This looks amazing, this is something I've been looking to make myself so I'd definitely be interested in purchasing one, added myself to the list.
One question - I realised the majority of users would prefer smooth encoders, but for my application (mastering) I tend to work in 0.5dB increments. So course steps would be much easier to work with. I wondered if this could be a custom option.
I may be able to substitute the smooth encoders for detented encoders. I would have to ask when I order the batch, but not sure what the manufacturer would say. I'll ask for sure. (also, do note that there is a clicking sound when your turn the encoders with the detented encoders)
I may be able to substitute the smooth encoders for detented encoders. I would have to ask when I order the batch, but not sure what the manufacturer would say. I'll ask for sure. (also, do note that there is a clicking sound when your turn the encoders with the detented encoders)
Thank you for your interest.
The tricky bit is that there is likely a user assumption that the detents will line up with something familiar -- for instance, EskoMastering mentions working with 0.5db per click -- that will likely require one hell of a mapping effort, getting every plugin's custom steps to be exactly 0.5db, lined up perfectly with the detents.
Might be worth clarifying what the user actually expects here
Just my 2c
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This looks amazing, this is something I've been looking to make myself so I'd definitely be interested in purchasing one, added myself to the list.
One question - I realised the majority of users would prefer smooth encoders, but for my application (mastering) I tend to work in 0.5dB increments. So course steps would be much easier to work with. I wondered if this could be a custom option.
Although it won't make the control feel different, it's easy to configure an fx.zon file so that a parameter moves in 'steps' of any size.
Although it won't make the control feel different, it's easy to configure an fx.zon file so that a parameter moves in 'steps' of any size.
Thats good to know. That was my next question
I'd really only be mapping it to one EQ plugin with the 0.5dB increments. It wouldn't need to be exact if I knew a rough step value.
I find if I start stressing over tiny moves that I'm fooling myself mostly. I can work a bit faster if I know every change is meaningful and can operate it with my eyes shut, couple of clicks and I'm done.
How many positions do the detented encoders you were using previously have?
I'd really only be mapping it to one EQ plugin with the 0.5dB increments. It wouldn't need to be exact if I knew a rough step value.
I find if I start stressing over tiny moves that I'm fooling myself mostly. I can work a bit faster if I know every change is meaningful and can operate it with my eyes shut, couple of clicks and I'm done.
How many positions do the detented encoders you were using previously have?
I believe the previous encoders had 30 Detent positions. It was either that or 15 so I went with more of course.
In the photo, you have the new metal labels between the modifier/transport button row and the bottom row of OLED displays. Is this where you plan to put the indents in the case for fixing them?
Ergonomically, I think BELOW the modifier/transport button row is the place for them on this unit.
Elsewhere on the controller, the OLED screens will be displaying information about the rotary ABOVE them, so I think it makes logical sense to have the physical labels also displaying info about the button ABOVE them, not below.
Hope this makes sense?
Andy
Hi Andy,
I did see that you asked about the labels. I wasn't avoiding the question. I wanted to get you guys an image of the new controller, but it's taking me longer to do that. Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll have something to show you.
But that photo was just the previous prototype and that was a place I could place the labels. In the new design, they will be below the LED buttons, so it will be very clear as to which button they are referring to.
I'm please to introduced the final design for the E24 controller from SiniCon LLC.
The case has been order and all the other parts are either being manufactured or have already been finished and are awaiting the rest of the parts to be tested. As soon as we have 2 working prototypes and we can test the firmware (which should be 1 or 2 days after all parts have been delivered, we will begin taking orders.
I'm pretty excited to say the least as this has been a long and arduous project. Longer than I anticipated, but I'm sure way faster than most could have achieved. I want to thank my developer publicly for all the hard work he has put and all the hours trying to figure out how to make all my requirements a reality.
