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Old 01-22-2007, 08:06 PM   #1
Tallisman
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Default Multi I/O VSTi & Folder tracks (SOLVED)

Greetings and thanks for a really interesting application. I am considering alternatives to Cubase SX3.1.1 and Reaper is killer.

I was going through the manual and the multi channel vsti i/o example, and I ran into a snag, sort of.

I created a track and loaded Stylus RMX (and configured it to serve audio on all 16 channels. Used the Matrix to configure the routings, exactly as in the manual, and no sound...

I started again and this time success. So I compared the 2 projects, and low and behold, in the first, somewhere along the line, and had made the original track (the one holding the VSTi) a folder track and the following 8 tracks (the ones used to route the audio coming from stylus) were contained within that folder track:

tr1 [VSTi RMX][folder track]|
---tr2 [RMX out A]
---tr3 [RMX out B]
---tr4 [RMX out C]
---tr5 [RMX out D]
---tr6 [RMX out E]
---tr7 [RMX out F]
---tr8 [RMX out G]
---tr9 [RMX out H]

Ok, so something about the above arrangement killed the routing connections. Bummer, becaus it allowd for a reall neat and tidy project. The set-up below works:

tr1 [VSTi RMX]
tr2 [RMX out A]
tr3 [RMX out B]
tr4 [RMX out C]
tr5 [RMX out D]
tr6 [RMX out E]
tr7 [RMX out F]
tr8 [RMX out G]
tr9 [RMX out H]

So then I was very pleased to see that Reaper supports drag-n-drop of midi data from Stylus! PRO toots just began to support this (it only took 7 versions!) So I began to drage the midi data... I figured "sweet! put the data for each slot in rmx onto its's corresponding out track, rout it's midi sent back the the RMX vsti holder track (tr1) and we're still pretty neat and tidy. It looked like this:

tr1 [VSTi RMX]
tr2 [RMX out A]|[midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch1]
tr3 [RMX out B]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch2]
tr4 [RMX out C]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch3]
tr5 [RMX out D]|[midi data... to tr1-ch4]
tr6 [RMX out E]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch5]
tr7 [RMX out F]|[midi data... midi... to tr1-ch6]
tr8 [RMX out G]|[midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch7]
tr9 [RMX out H]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch8]

Damn it. No Sound! It still played if I pressed play on the Stylus RMX VSTi's GUI, so the audio routing still worked. But If I pressed play on the project transport, no sound, so again, the midi routing was broken (i think). I could not get the midi data from tr2 to send itself to tr1 to triger the RMX plugin and return the audio on tr2. So i had to create an aditional 8 tracks to make it work. So the working layout looks like this: track on contains the VSTi; 2-9 route to RMX outputs A-H; 10-17 rout the midi data back to track 1, controling the sound in RMX:

tr1 [VSTi RMX]
tr2 [RMX out A]
tr3 [RMX out B]
tr4 [RMX out C]
tr5 [RMX out D]
tr6 [RMX out E]
tr7 [RMX out F]
tr8 [RMX out G]
tr9 [RMX out H]
tr10 [midi data... midi data...]
tr11 [midi data... midi data... midi data...]
tr12 [midi data... midi data... midi data...]
tr13 [midi data...]
tr14 [midi data... midi data... midi data...]
tr15 [midi data... midi]
tr16 [midi data... midi data...]
tr17 [midi data... midi data... midi data...]

While this works, it makes for a mess on the screen, especially if there are several multi channel VSTis each getting fed from several midi tracks.

Reaper in its glory would do it like such: The first track containing the VSTi could be made a folder track (to neatly hide all the others when they do not need to be seen. The next 8 (or other sufficient number of) tracks will control the VSTi's output volume for the its available outputs, AND contain midi data routed to the VSTi itself. It would look like this (and thus my feature request):

tr1 [VSTi RMX][folder track]|
---tr2 [RMX out A]|[midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch1]
---tr3 [RMX out B]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch2]
---tr4 [RMX out C]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch3]
---tr5 [RMX out D]|[midi data... to tr1-ch4]
---tr6 [RMX out E]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch5]
---tr7 [RMX out F]|[midi data... midi... to tr1-ch6]
---tr8 [RMX out G]|[midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch7]
---tr9 [RMX out H]|[midi data... midi data... midi data... to tr1-ch8]

thanks,
Tallis

Ps. this may be possibe already - I am still wrapping my head around the routing matrix. If actual screen shots would be more helpful, I could make some.
Cheers,
T
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:10 PM   #2
Dstruct
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justin said such routing is "denied".


