Input quantizing errors (SOLVED)

[Nystagmus]

Feb 1st UPDATE: Problem solved.
The input quantizing is working. I formally tested this and realised that I was using the wrong quantization setting (16ths and 32nds) when it needed to be just 8th notes. Sorry for the mixup.

Hello,

I am using 32-bit Windows Reaper v512.

MIDI input quantizing doesn't seem to work for any resolution finer than 8th notes. This is not enough for me since I compose with 32nd notes and 16th notes.

I just need position quantizing, nothing else. The regular, manual, quantizing seems to work OK, it's just the input quantizing which doesn't work.

This has been broken for a long time now, at least since 4.78 if not from before then.

It seems like Reaper is getting a lot of new features, but please don't neglect the MIDI department. MIDI input is a basic feature. It's a shame to have it not working in such an otherwise sophisticated program.

When I use EnergyXT, it's input quantizing works just fine. So I don't think it's a hardware nor operating system issue. I'm pretty sure it's a design flaw or bug within Reaper.

Please let me know what the status is of this bug / bugfix.

[Dstruct]

Mmh, working fine here (5.12) (just tested with 1/32 and 1/64).

[ELP]

After recording with Input Quant., don´t forget to -first- freeze your input quant...
otherwise you can loose maybe the input quant. after opening any quant. dialogs or with enable quant within the editor.
Simply by the fact, that Input quant. dont work like normally an Input FX would do.

It is at the first moment not fix quant. with/after recording.
So the quant could maybe reset to the real recording position -without freeze-.
Means it reset and use your quant dialog setting
(grid or manual or whatever) within the editor. So maybe that´s your 1/8 reason.

I always use very low quant 1/256 - 1/128 for position and length to eliminate the Jitter/byte per 0.330 ms for the eye and for the editor and input quant works..
No problems.
But first freeze the input quanti after recording before editing.

[Nystagmus]

DStruct, what BPM did you do your test at?

I usually work at 140 BPM with my VSTi's.

ELP, Sorry I didn't understand at all what you said.

[Justin]

Also working fine here (various tempos and 1/16th-1/32nd notes).

Rather than just saying "this is broken", a good thing to do would be to post a .gif showing what you're doing and how it fails (check out LICEcap for making the .gif), and a copy of a minimal sample .RPP so we can see how the project is configured.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

But first freeze the input quanti after recording before editing

Freezing what?

Originally Posted by Nystagmus

DStruct, what BPM did you do your test at?

Tested at 120 BPM.

[ELP]

commit the quantization/freeze quantization

With REAPER, Input quantization works the same way as the normal quantization within the editor.
Means Recordings with Input quantization enable is not permanent after recording.

"Freeze Quantize"
-There may be situations when you want to make the quantized
positions “permanent”. For example, you may want to
quantize notes a second time, having the results based on
the current (input)quantized positions rather than the original recv..positions.
To make this possible, select the notes......
and select “Freeze Quantize” ........."

But as justin, dstruct and I already said I-Q works also with < 1/8 and I always use 1/128 sometimes also 1/256 with manual typing in^^

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

Means Recordings with Input quantization enable is not permanent after recording

Not true.

[ELP]

Input quantize is not permanent

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

Input quantize is not permanent

It is. You can't undo the quantizing which was recorded with input quantize.

[ELP]

there is only no direct undo point for the Input Quantize but believe me,
permanent is it not. Maybe it should.. Like an Input FX would do..

Little pic. example, hope you can see this:
1-3
Without freezing:

1.Recording with Input Quantize as example 1/128 Note On and Off Positions
2.Open in List view Quantize Dialog Quantize not bypass
3.And now bypass the Quantize, look at the positions. The positions are not the same as in 1. The positions are the true recv. positions. Means as without Input Quantize
-------
4-6
Now with freezing the Input quantize with select all Notes and freeze
4. Positions after recording with Input Quantize

Now I select all Notes and freeze the recording with Input Quantize enable

5. Open in List view Quantize Dialog Quantize not bypass
6.And now bypass the Quantize, look at the positions. The positions are the same
as in 4 because the Input Quantize was commit/freeze after recording

Without freezing, the Event can move to the real recv positions instead of
the Input Quantize positions,(you can see this, then as an Undo state" reset Quantize .... )
so Input Quantize is not permanent after recording.


1-3

1-3

1-3


4-6

1-3

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

freezing

How do you "freeze" MIDI in REAPER?


I'm just looking at the position (piano roll) of the recorded notes in the MIDI editor. How do you undo the input quantization?