I also want to thank Geoff Waddington, Funkybot, Mixmonkey, and all those who have helped shaped CSI to what it is today. (please forgive me if I didn't mentioned you specifically. It was unintentional)
And Finally, I want to thank all those of you who have been interested and excited about this product. Without those encouraging words and show of interest I may have decided not to follow through and get this thing done.
Well, without any more delay, here are the images. (not the best 3D renderings, but I'm just learning this new software. So I did my best)
Thanks for the previous answer and the pictures. Congratulations on getting so near to the release date!
I'm confused a little by what I'm seeing in the pictures....
It looks to me as though there are now two rows of buttons at the bottom, which are different, and no room for the metal labels? (EDIT: am looking on my phone and just zoomed in more so I now see the groove for the label). I thought there would only be one row, but maybe I missed something in the discussion...
The second row up of buttons looks to sit very far out out of the case, does it need to be this high or could it have a sleeker profile by being closer to flush with the surface?
Any explanation of those two rows gratefully received...
Thanks for the previous answer and the pictures. Congratulations on getting so near to the release date!
I'm confused a little by what I'm seeing in the pictures....
It looks to me as though there are now two rows of buttons at the bottom, which are different, and no room for the metal labels? (EDIT: am looking on ky phone and just zoomed in more so I now see the groove for the label). I thought there would only be one row, but maybe I missed something in the discussion...
The second row up of buttons looks to sit very far out out of the case, does it need to be this high or could it have a sleeker profile by being closer to flush with the surface?
Any explanation of those two rows gratefully received...
Thanks
Hi Andy,
Again, thanks so much for your interest. I'd be happy to elaborate.
There are two rows of buttons for a total of 16 buttons. Let me explain. I first had the idea of only having 1 row of buttons (8). These would be full RGB LED buttons. Unfortunately when we made the 1st prototype, I couldn't find RGB buttons and my developer found buttons with 7 or 8 colors (I can't remember which it was). So I told him to just use those for the first prototype. Unfortunately there were a few problems with those.
1st, they were horrible quality. I wouldn't put my name on a product with those unless perhaps it was a $5 calculator. I had trouble finding caps for them and when we finally did, they were horrible and wouldn't stay on properly.
2nd, after testing out the software I quickly realized that I STILL needed to print labels and put them on the unit to remember what these buttons did. Part of the reason I wanted individual OLED screens for each encoder was to avoid having to custom print home made labels. I feel they look horrible, are always crooked and I just hate them.
In my search for full RGB LED buttons I came across buttons that they themselves had an OLED screen on them. This would solve the issue of labels. At first I didn't want to use them because they cost a lot. In fact I found out they were developed and patented in 2020, so very new technology and therefore they cost a lot. But after the label ordeal, I just decided to make the best controller out there and spend what it took to do it.
The second row of button came about because I felt so guilty using 4 of the OLED Buttons for Modifier duties. Essentially, most people would want 4 modifier buttons (Shift, Control, Alt, Option) but these buttons should always remain in the same location. Basically, without the second row of LED buttons, I would be underutilizing the first 4 OLED buttons. So I decided to add 8 more buttons.
The metal label idea came to me because I still wanted to avoid having custom labels. If people hate custom labels as myself, they can get the metal ones. What's nice about them is that they are made of iron and the case will have magnets that will keep them in place. But if people just wanted to print their own, they can just buy the 6mm P-Touch clear tape with white letters and place them in the indent created for the metal labels. This will avoid the crooked labels and the clear tape will minimize seeing the crooked edges on the cut of the label sides.
People can also choose to get the metal labels and print clear P-Touch labels and place them on the back of the metal labels so they can have repositionable labels with their own custom text. This I felt was the best of both worlds.
As far as the height, the OLED buttons have a nice travel to them, so putting them flush with the case will not work. Also they are much taller than the previous buttons. In fact the PCB Board that houses these buttons is being placed 10mm below the top face of the enclosure already. I did this to make sure they were lower than the Encoders, they didn't block the Encoder OLED screens, while still remaining stable and not making the front of the controller too tall as I wanted to keep the angle.
