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10-04-2008, 05:08 AM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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wow, amazing.
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10-04-2008, 11:09 AM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,310
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Simply what's missing!!
Mr Brice, simply "great great work". as many folks here, i'm wishing and can't wait to see your proposition become reality in Reaper. Justin & Co please, make this possible!!!!
No words!!!! Keep up the great work!!!
Cheers!
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10-04-2008, 11:45 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: swing on the spiral of our divinity
Posts: 2,242
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Please let this be real tomorrow morning
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10-04-2008, 11:54 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberience
Please let this be real tomorrow morning
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I agree. There is nothing i don't like.
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10-04-2008, 03:13 PM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,562
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Some constructive criticism :
The enlarged track view (that shows the fader) has a lot of visual noise. Tone it down.
1). Replace the continous peak meter with a segmented display.
2). The peak meter needs to be MUCH tinier in footprint. You only want visual feedback, not some huge meter in each track.
If 1). is not possible, completely remove the peak meter. Why? We have the tiny peak meter in the end of the track for quickly detecting red areas.
Second, we have a device called the mixer that has the full peak meter view.
3). The M/S and other buttons in each track need to be MUCH smaller. Right now it sorta looks cartoonish. Look at the pro tools track view, for instance.
4). Font - that track font is boring. Something else that looks much nicer could be used.
But overall, it is a stellar job that you have done.
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10-04-2008, 04:32 PM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 736
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This is awesome. Could eliminate some of those "Reaper looks like doggy-doo" posts...
-f
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10-04-2008, 05:08 PM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: JAMAICA
Posts: 492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet
Pornography , We can only look.
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What an entrance!!!
Welcome
On Topic
Welcome back Brice!
great vision and attention to detail as always
I hopewe get there
++1
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10-04-2008, 05:22 PM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
wow, amazing.
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No shite.
If Reaper looked (and behaved) like that it would double in popularity in a month. Not that it's not 'hot' already in the market and deservedly so... but ...
That design would certainly cause a large spike in interest.
There are behaviors beneath those mockups that would take lots of coding though, beyond just the look, there's lots of new functionality there ergonically. This would (I suspect) be a major overhaul at a foundational level.
That is not a skin.
SWEET!!!!!!!!
Has J, C or S commented on the viability of this?
Last edited by Lawrence; 10-04-2008 at 05:30 PM.
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10-04-2008, 05:31 PM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hungary
Posts: 3,129
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brice,
the .reapart (Amalgamation) still looks like a normal Item to me.
i can see its name on your mockup - but i think i'd give names to any .reapart, like "Bass" "Drums" "Percussion" "Vox"..
so i'd like to ask you to find some way to make it clearly different.
(since it opens up a sub-session, its not a simple item.)
i guess we'd be still able to not to see the LOCK icons everytime (i'd turn 'em off, since i never use 'em), i'd rather like to see an icon for showing the Item's "Preserve Pitch When Changing Rate" state.
__________________
panda in the desert
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10-04-2008, 06:30 PM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Wow...
Nice job on stealing ideas from every other DAW... how original! That's definitely what REAPER needs, every other DAW's features!
FX Browser is the only one I'd vote for. Everything else seems completely pointless to me. Especially inline midi editing... STUPID!
Just use some other lame sequencer, they have all that bullshit.
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10-04-2008, 06:45 PM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Wow...
Nice job on stealing ideas from every other DAW... how original! That's definitely what REAPER needs, every other DAW's features!
FX Browser is the only one I'd vote for. Everything else seems completely pointless to me. Especially inline midi editing... STUPID!
Just use some other lame sequencer, they have all that bullshit.
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I agree - what the fuck is Reaper doing with audio anyway - I've seen that shit before too
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10-04-2008, 07:31 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
let's have weather widgets and a calender too!
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+1........
