Old 07-13-2021, 12:19 PM   #1
mixer.x
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Default The MOTU Stage-B16

id like to do live recording
so Im in search of an interface,.. but this might be the perfect product for me
https://motu.com/products/avb/stage-b16

it seems like i could do FOH stage mix and recording from my laptop

im curious about the nuts and bolts of how it works

there not very specific about
the computer side or its very straight forward

i was curious about assigning tracks to different line outputs
are they just line sends or are they otherwise assigned

anyone haveing any information about this product or price
thanks for replying
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:37 PM   #2
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If You can live without digital snake and 96 kHz, take a look on Soundcraft Ui24r
https://www.soundcraft.com/products/ui24r
IMHO one of the convenient GUI for live mixing.
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Old 07-14-2021, 05:56 AM   #3
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interesting ,..thanks for pointing that out. i hope i never need 20 inputs

im interested in
1-live multitrack recording
2-multiple monitor sends
3-internal mixer i can use for F.O.H

i dont really know how to compare the 2 units. theres definately a quality vs price difference,i could use either i think. i dont know about studer pre -amps
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Old 07-14-2021, 06:42 AM   #4
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This is MOTU's answer to the Midas/Behringer X32 Rack. There are a couple other interface makers on the scene with units like this now too. I'm not sure which one rises to the top with most bang for the buck. The X32 has additional line level I/O out of the box to connect a few extra mic preamps and outputs for additional in ear mixes (for example). One of the other brands makes a 24 mic input unit. The ethernet connected expansion boxes seem like a reasonable deal though too. Slick for sure.

I've been mixing live with Reaper since 2009 using wi-fi connected iPad and MIDI controllers. I have to say that the X32 Rack's OSC setup rocks right out of the box! Even after being spoiled by Reaper. I don't know how the MOTU built in mixer compares. Their old Cuemix was a little klunky but I assume they've stepped up their game with this.

I'd take a look at the iPad mixer apps they have dialed up and see what looks better. Then compare I/O. The description of their "AVB network" sounds proprietary... They wouldn't really sell something like this that couldn't use a standard switch to connect with tablets? I'd look that up further.

With the I/O available this looks like it lines up more with the Behringer/Midas XR-18 than the X32 Rack.

I would absolutely get one of this style system for running live sound nowadays though. I just sniped up a X32 actually. Plus another 8 channel Midas mic preamp unit that I can connect 7 of to the line level inputs. (They let you repurpose the talkback input channel if you wish.) 23 Midas mic inputs. Stereo out + 6 monitors (or quad output + 4 monitors) and then another 6 in ear mix outputs. And the Mac Pro Reaper system gets to stay home!

Be wary of the modern crop of laptops with circa 2001 CPU specs out there. But just recording 16 - 32 channels of audio and not doing any processing or mixing should just idle a CPU. If you're just recording you could use any old thing.
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:46 AM   #5
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at $1200 i think the
Soundcraft Ui24R 24-channel Remote-controlled Digital Mixer
will be the winner

https://www.soundcraft.com/products/ui24r
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:09 AM   #6
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Give us some feedback on the OSC control setup (or whatever they use) for the tablet.
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:57 AM   #7
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Default all it says

Built-in dual-band Wi-Fi eliminates the need for a router to provides a reliable connection to up to 10 mobile devices in mission critical situations
Control Ui24R from iOS, Android, Windows, Mac OS and Linux browsers without installing additional apps


you contect wifi through your browser
or an eithernet cable
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:34 AM   #8
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I mean how user friendly their setup is.
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:43 AM   #9
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sorry yea,..thats an unknown that could be a problem
lots of routing you could do
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Old 07-14-2021, 01:10 PM   #10
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RME. Routing Music Everywhere.

I'm a TotalMix Total Addict™.

Using a Digiface USB on the computer's side. 64 channels into an Appsys.ch box that turns 64 ADAT channels into one UTP cable.

On the other end sit up to 4 ADAT boxes (Behringer ADA8000) up to 75 meters away. 24/8, 16/16 or whatever I might need.

Sure, it's a cobbled together test system. Whenever I need to replicate it, it could also end up being a Behringer X32 rack. That's about the only system that's equally flexible, at a comparable price point.