at the moment you have send the audio outs to OTHER tracks than the ones where you sending the midi from! thus you need the double amount of tracks (audio + midi).
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:13 PM   #3
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here the whole story: http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2050
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:15 PM   #4
Tallisman
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this, friend, truly is a bummer.
I will read that other thread.
thanks for the head's up!
/T
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:19 PM   #5
Dstruct
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yeah i still hope justin can came up with a more user friendly multitimbral/multioutput vsti usage solution ...

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-22-2007 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:05 PM   #6
Serendipity
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You might try this layout which gives you everything tucked away into two folder tracks:

tr1 [VSTi RMX][folder track][recieves MIDI from track 2-9][sends audio to track 11-18]
---tr2 [MIDI ch 1]
---tr3 [MIDI ch 2]
---tr4 [MIDI ch 3]
---tr5 [MIDI ch 4]
---tr6 [MIDI ch 5]
---tr7 [MIDI ch 6]
---tr8 [MIDI ch 7]
---tr9 [MIDI ch 8]
tr10 [RMX Audio Outputs][folder track][recieves audio from tracks 11-18][sends audio to master/parent send]
---tr11 [RMX out A]
---tr12 [RMX out B]
---tr13 [RMX out C]
---tr14 [RMX out D]
---tr15 [RMX out E]
---tr16 [RMX out F]
---tr17 [RMX out G]
---tr18 [RMX out H]

I don't have RMX Stylus but I guess it's similar to any other multitimbral multi I/O VSTi e.g. SampleTank, Kontakt or whatever...

I used Emulator X to simulate your RMX (and wow, it didn't crash once... [img]http://*************.net/not-tagged-smiley-10304.gif[/img] )
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:37 PM   #7
Jae.Thomas
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Vsti multi out has always been in need of some refining, imo. Right now its a bit clunky for vsti routing, even though it all works.
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:51 PM   #8
Serendipity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregh View Post
so serendipity, not being too familiar with the icons, does this mean that emulator X crashes a lot, or never. i was just looking at emulator X2, which did look nice, but if their products are buggy I'd rather not get it (though i might get kontakt anyway)
greg
Well, Reaper (or Emulator X) did crash when I closed the project I was doing the simulation in. Although that was after I had written the above statement with the laughing smiley. But I'm not surprised. Unfortunately Reaper doesn't like Emulator X and X2, or it might be the other way around. Many have problems. If you do a search here I think you'll find that out. Then it's the interface...I personally don't like it. I find it cumbersome so I hardly ever use it. If I had known this before I bought it I wouldn't have bothered. The soundcard (E-MU 1212M) is pretty nice though.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:43 AM   #9
Tallisman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
You might try this layout which gives you everything tucked away into two folder tracks:

tr1 [VSTi RMX][folder track][recieves MIDI from track 2-9][sends audio to track 11-18]
---tr2 [MIDI ch 1]
---tr3 [MIDI ch 2]
---tr4 [MIDI ch 3]
---tr5 [MIDI ch 4]
---tr6 [MIDI ch 5]
---tr7 [MIDI ch 6]
---tr8 [MIDI ch 7]
---tr9 [MIDI ch 8]
tr10 [RMX Audio Outputs][folder track][recieves audio from tracks 11-18][sends audio to master/parent send]
---tr11 [RMX out A]
---tr12 [RMX out B]
---tr13 [RMX out C]
---tr14 [RMX out D]
---tr15 [RMX out E]
---tr16 [RMX out F]
---tr17 [RMX out G]
---tr18 [RMX out H]

I don't have RMX Stylus but I guess it's similar to any other multitimbral multi I/O VSTi e.g. SampleTank, Kontakt or whatever...

I used Emulator X to simulate your RMX (and wow, it didn't crash once... [img]http://*************.net/not-tagged-smiley-10304.gif[/img] )
Thanks for the suggestion. That is in fact what I was experimenting with. Not bad 2 visible tracks instead of 1... still though, 18 to manage rather than 9. its workable.
cheers,
Tallis
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