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10-04-2008, 08:07 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 221
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Hmm, has anyone else noticed that the most popular plugins are the ones with fancy graphics? I guess that's just part of being human, to want to see beauty everywhere we look, though having this as a priority in an audio application doesn't quite add up to me!
Realizing such UI changes should be pretty low on the development agenda in my opinion. Current graphics/layout may potentially adversely effect a users vibe or mood i guess, if the user lets it that is. GUI bells and whistles have zero negative effect on the produced sound, unless you let it.
Exterior beauty is merely skin deep. Both in real life and Reaper life its whats going on inside which makes the most difference.
Good luck with getting your ideas realized, and kudos for coming up with some new ideas, who knows what will spawn from them?! The functional ideas are interesting (information bar, media bin..), and maybe we will see a similar refinement one day, but I'd like to think that the real action in reaperland will be taking place under the hood for quite some time.
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10-04-2008, 09:42 PM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
No one's getting all moist and juicy over audio. Folks are getting all sauced in the pants about these so called "features" which are already available in other sequencers.
Since we're at it though, let's have weather widgets and a calender too! That would make REAPER the #1 sequencer.
I've read wayyyyyy to many anecdotes of REAPER being unique. REAPER IS NOT UNIQUE, not in the slightest. It's just another flippin' multitrack sequencer god damn it, and, ... it's programmed incredibly well. There is nothing new here, though, most of it is just the best shit ripped out of the other sequencers, and, ..... there's nothing wrong with that.
But these are not unique ideas, and nothing on this list interests me in the slightest or even makes me raise an eyebrow, despite the impeccable presentation.
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I think you have totally missed the point of this entire thread.
totally.
oh well.
.t
edit: hmmmm i see that somewhere between hitting quote and submit, you have deleted your comments.
Last edited by Tallisman; 10-04-2008 at 09:45 PM.
Reason: hmmm.
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10-05-2008, 03:35 AM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Nice job on stealing ideas from every other DAW... how original! That's definitely what REAPER needs, every other DAW's features!
FX Browser is the only one I'd vote for. Everything else seems completely pointless to me. Especially inline midi editing... STUPID!
Just use some other lame sequencer, they have all that bullshit.
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Hey, Mr. big mouth,
To develop a functional and attractive GUI is not a matter of originality. A GUI is something a user has to work with so yes, it has to be attractive (even if some guys like you don't understand the visual impact), but it has not to be some kind of original artwork. Even if this GUI has some elements you can find in other DAWs it doesn't make it worthless. Far from it! It seems to be a proven concept of design (design - another thing you obviously don't understand). So your objection is pointless.
Quote:
Since we're at it though, let's have weather widgets and a calender too! That would make REAPER the #1 sequencer.
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Nonsense.
Quote:
But these are not unique ideas, and nothing on this list interests me in the slightest or even makes me raise an eyebrow, despite the impeccable presentation.
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As I said earlier it doesn't matter at all if those ideas are 'unique'. And it seems to be very clear that most people here don't think like you. So if this list interests you or not, who cares. If this list makes you raise an eyebrow - who cares.
Last edited by never_mind; 10-05-2008 at 03:37 AM.
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10-05-2008, 05:20 AM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,931
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JUSTIN, SCHWA, GUY WITH THE AWESOME ass AVATAR. ALL THE IDEAS OF THIS GUI NEED TO BE IN REAPER ASAP. IT WOULD MAKE FOR A MUCH CLEANER FASTER EXPERIENCE. SERIOUSLY, THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO START FROM. LET'S START A THREAD WHERE THIS IS THE MAIN IDEA BEHIND THE GUI, IN ALL OF IT'S PRESENT FORM. IT'S BEYOND PERFECT FOR THE WAY THIS DAW WORKS. OF COURSE WHITE TIE WILL GET MAD, BUT THIS SHIT IS PERFECT AND I'M IN NEED OF THE FUNCTIONALITY THIS WILL BRING.
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10-05-2008, 06:38 AM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: swing on the spiral of our divinity
Posts: 2,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Wow...