Remote control via browser, or with the TotalMix app on an ipad.
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Old 07-15-2021, 07:30 AM   #11
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so with the soundcraft you can plug in a usb stick and auto record the perfomance
that sounds really handy

so i cant tell how many ways you can route the audio
it only shows 1 very basic matrix

but i want the 8 outs for headphone or monitor mixes

it has a whole internal mixer you can control w a touch sreen with high quality dsp

its kind of redundant because you can do all your mixing on input channels
and then do more mixing in reaper

but i could set up 20 recording tracks 8 monitor mixes and the mixer out track to the FOH stacks
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Old 07-15-2021, 08:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
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its kind of redundant because you can do all your mixing on input channels
and then do more mixing in reaper
I don't think that's right.

The built in mixer will have no connection to the Reaper mixer. Unless you make the routing to create that... SOP is to pick one system to mix FOH with. You can use the unit as a straight audio interface and mix in the DAW with Reaper running in low latency. Or you can use the rack system's built in mixer and run the live mix with that. <- That's how these rack systems are intended to be used. What you discover is that the baseline latency you can achieve with these style interfaces (when used as straight interfaces) is high-ish. You end up compensating with an even lower block size and really limit what you can get away with. And of course you're on your own with dialing up any tablet control and connecting wi-fi devices.

You COULD route things and use both mixers at the same time. It would be awkward. It would be like patching two mixing boards together. Latency would be an issue.
Pick your system. Either the integrated mixer in one of these rack systems or the DAW + audio interface route.
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Old 07-15-2021, 03:59 PM   #13
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as far as a typical recording set up i know what you mean there could be issues
doing live sound with wifi
i dont know about the touchscreen compatibility ie dropouts or lag

but the sound craft ,..all your channels get recorded to a usb stick,..so i doubt theres any latency issues recording
actually its set up so you run your audio back into the ur 24 to mix

also
the 8 outputs seem to to be tied to aux channels which can be pre or post fader

they also have matrix routing doing things which i cant quite figure out
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Old 07-15-2021, 04:22 PM   #14
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As far as hardware, the B16 is about six years old. The software, which gets updated, is a part of it, but one never knows when something will get end of lifed due to OS compatibilty and how they decide to draw the line when support dwindles. I'm a fan of MOTU but they're not the greatest in that regard. Driver updates for OS's that are already in general use are sometimes painfully slow in coming.
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Old 07-15-2021, 05:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
as far as a typical recording set up i know what you mean there could be issues
doing live sound with wifi
I know there are comments around the built in wi-fi being weak in the Bahringer XR-18. You can always use your own switch and wi-fi though. I still have my trusty WRT54G. I was using remote desktop back before OSC was a thing. I had the WRT54G into a 1W booster and then an antenna on a mast. I had it pretty solid up to 300' when I had to have video going back and forth. The OSC is just MIDI-like data back and forth and there's never a dropout or lag over with that no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
i dont know about the touchscreen compatibility ie dropouts or lag
There shouldn't be any control lag around the touch control software. That's all on the wi-fi network. Continuing on that... Just don't broadcast the network ID so it doesn't get pinged by anyone nearby looking for wi-fi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
but the sound craft ,..all your channels get recorded to a usb stick,..so i doubt theres any latency issues recording
Well, there wouldn't be any system lag to worry about at all with the recording path! It's not the live mix. The recording can lag in the system all it wants since there's no one there to hear it mixed with the live sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
actually its set up so you run your audio back into the ur 24 to mix
Yeah... Take another look at this though. The ability is aimed more at doing a "virtual sound check" for convenience than running a computer host for fx and further processing as an insert. At any rate, doing that gives you a literal round trip through a DAW and back to the board. The rack system as a stand alone interface (with it's higher latency to begin with used as a stand alone USB interface) + adding that? There are some trimmed down fx host kind of apps. Waves makes one. That on a fast Mac and with the block size dialed down to 32 samples (so you can only use a couple of those plugins anyway) would do it.

