Old 04-11-2021, 12:44 AM   #1
Mind Riot
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Default Bit of a head scratcher...

So I've got two guitar tracks playing the exact same part, hard panned left and right.

I've got an instance of a guitar amp sim on each one, with identical settings, literally using the same preset I've got set up.

I've got the parts in a folder bussed to a parent track that has no plugins on it, nothing.

This is all going to the master track which, for purposes of this scenario, I've turned off all plugs that were on it.

So your typical doubled up guitar part, with nothing affecting it at any point down the line.

So why is the left track 6 db quieter than the right one?

I check the DIs, double and triple check the amp sims and make sure they're using the same preset and reload it to make sure no parameter got changed and forgotten about, check everything down the line and there's nothing getting in the way.

Both the folder track and the master track show a consistent 6 db difference in loudness on their meters between the two signals with the right side always being louder.


I'm going to bed here, but I do so scratching my noggin wondering what is going on up in this hizzle?
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Old 04-11-2021, 01:54 AM   #2
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This may be due to the Pan Law you have on one or both gtr tracks.
I'm no expert on this so these videos may help.

http://www.kennymania.com/videos/rea...law-in-reaper/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4td9dTnhA
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:10 AM   #3
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Wouldn't be a pan law thing if the tracks are equally panned. If the originals are definitely equal in db I would check that both guitar tracks are hard panned all the way and that the track output settings have the pan slider 100%.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:55 PM   #4
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Yep, should have put that in the OP, pan laws are the same on both tracks, both hard panned 100% left and right.

I was using a MS plug to increase the perceived width of the panning of the guitars but I quit using it. Although it's turned off it is still in the FX chain for the guitar bus, maybe I should remove it entirely and restart the project, could be acting up a smidge.
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Old 04-14-2021, 06:24 PM   #5
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But do the waveforms of the items show different levels/sizes?
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:40 PM   #6
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As an experiment try swapping the items over, ie placing item 1 on track 2 and item 2 on track 1. Leave track 1 panned left and track 2 panned right.

Does the right side still sound louder or is the left now louder? I am thinking this might help you identify where the problem lies.

If the left now sounds louder it suggests that the waveform actually is louder, unless it's something in the item settings of one of the tracks that is making it louder or quieter than the other one.

If the right still sounds louder it looks like it might be be something to do with your REAPER track settings - e.g. (perhaps) a hidden envelope somewhere, or something in its routing window?
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Last edited by nicholas; 04-14-2021 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Further explanation
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Old 04-14-2021, 11:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
But do the waveforms of the items show different levels/sizes?
Waveforms match up as close as one could expect, they're both guitar DI tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
As an experiment try swapping the items over, ie placing item 1 on track 2 and item 2 on track 1. Leave track 1 panned left and track 2 panned right.

Does the right side still sound louder or is the left now louder? I am thinking this might help you identify where the problem lies.

If the left now sounds louder it suggests that the waveform actually is louder, unless it's something in the item settings of one of the tracks that is making it louder or quieter than the other one.

If the right still sounds louder it looks like it might be be something to do with your REAPER track settings - e.g. (perhaps) a hidden envelope somewhere, or something in its routing window?

I switched left for right using a trim plug and the volume difference follows, but I didn't reassign the actual waveforms to each others' tracks.

So I come back to work on the project today and now they match up.

This project has been giving me trouble as of late; CPU spikes, locking up, the occasional crash, crackling and popping all over. I'm going to start plugin combing to see if I can find something that frees things up when I remove it.

EDIT: There's a Pultec EQ from a now defunct company called Analog Obsession that used to be a paid plug, but when they went belly up they got some hosting and put their plugs up for free. Cool thing to do. I was using several instances of it to do this Scheps technique that makes vocals cut through better (Pultec into an LA2A only compressing from 1k up into another Pultec).

A couple tracks with that plug started crackling so I pulled all instances of it out and the project started behaving better as a whole. Doesn't explain the original problem, but oh well. And thankfully I have another Pultec type plug.

Thanks for your insights, fellows.
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Old 04-15-2021, 12:23 AM   #8
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I'm pleased to hear it seems to have sorted itself ... pity we never discovered what exactly was the problem though. Oh well, all's well that ends well ...
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
... pity we never discovered what exactly was the problem though.
Whatever it was, I'm sure it was my fault from doing something stupid. So, in a way...
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Riot View Post
EDIT: There's a Pultec EQ from a now defunct company called Analog Obsession that used to be a paid plug, but when they went belly up they got some hosting and put their plugs up for free. Cool thing to do.
Analog Obsession is still well alive. The constantly updated plugins are indeed available for free, but they are on Patreon and support is recommended to allow further development. Similar concept as Chris from Airwindows has.
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