Nice job on stealing ideas from every other DAW... how original! That's definitely what REAPER needs, every other DAW's features!
FX Browser is the only one I'd vote for. Everything else seems completely pointless to me. Especially inline midi editing... STUPID!
Just use some other lame sequencer, they have all that bullshit.
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You're an idiot. You're shitting on an idea, and you don't even understand it. It's not about stealing features, it's about ORGANISATION!
Everything except the in-line midi editing is already in Reaper, it's just presented nicer in the screenshot idea that Brice has developed. You don't have to like it, but you can shut the fuck up about not liking it, because we're having a party here, see?!
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10-05-2008, 06:52 AM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: france
Posts: 354
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finally some action!!!! some actual comments & critics, even people who hate it!
keyman_sam:
1) how is a segmented meter better? (most people complain about too much info on the meters)
2) the meter could be thiner no doubt, the small meters next to the tracks in the TCP are too small to give any meaningful information other than the track is outputing audio or if it clips.
If the track is enlarged why not make use of the extra space. why would you need to display the mixer to get detailed levels.
I'd like to display even more info in the extra space in the TCP when possible relative to the currently selected item on that track.
3) M/S smaller/bigger is debatable, how is making them smaller useful? it is one of the main function of a track, and should be easy to spot.
4) as I've said earlier I haven't given much thought about the font.
Overall:
If you read my first post, I say that this thread ain't about cosmetics, the "theme" or "general look" of this mockup came as an afterthought, what I'm interested in is the workflow.
beatbybit:
I hear you, and yeah the .reapart could distinguish itself more, it's up to the theme IMO, I'll try and do a better job myself.
about the lock, yeah we could only show it if the item is locked, but that'd mean new users would have to find the option in the menus or learn the shortcut. that's probably up to JCS to decide.
paxophobe:
I'm guilty of stealing ideas from many different other software not just DAWs, this is about workflow, not really features. (softwares I use and find do a good job at GUI are Adobe Lightroom, Adobe After Effects ...)
It's good to follow the footsteps of other apps, apple has guidelines for developpers on how to build UIs, vista did a push for Vista, and they'll add the ribbon (found in office 2007) to other apps in Windows Seven.
Glad at least one of my suggestions pleases you.
As you say some features may be pointless to you, but let's not forget others.
kneelherring:
Once again read my first post, this thread ain't about the "look" but about workflow.
Not a single of my request is a drastic change from how reaper is right now. It's not about making it pretty, this can be done by any themer (and they can do a better job than I did) but making it more user friendly / quicker / ergonomic.
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10-05-2008, 06:57 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 83
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Add ghost notes & custom piano roll grid highlight and I think that would be perfect.
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10-05-2008, 07:07 AM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberience
You're an idiot. You're shitting on an idea, and you don't even understand it. It's not about stealing features, it's about ORGANISATION!
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Sorry for my lack of amicability in my original posts. I tend to get a little over excited sometimes and wind up just saying unfiltered compost heap garbage in a fit of mania.
I think the layout ideas look like Ableton + Logic. I'm not shitting on the idea, I just think that you're no better that the mindset of Steinberg if you just sit around and theorize that what REAPER needs is what "DAW X" has; Inline editing, media browsers, etc, these are old ideas...
With each release of Cubase they tout a bunch of these rehashed ideas from other DAWs as being essential features you "can't live without". These mock ups fall in line with that same mentality. Why not advocate something completely unique and be the outsider instead of rushing to do what the competition has already implemented?
Quote:
To develop a functional and attractive GUI is not a matter of originality. A GUI is something a user has to work with so yes, it has to be attractive (even if some guys like you don't understand the visual impact), but it has not to be some kind of original artwork. Even if this GUI has some elements you can find in other DAWs it doesn't make it worthless. Far from it! It seems to be a proven concept of design (design - another thing you obviously don't understand). So your objection is pointless.
