to bother you, with a lot of messages.
I hope all of us here just to appreciate amazing job Reaper Team is doing with each new version.
And our suggestions and workflow experience combined could bring the best expirience for every user.

So i don't want to overload current requests, but one thing dont let me go.

I was not using Edit Lanes at all, discussed earlier in this topic, so i googled. And found some forum topic about edits in comp lane and syncing it into source lanes (obviously loosing original source)

And there was post from schwa

"If you're talking about an editing mode where edits in the comping lane flow backwards to the source lanes, that could get messy fast. For example if you had a long take in the source lane with multiple comp areas, and you slip-edit one of those areas on the comping lane, all of the other comp areas that depend on that source item would also be affected. So your edit in the comping lane would affect the item you are editing, the source item, and potentially other items in the comping lane that you can't even see."

OMG, thats exactly what i am talking about several times, but with MIDI
Im totally lost and cant understand - why MIDI in comping lane is POOLED by default, and i cant find any setting to disable it?

All i want - is to comp my midi and edit it to my taste - timing, velocity, deleting notes, fixing and adding notes. WIthout ruining my source.

Reaper 7.17 and still same problem.

ALso i just tested this once again, and i feel totally confused - why MIDI editor shows me ALL lanes at once, when i click MIDI item only at one Lane.
ESPECIALLY if only one LANE is active?

In fact - MIDI in lanes doesent represent as separate tracks. And thats confusing.

1) Lasso select absolutely doesent work in this scenario, as it selects both active Take/Comping notes, and original Lane notes.

2) I have no button to make visible the Whole comping lane. In my small example i have 3 midi comping areas, and thats 3 separate MIDI lines in my List.
Yeah they have C1 index, but i cant see the way to keep visible all of C1 midi at once. If it's 85 comping areas, thats gonna be 85 lines i need to click manually to keep em visible and hide all other lanes and items?

MY SUGGESTION

1) I think we need to have SUBFOLDERS according to Fixed LANES

And instead of this mess of all MIDI items



Have smth like this



2) My User logic tells me - if i click MIDI item on any track or lane - i would like to see ONLY this lane with all MIDI content

So if i click ITEM on Lane 1 - i would like to see only midi in Lane 1, and all other Lanes invisible by default.

I understabd some users could use Lanes to keep separate midi parts (Kick and snare for example)
In this scenario clicking MIDI item in ACTIVE lane - makes Visuall in MIDI EDITOR - all Active lanes

Example

Lane Status
C1
1 - Active (Yellow Circle)
2
3 - Active (Yellow Circle)

Clicking C1 lane MIDI item: opens MIDI editor with only C1 subfolder visible with all midi items in this lane

Clicking 1 lane MIDI item: opens MIDI editoe with 1 AND 3 midi subfolders visible

Clicking 2 lane MIDI item: opens MIDI editor with only 2 subfolder visible with all midi items in this lane

Clicking 3 lane MIDI item: opens MIDI editoe with 1 AND 3 midi subfolders visible

This way if i need to look closer or edit any specific Line - i am not messed with ALL midi items in ALL lanes killing Lasso usability.
Just imagine what a hell is on the screen if i have 10-15 midi drums Lanes

If user MANUALLY activate several Lanes - ok, you want to see all ACTIVE lanes at once.
In every other case - Looking at one Lane at a time is much more suitable for default.


3) And finishing MIDI Fixed Lanes

I recorded 12 midi drum takes.
Comp them in C1
UNPOOLED all Midi in C1
Edit final midi take time and velocity

Now i have - One final Active playing take

I export MIDI to my clients. And they get MIDI file with every kick hitting 12 times almost same hit.

What MIDI export will user expect from this situation?



OF COurse like with AUDIO comping - only Active Take notes.
Exactly like Reaper is playing. I have my final Performance. I have my original Takes in the Closet just in case.

Imagine exporting Vocal track with comping and hearing Choir from 15 takes?

But in case with MIDI we have this as export result.



My clients mixing engeneer was mad having every drum HIT 15 times
And i looked as totall unprofessional

Iam totally sure MIDI export should contain only active Lanes to sound exactly like in Reaper before export

If in some scenario user wants ALL lanes to be exported in one MIDI - he could activate all Lanes and export.
But now if i need export my final active MIDI - i need to copy Comping lane in new track.


I am sorry for big post, but i think it's real important. I spend a lot of time and effort to give best representation of every case.