I'd just mix with Reaper and the Mac Pro at this point and leave the X32 at home. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
also
the 8 outputs seem to to be tied to aux channels which can be pre or post fader
Sure. I imagine they have 8 or 16 mix bus paths to mix to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
they also have matrix routing doing things which i cant quite figure out
Manual a little vague? You could email or chat them.
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:02 AM   #16
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Default soundcraft ui24r

ive been wathching videos on the gui


the main section is just like a mixing board
1 touch for send, aux, or fx inserts
brings up indivudual routing mixers
then theres matrix routing which is pita

so for general use it seems to come set up ok

there are several dum things in the software i have noticed just from some demos
ie inputs and output tracks are on different channel

so you would have to alias ALL of reapers inputs
i just thought i was weird they would expect you to record into a daw then bring
the audio back into the box to do the mixing
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:15 AM   #17
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I feel that I can reply to this thread since I actually OWN a MOTU StageB16

so lemme give you the BAD aspects
1. the mixer inside it is almost unusable for a real live show. I mean, it works, you can make a decent mix, but the interface is slow and clunky, poorly optimized. MOTU should take a hint from yamaha or midas/behringer as to what makes a good mixer. we need Matricies. built-IN RTA, and a quick and snappy UI. Also, switching from 48khz to 192khz DELETES mixer settings, and those settings are still lost when returning to 48khz. basically the built in mixer is unusable if you switch between samplerates often and there is NO way to lock the sample rate with just a single standalone motu stageB16 over USB.

2nd: the usb is.. barely class compliant. its got some serious quirks/bugs with linux. trying to get it to work with a raspberry pi for recording is probably never going to work, whereas I have no problems with a midas m32 using the dn32-usb card.


but here are some GOOD aspects:

if ya dont mind the clunky UI, its probably the ONLY interface/mixer that has an HTML web interface that operates at 96khz (mixer has only 32 mixing channels when at 96khz, and at 192khz, channel eq/compression is disabled)

Audio performance is excellent, very low distortion on the mic pre’s with more gain range than Ive ever needed. even at 6 years old it still out-performs most other interfaces. (-110db THD+N on MIC INPUTS &#128077

on Mac the USB performance is “similar” to RME. MOTU’s custom USB driver has very low latency.

the REALITY here is that if you’re capturing a recording thats destined to be played back at 1.0x realtime speed, there is no reason to record at 96khz. 48khz is all you need. Id look into a midas MR18 if you only need usb recording and an EXCELLENT mixer. the DSP available in the behringer/midas is outstanding. greatly exceeding that of soundcraftUI and others.
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
i just thought i was weird they would expect you to record into a daw then bring
the audio back into the box to do the mixing
Don't know who would be suggesting that. You're obviously going to do post production in a DAW.

These units are still audio interfaces and thus you can use them that way and output audio from a DAW. These rack systems are set up with their routing and mixer functions front and center and the interface ability as an accessory. I don't mean that as an opinion. Just matter of fact how these units are programmed down to the firmware and whatnot. And their built in USB interfaces aren't the most low latency. These are really made to run live sound with their built in mixer as opposed to using it as a straight interface and running live sound with the computer and DAW.

They're thinking more of doing a virtual soundcheck with the returns. You're listening to something prerecorded when you do that and thus latency is a moot point.

You might want to take a look at the X32 tablet setup (their OSC setup) if you think MOTU's isn't quite on point. They kind of nailed it IMHO. I like MOTU products. I've used some of their interfaces for a long time. Their Cuemix setup on the older interfaces was honestly a bit klunky though. Routing ability that should have been there with the hardware set that was missing and that kind of stuff. So I'm not shocked if someone else has a better OSC touch control dialed up than MOTU.
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:50 AM   #19
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i think theres about 3 ways to set up the stienberg routing up
-foh w monitor mixes recording to a usb
-straight recording routing; 8 headphone mixes and 20 tracks direct to the daw

im just unclear on some of the technicalities,..
ie input channel 1 on the box , is channel 10 in the mixer (??)

theres also lots of submenus and they were showing some routing that takes 3 channels to acheive

the Midas/Behringer X32 Rack doesnt have as good specs as
the soundcraft,...
it has more 4 channels and more features... like automatic recording to usb!
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Old 07-17-2021, 02:38 AM   #20
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Default Soundcraft Ui24r

Yes, mic in 1 in DAW "lives" in channel 11. That's weird, but it is legit, because of Ui24r USB B is 32x32 channel audio interface. And channels 1 to 10 is "reserved" for 8 auxes and master. Yes, You can record Your aux mixes and master mix stright in the DAW alongside individual tracks.