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Borrowing ideas from other programs is fine, and should be done ad nauseum. However, there should be a balance. You probably shouldn't have your software just be something that constantly is playing catchup with every other program in it's demographic. There should be an element to it which other DAWs want to mimic, too.
Protools 8 is just Logic and whatever else. All these software companies just freak out whenever someone comes up with a new feature and within a year all the sequencers have it.
From the looks up the mock up, that same mindset is what is driving the suggestions. For me personally, I'd really like to see some innovation. However if the end result was just imitation, fine, whatever, it's all the same, really.
Even if the answer isn't immediately obviously, I have to believe there is more than one path to accomplishing greater workflow.
Last edited by paxophobe; 10-05-2008 at 02:23 PM.
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10-05-2008, 07:41 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Starship enterprize
Posts: 364
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Where no DAW has been before.
WOW
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10-05-2008, 08:40 AM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
I think the layout ideas look like Ableton + Logic. I'm not shitting on the idea, I just think that you're no better that the mindset of Steinberg if you just sit around and theorize that what REAPER needs is what "DAW X" has; Inline editing, media browsers, etc, these are old ideas....
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Well, this is an interesting point. I came from Cubendo and still use Live from time to time. obviously, since I use Reaper as my main app, I can live without most of these features, but they are missed. In fact living without often means lengthy and convoluted workarounds. Point in case: Look at Bevosss and Mercado_Negro, SWS and Xenakios's combined efforts to get a working pseudo Freeze - a feature from every other daw - nothing original, but needed and dearly missed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
With each release of Cubase they tout a bunch of these rehashed ideas from other DAWs as being essential features you "can't live without".
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This is true, but you are not taking into account one simple, yet ever so crucial distinction: Steinberg doesn't actually listen to its userbase. Cockos does. Nobody actually asked for Soundndframe, the Media bay, abanonment of the FXB/FXP paradigm; many folks are asking for an in-line midi editor and, well basically all the elements of Brices brilliant mockup (not the colours and pretty - icons we have those - but rather the functionality behind the GUI organisation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
I feel like these mockups fall in line with the "feature war" I perceive as going on between every DAW that's currently out there. Why not advocate something completely unique and be the outsider instead of rushing to do what you're competition has already implemented?
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Well, I feel that the wheel's best design is round. so if you need a wheel, best to use a round one. And what distinguishes a Lada from a Lamborghini? Essentially the do the same thing no? (ok so no... but) It is essentially the way the essential bits are presented to the driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Borrowing ideas from other programs is fine, and should be done ad nauseum. However, there should be a balance. You probably shouldn't have your software just be something that constantly is playing catchup with every other program in it's demographic. There should be an element to it which other DAWs want to mimic, too.
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Now them's either fightin' words, or you are not talking about Reaper. Or, you just started using it and have yet to RTFM . Actually, you are correct again, but I feel that Reaper is not merely mimicking and playing catch up. And if you look at the latest offerings form the other producers, you will see the impact of reaper there! No Doubt.
hey by the way, I appreciate the way you have modified your tone. It makes for a way better discussion, IMHO
greetings
.t
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10-05-2008, 08:47 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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WTF?
Man, this thread went into the toilet huh?
I think Brice's mockups are brilliant as functionality is nothing without ergonomics. You can sit in any chair but some chairs actually help you work better huh? Ever wonder why office chairs have wheels?
His ergonomical ideas for Reaper as mocked-up would (imho) greatly improve usability and workflow. His mockups have wheels.
I don't give a rat's ass where they were ripped from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Why not advocate something completely unique and be the outsider instead of rushing to do what you're competition has already implemented?
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Uh... because some things are just proven over time to work really well and shouldn't be discarded simply because you didn't think of it first?
Maybe Reaper's audio tracks should flow top-to-bottom instead of left to right? That would be "completely unique".
They often put the "Reaper Twist" on it so... it's all good.
