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Old 08-31-2020, 02:22 PM   #1
Fabian
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Default What to do with Reaper outputting huge video files...?

I dragged a 20 minute mp4 file of 24 MB into Reaper, made some cuts, and edits to the audio (eq, compression etc) and then rendered the file back out. The file generated by Reaper is over 400 MB!

The render settings I used were:
Code:
Format: Video (ffmpeg/libav encoder)
Format: QT/MOV/MP4
Size: 1430 x 1410
Framerate: 25.00 fps
Codec: H.264 33%
Audio: mp3 128 kbps
The size and framerate Reaper grabbed from the original video.

The source properties for the original video is
Code:
Video: 1430x1410@25.00fps, Aspect=1.00, Decoding format=I420/YV12
How on earth can a 24 MB file, from which I have cut away pieces, be rendered out close to 20 times the original size?

And more importantly, what can I do about it?
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Old 09-01-2020, 06:31 AM   #2
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I'm still learning my way around video. I know Reaper by default is pretty limited in the output codec choices. You can add more codecs, some of which presumably can write smaller files. I haven't tried. Instead, I've used Handbrake from https://handbrake.fr/ to covert to a more space efficient codec.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canopus View Post
I'm still learning my way around video. I know Reaper by default is pretty limited in the output codec choices. You can add more codecs, some of which presumably can write smaller files. I haven't tried. Instead, I've used Handbrake from https://handbrake.fr/ to covert to a more space efficient codec.
And they have a portable version, great! I'll try it, thanks.

BTW, are you saying that you first let Reaper render a big file, and then you use Handbrake to get a smaller file?

I have ffmpeg installed, BTW, and I thought that was the best, but apparently not.

Thanks again.

EDIT: *ouch* it needs .NET 4.0...
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:14 AM   #4
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We definitely need the possibility to add additional FFMPEG/VLC-options in the Render-to-File-dialog, so we can customize the stuff a little better. Or some ini-file, into which we can put different ffmpeg/vlc-settings, which can be used then for rendering.
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meo-Ada Mespotine View Post
We definitely need the possibility to add additional FFMPEG/VLC-options in the Render-to-File-dialog, so we can customize the stuff a little better. Or some ini-file, into which we can put different ffmpeg/vlc-settings, which can be used then for rendering.
Just so I get this straight... are you saying that with other parameters the ffmpeg render would be smaller?

I cannot even get my head around the fact that I drag in a 24 MB video, and render it out as over 400 MB! What is that huge amount of extra data?

EDIT: I just did another test. I loaded a 13 minute 16.5 MB mp4 file into Reaper, and then rendered it out with the same settings posted in my original post. No edits, just in and out. The result is a baffling 202 MB! This is totally crazy!
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Last edited by Fabian; 09-01-2020 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 09-01-2020, 12:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
Just so I get this straight... are you saying that with other parameters the ffmpeg render would be smaller?
Not sure, as I'm not that familiar with it. But I can imagine, that FFMPEG has some other neat stuff in it, which may cause render-times go through the roof but improve the filesize in the process. And as this has been requested by some with more knowledge about that than me, I imagine, it would be a great idea to add.

Let's hope, there will be another devcycle dedicated to video so stuff like this has a chance and toying around with it is at least possible.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meo-Ada Mespotine View Post
Not sure, as I'm not that familiar with it. But I can imagine, that FFMPEG has some other neat stuff in it, which may cause render-times go through the roof but improve the filesize in the process. And as this has been requested by some with more knowledge about that than me, I imagine, it would be a great idea to add.

Let's hope, there will be another devcycle dedicated to video so stuff like this has a chance and toying around with it is at least possible.
OK, I see. Thanks.

BTW, I took the 202 MB file, which was originally 16.5 MB (video meeting recorded by Zoom), put it into VLC and "converted" it to the same format H.264 + mp3. VLC output a 58 MB file, which is still large but much better than ffmpeg. And the conversion took roughly half the time compared to the render in Reaper.

What magic lies behind Zoom being able to compress the video so much is beyond me. If anyone knows, please enlighten us.
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
BTW, are you saying that you first let Reaper render a big file, and then you use Handbrake to get a smaller file?
Yes, that's what I've done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
I have ffmpeg installed, BTW, and I thought that was the best, but apparently not.
I'm not sure how to define "best." I know it's what's freely available and compatible. It produces a good quality video. But there's a lot of variable factors and we don't get a lot of detailed control over many of them here.

As for why the file is so big, I think that's related to compression. We've got 24 or so images for each second of video. That's 7200 individual pictures for 5 minutes of video. With little or no compression, all those individual pictures add up fast.

What I think is happening is Reaper is exporting uncompressed video, and Handbrake is re-encoding it with compression. I tried out a couple presets in Handbrake and used one I was happy with. I'm sure you could do the same by resaving it with programs like Adobe Premiere or Davinci Resolve, if you know what parameters to pick.
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
What magic lies behind Zoom being able to compress the video so much is beyond me. If anyone knows, please enlighten us.
I'd assume their compression is pretty lossy. They're throwing away detail that doesn't normally matter for meetings.
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Old 09-01-2020, 07:46 PM   #10
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your original files are way smaller than normal. Out of a camera its over 2GB for 1080p for 13 minutes. I have some 6GB source files for my videos.
File sizes seem pretty good to me on my rendered videos. My longest ones are about 3GB.
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Old 09-02-2020, 11:48 AM   #11
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Thanks people, for all your input.

I am using Handbrake now to compress the big files into smaller ones, and it seems to work great.

Thinking about this, and with your input, I think I understand now what goes on... Zoom compresses the video heavily to generate extremely small files. Reaper uncompresses the file when loading it, and then ffmpeg compresses the video "assuming" that it is uncompressed. Of course, ffmpeg knows nothing about the compression of the file before loading it into Reaper. This is the same thing as if I had loaded a 128 kbps mp3, edited it and exported as 320 kbps mp3.

I'd say my thinking erred in that I somehow expected that Reaper and ffmpeg should "understand" that I want the file compressed just as much when output as it was when it was input.

Thanks again.
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