Old 09-04-2021, 06:34 PM   #1
kirk1701
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Default Headphone mix for vocals

I was playing with Tod's sub-bus monitor technique as highlighted here:

https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254933

The problem is, I can't seem to find enough loudness in my ear.

My interface (Tascam US-600) supports direct monitoring, but it's a weird either/or choice. To wit:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zIj...ew?usp=sharing

Full "input" is direct monitor, but I can't hear any of the backing track.

Full "computer" is DAW output, but I hear none of my direct input. This is where I usually have it.

I have tried splitting the difference at 12 o'clock, but I don't get enough of either.

Any suggestions for a clearer, louder headphone tracking mix are welcome.
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Old 09-04-2021, 08:04 PM   #2
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Headphone amp? Mine's a 4 plug Sterling, was $50 or so. Generally solves the volume issue by having beefier amps, though of course you might need to look at your cans too, solves the inevitable issue of needing someone else to be able to hear your headphone mix, the fancier ones can do A/Bs or even monitor mixes, which sounds like you need either or both of.
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Old 09-04-2021, 09:56 PM   #3
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Headphone amp? Mine's a 4 plug Sterling, was $50 or so. Generally solves the volume issue by having beefier amps, though of course you might need to look at your cans too, solves the inevitable issue of needing someone else to be able to hear your headphone mix, the fancier ones can do A/Bs or even monitor mixes, which sounds like you need either or both of.
Wait, the headphones or the amp does A/B?
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Old 09-05-2021, 02:55 AM   #4
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Wait, the headphones or the amp does A/B?

The headphone amp. Sorry no link, it was just the first one I hit when I briefly searched "headphone amp" to refresh my memory. I think it was a Sterling.
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Old 09-05-2021, 06:37 AM   #5
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I had the same setup with a tascam 1641. What you need to do is is crank it all the way to Input and increase headphone volume until your own voice is just a little too loud, then turn away from input to get some backing track back in to a good balance, then increase volume again to compensate for the drop in your vocal.

If you are needing to turn towards Computer more than a 1/4 you'll need to boost the track with a limiter or faders.
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Old 09-05-2021, 07:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
I was playing with Tod's sub-bus monitor technique as highlighted here:

https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254933

The problem is, I can't seem to find enough loudness in my ear.

My interface (Tascam US-600) supports direct monitoring, but it's a weird either/or choice. To wit:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zIj...ew?usp=sharing

Full "input" is direct monitor, but I can't hear any of the backing track.

Full "computer" is DAW output, but I hear none of my direct input. This is where I usually have it.

I have tried splitting the difference at 12 o'clock, but I don't get enough of either.

Any suggestions for a clearer, louder headphone tracking mix are welcome.
I feel like someone made a rule one day way back that headphone outputs on audio interfaces are to suck or something.

There's a 6 channel headphone amp from Rolls (RA-62) for around $100. It has direct inputs on every channel. There an older B-word 4 or 8 channel unit (PowerPlay) that's similarly useful. It's older B-word though and the jacks will fail with use and all that expected stuff.

There are a lot of headphone amps that only have a single input multed to all the outputs. Radio broadcast aimed use. And of course there are all those shitty facsimile products on Amazon that should be avoided at all cost.

The prices skyrocket with the next level up of gear with the personal monitor systems. The lowly Rolls still feels like good bang for the buck for this.

Note that the direct inputs will be dual unbalanced TRS (just like headphone connectors). You'll have to cable up for that. Modding a TRS whip is usually an easy option.
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:31 AM   #7
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I use a Behringer UMC1820 and it has a fader control to pan between direct or through computer monitoring. It also has louder output when full direct or full through computer and gets weak in the some of both positions. That said, I never monitor direct and always monitor through the computer.

Like others, I bought an inexpensive headphone amp, and in REAPER I setup a headphone channel that sends to outputs 3/4 so the headphone mix is independent of the master.

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/62/img...205_810512.jpg

I bus the output of my sub-master (track 2) to my headphone channel (track 1). When I'm recording at my mix desk I can plug phones in directly to the headphone amp, and when on drums or in other parts of the room, two sets of phone outputs are feeding a snake that ends near the drums.
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Old 09-05-2021, 11:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
I had the same setup with a tascam 1641. What you need to do is is crank it all the way to Input and increase headphone volume until your own voice is just a little too loud, then turn away from input to get some backing track back in to a good balance, then increase volume again to compensate for the drop in your vocal.

If you are needing to turn towards Computer more than a 1/4 you'll need to boost the track with a limiter or faders.
I wish the US-600 had a separate headphone level control. Otherwise this technique would be ideal.

I appreciate everyone's input. A separate headphone amp is probably in order.