Last edited by Lawrence; 10-05-2008 at 09:02 AM.
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10-05-2008, 08:48 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On an island in the Pacific.......in Canada.
Posts: 704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Why not advocate something completely unique and be the outsider instead of rushing to do what you're competition has already implemented?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
Borrowing ideas from other programs is fine, and should be done ad nauseum. However, there should be a balance.
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I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel for the sake of being unique personally. What would you say is completely unique?
Me? I'd like to be able to widen a track in the MCP like we make a track larger in the TCP. I don't think this is something for Brice though but Justin.
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10-05-2008, 09:09 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman
This is true, but you are not taking into account one simple, yet ever so crucial distinction: Steinberg doesn't actually listen to its userbase. Cockos does. Nobody actually asked for Soundndframe, the Media bay, abanonment of the FXB/FXP paradigm; many folks are asking for an in-line midi editor and, well basically all the elements of Brices brilliant mockup (not the colours and pretty - icons we have those - but rather the functionality behind the GUI organisation.
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There are some benefits to just going ahead with your vision and not giving a hoot what someone else thinks. Remember, this is Charlie Steinberg's software, not yours. REAPER takes a different approach and let's you be like an employee in the company. It's a cool idea, I dig it, but it's still ultimately Cockos' sequencer, not yours.
I recently had a few outstanding problems with Cubase that went completely unanswered. So, I unfortunately fall into one of the people that would prefer the developer's listen to my complaints because I can be very thorough in my bug reports and if they go unanswered I get really pissed off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman
Well, I feel that the wheel's best design is round. so if you need a wheel, best to use a round one. And what distinguishes a Lada from a Lamborghini? Essentially the do the same thing no? (ok so no... but) It is essentially the way the essential bits are presented to the driver.
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Yeah, I suppose. REAPER is just setting out to be a multi-track and I should leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman
Now them's either fightin' words, or you are not talking about Reaper. Or, you just started using it and have yet to RTFM . Actually, you are correct again, but I feel that Reaper is not merely mimicking and playing catch up. And if you look at the latest offerings form the other producers, you will see the impact of reaper there! No Doubt.
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I was pointing out that brice's borrowing was ethically sound, but, none of the things he was suggesting would really be the envy of any other company since they've since implemented it and have moved past this point. However, I can understand if you just want these features now and don't care about whether or not REAPER is the imitator rather than the innovator...... It ultimately doesn't really matter where the ideas come from.
Still, I for one believe that, while maybe not immediately apparent, there are answers to the problems suggested in this thread that don't require adopting sequencer X's solution. There is more than one solution to every problem and just because you've concluded that sequencer X's solution is the best solution doesn't make the solution infallible.
Last edited by paxophobe; 10-05-2008 at 09:23 AM.
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10-05-2008, 09:19 AM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
However, I for one believe that, while maybe not immediately apparent, there are answers to the "workflow problem" that is being confronted in this thread that don't require taking the solutions from other DAWs.
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Now that's a constructive comment... specific examples please?
Also consider that the current states of the other hosts are a combined evolution of workflow methods that vary a little form host to host. Certain things that seem to be "best case" like automation lanes, "inspectors" with rolling panels for FX etc are slowly finding their way across multiple products... for a good reason... there doesn't seem to be a better way to do those things.
Performer, Cubase, Sonar and others (PT now) are very similar in their use of some of those root "best case" ergonomic methods. I think Brice's mockups are improvements to some of those.
It will be funny though to hear PT users who mocked Cubendo's automation lanes tell me how great they are now that PT has them. Digi finally recognized that this is probably the best way to present multiple or random automation parameters. They're about the 3rd or 4th daw to do that I think. I suspect they looked for a better way and didn't find it.
If you want to edit midi on the timeline alongside audio (and many people do), in-line midi editing is currently the best way to do that. If you have a better method than that please present it... I think you'll find Reaper users are open to any idea.
