Old 10-28-2019, 07:48 AM   #1
Ozman
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Default FX Container`

This is a simple request for a Plugin Container.
It could contain any FX chain as a single FX instance.
As well as provide oversampling for the entire chain/instance.
This would be quite useful for the following:

- Mixing FX chains, FX chains for individual Tracks
- Easier organizing of FX chains, especially when multiple FX are used for actually
one "effect".
- Easily employable oversampling for ANY FX instance or chain (VST and JSFX alike).
- Moving group of FX up and down the FX chain can be made easier, being that any group of FX can be gathered into a single "FX Container" instance.

The GUI of this FX Container can be done in various ways.
I'm thinking, maybe a simple wired view (like Blender's Nodes, Bidule, ImageLine's MiniHost, DDMF's MetaPlugin, MPL's FX Wiring script, and Reaper's own Track Wiring View).

Please consider. I truly believe that adding such an FX container would be a improvement for MANY workflows.

- oz
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:54 AM   #2
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Combining FXes to "Macros" already has been requested several times.

Additionally to the specs above, definable "macro" parameters (that feed the internal effect's parameters via an appropriate set of selectable functions) seems appropriate.

Anyway this is not a "simple" request but a whole new feature (i.e. can of worms).

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 10-30-2019 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 10-30-2019, 05:42 AM   #3
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Understood.
Well, hopefully, something can be done to help.
The reason this way of thinking came back to me is that I was working on my own channel strip and noticed the aliasing introduced from the saturation.

I figured that using a tool like DDMF's Metaplugin may help when needing to oversample a chain of VST Fx. However, this approach cannot be used for Reaper's own JSFX instances.

I'm hoping for somehow oversampling on a track can be done as well as some form of FX Container or Mini-host can be crafted to reduce MCP real-estate as well as the other benefits.

Anyways... Maybe they can just open the API up (for possible inner FX hosting and/or cross-project (PiP) communication) and let some script developers come up with these hierarchical tools.
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Old 05-24-2020, 05:15 AM   #4
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Full support for this FR! The container. Macros. The wired interface inside sounds like dream for sound design!
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Old 05-24-2020, 06:39 AM   #5
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For your information: several commercial VST-plugin-as-a-host solutions already exist. Like MuTools MUX Modular or DDMF MetaPlugin (this one even supports oversampling).

This is not to say that Reaper's native implementation wouldn't be welcome.
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Old 05-24-2020, 07:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nappies View Post
The wired interface inside sounds like dream for sound design!
To me a "wire interface" (aka Spaghetti GUI) is a nightmare. But of course it does not harm if it's purely optional.
(And of course an oversampling option can't be done non-natively, and might be very welcome in certain instances).
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 12-13-2020 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtmanActive View Post
For your information: several commercial VST-plugin-as-a-host solutions already exist. Like MuTools MUX Modular or DDMF MetaPlugin (this one even supports oversampling).
I bought bought all the vst chainers available ! And every of it have small bug or unavailable of key opportunities.For example automatic DPC available only in DDMF. But in mostly convenient and free kushview element chainer DPC is not avaible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
To me a "wire interface" (aka Spaghetti GUI) is a nightmare. But of course it does not harm if it's purely optional.
(And of course an oversampling option can'r be done non-natively, and might be very welcome in certain instances).
-Michael
Using multiple nested containers as in the bidule or in the aforementioned
kushview element eliminates this nightmare. By the way in kushview element there is a matrix representation of routing.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:39 AM   #8
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Vote +1 for this FR
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:12 PM   #9
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+1 I'm workarounding by using Fx tracks and routing, but it's not very ergonomic.

The oversampling part I think that doesn't belong there...
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:14 PM   #10
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I registered on this forum in order to create a topic with the same request.
There is really not enough in the Reaper some kind of container for FX, some kind of folder for the chain of FX.

I fully support this request!
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Old 07-01-2020, 09:45 AM   #11
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Guys, is it worth the wait, some kind of development is being carried out in this direction, have the developers commented on this somehow? Maybe they plan to create a FX container?
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:26 PM   #12
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I imagine it could be quite easy for the Devs to code an FX-Container...
e.g.: I always use multiple channels (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 --> three chains: Dry, Reverb and Delay) as different FX-Container-Channels in a single track.. this works quite well... BUT setting up the Pin-Connector on every single VST bumms me out *ggrrrrrrrr*... also to manage the routing and keep track what goes where can be hard at some point.. especially when working with a lot of FX.

So the only thing we would need is an FX that automaticaly sets up the routing and summs it again afterward (Splitter and Merger in one FX) ---> then we would also need some margins for the FX inside the FX-Container "Folder" (see pic) to make it pleasent for the eye... AND also, it would be great if the Pin-Connector setup would be set automaticaly if one would place the FX in a channel in the container.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg reaper container.jpg (58.6 KB, 354 views)

Last edited by operator; 07-23-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:18 PM   #13
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Default +1

Yes, +1.