Hope to hear your thoughts on all 3 MIDI topics.
im extremly sorry if i miss some obvious workarounds in my scenarios.
Pls let me know if there is already answers or options to solve this issues
Thanks a lot!

[dunego]

Last updates messed up with the lanes behavior that was perfect to me. Anyone know how can I (if it's possible) configure this to be default:

- that option "new record adds lanes in layers" have this comma "multiple layers plays at once" but I want to new records to add lanes in layers, and also don't make layers plays at once. also make that default (I have to turn this on to every single track now). all this was perfect by default on a few updates earlier.

- when there was no comping if I selected a take on a lane the lane was automatically selected.

I appreciate your help.

[schwa]

It sounds like you want the option "overlapping recording behavior > add lanes (new lanes play exclusively)". If you set that option in the options menu, it should affect all tracks, unless those tracks already have "recording > override project recording behavior" set in the lane button right-click menu.

You can set the recording behavior for all new tracks by opening "preferences > project > track/send defaults" and clicking on the "fixed lane defaults" button.

Originally Posted by dunego

when there was no comping if I selected a take on a lane the lane was automatically selected.

I'm not aware that this behavior was ever supported.

[Vorticist]

I appreciate all the effort going into fixed lanes at the moment, coming from Pro Tools I use them all the time and in particular ways. Here's one of the behaviours I've noticed that would be great to have a closer look at:

If I shift+click items ('add items to selection' in mouse modifiers) on multiple tracks to select a range of items, if those tracks have alternate/hidden lanes, the items on those lanes will be selected as well. If I use marquee selection, it only selects the visible items.

This has caused me to lose a bunch of items on hidden lanes because I would be shift+clicking and glueing edited items and accidentally including items from the hidden lanes in the glue operation - also causing the glued audio to be either +6db in volume or phasey because of slight differences to the hidden items.

First using shift+click to select items on the two tracks and hitting glue, and then undoing and repeating the process but with marquee select.

[Vorticist]

Another one I noticed is freezing tracks with lanes behaves differently if the lane view is expanded or not - if alternate lanes are visible, freeze works correctly.

If alternate lanes are hidden, the frozen audio is placed on an alternate lane and you can still switch between active lanes. This makes it so I have to remember to expand the view of any tracks I want to freeze or else I'll just have to unfreeze and redo it.

[pentecost]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

There still will need for that, because we need to protect from recording not only Comp lanes, marked C1 (2,3..), but also Edit lanes, marked E1 (2,3..).


Here a remark:
It has not to look for exact lane name to decide what lane should be protected.
There should be a record-protected mode for a lane and it should be ON if the lane created as a Comp or Edit lane.

the inability to protect comp/edit lanes from recording and lane reduction is biting me almost every day at this point. very frustrating.

another issue that i'm running into and would like to confirm here before bug reports:
changes made to spectral edits on source items don't automatically update in the comp lane. i'm having to cycle back and forth from a different take every time i want to hear any changes.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by pentecost

the inability to protect comp/edit lanes from recording and lane reduction is biting me almost every day at this point. very frustrating.

yes...

[Wayland]

Hi there!

v7.19

Great thanks to MIDI Pool option!

Bug Report

IN - Comping MIDI Items creates pooled items OFF

MIDI in Comping Lane Looks different from source Lane
And it sounds different (GIF attached in both modes)

I cant recreate it in test project with test midi in a few attempts
But it definitely occurs with midi recorded several month ago in older Reaper version

Here is RPP file with only midi track recorded in Lanes

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9rlgz...=u1df9oiq&dl=0



UPD

Looking at whole MIDI i noticed - comping in NO POOL mode somehow alters length or position of Comping Lane
Not only selected part, but the one already in Comping Lane too
Hope it helps

[Wayland]

BUG REPORT 2

Even with - Crossfade Comp Areas OFF

Sometimes creating comping area with mouse adds Fade or crossfade

And occasionally sync betwin MIDI and Audio tracks in group fail.

Sorry for long GIF but at the very end sync is lost without any specific operation order. Just comping around and moving comping areas borders.

Thats very confusing when sometimes sync is lost and midi plays different take than audio and all comping and selection unusable now, so user had to manually notice it and delete all comping that is off sync and recreate it.