Last edited by Lawrence; 10-05-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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10-05-2008, 09:36 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Now that's a constructive comment... specific examples please?
Also consider that the current states of the other hosts are a combined evolution of workflow methods that vary a little form host to host. Certain things that seem to be "best case" like automation lanes, "inspectors" with rolling panels for FX etc are slowly finding their way across multiple products... for a good reason... there doesn't seem to be a better way to do those things.
Performer, Cubase, Sonar and others (PT now) are very similar in their use of some of those root "best case" ergonmoic methods.
If you want to edit midi on the timeline alongside audio (and many people do), in-line midi editing is currently the best way to do that. If you have a better method than that please present it... I think you'll find Reaper users are open to any idea.
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It's not my job to solve whatever problems are being theorized to exist in REAPER in this thread. Even if I did have radically different ideas about workflow, do you think it would be wise to just blurt them out on a forum? What if in two years I said enough was enough and decided I wanted to design my own sequencer. That'd be pretty lame of me.
No, I am merely just rephrasing aka "trying to make right" what I originally blurted out on this thread and that idea, while not at all obvious in my angry post, was; be original in your thinking. Taking ideas from Logic and Cubase is ethically sound and all, but there's more to this idiom than just playing "feature catch-up".
I can understand that you just wanna use what works, but don't forget there are original solutions, too, and even if you can't fathom them immediately doesn't mean they don't exist.
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10-05-2008, 09:59 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
It's not my job to solve whatever problems are being theorized to exist in REAPER in this thread. Even if I did have radically different ideas about workflow, do you think it would be wise to just blurt them out on a forum? What if in two years I said enough was enough and decided I wanted to design my own sequencer. That'd be pretty lame of me.
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With due respect, when you enter a conversation about someone else's ideas and generally call someone's ideas and hard work b.s. and copycat and un-original ... you should probably have at least one original idea of your own to offer in contrast.
If you look at Brice's mockups and read his descriptions of how he sees some of these things working, there are some original ideas in there, based on existing proven functionality. Many original ideas are based on exisiting ideas in some way no? Like, well what if it also did... this?
"Hmmm... I (nor anyone else) never thought of that... cool."
All cars had wipers but one guy thought... "Hmmm... what if they were intermittent for those times when it's raining just a little bit?" A great idea based on existing functionality... an extension and a great and original idea.
No offense intended but ... what you're saying is...
"This all is copy-cat bullshit... you people should be able to think of something better and truly unique. I can't personally help you do that (or I will pretend I actually can and maybe have already but I won't share it with you here so you won't steal it and get rich on my really great idea...) but you should do that."
Ok. I can see how that could be motivational and helpful. Thanks. I'm gonna put on my thinking cap and get right on it.
Last edited by Lawrence; 10-05-2008 at 10:30 AM.
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10-05-2008, 10:27 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
With due respect, when you enter a conversation about someone else's ideas and generally call someone's ideas and hard work b.s. and copycat and un-original ... you should probably have at least one original idea of your own to offer in contrast.
No offense intended but ... what you're saying is...
"This all is copy-cat bullshit... you people should be able to think of something better and truly unique. I can't personally help you do that (or I will pretend I actually can and maybe have already but I won't share it with you here so you won't steal it and get rich on my really great idea...) but you should do that.
Ok. I can see how that could be helpful. Thanks. I'm gonna put on my thinking cap and get right on it.
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That's just what you're inferring and you're wrong. I'd share my ideas if I felt like they were beneficial to REAPER without being "too good of an idea". But I don't have any ideas that fall into that category, so I have nothing to share or contribute. But to impose a ruleset where I _have_ to offer up a suggestion is just moral BS. I am free to dislike the ideas and I don't owe anyone anything.
You also tout a simple flaw in logic in that if someone works hard on something they should be rewarded which just simply isn't true. I could spent 20 years on a symphony and what does it matter if in the end if it's terrible?