There are large sessions and it gets really messy to have that many parallel tracks/fx. Maybe it wasn't necessary a while ago, but now things have gotten larger and more complex.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:51 PM   #14
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something like patcher will be just awesome.

can use patcher inside a patcher inside a patcher...and make a surface control table which is also great.

unlimited and very organized.

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Old 07-23-2020, 02:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaniBani View Post
Yes, +1.

There are large sessions and it gets really messy to have that many parallel tracks/fx. Maybe it wasn't necessary a while ago, but now things have gotten larger and more complex.
Especially as Justin himself said in a recent podcast (that got posted somewhere in the forum), that when working with multicore processor it may be better to have individual reverbs (convolution) on every singal track than having routing and therefore dependencies going on.

In electronic music most artists work already mostly with individual reverbs on every singel track for better control (except maybe for some tracks there is only a tiny little bit of reverb on the folder-track for some glueing effect).

An FX-Container would allow to have a 100% Dry Layer and a 100% Wet Reverb Layer... the Reverb Layer then can be shaped further with EQ, Side-Chain-Compression from Dry Signal, Compression, StereoFX, or whatever... Just look at all the creative Ableton FX-Container-Devices (Presets) which are out there... FunFact: the VST "Sausage Fattner" (if anybody knows it... stupid little device... :-P) is an Ableton-FX-Container-Preset from Dada Life that got turned into a plugin.

I need to agree that Image Line Patcher is quite sweet... but something like this would only be usable if it would support PDC... In the beginning of Patcher it didn´t supported PDC (when using it outside of FL as VST), if I´m not changing up memories... maybe I´m wrong with this...
Another thing Patcher is lacking is simple Crossovers to create MultibandFX...

Last edited by operator; 07-23-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:27 PM   #16
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Default Examples - trends - requirements

The "splitter" (which is way way more than splitter) from Presonus Studio One is absolutely fantastic. That would be an integrated solution. The other option would be a plugin like patcher from FL Studio which is also extraordinary.

This is a comprehensive video on the splitter from S1 https://marcus-huyskens-music.com/mh...nus-studio-one

And well... the FL Studio patcher is pretty popular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFA1heT-cao

Also Waves did one only for waves plugins (which renders it unusable in the long run) called Waves Studio Rack

It really is an essential tool!
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:05 AM   #17
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In my opinion a FX-Container doesn´t need to be as complex as Patcher (graphics, cords,....)

Just look at Ableton`s or Bitwig`s "FX/Instrument Layer" they are absolutly amazing.

(Maybe it isn´t as obvious (I cut too much of the screenshots away), but the shown FX and Synth in the pics are contained in the selected track of the FX- or Instrumet-Layer... and with the Mid-Side Container the EQ is inside the "Side" :-) )

Instrument Layer:



FX-Layer:



Mid-Side Container:


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Old 12-13-2020, 04:43 AM   #18
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+1 for this FR!
or at least, in the meantime, the possibility to colour FX names in the chain.

the tree view above is all that's needed! would also be a good idea for the devs to go develop on MPL's Wired Chain extension, there's a huge demand for that and this kind of view has become a standard in many routing applications nowadays.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209768

i understand some prefer the old-fashioned way (i like it too sometimes, for less complex tasks) but when dealing with rather complex routings, it becomes pretty cumbersome... sometimes you actually have to write down pin numbers in order to not get lost.

i'm using the open source app Element mentioned above (or you can just pay 2$ if you don't want to bother compiling the master app and the plugins), it's pretty powerful actually and has macros + oversampling, a Lua scripting module, OSC sender/receiver modules and, to connect to the outside, a matrix pin system, just like in Reaper.
only sad point is that there's no way to load JS plugins on it (at least on macOS, should be doable on Windows with the ReaJS plugin).

another solution is sai'ke's Buzz Machines extension (part of an almost perfect rendition of Jeskola Buzz).
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209761

tho it works on high-level as it creates a track whenever you add an FX (or chain) but basically, on the view, they look like containers. also, you can just hide the "FX tracks" if you don't want to see them.
pretty powerful for complex inter-track routings.

my 79 cents.
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Old 12-13-2020, 11:55 AM   #19
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+1

Also stacking of FX windows (you know, like a rack) and "stickying" channels to left/right in the mixer view (like master buss/AUX) would be by far my MOST requested features and probably not that hard to do.

Please make this happen!
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Old 12-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #20
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+1!
Of course, splitter, like in Studio One is great, but very complicated with reapers 64 channels on track. What if i need to have more than 2 channels in folder?