It is possible for following chain: source in CH1 -> USB -> DAW or whatever -> back in USB -> standart Ui24r channel DSP and routing. Therefore You can use DAW as DSP insert for Your channels. I can't prove very low latency, because my laptops are too weak for realtime DSP with reasonable latency.

There is good option for WiFi paranoics - You can connect almost any HDMI display stright in Ui24r HDMI port and use mixer with mouse in 720p, or use touchscreen display with USB connections. Or better - use 1080p or bigger resolution touchscreen display with some CPU for running browser (any, windows, linux, mac).

You can connect up to 10 various devices to control mixer. With access restrictions for curious musicians if You will.

You can record 22 track multitrack + master on USB at the same time. + all 32 tracks on DAW + play background music from other USB.

You have 6 subgroups with DSP. For example, route all the drums in one and put light compression on them.

There is 6 VCA too.

There is onboard 2 loud phone outs, configuarble to any AUX. They are not audiophile quality, but very usable and convenient on stage.

First two channels is switchable to Hi-Z with some basic amp sim. Very usable and convenient, when live combo is no option for whatever reasons, especially for bass. Just put it stright in with quarter inch jack. You don't have to use amp sim, use only proper load impedance (Hi-Z) setting. Or let the guitarist play with his/her hardware stompboxes and adjust amp sim he/her likes by itself on his/her tablet. Very convenient for big bands in small gig spaces with very wet drywall'ed rooms with endless room modes.

Now some drawbacks.
*) FX'es are very basic. These works good, but don't expect whole lexicon parameters to edit.
*) There is "cascade" option, if You have second Ui24r. It works only between 2 these and do not double input channels! You can use second Ui24r as stagebox and route channels between these two almost freely. But GUI is split, not as convenient as needed to be. You can kind of record 40 channels (in 2 USB's of each unit), but i can't guarantee sync between two units. I rarely had option for second unit, thats why my experiments like this was not possible.
*) RTA can be shown only on one device at same tame, You can switch RTA of course between devices.
*) You can't put EQ before COMP.
*) Sidechain possibilities are limited. They exists only on subgroups. By example, You can duck music, routed in one subgroup with voiceover routed in other subgroup.

But it is under 1000$ mixer, You can't expect all from it
I'm member of 8 people wedding band and we "toured" almost 2 Years till c19 with my Ui24r with good results. All the inputs and outputs was full and each member + sound guy has tablets for adjusting in ear mixes + master for sound guy.
With another band we are making studio recordings with Ui24r too without any complains about preamps.

Yes, i work with Harman products at my daily job, but please read this as an user report not as salesman sell song

Last edited by jazznfunk; 07-17-2021 at 02:58 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-17-2021, 02:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer.x View Post
id like to do live recording
so Im in search of an interface,..
IMHO best for Your research would be borrowing or rent various mixers for a few days from some rental company or friends, or maybe local music shop. To find out Yourself how things work for Your needs on each mixer.
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Old 07-17-2021, 07:56 AM   #22
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Default hey jazznfunk

unfortunately for some reason most stores arnt renting or having may interfaces right now.

thank you for your detailed response
ive used soundcraft before and they were decent if not pro-audio

im thinking if i can

mix a live show
record in the practice space
use it for tracking and overdubs

i doubt ill have to get into matrix routing which you have to admit
is a little complicated

thanks again for your response!
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Old 07-17-2021, 08:09 PM   #23
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It isn't 100% like in reality, but You can kinda "learn" basics of Ui24r GUI in their homepage built in GUI demo.

http://www.soundcraft.com/ui24-software-demo/mixer.html

Feel free to dive in. You can try patching too. It is far from RME's TotalMix, but in live situations this is good news. As in all things You have to spend some time for getting familiar with.

Another good source of info about Ui24r is YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGj...F2chD0QVEV28mw
(narrator is Ui series godfather Danny Olesh)

P.S. at my side is 6:00 AM, just arrived home from some small wedding gig with Ui24r small brother Ui12

P.P.S Ui12 @ Ui16 is another story. Same model line, similar GUI, but very limited possibilities compared with Ui24r. They're simple gigging mixers. I love these too.