Whenever there's a definitive sound that comes into focus during any point in music history, the natural response of pretty much every musician is "wow, that's an awesome sound, I want a piece of that action". Ultimately those these musicians are forgotten or are of little consequence and the innovator, whether it be The Beatles or David Bowie, are the ones that get the credit.
When I opened up this thread, after reading the whole thing I was pretty appalled. It reminded me so much of just every other company, showing off it's "new features" while none of them are particularly new or even that revolutionary. I can't really relate to why I was so angry about the whole thing today, but I know that I get upset when I listen to the radio and someone touts some new artist as being revolutionary and it's just the same old rehash. I also get angry when I read Digidesign/Steinberg press releases that try and make their products sound all forward thinking and essential to my life or workflow. It's just the usual same thing... one or two new unessential things which each sequencer adopts in some shape or form, and a GUI overhaul.
I think the same thing here. Its silly to expect me to speak in regards to anyones feeling but my own. I didn't like the ideas presented. Period. I don't value being an imitator. I didn't go about stating that in a PC, friendly way, either. I just flat out said the idea was stupid. Today, eh, I think perhaps I should have completely ignored this thread, but whatever. At the time I was angry. I don't work at Cockos so I am not interested in making REAPER the best it can be for "everyone". I am speaking for what's best for me and that's the only person I can account for.
Making REAPER a Cubase/Logic/Live hybrid fusion, as proposed here, just makes it another sequencer in the "feature rat race" which I personally despise.
So, Lawrence, when I said:
"However, I for one believe that, while maybe not immediately apparent, there are answers to the "workflow problem" that is being confronted in this thread that don't require taking the solutions from other DAWs."
I didn't mean to say I had the answer. I am saying there is _probably_ an answer in light of the "lets copy sequencer X" solution that seems to be the defacto standard in designing sequencers. If you don't believe that, then, oh well.
Last edited by paxophobe; 10-05-2008 at 10:46 AM.
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10-05-2008, 10:44 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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I think you should read the threads from when Brice first started doing those designs and see if there is something different from the other hosts use of similar designs in there, behavior wise and functionality wise, in his and many others descriptions of how those things should probably work in Reaper.
If you haven't done that (have you?) then how can you say it's the same old tired rehash? What are you basing that opinon on, just the graphic?
If you have already done that, and you understand how Reaper users would like many of those things in his design to work and listened to their many ideas of how those things might or should work in Reaper, and you still think it's a rip-off and tired old rehash ... then... cool.
We just disagree. People do disagree.
It happens.
Last edited by Lawrence; 10-05-2008 at 10:51 AM.
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10-05-2008, 10:51 AM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On an island in the Pacific.......in Canada.
Posts: 704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxophobe
I'd share my ideas if I felt like they were beneficial to REAPER without being "too good of an idea". But I don't have any ideas that fall into that category, so I have nothing to share or contribute.
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Well you're right there, you have nothing to contribute. Brice does. And if it means extending/borrowing other peoples ideas then I'm good with that. And the consensus is the majority of the people here are good with it too.
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10-05-2008, 10:57 AM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottedog
Well you're right there, you have nothing to contribute. Brice does. And if it means extending/borrowing other peoples ideas then I'm good with that. And the consensus is the majority of the people here are good with it too.
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Ethically there's no problem with borrowing. Zero. Especially in business. However, if you wanna get into the ethics of being an artist, it's probably better to demand being original. Still, that's just my own morality, and most people will disagree venomently with that stance. I even disagree with it, partly. It's more of a curse, really. I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't obsessed with demanding people be original.
So, you're right. I have nothing to contribute in regards to the proposed fix for a supposedly inferior workflow, because I don't see these ideas being improvements at all. I can't agree with something that doesn't seem beneficial to me, and if I don't need an alternative solution and am fine with how things are, then why demand I offer a solution when I don't see there's a problem? I can't agree merely for the fact that others find it useful, albeit, I would probably have a lot more friends if I acted that way.
