|
|
|
10-28-2019, 07:48 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 753
|
FX Container`
This is a simple request for a Plugin Container.
It could contain any FX chain as a single FX instance.
As well as provide oversampling for the entire chain/instance.
This would be quite useful for the following:
- Mixing FX chains, FX chains for individual Tracks
- Easier organizing of FX chains, especially when multiple FX are used for actually
one "effect".
- Easily employable oversampling for ANY FX instance or chain (VST and JSFX alike).
- Moving group of FX up and down the FX chain can be made easier, being that any group of FX can be gathered into a single "FX Container" instance.
The GUI of this FX Container can be done in various ways.
I'm thinking, maybe a simple wired view (like Blender's Nodes, Bidule, ImageLine's MiniHost, DDMF's MetaPlugin, MPL's FX Wiring script, and Reaper's own Track Wiring View).
Please consider. I truly believe that adding such an FX container would be a improvement for MANY workflows.
- oz
|
|
|
10-28-2019, 11:54 AM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
|
Combining FXes to "Macros" already has been requested several times.
Additionally to the specs above, definable "macro" parameters (that feed the internal effect's parameters via an appropriate set of selectable functions) seems appropriate.
Anyway this is not a "simple" request but a whole new feature (i.e. can of worms).
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 10-30-2019 at 07:17 AM.
|
|
|
10-30-2019, 05:42 AM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 753
|
Understood.
Well, hopefully, something can be done to help.
The reason this way of thinking came back to me is that I was working on my own channel strip and noticed the aliasing introduced from the saturation.
I figured that using a tool like DDMF's Metaplugin may help when needing to oversample a chain of VST Fx. However, this approach cannot be used for Reaper's own JSFX instances.
I'm hoping for somehow oversampling on a track can be done as well as some form of FX Container or Mini-host can be crafted to reduce MCP real-estate as well as the other benefits.
Anyways... Maybe they can just open the API up (for possible inner FX hosting and/or cross-project (PiP) communication) and let some script developers come up with these hierarchical tools.
|
|
|
05-24-2020, 05:15 AM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 302
|
Full support for this FR! The container. Macros. The wired interface inside sounds like dream for sound design!
|
|
|
05-24-2020, 06:39 AM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 668
|
For your information: several commercial VST-plugin-as-a-host solutions already exist. Like MuTools MUX Modular or DDMF MetaPlugin (this one even supports oversampling).
This is not to say that Reaper's native implementation wouldn't be welcome.
|
|
|
05-24-2020, 07:47 AM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nappies
The wired interface inside sounds like dream for sound design!
|
To me a "wire interface" (aka Spaghetti GUI) is a nightmare. But of course it does not harm if it's purely optional.
(And of course an oversampling option can't be done non-natively, and might be very welcome in certain instances).
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 12-13-2020 at 04:34 PM.
|
|
|
05-24-2020, 10:03 AM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 302
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmanActive
|
I bought bought all the vst chainers available ! And every of it have small bug or unavailable of key opportunities.For example automatic DPC available only in DDMF. But in mostly convenient and free kushview element chainer DPC is not avaible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
To me a "wire interface" (aka Spaghetti GUI) is a nightmare. But of course it does not harm if it's purely optional.
(And of course an oversampling option can'r be done non-natively, and might be very welcome in certain instances).
-Michael
|
Using multiple nested containers as in the bidule or in the aforementioned
kushview element eliminates this nightmare. By the way in kushview element there is a matrix representation of routing.
|
|
|
05-25-2020, 11:39 AM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 39
|
Vote +1 for this FR
|
|
|
05-31-2020, 01:12 PM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 188
|
+1 I'm workarounding by using Fx tracks and routing, but it's not very ergonomic.
The oversampling part I think that doesn't belong there...
|
|
|
06-04-2020, 12:14 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 44
|
I registered on this forum in order to create a topic with the same request.
There is really not enough in the Reaper some kind of container for FX, some kind of folder for the chain of FX.