Last edited by jazznfunk; 07-17-2021 at 08:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:27 AM   #24
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configurable is good and i have used soundcraft before
out of the interfaces ive seen this seems to kinda kick ass

i do wonder about some internal routing they showed in the vids
seemed kinda wierd

i feel like its the best deal for me
thanks for all your inputs

*I downloaded the manual so i hope it answers all the ways you can do routing

Last edited by mixer.x; 07-19-2021 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 07-19-2021, 08:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magoostus View Post
I feel that I can reply to this thread since I actually OWN a MOTU StageB16
Hey, get outta here. This thread is for assumptions based on fourth hand anecdotal speculation!

Just kidding, of course Thanks for that.

Glad to know the audio is excellent. I've always used assorted MOTU hardware mixed in with higher range interfaces on projects and never regretted it. But I no longer have what it takes to be frustrated with the rest, and if there's a fair chance the rest is bumpy I can't deal.
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Old 07-19-2021, 08:26 AM   #26
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Default help me jazznfunk

typically reading the manual gave me all the info that was obvious
leaving out how to actually configure anything
not much on how to use it for different situations

as far as i can tell everything routes back into mixer
but they have groups, aux sends and fx sends..which you can send other sends to
pre ,post fader, or pre channel strip

not much on how to use it for different situations
can you tell me how to route the 8 outs as seperate outs for monitor mixes
do i have to change the matrix routing for every set up i need?
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:36 AM   #27
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The design feature I'm noticing that seems common to these rack system audio interfaces is a separation between the audio interface itself and the hardware.

A standard audio interface will present all the hardware I/O. You connect it to a host system and there it is. Assign the ins and outs as you please. Any built in mixer ability is an additional accessory that must be routed to.

These rack system boxes have the audio interface as an added accessory. The hardware I/O on the unit is not necessarily connected to the interface right out of the box. You must choose which blocks of I/O to connect to the available audio interface slots. The built in mixer is front and center.

And that USB audio interface is not the fastest one on the block. If you were wanting to run sound with a DAW/computer/interface setup, these rack system units would not be the best choice. You kind of want to be good with their live sound running ability with their built in mixer.

Anyway...
I thought I was pretty happy running live sound with Reaper using wi-fi connected iPad and MIDI controllers. And I am! The OSC setup Midas/Behringer dialed up for their X32 still made a really good impression. (I'm going to plagiarize some of that in fact!) And even after being spoiled with Reaper on a Mac Pro, I'm really comfortable going out to run a show with an X32. The recordings off the Midas preamps and whatever the hell AD converters they use are good. I can't hear anything obviously subdued. That's all.

I like MOTU products in general. They're one of the ones embracing network audio and their newer interfaces all have ethernet ports. I hope their mic preamps have improved though. Their analog stages were their weak point in the past. Mixing MOTU with Apogee was bang for the buck for me back then. Get the features, routing, and digital I/O from MOTU and the AD and DA from Apogee. The 4 extra channels of mic inputs I had from the MOTU 828mk3 units were clearly 2nd class. I suspect their new gen mic preamps are better like everyone else's. I feel like about 10 years ago someone said, "You know, you can still build mic preamps really cheap but if you at least use audio band capable components they might actually work!"

If RME made one of these rack system interfaces it would probably have actually 24 mic preamp inputs. Then probably another 8 line ins and outs each. Probably an ADAT port available. (That would be their ringer feature no one else has built in.) The expected ethernet ports and network ability and compatibility with various stage box expansion units. Their AD/DA and analog stage quality would be what you expect from them and their software and OSC setup would be extra on point. And then they'd probably charge about $4000 for it!

Last edited by serr; 07-19-2021 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 07-19-2021, 03:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
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If RME made one of these rack system interfaces it would probably have actually 24 mic preamp inputs. Then probably another 8 line ins and outs each. Probably an ADAT port available. (That would be their ringer feature no one else has built in.) The expected ethernet ports and network ability and compatibility with various stage box expansion units. Their AD/DA and analog stage quality would be what you expect from them and their software and OSC setup would be extra on point. And then they'd probably charge about $4000 for it!
24 inputs would require 2 of these:

https://www.thomann.de/be/rme_12mic.htm

You know I want one!