Still, if I personally were to muse over an improved workflow, my value system dictates originality above all else. I would at the very least try and find some positioning system so that it didn't look exactly like you superimposed Cubase/Live/Logic all on top of each other.
Despite this, I would accept imitation if I really felt it would improve things. And who knows, they might work out. But my initial reaction was one of anger because I felt like the denizens of this forum were being hypocritical in promoting a mindset which was akin to the "evil corporations" they've fled to here from.
Nuff said.
Last edited by paxophobe; 10-05-2008 at 11:08 AM.
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10-05-2008, 11:07 AM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: france
Posts: 354
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Sorry to interrupt, but can we please go back to the original topic and share ideas, I closed my last thread a year ago after it drifted away from its original intention.
Constructive criticism is welcomed, paxophobe feels like my mockup is bad or a blatant rip off and wouldn't add anything good to reaper, he should be able to say so. True, I'd rather he shared his views on what would be better ways of going about doing things (as implied in my first post) but so be it. I too have things I feel strongly about.
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10-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On an island in the Pacific.......in Canada.
Posts: 704
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I guess if Reaper has everything you need right now then I envy you. No need for you to upgrade to the 'new and improved' workflow proposed here.
I would say that you are in the minority though.
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10-05-2008, 11:15 AM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sextans Dwarf Spheroidal
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottedog
I guess if Reaper has everything you need right now then I envy you. No need for you to upgrade to the 'new and improved' workflow proposed here.
I would say that you are in the minority though.
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Not entirely what I'm saying. There are more than just two choices here. It's not upgrade to brice's or not upgrade at all. This isn't even any sort of official thread, knock on wood.
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10-05-2008, 11:19 AM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On an island in the Pacific.......in Canada.
Posts: 704
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Brice,
Absolutely right, apologies.
One thing I'd like to be able to do to improve my workflow is to be able to show/hide tracks. Possible to add a tab by your FX browser tab? It would sure clean up the TCP on big sessions.
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10-05-2008, 12:08 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
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Ok, let me chime in too
Brice, I love the whole stuff except the track icons (folder, record, enelope, mute, solo, etc). They just look out of place and make the whole track a bit clunky. The faders too. Something like the faders on Max's theme "Paula" would do the whole mockup a favour.
Other than that, the whole concept is nearly perfect.
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Reaper registered user - proudly, may I add :)
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10-05-2008, 12:19 PM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: france
Posts: 354
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what exactly about "this isn't about cosmetics" or "the theme" don't you guys understand ?
but I'll take your critics
- yeah folder track "icon" looks like ass right now
- dunno what's wrong about the record button
- as a matter of fact, dunno what's wrong about the envelope, mute & solo either.
- faders well ... they could be more contrasty maybe.
maybe I should just use rectangles with colors from now on
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10-05-2008, 12:43 PM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
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well, I got the point perfectly. It's about the workflow inspired by the mockups, right?
If you read my post, I say I like it and it seems nearly perfectly akin with my own ideas on how reaper should evolve, workflow and GUI wise.
What's wrong with track icons and faders? IN MY OPINION, let me stress that , they just look ugly (and clunky) as they are now. What do I mean by this? Simple, if you want to take my critics on this, keep working on them. If you think they're fine as they are and serve their purpose, and I do understand, this is a mockup (I know, I know) let them be...We can always, if this goes forth, customize them.
Did I understand correctly?
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Reaper registered user - proudly, may I add :)
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10-05-2008, 01:00 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 42
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hej,
* about the track i/o window:
never been a fan of text that 'fell' 90° to any possible side ...
so,
(2)
S
E
N
D
S
does the trick imho.
* the little VU meter in the TCP is not needed.
i like[d] the VU meter behind the TRACK name very MUCH!
very nice idea.
also, more space for the TRACK name would be nice [=more space for a VU]...
namaste
j
Last edited by Rah; 10-05-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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