I fully support this request!
|
|
|
07-01-2020, 09:45 AM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 44
|
Guys, is it worth the wait, some kind of development is being carried out in this direction, have the developers commented on this somehow? Maybe they plan to create a FX container?
|
|
|
07-01-2020, 12:26 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
I imagine it could be quite easy for the Devs to code an FX-Container...
e.g.: I always use multiple channels (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 --> three chains: Dry, Reverb and Delay) as different FX-Container-Channels in a single track.. this works quite well... BUT setting up the Pin-Connector on every single VST bumms me out *ggrrrrrrrr*... also to manage the routing and keep track what goes where can be hard at some point.. especially when working with a lot of FX.
So the only thing we would need is an FX that automaticaly sets up the routing and summs it again afterward (Splitter and Merger in one FX) ---> then we would also need some margins for the FX inside the FX-Container "Folder" (see pic) to make it pleasent for the eye... AND also, it would be great if the Pin-Connector setup would be set automaticaly if one would place the FX in a channel in the container.
Last edited by operator; 07-23-2020 at 01:56 PM.
|
|
|
07-23-2020, 01:18 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
|
+1
Yes, +1.
There are large sessions and it gets really messy to have that many parallel tracks/fx. Maybe it wasn't necessary a while ago, but now things have gotten larger and more complex.
|
|
|
07-23-2020, 01:51 PM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
something like patcher will be just awesome.
can use patcher inside a patcher inside a patcher...and make a surface control table which is also great.
unlimited and very organized.
|
|
|
07-23-2020, 02:06 PM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaniBani
Yes, +1.
There are large sessions and it gets really messy to have that many parallel tracks/fx. Maybe it wasn't necessary a while ago, but now things have gotten larger and more complex.
|
Especially as Justin himself said in a recent podcast (that got posted somewhere in the forum), that when working with multicore processor it may be better to have individual reverbs (convolution) on every singal track than having routing and therefore dependencies going on.
In electronic music most artists work already mostly with individual reverbs on every singel track for better control (except maybe for some tracks there is only a tiny little bit of reverb on the folder-track for some glueing effect).
An FX-Container would allow to have a 100% Dry Layer and a 100% Wet Reverb Layer... the Reverb Layer then can be shaped further with EQ, Side-Chain-Compression from Dry Signal, Compression, StereoFX, or whatever... Just look at all the creative Ableton FX-Container-Devices (Presets) which are out there... FunFact: the VST "Sausage Fattner" (if anybody knows it... stupid little device... :-P) is an Ableton-FX-Container-Preset from Dada Life that got turned into a plugin.
I need to agree that Image Line Patcher is quite sweet... but something like this would only be usable if it would support PDC... In the beginning of Patcher it didn´t supported PDC (when using it outside of FL as VST), if I´m not changing up memories... maybe I´m wrong with this...
Another thing Patcher is lacking is simple Crossovers to create MultibandFX...
Last edited by operator; 07-23-2020 at 02:29 PM.
|
|
|
07-23-2020, 04:27 PM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 39
|
Examples - trends - requirements
The "splitter" (which is way way more than splitter) from Presonus Studio One is absolutely fantastic. That would be an integrated solution. The other option would be a plugin like patcher from FL Studio which is also extraordinary.
This is a comprehensive video on the splitter from S1 https://marcus-huyskens-music.com/mh...nus-studio-one
And well... the FL Studio patcher is pretty popular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFA1heT-cao
Also Waves did one only for waves plugins (which renders it unusable in the long run) called Waves Studio Rack
It really is an essential tool!
|
|
|
07-24-2020, 01:05 AM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
In my opinion a FX-Container doesn´t need to be as complex as Patcher (graphics, cords,....)
Just look at Ableton`s or Bitwig`s "FX/Instrument Layer" they are absolutly amazing.