[ELP]

Select All Notes
Midi Editor Roll or List View

Menu:
EDIT|Quantize > Freeze quantization


Or also possible with Commit.


There is no direct way,...no #Undo point create after recording but

You can Undo Input Quantization recordings by
Go to the Quantization Dialog
Undo bypass and then bypass.. but dont freeze before

like you can see in pic 1-3..
Pic 3 is the recording from Pic 1
with "Undo Input Quantization positions. means the true note event positions
-without input quantization...
Thats why I say- Input quantization, without freeze, is not permanent.

----
Thats also maybe the problem for Nystagmus that he mean
thats no Input Quantization works with lower grid <1/8. If he open the dialog with maybe
1/8 for all Notes after recording with quantization enable or quantize is general enable
within the editor and he bypass quantization then,
the events looks like they are not Input Quantize before.
they moved to the recv positions without Input quant...

For me it is no problem I simply freeze the MIDI Input quantization recording before I do other edits...
Thats why freeze exists, but User has to know it.

[Dstruct]

Ok, I got it. Never used the quantiation dialog after the recording.


I must say I don't like this. I'd prefer permanent recorded quantization printed on the item.

[ELP]

^^

Yes maybe, because this non permanent behavior for an Input Quantize can produce confusion if you don´t know it.

Maybe it is better if it would work like an extern Input FX or an Input FX. But then you cant undo.

But for me this behavior is ok.
if i do not like it, I can Undo&reUndo the Input quantize
and thats without to loose the MIDI recording itself.
For editing I freeze the quantize after recording and good..

If I really want permanent recordings on the fly, I can also use recording the Output instead of the Input

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by ELP

If I really want permanent recordings on the fly, I can also use recording the Output instead of the Input

Just tested it and it seems it's still not printed permanently to the item in this mode. Only gluing the item after the recording "fixes" it.

And you can't use Overdub/Latch etc. modes with this.

Originally Posted by ELP

Yes maybe, because this non permanent behavior for an Input Quantize can produce confusion if you don´t know it.

Maybe it is better if it would work like an extern Input FX or an Input FX. But then you cant undo.

Yeah, a checkbox in the Input quantization dialog to print the notes permanently would be nice I think.

[ELP]

"Yeah, a checkbox in the Input quantization dialog to print the notes permanently would be nice I think."

Yes I agree with you, good idea. Justin possible?


I also think that these behavior know only a few User.
I bet that mostly all think that
Input >Quant FX>recording--- ... is permanent.
But it is not
And that can produce confusions, errors and maybe such postings

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

Yeah, a checkbox in the Input quantization dialog to print the notes permanently would be nice I think.

Don't think that's necessary if you set record mode to Output (MIDI)?


I actually think it's quite cool that input quantize is a non-destructive operation.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Don't think that's necessary if you set record mode to Output (MIDI)?

Just tested it and it seems it's still not printed permanently to the item in this mode. Only gluing the item after the recording "fixes" it.

And you can't use Overdub/Latch etc. modes with this.

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

I actually think it's quite cool that input quantize is a non-destructive operation.

Why not making it optional?

[Nystagmus]

Originally Posted by Justin

Also working fine here (various tempos and 1/16th-1/32nd notes).

Rather than just saying "this is broken", a good thing to do would be to post a .gif showing what you're doing and how it fails (check out LICEcap for making the .gif), and a copy of a minimal sample .RPP so we can see how the project is configured.

I will try to provide more info if I can. And thanks for checking into it.
I'm not exactly sure how to document this since this is a timing/audible issue and not a visual issue.

If you have the resources, please keep testing this on a variety of operating systems with 16th and 32nd notes at 140 BPM or greater. It might only be reproduceable on certain systems.

In the meantime, I will see what I can do to send this to you guys.
Thanks.

I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't there at some Reaper versions I was using last year, but I forget which versions they were. I always try to stay up to date with Reaper so I don't keep the old versions around.

[Nystagmus]

Feb 1st UPDATE: Problem solved.

The input quantizing is working. I formally tested this and realised that I was using the wrong quantization setting (16ths and 32nds) when it needed to be just 8th notes. I looked at the grid settings to figure out which resolution I was using and I had made a mistake.

I still sometimes use 16ths and even 32nds but the majority of my playing is at the 8th note resolution so I had it set too fine when what I needed was course. It's probably better for me to enter in the 16ths and 32nds manually

Sorry for the mixup. The mixup had nothing to do with freezing.

Thanks Justin, for checking on this.