Old 08-06-2021, 03:27 PM   #201
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Hey, there, Tod! Not sure if you remember, but long ago when I was learning about ROUTING for the first time you built me a track routing matrix and I STILL use it as my base template !!!

Not sure if you caught it in my previous posts, but I've been focused on my recovery the past year or so. BTW, this week is my 5-years clean!

Anyway, pluging along and working it out, you know!
Oh man, 5 years clean, several years ago I had my bout with alcohol, so I know what that means, congratulations.

Regarding the "routing" I'm still using it too, but I've added to it to go along with my "Mixing & Mastering with profiles".
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Old 08-07-2021, 10:41 AM   #202
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Oh man, 5 years clean, several years ago I had my bout with alcohol, so I know what that means, congratulations.

Regarding the "routing" I'm still using it too, but I've added to it to go along with my "Mixing & Mastering with profiles".
Any chance you would be willing to share your updated layout with me? Hope I'm not out of line for asking ......
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:10 AM   #203
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OK..... Finally, a bit of success here !

As you all know, I have been asking a lot about the vocal tracks and it's been lively to say the least!

I decided to interrogate all of my NON-vocal tracks including my MASTER track and discovered that there were a few plugins that I could do without which ended up being the actual source of much of the extra 'noise' that I've been hearing in my MIC when attempting to record.

I had got a project setup with a bunch of routing back when I first got Reaper made by another user and it works great! BUT, I think what has happened is that I ended up saving it as a 'template' which is what I should do and just did not realize that those VSTs were causing an issue.

For example, I discovered I had for some reason at one time put a MASTER Limiter plugin on the MASTER track. It was so long ago I don't even remember why I did it. It had just got saved as part of the template and I just stopped noticing it was there. So, I removed it tonight and just doing that got rid of a significant amount of my room noise.

The other thing I did is that I learned from a guy named Devvon on YouTube that most of you might do anyway because of your own experience has to do with my music instrument stems. I get the pre-recorded music with each instrument. What I was doing was sending them all to a music BUSS which is OK, but I was using the fader to control the volume. What I learned was to leave the fader alone and bring the pre-fader volume of each of the stem items down by about -15db which when played back, the song plays at around -18db on the BUSS without touching the fader. Like I said, you all might know this one already as a common practice, but for me it is a new discovery. I had just never thought to do that before.

As a result of deleting the limiter on the MASTER track I was also able to rurn DOWN the gain on my external MIC interface and still reach a good level on the meter! So much quieter now! Thank, God! I guess my 'Higher Power'is actually watching over me this week, that's for sure!

Last, I'm thinking to that because of the reduction in noise because of eliminating these extra plugins that the Fx I have the vocals being sent to have a more 'true' sound for me to mix to!

Anyway, what I am learning in recovery is that when I get frustrated or triggered by something to just walk away and come back to it later.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how doing this improves my recording sessions ...
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:37 AM   #204
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So, I removed it tonight and just doing that got rid of a significant amount of my room noise.

As a result of deleting the limiter on the MASTER track I was also able to turn DOWN the gain on my external MIC interface and still reach a good level on the meter! So much quieter now!
I am afraid, your 'room noise' is part of the source signal and that is not good. Basically means your room is not and has not been acoustically treated... and most likely you do not have a vocal-booth, blankets on a frame around the mic (including on top to block reflections from the ceiling). Such an acoustic (non-pro) treatment of the room is time consuming but at the end it's worth it. It will eventually block most of the noise from your computer (its fans) too.

The limiter on the master bus just brought up the fairly high 'room noise', which was originally present in the source signal.
This 'room noise' will come back in the Mastering stage, when overall levels usually go up.
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:44 AM   #205
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I am afraid, your 'room noise' is part of the source signal and that is not good. Basically means your room is not and has not been acoustically treated... and most likely you do not have a vocal-booth, blankets on a frame around the mic (including on top to block reflections from the ceiling). Such an acoustic (non-pro) treatment of the room is time consuming but at the end it's worth it. It will eventually block most of the noise from your computer (its fans) too.

The limiter on the master bus just brought up the fairly high 'room noise', which was originally present in the source signal.
This 'room noise' will come back in the Mastering stage, when overall levels usually go up.
Well, like many people, I am recording from a HOME studio and seeing as how my entire house is only a 412 square foot box, it will be somewhat hard to 'treat' my apartment!

Also, there was at least one other pluging besides the master limiter that I got rid of that was also a contributing factor in cutting all this extra boosted noise....

I do have one of my three closets dedicated as a MIC booth with 2"foam on 3 of the walls inside it, but it is still open where the closet door opens. It is too small for me to close the closet to be inside comfortably. So, I am doing the best I can with what I have to work with but no doubt, what I did by deleting these plugins is a game-changer from where I was, that's for sure!
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:03 PM   #206
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Default How do I fix RMS that is clipping because of vocal?

