Old 08-06-2017, 08:58 PM   #1
dafish
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Default latency issues

Hi everyone. I have been tracking quite successfully through an Apogee PSx100 into a macg5 with El Cap and the core audio through lightpipe without any issues at all. Then, all of a sudden after months of trouble free recording and monitoring I have terrible latency. I tried various methods to solve it with no luck so I transferred my session to my macbook pro and used an Apogee Duet that I have for traveling. No issues at all. Until two days into tracking. So far have only got stereo drums, few guitars, few vocals and keys, 15 tracks so no workload to cause any issues that I can think of. I have a couple basic verb plugs and one delay. I walked away after recording some acoustic guitars and came back to start some vocals, same chain as guitar, so no different there. This is really puzzling and immediately stops the session as I can't do anything with that much time delay. Thanks in advance
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:31 AM   #2
serr
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What value are you trying to set your system latency to? Are you using the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page controls? If using the Reaper controls, what happens if you select something again (just to get the apply button to un-gray) and click apply? Does the latency snap back or is it unresponsive at that point?
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:38 PM   #3
dafish
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I will check later on the G5. What is puzzling is after I walked away in dismay I went for a walk and came back a couple hours later and fired up the macbook and Duet again, and it was working fine again and was able to continue on. I have been using the Reaper preference device controls and have toggled a few different buffers but it changed nothing. SO this does lead me to believe the issue is in Reaper. I will do more testing later and report back. Thanks for your reply
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:41 PM   #4
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Well the mystery continues. After having my macbook freak out for a moment and create the same issues, a reboot fixed it. Looking along the same logic I rebooted the G5 again ( I had done several reboots to try and sort it) now everything is back to normal.
The one thing I can concur most definitely is that the Apogee PSx100 stereo ADDA sounds vastly superior to the Duet, which is more brittle and not as detailed. I was actually pretty shocked by the difference.
So, at this point I don't know what caused this latency issue so if it happens again I don't don't how to fix it. If it does and I figure out why I will post back to add to the catalogue of great info here.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:08 AM   #5
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafish View Post
Well the mystery continues. After having my macbook freak out for a moment and create the same issues, a reboot fixed it. Looking along the same logic I rebooted the G5 again ( I had done several reboots to try and sort it) now everything is back to normal.
The one thing I can concur most definitely is that the Apogee PSx100 stereo ADDA sounds vastly superior to the Duet, which is more brittle and not as detailed. I was actually pretty shocked by the difference.
So, at this point I don't know what caused this latency issue so if it happens again I don't don't how to fix it. If it does and I figure out why I will post back to add to the catalogue of great info here.
It sounds like something else is making a request to core audio and thus changing the parameters. Check up on any/all other audio using apps (media players, internet browsers, etc). This couldn't be Reaper's doing - if it was a crash, the system wouldn't magically come back. But the scenario is exactly what would happen if a different audio app is making a request to core audio wanting different parameters.

As an aside, that critique of the Duet is damning! They advertise it as using the same analog stages as their bigger units. Ouch!

BTW, what value are you trying to set the block size to? You mentioned using the Reaper control panel but also mentioned the controls being unresponsive. Does that mean unresponsive after the unexpected latency increase? But responsive otherwise? You are aware of the little square checkboxes next to those controls on the preference page that enable/disable these controls?
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:53 PM   #6
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Hey Serr,
I try not to read into marketing hype too much, but I couldn't imagine that a small set of converters with preamps and only costing around 500 dollars give or take be as good as a single stereo converter unit that has a whole lot of hardware to process the conversions as it's only job. However, it was an interesting awaking using them side by side to compare. The Duet does sound fine, but not fabulous.
I have checked the parameters in both units and they match. I keep the G5 off the internet and don't use it for anything else except music processing. Perhaps it was competing with the MPC Element in some way, thought I can't recall having both applications open at the same time. I generally will work with only one at a time, save the files, close the app, then load up Reaper and bring the files in and take it from there.
I had tried various manual output and input offset settings and it did not help. Everything else matches. I would say that you are correct that it has nothing to do with Reaper. The only thing different between the two setups is that I run a Faderport to the G5. With the exception of not being able to get the pan knob to work on it, all other functions work fine.
Thanks for your help, at least if it happens again I have an idea where to look to rectify the problem. Cheers
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:51 AM   #7
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Just curious-- Apple says that El Capitan needs an Intel processor; the G5 is PPC. How are getting this to run?