I only have two analog outs, so I think a monitor controller with a headphone out is a better option. Suggestions welcome.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:50 PM   #9
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I wish the US-600 had a separate headphone level control. Otherwise this technique would be ideal.

I appreciate everyone's input. A separate headphone amp is probably in order.

I only have two analog outs, so I think a monitor controller with a headphone out is a better option. Suggestions welcome.
Thirty dollars.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Sa...adphone-Amp.gc

That's the same headphone amp I use that I linked an image two posts back. Those have stereo pass through so you plug the outs from your audio interface into it, then take its stereo outputs on to your monitors.
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Old 09-05-2021, 06:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Thirty dollars.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Sa...adphone-Amp.gc

That's the same headphone amp I use that I linked an image two posts back. Those have stereo pass through so you plug the outs from your audio interface into it, then take its stereo outputs on to your monitors.
Noice. Tougher to find in Canada now they've been discontinued.
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
Noice. Tougher to find in Canada now they've been discontinued.
Hi Kirk, I just saw this and I'd like to download the manual for your Tascam interface tomorrow. I took a brief look at it on the Tascam website and it should work. I have a "Komplete Audio 6" which is very similar to the Tascam and it works great.
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Old 09-06-2021, 11:04 AM   #12
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Hi Kirk, I just saw this and I'd like to download the manual for your Tascam interface tomorrow. I took a brief look at it on the Tascam website and it should work. I have a "Komplete Audio 6" which is very similar to the Tascam and it works great.
Awesome!
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Old 09-06-2021, 11:24 AM   #13
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Hi Kirk, I looked over the manual, it has a very strange way of handling the audio and headphone outputs. I suppose it helped make the unit cheaper, but at the same time, renders it useless for some situations.

What you can do is set up Reaper to function as your headphone and main monitor controller. It won't change the way the Tascam selects either speakers or headphones, but it will give you the ability to individually adjust the background music and the vocals. It's really pretty simple and you may have already tried it.

Just set up 2 "pre- Reaper MASTER" tracks, one for the background music (PreMast BGM) and the other for the vocal (PreMast Vox).

Actually you can do this with the setup I sent you, shown here in this picture. It's already set up to do what I'm suggesting.

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Old 09-06-2021, 12:01 PM   #14
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Hi Kirk, I looked over the manual, it has a very strange way of handling the audio and headphone outputs. I suppose it helped make the unit cheaper, but at the same time, renders it useless for some situations.

What you can do is set up Reaper to function as your headphone and main monitor controller. It won't change the way the Tascam selects either speakers or headphones, but it will give you the ability to individually adjust the background music and the vocals. It's really pretty simple and you may have already tried it.

Just set up 2 "pre- Reaper MASTER" tracks, one for the background music (PreMast BGM) and the other for the vocal (PreMast Vox).

Actually you can do this with the setup I sent you, shown here in this picture. It's already set up to do what I'm suggesting.

I haven't tried this, but I do understand.

Yes, this particular interface has a very cumbersome output routing system. The US-800 had a separate headphone control.

My previous method was monitoring the vocal via direct hardware output to either left or right channel. That kinda worked, but it wasn't flattering in any way.
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Old 09-09-2021, 05:11 PM   #15
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I've been using an Oz Q-Mix headphone amp for about 20 years. Handles 6 headphones and I can inject 4 things and mix those 4 things differently to each headset.
Works well.
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Old 09-09-2021, 07:40 PM   #16
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Just to clarify you're saying that cranking the headphone level on the US-600 still doesn't give you enough volume? I would suspect your mic gain and track volume to be too low, on my 1641 that would completely destroy my ears [and maybe headphones]).
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Old 09-09-2021, 07:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi Kirk, I looked over the manual, it has a very strange way of handling the audio and headphone outputs. I suppose it helped make the unit cheaper, but at the same time, renders it useless for some situations.

What you can do is set up Reaper to function as your headphone and main monitor controller. It won't change the way the Tascam selects either speakers or headphones, but it will give you the ability to individually adjust the background music and the vocals. It's really pretty simple and you may have already tried it.

Just set up 2 "pre- Reaper MASTER" tracks, one for the background music (PreMast BGM) and the other for the vocal (PreMast Vox).

Actually you can do this with the setup I sent you, shown here in this picture. It's already set up to do what I'm suggesting.

Okay, this worked!

I tried a dual mic technique with an SM57 and LDC recording to separate tracks. I can never remember where I saw this method detailed.

Anyway, I grouped the two in a folder, using it as a buss, then set that to a vocal submaster buss as Tod instructed. Worked a treat! I found a nice balance with very minimal effort.

It's so much easier to keep pitch and not blow out my larynx on more raucous numbers.
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