Only 2500 € (VAT incl) for one...

I hear they're selling by the dozen.
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Old 07-20-2021, 09:43 AM   #29
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Well, damn that is expensive!

See now, this kind of thing is why I ended up with MOTU + Apogee back when I did that. And I think I need to double that estimate above too!

Honestly though, all their stuff looks absolutely solid from every direction. Clearly 'buy it for life' kind of products.
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:30 AM   #30
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There aren't many options if you want digitally controlled mic preamps...

A lot of other designs use VCA after the preamps.
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:02 AM   #31
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Default how often do people need 22 inputs?

the thing about these "breakout box/inface" designs they dont come with analogue gain
,..is that a reason to buy alot of pre-amps or do you think theres enough digital gain
to record an acoustic guitar with s dynamic mic?>

also im not buying any ipad so no ber/midas for me
i can plug my hdmi on my laptop right into the soundcraft unit
i can also leave my recording comptuer at home for live gigs and rec to usb stick
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:58 AM   #32
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There aren't many options if you want digitally controlled mic preamps...

A lot of other designs use VCA after the preamps.
?!? I didn't know that! Why would someone not use a digitally controlled potentiometer? The hell? Well shit. Is that what the Midas preamps are doing? I still think this gear is OK to my ear. There are still preamps I don't think are that OK. The old generation of 'budget' in general. The mic pres on my older MOTU interfaces are 2nd class. Those older small and mid sized boards from Mackie and Soundcraft fully sucked. The older B-word products before the Midas/B-word merger felt like being trolled. ("Trolled" is a few steps beyond "sucks" FYI.) I don't think I'm just a pushover easy to please. But maybe...
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:22 AM   #33
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the thing about these "breakout box/inface" designs they dont come with analogue gain
,..is that a reason to buy alot of pre-amps or do you think theres enough digital gain
to record an acoustic guitar with s dynamic mic?>
It's going to work like a normal mic preamp just like you're used to. This isn't just a different product. I didn't know about what Cyrano just mentioned. But I've recorded with examples of this newer generation of mic preamps on these Midas boards, the budget Soundcraft MTK, and a few Focusrite interfaces. There was nothing wrong. ALL of them were clearly better than the old gen mic preamps on my older MOTU interfaces. I'll keep my True Audio pres + Apogee AD of course but this new gen stuff is really on point now. Anyway, one of the selling points is that the expansion stage boxes CAN be digitally controlled!

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also im not buying any ipad so no ber/midas for me
i can plug my hdmi on my laptop right into the soundcraft unit
i can also leave my recording comptuer at home for live gigs and rec to usb stick
They likely have an Android mobile OS version of their OSC mixer app. (It will download like an app. You don't have to know what OSC is or that they're using that or dial up any of the nuts and bolts.) If it turns out that you really need an iPad you can snipe a 4th or 5th gen version on Ebay for $100 - $180.

How are you used to running a show? Wired in FOH with a hardware mixing board?
You could plunk a laptop down at a wired in FOH and run the mix with the trackpad. If it was a VERY simple setup, I suppose. Frankly, that would still suck about 17 different ways! That tablet will pay for itself 1000x after the very first show just for being part of a slick system. It's very little to pay and you have your hands on the mix pretty intuitively. You have more ability under your fingers than ever before and you can roam the venue. Soundchecks are done literally standing next to the performers.

Don't go all or nothing with the live sound thinking all you need to do is bring home tracks and can sort it out later. Getting a recording of musicians who are comfortable on stage and can hear themselves clearly and getting sounds dialed in and free of howls and resonance and other artifacts makes a night and day difference in the recording you get! Way more than preamp quality.

Edit: I should have just pointed out that a 100' 16x4 mic snake to make a physical FOH run would cost more than an iPad! It's really the 21st century now.