To avoid any comping issues i have all auto crossfade options OFF

Auto crossfade OFF
Crossfade on split OFF
Crossfade Comp Areas OFF

But still it happens from time to time

[deeb]

I don't have any other place to put this has a request that makes sense. So i place it here.

Would love to have P_EXT per lane and ability make visible/invisible lanes Maybe on API level only.

This way i think we had enough functionality to make some great things with lanes. Example: individual lanes versioning system, individual lanes notes and whatever devs/scripters feel like doing.

[Wayland]

Hi there!

Reaper 7.22

Bug Report

Fixed Lane MIDI comping - When "Comping MIDI items creates pooled copies" is OFF

Midi comping is out of sync with original Midi Lanes

Seems like Comping Lane is 1 bar earlier.

[ovnis]

Actually, with the TCP reduced mode we can't handle fixed tracks. It's very sad because there is the space available to add buttons.

[ovnis]

Mouse modifiers over fixed tracks, to use the same functions as the fixed tracks buttons, would be great.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Wayland

Hi there!

Reaper 7.22

Bug Report

Fixed Lane MIDI comping - When "Comping MIDI items creates pooled copies" is OFF

Midi comping is out of sync with original Midi Lanes

Seems like Comping Lane is 1 bar earlier.

Can you share a minimal project that reproduces this issue, please?

[Wayland]

Originally Posted by schwa

Can you share a minimal project that reproduces this issue, please?

Literally every MIDI lane tracking i try has this issue.
So i create test session for you with this problem

I just tried fresh portable install of 7.22
ANd same workflow works correct

But my simple TEST session seems to have same problem when open in fresh portable reaper.

I suppose this problem has to be connected with my config.
From other hand i cant imagine any settings or script, that could ruin specifically Midi comping with POOL OFF

Here is link for test session i've done in my config having a problem.
1) create track
2) activate Lanes
3) record 3 midi takes

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z647u...=zk6zxkmo&dl=0

[schwa]

Ah, the issue only appears when the MIDI item is unlooped. It should work properly when the item is set to loop. Fixing!

[Wayland]

Oh, great to hear the problem is found!

Can we discuss few more aspects with MIDI in fixed lanes.

1) Just checked out on my test session - MIDI export of Fixed Lane still exports ALL lanes as active notes.



While in session only one LANE is active and playing, and MIDI editor shows other lanes notes as inactive (grey color)

I suppose only active lane(s) should be exported as MIDI.
Selected result in comping lane.
Or several active lanes if they used for separate parts, instruments etc

The same way as exporting Audio with fixed Lanes doesent contains inactive lanes.

Second argument is - in usuall track MIDI item user could disable(mute) some notes
In other words make them inactive. They are shown in MIDI editor, they are grey colored. And they are not included in MIDI on export.

That confirms idea about exporting only active midi notes in active lane.

2) Thats close topic. Showing FIXED LANE in midi editor.
As i mentioned earlier - by default it shows ALL MIDI items from ALL LANES wich is confusing.
And i already has a post in this thread - we didnt even have option to Enable/disable/Show/Hide the whole Lane in Track Inspector. Only list of all items.

My Request is -
a) Add Lanes Subfolder in track Inspector (Now its Only prefix in ITEM name) that will help to show/hide whole lanes in one click.




b) Maybe we can have an option to open in MIDI editor only one Lane (and HIDE others)

Scenario 1: I want to open in midi editor my Comping Lane to fix some note length, time and velocity. And i need only active notes on my screen. So double clicking on MIDI item in active lane instead of


looks like



Scenario 2: Clicking on inactiv Lane midi item - opens only this lane MIDI notes. Logic is - to have possibility to Look at and check and fix exact Lane (Take)


Overall idea - In scenario whith MIDI Fixed Lanes as Takes, user almost always need to check out individual Lanes performance OR Comping performance. And almost never need to see the mess from ALL items at once.

Thanks a lot!

[Edgemeal]

Action 42596
Tracks: Implode selected items across tracks to one fixed lane track

The action really comes in handy, but doesn't always work as expected,
For example if I select items like this,


when I run the implode action I get this,


I was expecting this,


Win10 , REAPER v7.22_x64

[deeb]

The implode results appear on the selected track? If so is kind of expectable, no? Edit: maybe has nothing to do with selected track , but only the first track with selected items, which still makes kind of sense. If there would be an action “ Tracks: Implode selected items across tracks to fixed lanes on new track” would be less ambiguous . I am not on the computer , Will try later and 🤔