Thanks, that discussion of the OLED buttons being wasted does ring a bell, but I'd forgotten the outcome was to add another row of simpler ones as well!
Looking forward to seeing the unit "for real" pretty soon :-)
Hi Andy,
Again, thanks so much for your interest. I'd be happy to elaborate.
There are two rows of buttons for a total of 16 buttons. Let me explain. I first had the idea of only having 1 row of buttons (8). These would be full RGB LED buttons. Unfortunately when we made the 1st prototype, I couldn't find RGB buttons and my developer found buttons with 7 or 8 colors (I can't remember which it was). So I told him to just use those for the first prototype. Unfortunately there were a few problems with those.
1st, they were horrible quality. I wouldn't put my name on a product with those unless perhaps it was a $5 calculator. I had trouble finding caps for them and when we finally did, they were horrible and wouldn't stay on properly.
2nd, after testing out the software I quickly realized that I STILL needed to print labels and put them on the unit to remember what these buttons did. Part of the reason I wanted individual OLED screens for each encoder was to avoid having to custom print home made labels. I feel they look horrible, are always crooked and I just hate them.
In my search for full RGB LED buttons I came across buttons that they themselves had an OLED screen on them. This would solve the issue of labels. At first I didn't want to use them because they cost a lot. In fact I found out they were developed and patented in 2020, so very new technology and therefore they cost a lot. But after the label ordeal, I just decided to make the best controller out there and spend what it took to do it.
The second row of button came about because I felt so guilty using 4 of the OLED Buttons for Modifier duties. Essentially, most people would want 4 modifier buttons (Shift, Control, Alt, Option) but these buttons should always remain in the same location. Basically, without the second row of LED buttons, I would be underutilizing the first 4 OLED buttons. So I decided to add 8 more buttons.
The metal label idea came to me because I still wanted to avoid having custom labels. If people hate custom labels as myself, they can get the metal ones. What's nice about them is that they are made of iron and the case will have magnets that will keep them in place. But if people just wanted to print their own, they can just buy the 6mm P-Touch clear tape with white letters and place them in the indent created for the metal labels. This will avoid the crooked labels and the clear tape will minimize seeing the crooked edges on the cut of the label sides.
People can also choose to get the metal labels and print clear P-Touch labels and place them on the back of the metal labels so they can have repositionable labels with their own custom text. This I felt was the best of both worlds.
As far as the height, the OLED buttons have a nice travel to them, so putting them flush with the case will not work. Also they are much taller than the previous buttons. In fact the PCB Board that houses these buttons is being placed 10mm below the top face of the enclosure already. I did this to make sure they were lower than the Encoders, they didn't block the Encoder OLED screens, while still remaining stable and not making the front of the controller too tall as I wanted to keep the angle.
I hope this explains it.
All I can say is WOW, just Wow !!
What a fantastic result for your effort, and a tiny bit of help from the community -- the 16 buttons is, IMHO, the magic number, max flexibility, right up on, but not going over the edge of, too much complexity, what a great design, the labels are sheer genius !!
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Interesting. My new rig, which will delay the purchase of this beauty, has two ethernet ports. Or is that just an 'idea' for now ?
My experience with ethernet controllers has been very positive when it comes to input latency. Procontrol/D-Command&Control/Artist Series/S5&S6.
To be honest with you, the ethernet port hasn't been utilized in the firmware yet. I always intended to have multiple units joined together to make a large controller. (I'll be working on a fader unit in the future)
The idea is to use OSC to be able to communicate with reaper and perhaps take advantage of OSC's flexibility. And I think if I'm having say 16 modules put together that an RJ45 jack will be a more robust connection to transfer data than a USB for so many devices.
How would you connect the 16 devices together using just one Ethernet port per unit? Would you have one "master" unit and then route that through a switch to the others?
How would you connect the 16 devices together using just one Ethernet port per unit? Would you have one "master" unit and then route that through a switch to the others?