(Maybe it isn´t as obvious (I cut too much of the screenshots away), but the shown FX and Synth in the pics are contained in the selected track of the FX- or Instrumet-Layer... and with the Mid-Side Container the EQ is inside the "Side" :-) )
Instrument Layer:
FX-Layer:
Mid-Side Container:
Last edited by operator; 07-24-2020 at 01:20 AM.
|
|
|
12-13-2020, 04:43 AM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: depends
Posts: 23
|
+1 for this FR!
or at least, in the meantime, the possibility to colour FX names in the chain.
the tree view above is all that's needed! would also be a good idea for the devs to go develop on MPL's Wired Chain extension, there's a huge demand for that and this kind of view has become a standard in many routing applications nowadays.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209768
i understand some prefer the old-fashioned way (i like it too sometimes, for less complex tasks) but when dealing with rather complex routings, it becomes pretty cumbersome... sometimes you actually have to write down pin numbers in order to not get lost.
i'm using the open source app Element mentioned above (or you can just pay 2$ if you don't want to bother compiling the master app and the plugins), it's pretty powerful actually and has macros + oversampling, a Lua scripting module, OSC sender/receiver modules and, to connect to the outside, a matrix pin system, just like in Reaper.
only sad point is that there's no way to load JS plugins on it (at least on macOS, should be doable on Windows with the ReaJS plugin).
another solution is sai'ke's Buzz Machines extension (part of an almost perfect rendition of Jeskola Buzz).
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209761
tho it works on high-level as it creates a track whenever you add an FX (or chain) but basically, on the view, they look like containers. also, you can just hide the "FX tracks" if you don't want to see them.
pretty powerful for complex inter-track routings.
my 79 cents.
|
|
|
12-13-2020, 11:55 AM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 13
|
+1
Also stacking of FX windows (you know, like a rack) and "stickying" channels to left/right in the mixer view (like master buss/AUX) would be by far my MOST requested features and probably not that hard to do.
Please make this happen!
|
|
|
12-14-2020, 01:20 PM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Moscow / Tbilisi
Posts: 909
|
+1!
Of course, splitter, like in Studio One is great, but very complicated with reapers 64 channels on track. What if i need to have more than 2 channels in folder?
Ok, would be great step right now to make just fx-chain folders, which give only visual clear and comping ability.
|
|
|
12-19-2020, 12:43 PM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
unfortunetly it's hard for me to see how this going to happen before 2030.
there are request for this kind of feature from 10 years ago and we are still with the windows95 look of the fxwindow...
anyway +10000 for having this feature of course. will help me more than anything.
|
|
|
12-19-2020, 02:58 PM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZpercussion
. What if i need to have more than 2 channels in folder?
|
And up to 16 Midi Buses
-Michael
|
|
|
12-19-2020, 04:00 PM
|
#23
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
|
Full Full Full support from me too.
For sound design and more complex effects chains its a must have.
PLease make it happen devs
|
|
|
01-04-2021, 12:32 PM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 44
|
I'm still waiting, and I believe that someday it will be done.
|
|
|
01-04-2021, 12:49 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogi
I'm still waiting, and I believe that someday it will be done.
|
we all do
|
|
|
01-05-2021, 07:29 AM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 138
|
+1
if the container also works for multiple Rs5k instances.
|
|
|
01-05-2021, 11:01 AM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 7
|
Vote +1 for this!
|
|
|
01-07-2021, 09:03 AM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
I took a look at Studio One´s Splitter... and it is quite nice! I would love to have somthing like this in Reaper. Also, I am curious what the Devs might think about something like this. It would fit so well with the current Reaper workflow in the FX-Window (earlier post above)...
Here the video I watched, very well explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6bVE_eNddI
Reaper for me is already complete and I just go with the ride/vision the Devs have. They do/did an outstanding job. Just look at the current addition of the Razor Edit. But still this is a wish... and for me it would make the same Impact as Razor Edit did. (A huge one.)
But only time tells if and when we´ll get it...
|
|
|
01-08-2021, 12:44 AM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,501
|
+1 for some kind of solution!
|
|
|
01-08-2021, 01:42 AM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Wool
+1 for some kind of solution!
|
Plus one! Eugene one is almost perfect but few bug exist
__________________
🙏🏻
|
|
|
01-08-2021, 07:01 AM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
|
Since we have the Track wiring (I admit i see no use for it as it is now) this could be achieved easy , no ?
I mean, not yet, but with a few twists on the native code here and there. Maybe.
|
|
|
01-20-2021, 09:33 AM
|
#32
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 44
|
I am surprised as to why the request is not extremely popular. It can be seen that many would like this, but I thought this topic would be more popular.