I'm still trying to figure out all the terminology of mixing so I hope I'm describng whats happening corectly.

I am singing to pre-recorded music and on the MASTER track there are the 4 meter bars and if I am looking at it correctly the 2 outer ones look like the RMS meters.

When I play just the music all seems to be well and the meters are all within the GREEN, no problem. On my music track it is set to stay close to the typical -18.

BUT, when I start recording myself singing to the music, those 2 outer meters go into the RED and I am just wondering what steps I need to take to fix that?
My MIC is properly gain staged, but I did have it running through a few Fx but they all seem to not be exceeeding -18.

As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine, but I just want to do things right and learn what, if anythimng, I should do about this?
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:45 PM   #207
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There’s no clipping unless the peak meters hit 0. Red on the RMS just means your average level might be a little high, but I wouldn’t worry about it.
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Old 08-25-2021, 01:00 PM   #208
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Red on the RMS just means your average level might be a little high, but I wouldn’t worry about it.
OK, so, what is considerdv to be 'HIGH'?
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Old 08-25-2021, 01:37 PM   #209
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Honestly that question just leads us into another one of those “gain staging” arguments. There are several of those recently that devolved into name calling and were ultimately closed. I suggest you just ignore the red on the rms meters. Watch your peaks, mix til it sounds good, maybe consider your overall average loudness in mastering. Target values will depend on genre among other things and generally be subjective and ultimately arbitrary.


Edit - I mean, you can change that red threshold in the meter settings. Set it wherever you want. If it bugs you, just set it really high so you never have to see it again.
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Old 08-25-2021, 02:16 PM   #210
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@sjs94704,
OK, so I am now pretty sure you have not read my posts in one of your previous threads, namely the 'Question about gain staging VOX track'.

I have to quote myself:

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Indeed, one should be careful not to clip "the red" on the master (but that is for Peaks usually accompanied by excessive low-end "mud" build up).

I usually set my Master monitor meter to "go in the red" for the RMS (at around -18dBFS with upper tolerance of about +3dBFS). So, that is another "red clipping indicator", which tells me I am in the ballpark with my mix and it is considered "good red clipping".

Just to make the clarification. Beginners might read this.
They see red, they think it is bad, because some individuals on a forum said "do not clip the red".
Peaks and RMS red indicators are different and have totally different meaning!


Please, notice:
Clipping the red (of Peaks) is "set in stone" as 0dBFS and can not be altered in any way.

Clipping the red (of RMS) is arbitrary and can be changed in Reapaer's Master bus settings.
Usual values for the 'Red threshold' would be: -18dBFS (for modern pop\rock\EDM mixes), -21dBFS (for some folk\ethno\world\jazz), and -23dBFS to -24dBFS (for Classical music or some retro swing jazz).

In the Mastering stage they will be pushed up anyway (maybe not so much for the Classical and retro jazz).



Here is an illustration I made for another question as an answer to another user:

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Old 08-25-2021, 02:52 PM   #211
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Pashkuli- I don't exactly recall which oter thread your explination was in, BUT, if was in one where some other got into lots of BS back n' forth it might have got mixed in with all of that!

BUT, I am a visual learner anyway, so this diagram you posted here is an awesome tool for me to be clearer on what your talking about.

Other than that, I do take some meds that interfere with my memory, so theres that!

Thanks so much for your effort in putting this diagram together! I'm sure I won't be the only one who will benefit from it!

Thanks again for sharing this ..............
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Old 08-25-2021, 04:08 PM   #212
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But, I am a visual learner anyway, so this diagram you posted here is an awesome tool for me to be clearer on what your talking about.

Thanks again for sharing this.
No worries, that is why I re-posted it here. You mentioned in the other thread, you are a visual learner.

Red "clipping" (rather it should be called range) for RMS tells you that the mix\signal is "hot" ('red hot'), strong enough, has a 'healthy level' (for that style, genre...).

I wish Reaper's Master bus meter had a proper assignable setting for those RMS ranges (as Samplitude has had them for 15+ years):

for rock\modern meter RMS settings:
red hot range ≥ -18dbFS
ideal yellow\orange range: from -21dBFS to -18dbFS
medium green range: from -40dBFS to -21dBFS

* it says VU-meter but they mean RMS (in digital domain there is no VU)
* in Samplitude you can set Peak meter to show values above 0dBFS, because you can setup some implied 'headroom or offset' of the red Peak "for precaution"
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Old 08-25-2021, 04:17 PM   #213
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BUT, when I start recording myself singing to the music, those 2 outer meters go into the RED and I am just wondering what steps I need to take to fix that?

My MIC is properly gain staged, but I did have it running through a few Fx but they all seem to not be exceeeding -18.
It doesn't matter. None of this matters. By whatever metric, be it audible, mathematical or procedural, this is nonsense that is spread from one ill informed person to another. Don't let them drag you in.

As a wise man said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
As far as the actual recording itself it sounds fine
And that's /thread.
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