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Old 08-10-2017, 03:28 PM   #8
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this is a 2009 model (late) and I have taken it as far as it can go with El Cap 10.11.6
This version has 2.66 quad core Intel Xeon.
This is all i know about it.
It actually runs really well but does have a few issues I am struggling with, mainly it will not shut down properly nor will it go into sleep mode. I have to hold down the off button for a few secs to shut it all down. I was finding that if I walked away from a session and it went into screen saver mode I would lose clocking function and the computer would go into safe mode and require a reboot. So I took the screen savers off. My system is flawed, but it is working well enough for now that I can keep going.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:21 AM   #9
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafish View Post
this is a 2009 model (late) and I have taken it as far as it can go with El Cap 10.11.6
This version has 2.66 quad core Intel Xeon.
This is all i know about it.
It actually runs really well but does have a few issues I am struggling with, mainly it will not shut down properly nor will it go into sleep mode. I have to hold down the off button for a few secs to shut it all down. I was finding that if I walked away from a session and it went into screen saver mode I would lose clocking function and the computer would go into safe mode and require a reboot. So I took the screen savers off. My system is flawed, but it is working well enough for now that I can keep going.
You mentioned using a PowerMac G5 in your first post. Very different from a 2009 Mac Pro! Hence the confusion.

It sounds like something is going wrong with your OSX install or there is a hardware issue with something hanging from what you said.

This is not something to just accept as "well enough" either. Unacceptable in OSX land. I would look into that.

Do you clone your system drive 1:1 for backups? Either with Disk Utility or a 3rd party app like Carbon Copy Cloner? That would let you backup your current system so you could simply build a new one. Rule out that variable.

It could be hardware related too. Refusing a shut down command sounds like it's waiting for something. Or a hard drive starting to fail. Impossible to guess from a general comment but not impossible to track down. Start going through stuff from hard drives to any connected USB or firewire devices.

Last edited by serr; 08-11-2017 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:36 PM   #10
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Thanks for more clarity. I am still reasonably new to Mac though I have my Macbook Pro since 2012 (and that has been flawless and has traveled the world several times doing all duties of an ultimate machine. It actually gets along really well with the Duet.) I am also not exactly computer savvy and I get bogged down with trying to troubleshoot problems.
I have several drives on the 2009 Macpro and I have used a fresh new drive as my startup drive. I tried to create a new user on the other drive but only one drive has the software upgrade of El Cap that I need to run the Faderport/MPC. I also have an external drive I backup all my sessions on. Having to start from scratch again with importing the licenses and getting everything to communicate again (like the Faderport, that was fun ) if what keeps holding me back especially when I am in the middle of a very creative period and want to get through these ideas and have frameworks to build on.
So what would be the logical steps to work through this? It's frustrating for me because it takes me right out creative mode. I know many people are really good at switching brain function from creative to analytical but I am not one of those dudes.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:06 AM   #11
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafish View Post
Thanks for more clarity. I am still reasonably new to Mac though I have my Macbook Pro since 2012 (and that has been flawless and has traveled the world several times doing all duties of an ultimate machine. It actually gets along really well with the Duet.) I am also not exactly computer savvy and I get bogged down with trying to troubleshoot problems.
I have several drives on the 2009 Macpro and I have used a fresh new drive as my startup drive. I tried to create a new user on the other drive but only one drive has the software upgrade of El Cap that I need to run the Faderport/MPC. I also have an external drive I backup all my sessions on. Having to start from scratch again with importing the licenses and getting everything to communicate again (like the Faderport, that was fun ) if what keeps holding me back especially when I am in the middle of a very creative period and want to get through these ideas and have frameworks to build on.
So what would be the logical steps to work through this? It's frustrating for me because it takes me right out creative mode. I know many people are really good at switching brain function from creative to analytical but I am not one of those dudes.
The best thing you can do for yourself is to start cloning your system install(s). Treat it like your resume and make copies in other words. Disk Utility is free of course and in your Applications/Utilities folder already. It's a little cryptic to use. I like Carbon Copy Cloner (only $40) for ease of use and then scheduling features and so forth.

You clone your system disk 1:1 to another drive volume. You boot your machine from the clone drive and it's exactly the same as the original in every way. All installs. All settings.

You can use this as a "magic reset button" when you accidentally download something from badplace.bad and you discover it's Not_what_you_thought.app. Boot from your clone. Now clone back over the original. Only the changed files are modified so it even only takes a minute.


Now you can make backups and mess with your system worry free. You can always boot from another drive and get back to work.


Now onto hardware:

First, check the cables for external accessories. (USB/firewire/thunderbolt) Cables can get damaged.
Next, unplug any external drives/devices and reboot. Problem go away? Start plugging things back in one at a time.

I'll stop here for now.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:36 PM   #12
dafish
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Thanks Serr, appreciate it. Will get on to it and report back once I have finished.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:06 PM   #13
dafish
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Well, so far the MPC has been fine with my setup, and it appears that it's the Faderport that is causing the issues. It has been running fine without it and goes into sleep mode without any issues, nor any latency. I only every use the FP for fader moves during mix down, so I might keep it out of the loop until I can sort our why it's doing this. I do seem to recall it being a bit of a hassle installing it in the first place.
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