In my opinion, in Reaper, with its advanced routing, such FX Container are something that should have been done long ago.
It also seems to me that Track Wiring does not make much sense. It would be great if the energy spent on creating the Track Wiring was spent on creating the FX Container.
Although I hope that the FX Container will be more convenient than the Track Wiring. 😀
|
|
|
01-20-2021, 02:36 PM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 19
|
+1 I came from ableton, and absolutely love reaper, but this is one of the things I really miss.
|
|
|
01-22-2021, 08:26 AM
|
#34
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogi
I am surprised as to why the request is not extremely popular. It can be seen that many would like this, but I thought this topic would be more popular.
In my opinion, in Reaper, with its advanced routing, such FX Container are something that should have been done long ago.
It also seems to me that Track Wiring does not make much sense. It would be great if the energy spent on creating the Track Wiring was spent on creating the FX Container.
Although I hope that the FX Container will be more convenient than the Track Wiring. 😀
|
I couldn´t have said it better... I pray for this feature every day...
|
|
|
01-22-2021, 08:40 AM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Austria, near Lake Constance
Posts: 453
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by marine289
+1 I came from ableton, and absolutely love reaper, but this is one of the things I really miss.
|
Once you have worked with FX containers it becomes very apparent how essential they are to have control over the different asspects/layers of a sound.
It is a Mixing-Tool which introduces several/nummerous new mixing techniques which in my case are VERY important nowadays. ---> like ducking the Reverb- or Delay-Tails when the Dry sound is playing. And this is just one of MANY things in which such Tool improves the general sound of a mix.
I also got used to this worklow-luxury (but in Bitwig)... Once you go Container you can´t go back... :-P
|
|
|
01-22-2021, 11:04 AM
|
#36
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 85
|
+1
Definitely ... probably my biggest wish at the moment.
I can imagine display in TCP and MCP like this
+ all the features you can find in Ableton or Bitwig, like mix knob
It would also solve mixer fixed slots to some point ...
|
|
|
01-22-2021, 12:53 PM
|
#37
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
|
Ohh yes ohh yes but like in the next image:
- Simple! also, a complementary request: Freeze is not applied on POST CHAIN. So per example if EQ and compressor are in the post chain of track. After freezing this track, both are kept on the freezed track as last chain too. Unfreezing they stay in the last chain too. A HUGE Benefit.
Check: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....61#post2393361
__________________
🙏🏻
Last edited by deeb; 01-22-2021 at 01:13 PM.
|
|
|
01-22-2021, 01:29 PM
|
#38
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
|
i quite like this mockup list too! And for the reasons i posted in last message with this added with be ***** Top top *****
__________________
🙏🏻
|
|
|
01-23-2021, 08:24 AM
|
#39
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
|
honestly you are wasting your time...
it is not even close to what it should be with a modular fx routings where you can write and read amazing presets.
|
|
|
01-23-2021, 08:56 AM
|
#40
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
honestly you are wasting your time...
it is not even close to what it should be with a modular fx routings where you can write and read amazing presets.
|
Is my point of view and in my point of view i prefer like this. Simple. I prefer how Ableton/Bitwig implements this then FL Studio style. No arrows inputs/outputs and blablabla , that in the end do the same , with more work and taking more screen space. So IMO it just look better with no real benefit.
Also the approach i described and (last 2 posts) + operator mockup gives benefits like this:
- Save All Fx as Default Pre Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Main Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Pos Chain
- Action: Freeze Track including Pre Fx Chain and Main Fx Chain
- Action: Freeze Track including Pre Fx Chain and Main Fx Chain to new version
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=213008
Also: Preset is preset however it's implemented.
Also i agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
In my opinion a FX-Container doesn´t need to be as complex as Patcher (graphics, cords,....)
Just look at Ableton`s or Bitwig`s "FX/Instrument Layer" they are absolutly amazing.
|
I am not right or wrong neither you are.
__________________
🙏🏻
Last edited by deeb; 01-23-2021 at 09:17 AM.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:43 PM.
|