I haven't decided yet, but it might be as simple as connecting a network switch to a gigabit port on a computer and have that connect to all the devices. I may decide to provide the switch internally in the master module, but the truth is that I probably couldn't keep the price of that function as low as a dedicated network company. So, my initial thinking is to leave that aspect to the experts. The other reason is that if I put a switch in the master module, people would need to get that master module to join modules. I want to to be as flexible as possible. So buying a switch at your local computer store or even online should give you the capability to join units.
Great, although personally I doubt I'll ever stretch beyond one E24 and one fader unit :-D
Yes, I would think most people will get two, maybe 3 units for their desk. But the vision is to allow people to do what best suits their needs. And be able to grow as your needs grow. Even to the point where a customer may end up with a 128 track unit 10 foot desk. But they can get there little by little. Flexibility is key.
Wow, this looks so impressive and actually a little bit intimidating, but trust me, I'm in. Congrats and I can't wait until you launch this.
Thank you PoetnProphet. I appreciate your support.
And the support of all those people interested. We only have 3 spots left on the waiting list for discounted units. So I'm pretty excited about sales. I'm sure once videos are made of the units at work, more will want to buy. Or at least I'm hoping. Hahahah.
Thank you PoetnProphet. I appreciate your support.
And the support of all those people interested. We only have 3 spots left on the waiting list for discounted units. So I'm pretty excited about sales. I'm sure once videos are made of the units at work, more will want to buy. Or at least I'm hoping. Hahahah.
Thank you again.
Absolutely mazing work! This fills a long empty gap in the market and seems better thought-out and more robust than most of the smaller compelling offerings (like Midi Fighter Twister). Glad I found this before going with a pair of those for CSI.
Is there any email notification for early signup? I've completed the form twice in the past few weeks but haven't received any kind of confirmation that I'm on either the pre-sale or notification lists.
Really looking forward to the final iteration. Any ETA on when production for the first batch will be ready?
Absolutely mazing work! This fills a long empty gap in the market and seems better thought-out and more robust than most of the smaller compelling offerings (like Midi Fighter Twister). Glad I found this before going with a pair of those for CSI.
Is there any email notification for early signup? I've completed the form twice in the past few weeks but haven't received any kind of confirmation that I'm on either the pre-sale or notification lists.
Really looking forward to the final iteration. Any ETA on when production for the first batch will be ready?
Hi B Elgin,
I believe I did see you on the list. I've been meaning to send those who signed up a message but haven't gotten around to it. We are getting very close. I'll be making a post soon about our progress and about taking orders and expected delivery times.
I believe I did see you on the list. I've been meaning to send those who signed up a message but haven't gotten around to it. We are getting very close. I'll be making a post soon about our progress and about taking orders and expected delivery times.
Thank you for your kind word and your interest.
SinoArch
That's great, thanks for the update. Looking forward to any news and some more demonstration videos.
Apologies if I missed it, but what are the final dimensions for the chassis?
Just a quick update. I wanted to share an image and a video of the LED buttons and the OLED buttons.
The colors on the LEDs are fantastic. They are much better than what I had before by a long shot, and the OLED buttons are just amazing. I haven't found any other buttons on the market with better screens on them! These will be very useful and I think you guys will just love them.
I think this is going to be a game changer. There is a huge hole for this type of thing. DON'T LET BEHRINGER RIP YOU OFF! It needed to be said The color buttons definitely opens up new possibilities. I can't wait to try this out, I hope it's soon while I have the $....well, because $ haha.
I think this is going to be a game changer. There is a huge hole for this type of thing. DON'T LET BEHRINGER RIP YOU OFF! It needed to be said The color buttons definitely opens up new possibilities. I can't wait to try this out, I hope it's soon while I have the $....well, because $ haha.
Bring it on Sini!!!
Hi PoetnProphet,
Again, thank you for your kind words, and trust me, I'm rushing to get these out while you still have the money.