Last edited by serr; 07-22-2021 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 07-22-2021, 01:36 PM   #34
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?!? I didn't know that! Why would someone not use a digitally controlled potentiometer? The hell? Well shit. Is that what the Midas preamps are doing? I still think this gear is OK to my ear. There are still preamps I don't think are that OK. The old generation of 'budget' in general. The mic pres on my older MOTU interfaces are 2nd class. Those older small and mid sized boards from Mackie and Soundcraft fully sucked. The older B-word products before the Midas/B-word merger felt like being trolled. ("Trolled" is a few steps beyond "sucks" FYI.) I don't think I'm just a pushover easy to please. But maybe...
There are only a few preamp chips with digital gain control. They are expensive (>10$), especially since a run-off-the-mill mic preamp can be built from a few 10 cent transistors. The Ti PGA2500 is one of them:

https://www.ti.com/product/PGA2500

You'll find 'em in RME FF400 and Micstacy.

There's not much love from the studio world for these. They want Neve. But broadcast is full of those.

A potential problem with a typical digital pot is "zipper noise", when moving the pot fast. But a digipot is a lot cheaper. And you're not controlling gain, but volume, of course. If you want/need the last dB of dynamic range, it makes a solid difference. Not your biggest problem in the studio, of course.

I don't know if any of the current crop (X32 etc.) use digital controlled gain, but I would be surprised if they didn't. If you find schematics, please, get me a copy
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Last edited by cyrano; 07-22-2021 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 07-24-2021, 12:32 PM   #35
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im having experience with mixing boards
i hate the idea of trying to mix live on one fader at a time


Im trying to set up a production studio and do live recording of bed tracks
then over dub guits and vox if that works i may try mixing live with it

i was mostly concerned about the aux hardware outs ,..to do monitor mixes with
the bonus is it can record on usb so i dont have to bring my computer to the studio

so it turns out if your trying to do anything normal with the soundcraft ui24r its
pretty much set up out of the box

as far as the gui you just plug an hdmi cable in and the mixer shows up on your monitor, you run things from your computer

i just got confused because they have some epically stupid things like auto mixing
that you just say no to,..its got a lot of pointless bells and whistles


its really a produst that fits my niche
although i wont need 20 or 24 inputs ever (?)
(i hope)
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:43 AM   #36
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ya *could* just get a midas MR18 and a raspberry pi 4 and run REAPER directly on the raspberry pi itself for recording.

no needing to lug a whole computer around, but ill be honest, it's not as easy to set this all up as it sounds :P ya need some linux smarts
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Old 07-25-2021, 11:00 AM   #37
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ya *could* just get a midas MR18 and a raspberry pi 4 and run REAPER directly on the raspberry pi itself for recording.

no needing to lug a whole computer around, but ill be honest, it's not as easy to set this all up as it sounds :P ya need some linux smarts
Soundcraft Ui24r can record 22 channel multitrack straight in USB pen drive + master mix = 24 tracks.
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Old 07-25-2021, 12:08 PM   #38
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hey jazznfunk thanks for your replys in this thread
can you tell me the details of how you have yours set up

and

did you find any of the weird routing options usefull
ie do you have custum routing set ups

im also womdering about using sceanes to set up changes in the mix for different songs
that would be super useful
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Old 07-25-2021, 11:20 PM   #39
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Of course i find "weird" routing option useful.

*) i can route some AUX to DAW and use it as a FX send for my favorite plugin. You can route plugin output back in Ui24r

*) I have drum recording session with Ui24r with remote control (seperate control room).
*) Band recorded demo with click from DAW (routed to channel in Ui24r), each band member can adjust their headphone mix with own tablets or smartphones. Or if they will, they can practice as usual with loudspeakers connected to Master out.
*) After demo rec, drummer plays "clear" takes listening demo without drums but with click from DAW + adjusting himself levels of routed channels on tablet without troubling me in control room.

*) i often AUX'es for parallel compression.

*) sometimes in live i use 3 Vocal input channels (You can route one physical input on as many channels as You want) for parallel compression and delay send on fader for convenience.
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Old 07-26-2021, 08:03 AM   #40
mixer.x
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Default very cool

ive watched some vids on the software but its really hard to tell w/o using it
i have a touchscreen laptop so it might be possible to do live sound with it

*do you use the built in dsp , *sends to reaper post fader

*do you use the aux line out for different monitor mixes or is there anouther
way to get multiple headphone mixes

*i dont think ill work w the tablets, its just easier to use hdmi
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