Ok, would be great step right now to make just fx-chain folders, which give only visual clear and comping ability.
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Old 12-19-2020, 12:43 PM   #21
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unfortunetly it's hard for me to see how this going to happen before 2030.
there are request for this kind of feature from 10 years ago and we are still with the windows95 look of the fxwindow...



anyway +10000 for having this feature of course. will help me more than anything.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZpercussion View Post
. What if i need to have more than 2 channels in folder?
And up to 16 Midi Buses

-Michael
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Old 12-19-2020, 04:00 PM   #23
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Full Full Full support from me too.
For sound design and more complex effects chains its a must have.
PLease make it happen devs
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:32 PM   #24
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I'm still waiting, and I believe that someday it will be done.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I'm still waiting, and I believe that someday it will be done.
we all do
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:29 AM   #26
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+1

if the container also works for multiple Rs5k instances.
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:01 AM   #27
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Vote +1 for this!
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:03 AM   #28
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I took a look at Studio One´s Splitter... and it is quite nice! I would love to have somthing like this in Reaper. Also, I am curious what the Devs might think about something like this. It would fit so well with the current Reaper workflow in the FX-Window (earlier post above)...

Here the video I watched, very well explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6bVE_eNddI



Reaper for me is already complete and I just go with the ride/vision the Devs have. They do/did an outstanding job. Just look at the current addition of the Razor Edit. But still this is a wish... and for me it would make the same Impact as Razor Edit did. (A huge one.)

But only time tells if and when we´ll get it...
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:44 AM   #29
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+1 for some kind of solution!
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Wool View Post
+1 for some kind of solution!
Plus one! Eugene one is almost perfect but few bug exist
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Old 01-08-2021, 07:01 AM   #31
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Since we have the Track wiring (I admit i see no use for it as it is now) this could be achieved easy , no ?
I mean, not yet, but with a few twists on the native code here and there. Maybe.
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Old 01-20-2021, 09:33 AM   #32
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I am surprised as to why the request is not extremely popular. It can be seen that many would like this, but I thought this topic would be more popular.

In my opinion, in Reaper, with its advanced routing, such FX Container are something that should have been done long ago.

It also seems to me that Track Wiring does not make much sense. It would be great if the energy spent on creating the Track Wiring was spent on creating the FX Container.
Although I hope that the FX Container will be more convenient than the Track Wiring. 😀
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:36 PM   #33
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+1 I came from ableton, and absolutely love reaper, but this is one of the things I really miss.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gogi View Post
I am surprised as to why the request is not extremely popular. It can be seen that many would like this, but I thought this topic would be more popular.

In my opinion, in Reaper, with its advanced routing, such FX Container are something that should have been done long ago.

It also seems to me that Track Wiring does not make much sense. It would be great if the energy spent on creating the Track Wiring was spent on creating the FX Container.
Although I hope that the FX Container will be more convenient than the Track Wiring. 😀
I couldn´t have said it better... I pray for this feature every day...
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
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+1 I came from ableton, and absolutely love reaper, but this is one of the things I really miss.
Once you have worked with FX containers it becomes very apparent how essential they are to have control over the different asspects/layers of a sound.

It is a Mixing-Tool which introduces several/nummerous new mixing techniques which in my case are VERY important nowadays. ---> like ducking the Reverb- or Delay-Tails when the Dry sound is playing. And this is just one of MANY things in which such Tool improves the general sound of a mix.

I also got used to this worklow-luxury (but in Bitwig)... Once you go Container you can´t go back... :-P
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:04 AM   #36
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+1

Definitely ... probably my biggest wish at the moment.

I can imagine display in TCP and MCP like this



+ all the features you can find in Ableton or Bitwig, like mix knob


It would also solve mixer fixed slots to some point ...
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:53 PM   #37
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Ohh yes ohh yes but like in the next image:
- Simple! also, a complementary request: Freeze is not applied on POST CHAIN. So per example if EQ and compressor are in the post chain of track. After freezing this track, both are kept on the freezed track as last chain too. Unfreezing they stay in the last chain too. A HUGE Benefit.
Check: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....61#post2393361

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Old 01-22-2021, 01:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
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i quite like this mockup list too! And for the reasons i posted in last message with this added with be ***** Top top *****


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Old 01-23-2021, 08:24 AM   #39
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honestly you are wasting your time...

it is not even close to what it should be with a modular fx routings where you can write and read amazing presets.
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:56 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
honestly you are wasting your time...

it is not even close to what it should be with a modular fx routings where you can write and read amazing presets.
Is my point of view and in my point of view i prefer like this. Simple. I prefer how Ableton/Bitwig implements this then FL Studio style. No arrows inputs/outputs and blablabla , that in the end do the same , with more work and taking more screen space. So IMO it just look better with no real benefit.

Also the approach i described and (last 2 posts) + operator mockup gives benefits like this:
- Save All Fx as Default Pre Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Main Chain
- Save All Fx as Default Pos Chain
- Action: Freeze Track including Pre Fx Chain and Main Fx Chain
- Action: Freeze Track including Pre Fx Chain and Main Fx Chain to new version

https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=213008


Also: Preset is preset however it's implemented.

Also i agree with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
In my opinion a FX-Container doesn´t need to be as complex as Patcher (graphics, cords,....)

Just look at Ableton`s or Bitwig`s "FX/Instrument Layer" they are absolutly amazing.
I am not right or wrong neither you are.
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