Hi Everyone,
Sorry I haven't been posting as much lately. This is the home stretch and we are finalizing things and on top of that I am also working on my studio remodel which is also on the final stages. So, needless to say, I've been pretty busy.
Prototype Case v2.0 is finally completed. I just received photos and a video of it now. They will be shipping it to me shortly. This will also coincide with me receiving the final components as they are also being finalized and tested!
I've completed the MST file for the controller. It is about 8700 lines of text, although it can be condensed some. But it will still be massive.
All the SysEx message syntax has been created as well, and our friendly neighborhood Hero "Geoff" will be working on adding this to CSI. I seriously cannot thank him enough for all his work on CSI and also for incorporating my controller to CSI. I know it's open source, but if I were to try and figure out how to do this myself, I think my head would explode.
We've hit so many bumps on the road and fortunately we have been overcoming every single one. Hasn't been easy but it will be worth it once the first units start to ship. I'm looking forward to that day.
Here are some of the latest photos and videos of production. Hope the next time I post it can be demoing the final Prototype v2.0 and I can begin taking orders.
Prototype Case v2.0
All Components
Closeup of Components
New Main OLED Displays
Thanks again for your interest and once these are out, I hope you can help spread the word.
Looking great!!
I added myself to the list a while back but didn't receive a confirmation. Just wanted to make sure I'm definitely on there...
Thanks EskoMastering.
You are on the list. I've been dragging my feet about sending everyone on the list an email. I actually think all 20 spots are taken up. Or close to, it which is very encouraging as I'm contemplating the next module in the future.
Monday all parts are shipping to me. So exciting stuff.
Today I reconnected with a colleague who I had met about 15 years ago. At the time he was composing and mixing for film. He was also working with a manufacturer that was making a digital console. Similar to slate digital raven mit2, but before Slate ever had the idea. I remember being impressed with the unit and wondering why they had given him one to review and test. The thing was over 4-5k. Today I come to find out that he has been in software programming and hardware developing for a long time. In fact he stopped his music degree when he was young, to go work with Robert Moog and build and develop some of the famous synthesizer. I saw a picture with him and "Bob". Pretty cool.
Anyway, just thought I'd share that serendipitous connection. We'll be keeping in touch. Who knows, maybe he'll help with porting this controller to other DAWS. That last digital console he was working was flirting with Euphonics before they got bought out by Avid.
I'll be sending an email soon.
Edit: That controller he was given to demo and test was a SmartAV Tango. I see now that it was more in the price range of $6-8k. Just wanted to reveal that. Looking at videos of it, it seems it was pretty revolutionary back then and frankly, even today. Sad to hear they went out of business.
Just posted on the CSI design thread about a special Zone type.
Please have a look and help us design the perfect Zone format to get the most out of this wonderful unit !
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Zone "SomeZone"
SomeWidget FXParamValueDisplay "3" { 150 25 100 34 34 34 }
Zone End
Using the Properties way:
Code:
Zone "SomeZone"
SomeWidget FXParamValueDisplay "3"
Property+SomeWidget Color 150 25 100
Property+SomeWidget BackgroundColor 34 34 34
Zone End
@siniarch, please check that you get the same results either way -- make sure to remove the {} version when testing the properties method
If this works, the old method will be removed from SCE24_Text so that the Properties concept for both the SCE24 and any other surfaces that support Properties is consistent.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Thanks so much. I actually had a super busy day yesterday. It was the last day my worker was around to complete my studio remodel. That kept me from doing much with the controller.
But today I finally finished putting it together. Take a look.
Rather than install REAPER in my freshly installed windows desktop, I will test this CSI with my older laptop. Hope that will avoid any more delays.
The unit is looking fantastic and it feels like a tank. It's 3.8lbs but I swear it feel like 6 or 7. I'll keep you posted on what I find. (btw. I think I added my own special sound FXs when I turned it on. The unit does not make that whoosh sound. Hahahaha)